eating what you want as long as its under your calories?

Dairy, is REALLY bad for you. Dairy is extremely high in fats and sugars, AND the "calcium" and "vitamin D" that are found in dairy are ADDED in there. Dairy is not a natural source of Vitamin D or Calcium.

Umm really? Then how the ****ens do mammals develop and grow when the only thing they ingest is dairy? OK so the sun helps us to make vitamin D but all the building blocks need to come from somewhere. Milk contains all the protein, carbs, fat, calcium and other micronutrients necessary to grow and is therefore a complete food. Same goes for eggs.

Lol that the great novelist Charles ****ens has been auto-sensored.

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Life without cheese isn't a life worth living in my book!
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This

Dairy is Awesome, especially cheese. I make sure I get my protein and fiber and stay under 50% carbs then I can eat whatever I feel like to get to my net.

Dairy, is REALLY bad for you. Dairy is extremely high in fats and sugars, AND the "calcium" and "vitamin D" that are found in dairy are ADDED in there. Dairy is not a natural source of Vitamin D or Calcium.

Umm really? Then how the ****ens do mammals develop and grow when the only thing they ingest is dairy? OK so the sun helps us to make vitamin D but all the building blocks need to come from somewhere. Milk contains all the protein, carbs, fat, calcium and other micronutrients necessary to grow and is therefore a complete food. Same goes for eggs.

You would be correct. Humans need a diverse food palate to live, whereas most animals can live off 1 or 2 things just fine. There is one food source we can consume for every meal for the rest of our lives and be fine. The answer is breast milk.

Hmmm I'm mixed about it...

Yes, you will get results that way (I've always had results doing that). But because you're not changing your eating habits overall, it doesn't work in the long run.

More than that... and I'm going to harp a little here and possibly step on some toes, but I'm just saying... Dairy, is REALLY bad for you. Dairy is extremely high in fats and sugars, AND the "calcium" and "vitamin D" that are found in dairy are ADDED in there. Dairy is not a natural source of Vitamin D or Calcium.

If you want to see really awesome improvements, drop the dairy. Your weight will decrease, and your digestion and immune system will improve.

I recommend giving it a try.

If you have to have ice cream or milk shakes or smoothies, try homemaking it and substituting milk for almond milk. much healthier and homemade tastes soooo much better!!!

lolz. FF milk has no fat and there is nothing wrong with fats in dairy anyway. There is protein and a bunch of nutrients in milk. The carbs are not that high and there is nothing wrong with them as long as they fit into your macros.

Almond milk has no protein so no, it is not better, at least for me.

I have about 4 cups of milk, a serving of ice cream , cheese and/or yogurt ever single day - it has not done me or my weight loss any harm

According to Dr. Willett, who has done many studies and reviewed the research on this topic, there are many reasons to pass up milk and other dairy products, including:

1. Milk doesn't reduce fractures. Contrary to popular belief, eating dairy products has never been shown to reduce fracture risk. In fact, according to the Nurses' Health Study dairy may increase risk of fractures by 50 percent!

2. Less dairy, better bones. Countries with lowest rates of dairy and calcium consumption (like those in Africa and Asia) have the lowest rates of osteoporosis.

3. Calcium isn't as bone-protective as we thought. Studies of calcium supplementation have shown no benefit in reducing fracture risk. Vitamin D appears to be much more important than calcium in preventing fractures.

4. Calcium may raise cancer risk. Research shows that higher intakes of both calcium and dairy products may increase a man's risk of prostate cancer by 30 to 50 percent. Plus, dairy consumption increases the body's level of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) -- a known cancer promoter.

5. Calcium has benefits that dairy doesn't. Calcium supplements, but not dairy products, may reduce the risk of colon cancer.(iv)

6. Not everyone can stomach dairy.(v) About 75 percent of the world's population is genetically unable to properly digest milk and other dairy products -- a problem called lactose intolerance.


We, as humans, are the only species that drink another animals milk. doesnt that seem weird to you? the only time you need milk is when you are an infant, and the only milk you need is breast milk.

Hmmm I'm mixed about it...

Yes, you will get results that way (I've always had results doing that). But because you're not changing your eating habits overall, it doesn't work in the long run.

More than that... and I'm going to harp a little here and possibly step on some toes, but I'm just saying... Dairy, is REALLY bad for you. Dairy is extremely high in fats and sugars, AND the "calcium" and "vitamin D" that are found in dairy are ADDED in there. Dairy is not a natural source of Vitamin D or Calcium.

If you want to see really awesome improvements, drop the dairy. Your weight will decrease, and your digestion and immune system will improve.

I recommend giving it a try.

If you have to have ice cream or milk shakes or smoothies, try homemaking it and substituting milk for almond milk. much healthier and homemade tastes soooo much better!!!

lolz. FF milk has no fat and there is nothing wrong with fats in dairy anyway. There is protein and a bunch of nutrients in milk. The carbs are not that high and there is nothing wrong with them as long as they fit into your macros.

Almond milk has no protein so no, it is not better, at least for me.

I have about 4 cups of milk, a serving of ice cream , cheese and/or yogurt ever single day - it has not done me or my weight loss any harm

According to Dr. Willett, who has done many studies and reviewed the research on this topic, there are many reasons to pass up milk and other dairy products, including:

1. Milk doesn't reduce fractures. Contrary to popular belief, eating dairy products has never been shown to reduce fracture risk. In fact, according to the Nurses' Health Study dairy may increase risk of fractures by 50 percent!

Please provide source

2. Less dairy, better bones. Countries with lowest rates of dairy and calcium consumption (like those in Africa and Asia) have the lowest rates of osteoporosis.

Causation =/= correlation.

3. Calcium isn't as bone-protective as we thought. Studies of calcium supplementation have shown no benefit in reducing fracture risk. Vitamin D appears to be much more important than calcium in preventing fractures.

What does that have to do with milk being 'bad'?

4. Calcium may raise cancer risk. Research shows that higher intakes of both calcium and dairy products may increase a man's risk of prostate cancer by 30 to 50 percent. Plus, dairy consumption increases the body's level of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) -- a known cancer promoter.

Source please

5. Calcium has benefits that dairy doesn't. Calcium supplements, but not dairy products, may reduce the risk of colon cancer.(iv)

Source please

6. Not everyone can stomach dairy.(v) About 75 percent of the world's population is genetically unable to properly digest milk and other dairy products -- a problem called lactose intolerance.

About 2% of those of Northern European have lactose intolerance and about 16% (if I recall off the top of my head) so - so it's not an issue for most Europeans and Americans. Why would they not drink it?

We, as humans, are the only species that drink another animals milk. doesnt that seem weird to you? the only time you need milk is when you are an infant, and the only milk you need is breast milk.

Not true and irrelevant. The fact is, we can.

REFRENCES

(i) Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year prospective study. Am J Public Health. 1997 Jun;87(6):992-7.

(ii) Feskanich D, Willett WC, Colditz GA. Calcium, vitamin D, milk consumption, and hip fractures: a prospective study among postmenopausal women. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Feb;77(2):504-11.

(iii) Tseng M, Breslow RA, Graubard BI, Ziegler RG. Dairy, calcium, and vitamin D intakes and prostate cancer risk in the National Health and Nutrition Examination Epidemiologic Follow-up Study cohort. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 May;81(5):1147-54.

(iv) Huncharek M, Muscat J, Kupelnick B. Colorectal cancer risk and dietary intake of calcium, vitamin D, and dairy products: a meta-analysis of 26,335 cases from 60 observational studies. Nutr Cancer. 2009;61(1):47-69.

(v) Brannon PM, Carpenter TO, Fernandez JR, Gilsanz V, Gould JB, Hall KE, Hui SL, Lupton JR, Mennella J, Miller NJ, Osganian SK, Sellmeyer DE, Suchy FJ, Wolf MA. NIH Consensus Development Conference Statement: Lactose Intolerance and Health. NIH Consens State Sci Statements. 2010 Feb 24;27(2).

(vi) Bartley J, McGlashan SR. Does milk increase mucus production? Med Hypotheses. 2010 Apr;74(4):732-4.

(vii) Luopajärvi K, Savilahti E, Virtanen SM, Ilonen J, Knip M, Akerblom HK, Vaarala O. Enhanced levels of cow's milk antibodies in infancy in children who develop type 1 diabetes later in childhood. Pediatr Diabetes. 2008 Oct;9(5):434-41.

(viii) El-Hodhod MA, Younis NT, Zaitoun YA, Daoud SD. Cow's milk allergy related pediatric constipation: Appropriate time of milk tolerance. Pediatr Allergy Immunol. 2009 Jun 25.

How did this turn into a "milk is evil" thread?

because someone mentioned that milk was bad for you and people piped in without doing research first. just because milk has been considered good for you in the past doesnt mean that it is. time goes on, studies become more advanced, and we find out differently.

Hmmm I'm mixed about it...

Yes, you will get results that way (I've always had results doing that). But because you're not changing your eating habits overall, it doesn't work in the long run.

More than that... and I'm going to harp a little here and possibly step on some toes, but I'm just saying... Dairy, is REALLY bad for you. Dairy is extremely high in fats and sugars, AND the "calcium" and "vitamin D" that are found in dairy are ADDED in there. Dairy is not a natural source of Vitamin D or Calcium.

If you want to see really awesome improvements, drop the dairy. Your weight will decrease, and your digestion and immune system will improve.

I recommend giving it a try.

If you have to have ice cream or milk shakes or smoothies, try homemaking it and substituting milk for almond milk. much healthier and homemade tastes soooo much better!!!

lolz. FF milk has no fat and there is nothing wrong with fats in dairy anyway. There is protein and a bunch of nutrients in milk. The carbs are not that high and there is nothing wrong with them as long as they fit into your macros.

Almond milk has no protein so no, it is not better, at least for me.

I have about 4 cups of milk, a serving of ice cream , cheese and/or yogurt ever single day - it has not done me or my weight loss any harm

According to Dr. Willett, who has done many studies and reviewed the research on this topic, there are many reasons to pass up milk and other dairy products, including:

1. Milk doesn't reduce fractures. Contrary to popular belief, eating dairy products has never been shown to reduce fracture risk. In fact, according to the Nurses' Health Study dairy may increase risk of fractures by 50 percent!

Please provide source

2. Less dairy, better bones. Countries with lowest rates of dairy and calcium consumption (like those in Africa and Asia) have the lowest rates of osteoporosis.

Causation =/= correlation.

3. Calcium isn't as bone-protective as we thought. Studies of calcium supplementation have shown no benefit in reducing fracture risk. Vitamin D appears to be much more important than calcium in preventing fractures.

What does that have to do with milk being 'bad'?

4. Calcium may raise cancer risk. Research shows that higher intakes of both calcium and dairy products may increase a man's risk of prostate cancer by 30 to 50 percent. Plus, dairy consumption increases the body's level of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) -- a known cancer promoter.

Source please

5. Calcium has benefits that dairy doesn't. Calcium supplements, but not dairy products, may reduce the risk of colon cancer.(iv)

Source please

6. Not everyone can stomach dairy.(v) About 75 percent of the world's population is genetically unable to properly digest milk and other dairy products -- a problem called lactose intolerance.

About 2% of those of Northern European have lactose intolerance and about 16% (if I recall off the top of my head) so - so it's not an issue for most Europeans and Americans. Why would they not drink it?

We, as humans, are the only species that drink another animals milk. doesnt that seem weird to you? the only time you need milk is when you are an infant, and the only milk you need is breast milk.

Not true and irrelevant. The fact is, we can.

REFRENCES

(i) Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year prospective study. Am J Public Health. 1997 Jun;87(6):992-7.

(ii) Feskanich D, Willett WC, Colditz GA. Calcium, vitamin D, milk consumption, and hip fractures: a prospective study among postmenopausal women. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Feb;77(2):504-11.

(iii) Tseng M, Breslow RA, Graubard BI, Ziegler RG. Dairy, calcium, and vitamin D intakes and prostate cancer risk in the National Health and Nutrition Examination Epidemiologic Follow-up Study cohort. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 May;81(5):1147-54.

(iv) Huncharek M, Muscat J, Kupelnick B. Colorectal cancer risk and dietary intake of calcium, vitamin D, and dairy products: a meta-analysis of 26,335 cases from 60 observational studies. Nutr Cancer. 2009;61(1):47-69.

(v) Brannon PM, Carpenter TO, Fernandez JR, Gilsanz V, Gould JB, Hall KE, Hui SL, Lupton JR, Mennella J, Miller NJ, Osganian SK, Sellmeyer DE, Suchy FJ, Wolf MA. NIH Consensus Development Conference Statement: Lactose Intolerance and Health. NIH Consens State Sci Statements. 2010 Feb 24;27(2).

(vi) Bartley J, McGlashan SR. Does milk increase mucus production? Med Hypotheses. 2010 Apr;74(4):732-4.

(vii) Luopajärvi K, Savilahti E, Virtanen SM, Ilonen J, Knip M, Akerblom HK, Vaarala O. Enhanced levels of cow's milk antibodies in infancy in children who develop type 1 diabetes later in childhood. Pediatr Diabetes. 2008 Oct;9(5):434-41.

(viii) El-Hodhod MA, Younis NT, Zaitoun YA, Daoud SD. Cow's milk allergy related pediatric constipation: Appropriate time of milk tolerance. Pediatr Allergy Immunol. 2009 Jun 25.

With the conclusions and my comments:

REFRENCES

(i) Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA. Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year prospective study. Am J Public Health. 1997 Jun;87(6):992-7.

"These data do not support the hypothesis that higher consumption of milk or other food sources of calcium by adult women protects against hip or forearm fractures."

(ii) Feskanich D, Willett WC, Colditz GA. Calcium, vitamin D, milk consumption, and hip fractures: a prospective study among postmenopausal women. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Feb;77(2):504-11.

"An adequate vitamin D intake is associated with a lower risk of osteoporotic hip fractures in postmenopausal women. Neither milk nor a high-calcium diet appears to reduce risk. Because women commonly consume less than the recommended intake of vitamin D, supplement use or dark fish consumption may be prudent."

(iii) Tseng M, Breslow RA, Graubard BI, Ziegler RG. Dairy, calcium, and vitamin D intakes and prostate cancer risk in the National Health and Nutrition Examination Epidemiologic Follow-up Study cohort. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 May;81(5):1147-54.

"Dairy consumption may increase prostate cancer risk through a calcium-related pathway. Calcium and low-fat milk have been promoted to reduce risk of osteoporosis and colon cancer. Therefore, the mechanisms by which dairy and calcium might increase prostate cancer risk should be clarified and confirmed."

This one may be something to consider (well, not for me as I do not have a prostate) - will look into this one further.

(iv) Huncharek M, Muscat J, Kupelnick B. Colorectal cancer risk and dietary intake of calcium, vitamin D, and dairy products: a meta-analysis of 26,335 cases from 60 observational studies. Nutr Cancer. 2009;61(1):47-69.

"Milk intake was unrelated to rectal cancer risk. High calcium intake had a greater protective effect against tumors of the distal colon and rectal cancer vs. proximal colon. The risk reduction associated with calcium was similar for dietary and supplemental sources. Vitamin D was associated with a nonsignificant 6% reduction in CRC risk. Higher consumption of milk/dairy products reduces the risk of colon cancer, and high calcium intake reduces the risk of CRC. Low vitamin D intake in the study populations may limit the ability to detect a protective effect if one exists."

(v) Brannon PM, Carpenter TO, Fernandez JR, Gilsanz V, Gould JB, Hall KE, Hui SL, Lupton JR, Mennella J, Miller NJ, Osganian SK, Sellmeyer DE, Suchy FJ, Wolf MA. NIH Consensus Development Conference Statement: Lactose Intolerance and Health. NIH Consens State Sci Statements. 2010 Feb 24;27(2).

This is a conference discussion - no stats are given


(vi) Bartley J, McGlashan SR. Does milk increase mucus production? Med Hypotheses. 2010 Apr;74(4):732-4.

Not sure what point this one relates to

(vii) Luopajärvi K, Savilahti E, Virtanen SM, Ilonen J, Knip M, Akerblom HK, Vaarala O. Enhanced levels of cow's milk antibodies in infancy in children who develop type 1 diabetes later in childhood. Pediatr Diabetes. 2008 Oct;9(5):434-41.

Not sure what point this one relates to and it is in relation to children - we are all adults on this site

(viii) El-Hodhod MA, Younis NT, Zaitoun YA, Daoud SD. Cow's milk allergy related pediatric constipation: Appropriate time of milk tolerance. Pediatr Allergy Immunol. 2009 Jun 25.

Not sure what point this one relates to either and again it is in relation to children - we are all adults on this site

I am still not seeing the source for the increased fracture risk claim - in fact one study you cited shows it to decrease the risk of osteoporosis . Also, I am seeing that dairy does reduce the risk of colon cancer - "Higher consumption of milk/dairy products reduces the risk of colon cancer'.

So, in summary, I am not seeing anything as 'bad' as long as you are not a lactose intolerance adult other than possibly an increased risk of prostate cancer (but I need to look at the actual study more as it was only indicative of a possible risk).


Edited to fix missed conclusion on a study

thanks for all the great replies! If I go over my fat, and sugar daily (not by a lot thought) over will I still lose? can you guys look at my diary and see if what I'm eating will help me lose weight or not? Thank you soo much this is all very helpful.

Hi sweetie..

I have been in and had a read of your diary (and ignored the dairy debate LOL).

Are you Indian by any chance? I see a lot of roti and curries (yum):laugh:
I can see that (apart from the days you mentioned) you do try to eat your calories although you did have a couple of days under 1200 (naughty naughty :bigsmile: )

You really can eat your normal diet and still lose weight. One thing I would look at though is trying to add a little more vegetables than just what goes into your curries or roti. Vegetables may help you meet your nutritional needs a little better. Maybe do a raita with your curry but load it with cucumber..or a corn, peas and bean side dish. Or some chopped tomatoes, snow peas, green onions on the side... It may help you to cut down the snacking on brownies (:laugh: ok maybe a little bit) but your skin and hair will love you lots if you bring some more fruit and veg in.

Good luck with it all. x

i generally keep it pretty healthy, but as long as your not eating only ice cream all day, i think you'll do just fine. its worked for me

As long as you have a calorie deficit, you will lose weight... Even if that deficit comes from totally non-nutritious sources. This does not mean that you will be healthy by doing so.. It merely means you will lose weight. That being said, a healthy weight loss comes from healthy eating. As long as your macros are in check, there is no problem with having a few snacks along the way. Ice Cream is not evil. An "ice crem" diet is problematic if it is all you eat. So is Cabbage Soup diet.. (and substantially less tasty)... In short, weight loss is not dependent upon healthy eating but healthy eating is critical for a fit and healthy lifestyly. Best wishes on your journey.. And enjoy a small bowl of ice cream on occasion, it makes life worth living and the journey a bit more tolerable. Best wishes on your journey.