Frustratingly slow weight loss

2

Replies

  • nguk123
    nguk123 Posts: 223
    Amanda - Apparently the TDEE and BMR equations are not all they are cracked up to be, and we are not all clockwork mechanisms, wouldn't you say?
    doug
    This is interesting to me.
    Given that you are 56 year old male that currently weighs 100kg, according to the BMR calculator I use, you would be 123 cm tall, or about 4 foot. Is this close?

    http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html
  • a_certain_shade_of_green
    a_certain_shade_of_green Posts: 134 Member
    i'm sure there is a valuable lesson in here somewhere, but after reading some of the OPs comments i just want to punch myself in face in frustration
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    If you are worried about the calorie intake, I also suggest you read this thread that has numerous people who met their goals and are maintaining. Some for years and they also provide their calorie intake and how often they work out.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/816542-let-s-hear-it-for-maintainenance

    And if you are looking for foods to help with upping your calorie intake, I suggest checking this out:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/410771-i-can-t-reach-my-calorie-goal-it-s-too-much-food



    For the whole eating under a 1000 calories, look...you are going to do what you want but check out the link below at some of the stories of people who thought it was okay (especially because they weren't "feeling" hungry a lot of times) but ended up regretting it. These links are just information to give you options. I'm not preaching or trying to tell you or anyone what is the "right way"...just throwing some info your way is all.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/521480-1000-calories-or-less-a-day
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
    i'm sure there is a valuable lesson in here somewhere, but after reading some of the OPs comments i just want to punch myself in face in frustration

    Maybe he's just having a laugh with us....
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    Taso - Yes, I'm trying to lose fat. And I'm trying to lose at 1 - 2 lb a week. And that's what's been happening for the past 7 months until this month where it suddenly became more up-and-down.

    Joylia - I'll check out the links. Thanks. I do want to clarify something: I am not and have never been aiming for 1,000 calories or less. I have always been aiming for what my doctor has recommended, which is 1800 calories/day plus exercise. That does, however, mean net calories of about 1500 calories a day or less after exercise. Usually I end up in the 1300 *net* calorie range, so we are talking about possibly trying to increase net calories by about 200-300 calories a day to get to what my doctor recommended (unless you are one of those people who think I should be eating 2300 calories/day which I just disagree with).

    Nguk - There are different calculators all over the place. The one in your link gives my BMR as 1945 calories, activity at 912 and my total calories as 2857. I entered the following info: Male, age 56, weight 100.8 kg, height 174 cm. 7 hrs resting, 15.5 hr very light activity, 1 hr light activity and 0.5 hr moderate activity. However this other site (http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/) gives my BMR as just 1679 calories, which is more in correspondence with the value MyFitnessPal gives. That's quite a difference between the two calculators.

    Thanks,

    doug
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member

    Joylia - I'll check out the links. Thanks. I do want to clarify something: I am not and have never been aiming for 1,000 calories or less. I have always been aiming for what my doctor has recommended, which is 1800 calories/day plus exercise. That does, however, mean net calories of about 1500 calories a day or less after exercise. Usually I end up in the 1300 *net* calorie range, so we are talking about possibly trying to increase net calories by about 200-300 calories a day to get to what my doctor recommended (unless you are one of those people who think I should be eating 2300 calories/day which I just disagree with).


    So...you are working with a doctor on this...so why are you posting about being frustrated. Aren't these things you should be conveying to your doctor???

    And if your doctor is telling you to do these things, then what can we tell you??? Now I'm confused as to what the post is about...
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    One extra note: I checked the link for adding calories and the suggestion there really don't apply to me. Since having my heart attack in May, I decided to go on the Ornish/Esselystyn plan (like what Bill Clinton did) and is supposed to be a "heart disease reversal" plan. So this means that since May I've been vegan + no added oils + no nuts/seeds.

    Since going on this diet, I've lost 62 lb, my total cholesterol has dropped to 130, my LDL to 70 and my HbA1c has dropped from the dangerous level of 10.7 to around 5 and I'm off all blood sugar medications now. So eating this way has had positive health effects for me so far. And I eat plenty. I definitely don't feel like I'm starving myself.

    Still, I admit I could probably up the calories a bit more. I could easily accomplish that with an extra or larger brown rice servings a day, for example. Or some more fruit or legumes.

    My only concern is why my weight has suddenly started fluctuating this month in particular.

    Thanks,

    doug
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    Joyla - My doctor told me after my heart attack I need to go on an 1800 calorie/day diet and do exercise. So I did. As I mentioned in my followup note I decided to accomplish this with the Ornish/Esselstyn type extremely low fat vegan diet.

    If my doctor told me my calorie limit and that precludes me from posting here when I run into a plateau well, I don't really understand the purpose of these forums or what your complaint is. Are you suggesting that people who are told by their doctor to go on a diet and limit their calories to a certain amount should not post here???

    Thanks,

    doug
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    Maybe this graph will clarify my frustration.

    This is a graph of my daily weight since starting my diet in May. The vertical axis is kilograms and the horizontal axis is days.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/1eu9gwy6lhet0zz/weight-20121230.png

    As you can see, until this month my diet was going along just great. But as I got close to 100 kg all of a sudden the curve changed to be almost flat.

    So my frustration is due to the suddenness of the change. Especially since I'm nowhere near my goal weight?

    Does that make it easier to understand why I have become frustrated?

    Thanks,

    doug
  • kcoftx
    kcoftx Posts: 765 Member
    Have you always stepped on your scale this often in the past? Your body fluctuates ALL THE TIME.
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    kcoftx - Yes, I usually weigh myself every day. I know that daily fluctuations are not meaningful. And I try not to let a daily weight gain bother me. And I admit I'm happier on days when there is a daily weight loss.

    But the problem this time isn't the daily fluctuations. As you can see on the graph (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1eu9gwy6lhet0zz/weight-20121230.png) the problem is that all of a sudden this month my weight loss seems to have come to more-or-less a screeching halt. And I don't know why.

    Plus it's 12/30 and I was really looking forward to breaking 100 kg this year, and I'm obviously not going to be able to do that.

    So - I am frustrated. And that's why I posted.

    Thanks,

    doug
  • KazSmith68
    KazSmith68 Posts: 85
    Open your Food Diary.

    Are you eating back those Exercise Calories. If not, you're doing it wrong. Just like last time.



    I never eat back what I have burned?
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    If my doctor told me my calorie limit and that precludes me from posting here when I run into a plateau well, I don't really understand the purpose of these forums or what your complaint is. Are you suggesting that people who are told by their doctor to go on a diet and limit their calories to a certain amount should not post here???

    No, that's not what I'm suggesting. But from the sound of your original post, it sounds like you are asking for advice. You don't start off saying you've been to the doctor and have been told this and that but still feeling frustrated and just needing some motivation....

    No, it sounds like you are not happy with your plan and wanting to figure out what is wrong with it. This leads us all to try to give you suggestions which you just shoot down. It's very frustrating for everyone who wants to help you but that you have no intention of needing help when you've already been advised by your doctor. Or if you do, it isn't clear with exactly what you need help with.
  • quirkytizzy
    quirkytizzy Posts: 4,052 Member
    It's possible you've hit the dreaded plateau.
  • DebbieLyn63
    DebbieLyn63 Posts: 2,654 Member
    Your BMR may be calculated a bit too high for you now that you have lost some weight, and are fairly sedentary. Try using this link to figure your numbers, using lightly active.

    http://www.cordianet.com/calculator.htm

    Unless you are lifting weights and are highly active, (which it doesn't sound like you are either), then you probably just need fewer calories than the average man who is more active, and has more muscle mass than you probably do.

    Maybe you have slacked off on measuring and weighing foods, and you are actually eating more than you think you are. It happens to the best of us.
  • nguk123
    nguk123 Posts: 223
    kcoftx - Yes, I usually weigh myself every day. I know that daily fluctuations are not meaningful. And I try not to let a daily weight gain bother me. And I admit I'm happier on days when there is a daily weight loss.

    But the problem this time isn't the daily fluctuations. As you can see on the graph (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1eu9gwy6lhet0zz/weight-20121230.png) the problem is that all of a sudden this month my weight loss seems to have come to more-or-less a screeching halt. And I don't know why.

    Plus it's 12/30 and I was really looking forward to breaking 100 kg this year, and I'm obviously not going to be able to do that.

    So - I am frustrated. And that's why I posted.

    Thanks,

    doug

    You've done tremendously well to lose a substantial amount of weight this far. According to the chart you've lost this weight over a continuous long period of 8 or 9 months ?

    My layman understanding is that dieting continuously over long periods can stall, even if you diet perfects without overly dramatic daily defecits. and may often stall due to metabolic slowdown, i.e. hormone changes.

    I have heard that it is common practice for purposeful diet breaks to be undertaken whereby you incrementally ramp your daily caloric intake back up to you your maintenance so as to intentionally maintain for a period of minimum 2weeks. The purpose is to restore your metabolic function. After 2 or 3 weeks of your diet break, you go back into your diet cut and hopefully your body will cooperate in resuming the shedding.

    Perhaps run this by your doctor? I don't know if there are any tests that can be done to determine such changes to your hormones/metabolism (or whether you would have needed baseline tests to compare them against? ) but its probably worth broaching the topic.

    And maybe just give the diet break a chance anyway.
  • Going4Lean
    Going4Lean Posts: 1,078 Member
    Have you tried this


    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12
  • critterrupp
    critterrupp Posts: 3
    Hey Doug,

    I am new to this site but I know from past experiences how frustrating it is to hit that plateau. The important thing is not to give up. That is exactly what I did and why I am starting over and have even more weigh to lose than last time. One thing you could try is changing up the foods you eat. I am not sure what you are eating but I know my body kind of gets bored when I eat the same things over and over. Once I changed it up a little I started losing weight again. Also make sure you are drinking enough water. Hope this helps. Just remember DON'T GIVE UP!
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    Joylia wrote: "This leads us all to try to give you suggestions which you just shoot down."

    I'm sorry you feel I'm shooting down all suggestions. Since I'm actually taking some suggestions I guess I disagree with your assessment of that. It's impossible to take all suggestions and agree with everybody though, since some people's suggestions are different from others. I do the best I can with the suggestions I get.

    quirkytizzy: Yes, it does seem I've reached some sort of plateau. It is frustrating.

    DebbieLyn: The site you pointed me to says:

    Caloric Need:
    Estimated Base BMR: 1481 Calories.
    Estimated TDEE: 1777 Calories.

    That might indeed be correct. And when you say "Unless you are lifting weights and are highly active, (which it doesn't sound like you are either), then you probably just need fewer calories than the average man who is more active, and has more muscle mass than you probably do." that conclusion makes the most sense to me of the advice I've received so far. I definitely have not slacked off in measurements though. Been there done that in past diets and know the risks. I weigh everything on a digital scale. Even my java sparrows (whom I don't eat).

    nguk: Been at this since 5/19 when I had my heart attack. So it's about 7.5 months now. My doctor isn't tremendously helpful regarding the tweaks of a diet. But you may be right. The other thought I had is that perhaps my metabolic slowdown is due to the change in seasons. Since the beginning of the month the weather here in Tokyo has gotten dramatically colder. I wonder if that can help slow down a person's metabolism (i.e. conserve fat to keep warm).

    Going4Lean: I hadn't read that page before. It's interesting. My TDEE numbers (even BMR) seem to be all over the place though. Depending on which site I use the numbers I get vary enormously it seems! According to DebbieLyn's site (see above) my TDEE is just 1777.

    Critterup: Thanks for the encouragement. I definitely won't give up. After having a heart attack all temptation to eat fried/fatty foods has evaporated. I think I've eaten enough fried chicken for 10 lifetimes and don't miss it. The main frustration is that it's almost the end of the year so I'm just disappointed about not breaking the 100 kg mark by year's end, like I thought I was on track to do. Your idea about more variety is an excellent one. I've been thinking the same thing myself lately and wondering if my body is "too used" to what I've been eating. I'm not handy in the kitchen, and just know how to make a few things. As I mentioned in another post, it took me about 10,500 days since arriving in Japan to finally try to use a rice cooker. Now I make myself brown rice every day.

    I've also wondered if my metabolism gets hurt by snacking too much during the day. Some sites recommend frequent, small meals. But I have always wondered if that's like highway driving instead of stop-and-go city traffic. Cars are most efficient when they are constantly being fed fuel. And of course I'm aiming for LESS efficiency so I can lose weight!

    Thanks again, people!

    doug
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    Since so many people have mentioned TDEE here are the results of calculating my TDEE from different sites:

    http://www.iifym.com/tdee-calculator: 2789

    http://thefitgirls.com/tdee-calculator.aspx: 2323

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/: also 2323

    http://theskinnyequation.blogspot.jp/p/weight-loss-calculators.html: 2189

    http://www.fitnessfactreview.com/tdee-calculator/: 3164

    Anyway, the numbers are all over the map. But most seem to indicate a pretty low TDEE and if I eat 80% of my TDEE then the basic recommendation of 1800 calories/day seems about right.

    doug
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
    I agree 1800 sounds about right.
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    Well, a disappointing end to 2012 in some respects. My weight ticked up again yesterday and I ended December 31 at 101.2. That's just 0.2 kg down from what I weighed on December 1. It feels like a whole wasted month. And I wasn't able to break through 100 kg by the end of the year.

    Nothing to do but go on and see how things go in January.

    doug
  • kcoftx
    kcoftx Posts: 765 Member
    You will feel a lot less frustrated if you look at progress over time instead of exact due dates.

    Even if you plateau, it's still progress over time. It's much more productive to look at your accomplishments. It's okay to reflect and see what you can do about it. That's a given. Obsessing about an exact time frame is not the healthiest of mindsets.

    “If you focus on results, you will never change. If you focus on change, you will get results.” ~Jack Dixon

    My advice? Focus on health/fitness goals rather than weight. Those goals should always be changing.

    Edited for clarification: There is nothing wrong with the questions you ask. There is nothing wrong with evaluating what you need to do. The narrow focus of your complaint keeps coming back to how you didn't make a deadline and that, my dear friend, is something you need to let go of a little bit. Move on and make some new goals. This time, don't put a time limit on it. Make some health/fitness goals. Work on the change and the results will come.
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    Well, you're right of course. It was just... well... so close!

    But of course I have to let go of the hoped-for timeline now. After all, it's just 5 hours to 2013 here in Tokyo. Time to look forward rather than backwards.

    I can moan and complain some more starting in the new year. :)

    Thanks,

    doug
  • kcoftx
    kcoftx Posts: 765 Member
    I'm in Japan too. Happy New Years! (Soon)
  • SuperD747
    SuperD747 Posts: 3
    Hello douglerner,

    Good job all you have to do is change your the kind of water you drinking. Alkaline is the way to go. :smile:
  • SuperD747
    SuperD747 Posts: 3
    Hello douglerner,

    Good job all you have to do is change your the kind of water you drinking. Alkaline is the way to go. smile

    talk soon
  • SuperD747
    SuperD747 Posts: 3
    Sorry posted to you by mistake,:happy:
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    Happy New Year kcoftx! Whereabouts in Japan are you? I'm in Tokyo.

    About water - I just drink plain old triple-filtered water I get in jugs at the supermarket.

    doug
  • douglerner
    douglerner Posts: 237 Member
    And another weight gain of 0.2 kg for the morning of January 1, 2013. So I now weight exactly what I did on December 1. Disappointing way to start the new year. This morning I'm up again to 101.4 kg.

    I'm still skeptical that "eating more calories" is the way to lose more weight. If I gain too much weight I will reverse course and revert to common sense which still tells me that the less net calories I eat the more weight I will lose. That means eating less and/or exercising more.

    I'm willing to eat crow (well not literally) if I'm proved wrong, but so far not so good.

    doug

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