Extreme muscle soreness and/or DOMS
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What routine did you achieve this on ?
You need to balance intensity and volume and frequency...
Also I've heard good things about foam rolling, and light cardio for recovery.
Mainly after heavy lifting although, sometimes, my bootcamp class can do it to me. I don't really have a set routine where I do certain things on certain days. I do space my weight workouts out by 2-4 days but, in-between, I'll spin, run, outdoor cycle, hike, or do cardio-kickboxing or bootcamp classes. I don't have set rest days. Some weeks I might only have one rest day. Other weeks, I might have 2-3. It just really depends on my schedule, what I've done, and how intense my fatigue is.
Gosh, the more I write this out and put thought into it, I'm beginning to think it's just over-training. But I need to push myself to achieve the things on my bucket list. Maybe I'm expecting more from this 55yo body than it's wanting to give me?
Haven't tried foam rolling. Heard of it but have forgotten about it. Might be worth a go.0 -
If you are on statins (to lower cholesterol) it could be something serious like an adverse drug reaction, if so see your Dr. Prob not a bad idea to see your dr anyways as I've not heard of someone staying really sore for so long.
No statins. No medications at all.
My crappy medical coverage makes me want to avoid getting doctor involvement at this point but I realize it's something I may have to consider at some point. Thanks!0 -
If you are on statins (to lower cholesterol) it could be something serious like an adverse drug reaction, if so see your Dr. Prob not a bad idea to see your dr anyways as I've not heard of someone staying really sore for so long.
Im 40-soon to be 41 and not long ago posted almost the same question.
Maybe us older folks do need longer recovery or work outs tailored to our age/ability/etc. I can squat 100#s but REALLY want to do body weight squats (another 28 or so #s)
I believe I can do it- my body is holding me back. So now youve heard of 2 ppl taking a really long time to not be sore after a good work out. These may be problems unheard of of to some- but they are real and we'd like some good info on whats going on, can it be helped or prevented or what ever else ppl over 40 need to know (but dont) about lifting and heavy work outs.0 -
If you are on statins (to lower cholesterol) it could be something serious like an adverse drug reaction, if so see your Dr. Prob not a bad idea to see your dr anyways as I've not heard of someone staying really sore for so long.
No statins. No medications at all.
My crappy medical coverage makes me want to avoid getting doctor involvement at this point but I realize it's something I may have to consider at some point. Thanks!
I took my crappy medical coverage to my doc and discussed all this. I really like my doc- but shes in the sick biz- not the well biz. So my "well check up" soup to nuts- after a 30$ co pay and a gillion tests to find out Im a very young and healthy 40 year old still cost me well over 200$ in the portion coverage wouldnt cover.
I asked tons of work out questions and voiced my concerns over certain aches and pains that come from working out. She encouraged me to keep working out- she said its rare to have patients that even try to be healthy. Sad but true.
After that bill came- I vowed to never go to the doc again. Something I semi- vowed years ago, but figured I should have the old "40,000 mile check up" Yea well- its too pricey to be healthy and I got NO info that helped me in my fitness quests. I now pray I dont hurt myself or get sick since I cant friggin afford it.
My next investment in my health is a personal trainer. I hope I can find someone who works with ppl over 40 that are serious about lifting and can guide me thru my trials and set backs.
Good luck to you!0 -
You may be low on potassium. You could try it in pill form. I'm always low even eating potassium rich foods.
I never thought of that. I know low potassium can trigger cramping but that's not really what I'm experiencing. But, heck, it's worth a try. I switched my diary to track potassium and even with a banana, my level is low today. So I'll add a potassium supplement to my shopping list. Thanks!
I would talk to my doctor before starting any sort of potassium supplementation. You don't even know if your levels are low. Potassium is not something you want to screw around and guess at. Too much can be extremely dangerous and there are certain drug interactions you should be aware of. Have a doctor check your levels and see IF you need to supplement.
Thanks for that tip. I'll do more reading up on potassium supplementation before giving it a try.
Gosh, maybe I should just bite the bullet and go get a thorough blood screening.0 -
I've been lifting for 14 years and I still get DOMS from leg day pretty much every single time. It's just part of lifting. Back can be almost as bad. How regularly are you lifting?
Unfortunately leg days also tear the *kitten* outta me too. Light soreness for anything else but legs are just another animal here.
I know!! Maybe I'm just being a wuss. :sad:0 -
If you are on statins (to lower cholesterol) it could be something serious like an adverse drug reaction, if so see your Dr. Prob not a bad idea to see your dr anyways as I've not heard of someone staying really sore for so long.
No statins. No medications at all.
My crappy medical coverage makes me want to avoid getting doctor involvement at this point but I realize it's something I may have to consider at some point. Thanks!
I took my crappy medical coverage to my doc and discussed all this. I really like my doc- but shes in the sick biz- not the well biz. So my "well check up" soup to nuts- after a 30$ co pay and a gillion tests to find out Im a very young and healthy 40 year old still cost me well over 200$ in the portion coverage wouldnt cover.
I asked tons of work out questions and voiced my concerns over certain aches and pains that come from working out. She encouraged me to keep working out- she said its rare to have patients that even try to be healthy. Sad but true.
After that bill came- I vowed to never go to the doc again. Something I semi- vowed years ago, but figured I should have the old "40,000 mile check up" Yea well- its too pricey to be healthy and I got NO info that helped me in my fitness quests. I now pray I dont hurt myself or get sick since I cant friggin afford it.
My next investment in my health is a personal trainer. I hope I can find someone who works with ppl over 40 that are serious about lifting and can guide me thru my trials and set backs.
Good luck to you!
Yeah, crappy insurance sucks. We have a $10,000 deductible with only one wellness visit a year covered and a few other incidentals so any tests above-and-beyond what is considered normal, preventative would be out-of-pocket. I fear the bill more than I fear the muscle soreness/fatigue. And, yeah, I'm always hyper-vigilant when exercising, riding my bike, driving, hiking...all the time, really...because the prospect of paying for an injury spooks my wallet, big time.
I really like my doctor and find him good to work with but, overall, I have a pretty negative impression of the medical profession due to past experiences. Lots of long stories, not worth detailing here. So that, combined with the costs, makes seeking medical help the last resort for me.0 -
I hope I've responded to everyone. Thanks for all the tips. It gives me some things to research and consider. If anybody has an idea not yet mentioned, please speak up.0
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This is an interesting thread!
I'd like to know more about you leg routine(for example)
When you hitting legs twice a week, how many exercised x how many sets x reps would you typically do?0 -
This is an interesting thread!
I'd like to know more about you leg routine(for example)
When you hitting legs twice a week, how many exercised x how many sets x reps would you typically do?
I plan on switching to Stronglifts 5x5 in a week or so. Just need to firm up which trainer I'm going to hire for a couple of sessions to ensure my form is good. A bit nervous but I think my overall fitness and strength is good enough to handle it now. Have been rehabbing from a back injury so have been needing to strengthen core and back and work on balance issues before switching to free weights. At least, I felt the need to do it that way as I never want to endure an injury like that again. Anyway, just saying that because I've been doing the machines and I know they're not the best way to do weight-training.
Anyway, I usually do the following:
* Warm up with 10 minutes on the rowing machine
* Start with the ab and back machines before moving onto legs
* Leg press, calf raises on leg press, leg extensions, leg curls (all on machines). The only time I do it out of this order is if a machine isn't available right when I want it. I usually am able to hit the gym when it's not very busy so I normally don't have a problem doing it in this order.
* A standing machine where I do the following: adductors, abductors, glutes, hip flexors
* Usually end with 10 minutes of HIIT. Usually 5 minutes on the elliptical where I vary the resistance and the...oh, what's it called?...where you change the distance that the steps go up and down. 30 seconds high-intensity/60 seconds recovery. Then I usually end with 5 minutes on the exercise bike, keeping it at about 8 for resistance and then pedaling as fast as possible for 30 seconds, 60 seconds recovery pedaling.
* Cool down - usually 5 minutes walking on the treadmill
* Stretching - I stretch the muscles I used on each machine immediately after using the machine because I just plain think it feels good and helps me do the next machine better by loosening up those tanked muscles before I move on. So my stretching at the end is usually only about 6-8 minutes long. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to increase this but I really feel that I'm well stretched out by the time I'm done.
As for weights lifted: I start with 12 reps at a weight about 50% from my working weight. I then set it at the weight I'm working at and do as many reps as I can up to a total of 8 reps. If I can only do 5 reps, for example, I drop the weight 5# and then complete my 8 reps at that weight. Once I can do 8 reps at that weight, I move the weight up 5# and use that as a starting point for my next session. I then go to a weight at about 70% of my working weight and try to do 12 reps. Sometimes I can do all 12 reps at that weight but, if I'm really gassed, I sometimes need to move it down 5# at some point to complete the 12 reps. Then I stretch and move onto the next machine.
Hope that makes sense. I know it's not a typical style of weight-training but it seems to be working for me. I rarely have a session where I don't increase my reps at my top weight like from doing 4 reps at max weight to 6 reps, then the next session can maybe go 7 reps, then 8, or increase to the next weight level.
It will be interesting to see how I do when I switch to SL 5x5 because that is going to be so different. I just hope it doesn't increase my soreness/fatigue issues. I'm anticipating only doing it twice a week instead of the recommended three times each week so I can do my other stuff (bootcamp, spinnning, kickboxing, running, cycling, hiking, whatever) in-between weight sessions. Just to be clear, I don't necessarily do all of those every week. Some weeks I might run once, spin once, bootcamp once. Some weeks I might cycle outside twice, and run once. Whatever. It varies. And once in awhile I might skip one of those more cardio-style workouts and do sprints at the track and then run up/down the bleachers for stairs for a more HIIT-style workout. I guess you could say most of my runs are HIIT to an extent because my regular running route is on a hill and I do it a bit fartlek-style. It's just more fun that way. And some weeks I might just do a couple long hikes and not really do much other cardio at all that week. Or do virtually nothing else during the week but walk my old dog (very slowly) because I feel like I need a recovery week. Once in a awhile, I swim laps. In the summer, I do less of the other stuff as I enjoy going for long bike rides when the weather is good (30, 40, 50 miles at least once a week with shorter rides during the week). My workouts really vary.
Oh, should note that, at present, I really only do weights for my legs once a week as I believe all the other stuff is giving my legs plenty of exercise. I then do a day of upper-body at another time. If I feel like doing an extra weight-training workout during the week, it's usually a second day of upper-body.
Wow, didn't mean to go on so long but trying to give a complete and probably somewhat confusing picture. If you see anything that I should be aware of that I'm doing wrong, please let me know.0 -
How often do you eat beans, lentils or dried peas?
it's very easy to get enough protein with veggie burgers.0 -
How often do you eat beans, lentils or dried peas?
it's very easy to get enough protein with veggie burgers.
The carb/protein ratio of most of these types of things doesn't work for my diabetes control. I do better with more protein and lower-carb.0 -
Please don't take potassium supplements, they're dangerous! Just increase your intake of food that contains potassium. Supplements can increase the levels very quickly causing cardiac arrhythmias and life threatening problems. WHen I give them to hospital patients it's only ever for a few days.
As a nurse, I completely and utterly second this. It makes me very uncomfortable that people may do this.
Honestly it sounds like it's time to call your doctor. I'd guess that bloodwork will likely be done, but that will of course be your doctor's call.
Hope you're feeling better soon!0 -
You can design a program not using the same muscles day after lifting so intensely.
Try to keep the HR in the fat-burning zone, not for that purpose, but because that usually means you aren't putting a hard load on the muscles. That's the reason the zone is more correctly called Active Recovery zone.
So that would be a slower gentler workout. And if it seems to slow, view it this way - you are training your fat-burning aerobic system on that day, and allowing full recovery from the lifting to really get the biggest benefit from that too. Blood flow into muscles helps too.
Now, if you want better cardio intensity because you just enjoy pushing yourself hard, do it the day before lifting, knowing that the more intense you make it, the more tired the muscle will be, the less effort you'll be able to put into the lifting, meaning the less results from it.
Got pick your focus and desired results.0 -
Take a look at the science behind active recovery and why its better to reduce your exercise but not stop completely.
Also try getting some amino acids from the health food shop and up your protein intake to improve recovery.
I get doms and take painkiller to keep going, but I know if I stop its so much worse and my progress stops.
I hope you find the answer u need xx0 -
Very good answer.DOMS is just sore muscles. It doesn't involve weakness or fatigue.
^^^^ This.
What you are describing sounds more like overtraining or a medical issue than normal DOMS. DOMS is muscle soreness, also feeling stiff, and you may find it hard to walk, sit down etc, purely because the muscles feel sore and stiff, but feeling weak is not normal for DOMS.
My first question is whether you're giving each muscle group enough time to recover after each workout, you should leave 48 hrs before working the same muscle group again, otherwise your body does not get time to recover, and you end up not making progress because you never give your muscles a chance to repair and rebuild themselves after the workout. If you're already leaving 48 hrs, try leaving 72 hrs. If you're leaving 72 hrs or more between each workout involving the same muscle groups, then the next paragraph applies. Going to the gym 6 days a week is okay, but only if your workout is designed so each individual muscle group gets the right amount of rest between workouts.
I'm not a doctor so can't give medical advice, but if I was experiencing these symptoms in spite of ensuring that each muscle group got enough rest (48-72 hrs) before the next time I work out the same muscle group, and was also paying attention to good nutrition, i.e. enough calories, macros etc, then I'd go and see a doctor and find out what's going on.0 -
DOMS is just sore muscles. It doesn't involve weakness or fatigue.
^^^^ This.
What you are describing sounds more like overtraining or a medical issue than normal DOMS. DOMS is muscle soreness, also feeling stiff, and you may find it hard to walk, sit down etc, purely because the muscles feel sore and stiff, but feeling weak is not normal for DOMS.
My first question is whether you're giving each muscle group enough time to recover after each workout, you should leave 48 hrs before working the same muscle group again, otherwise your body does not get time to recover, and you end up not making progress because you never give your muscles a chance to repair and rebuild themselves after the workout. If you're already leaving 48 hrs, try leaving 72 hrs. If you're leaving 72 hrs or more between each workout involving the same muscle groups, then the next paragraph applies. Going to the gym 6 days a week is okay, but only if your workout is designed so each individual muscle group gets the right amount of rest between workouts.
I'm not a doctor so can't give medical advice, but if I was experiencing these symptoms in spite of ensuring that each muscle group got enough rest (48-72 hrs) before the next time I work out the same muscle group, and was also paying attention to good nutrition, i.e. enough calories, macros etc, then I'd go and see a doctor and find out what's going on.
Maybe I don't know how to design a workout properly then. I don't understand how to not use the legs in virtually any kind of exercising one does. If I work my legs hard with the weights, how can I rest them up to 72 hours and do any other kind of exercises? That means I can't bike, run, hike, spin or do kickboxing for 3 days?
I get the vast majority of this feeling in my legs, especially glutes and hams. Sometimes the quads, but not as often, as I'm pretty quad dominant so I try to work the glutes/hams the most. If I get it on my upper-body, it's usually the shoulders. Very, very rarely do I get it in the core, back or arms.
I guess I just can't figure out how I can work out more than about twice a week if it means that I need to rest that much each time I work out. Can someone elaborate?
I put 72 hrs in case resting for 48 hrs wasn't enough. 48 hrs is enough rest for most people. However recovery times can be individual so you should adjust based on how quickly you actually recover.
Cardio, like running and hiking and kickboxing is a little different and you can do those during your rest time as they work the muscles in a different way (i.e. lower intensity, long duration, aerobic exercise). What requires the rest amounts I mentioned is really heavy stuff like squats, deadlifts etc, or anything else that's equivalent to weights workouts, i.e. highly anaerobic high intensity low reps kind of exercise. Sorry I didn't make that clear! Also, very intense kinds of cardio, e.g. HIIT or crossfit type stuff that includes cardio and heavy lifting or some other form of low rep, intense duration loading of the muscles along with the cardio may interfere with recovery.
Basically, when you work the muscles really hard (i.e. anaerobically/high intensity low rep type of hard) you break down muscle tissue. Your body then repairs what's broken down and when it does, it repairs it to be just a little bit stronger than before. This requires adequate protein and happens when you are resting, and usually takes 48 hrs, in some people it may take 72 hrs. (and recovery times can improve over time if you regularly work out) Your muscles respond differently to cardio as that does not cause the same breakdown in the tissue. You can do cardio every day (although it's generally recommended to take a complete day off once a week, and as you're having trouble with recovery, I'd definitely suggest that) but you can't do the same body parts with weights or an equivalent intensity to weights every day. If you're doing, for example, squats and deadlifts to failure every day, then your body will be in a constant state of muscle fibres being broken down, without ever giving them a chance to rebuild, which would cause a lot of the symptoms you describe.
As for designing workout programmes, if you want to do weights most days of the week, then break it into upper and lower body days and do e.g. mon wed fri - lower body, tues thur sat - upper body. Cardio you can do as well, but if you're doing a heavy lifting programme you do need to make sure each muscle group gets enough rest.
My schedule (I'm alternating bulking and cutting, my overall goal is to improve strength, increase lean body mass, and also gradually lower my body fat percentage from 23% to 20%) is that I do weights 4 times a week (2 upper body days, 2 lower body days) where I go really intense, i.e. 5-12 reps to failure and stuff like doing planks until I collapse), during my week I have 2-3 days of being active (stuff like carrying my toddler and heavy shopping bags up 2 flights of stairs to my apartment) but not doing any formal workout, or maybe walking on the treadmill or a low intensity workout video or something. I'm seeing results from that, in terms of good gains in strength and body composition improvements. Sometimes less can be more.
Lots of people do a lot more exercise than me and don't have a problem with recovery - but it seems that you do have a problem with recovery, which could be medical (you should check with your doctor), or it could be that you're not giving yourself enough rest time. If you want to continue with all the cardio on whatever day, then do, but maybe lower the intensity of it, and ensure that whatever weights programme you're doing is well designed so that no muscle group is being overtrained.0 -
This sounds like way more than muscle soreness like others have said. This amount of fatigue is not normal if you have been working out regularly minus a few weeks here and there. It definitely sounds like over training or an issue with your diet. I read through many but not all the replies but I didn't see your caloric intake?? How many calories are you taking in on a regular basis.
I would suggest getting a good physical and checking for anemia. Just bc you are post menopausal doesn't mean anything. I had a friend who was running regularly but completely worn out all the time and never could fully recover from the basic run. She had a physical and was so anemic she needed a transfusion and she was post menopausal so schedule your appt. And I ditto not taking supplements until you talk to your doc. Those aren't for everyone. Good luck0 -
You can design a program not using the same muscles day after lifting so intensely.
Try to keep the HR in the fat-burning zone, not for that purpose, but because that usually means you aren't putting a hard load on the muscles. That's the reason the zone is more correctly called Active Recovery zone.
So that would be a slower gentler workout. And if it seems to slow, view it this way - you are training your fat-burning aerobic system on that day, and allowing full recovery from the lifting to really get the biggest benefit from that too. Blood flow into muscles helps too.
Now, if you want better cardio intensity because you just enjoy pushing yourself hard, do it the day before lifting, knowing that the more intense you make it, the more tired the muscle will be, the less effort you'll be able to put into the lifting, meaning the less results from it.
Got pick your focus and desired results.
Maybe my problem is that I can't seem to pick a specific focus? I've actually wondered about that. But I struggle with boredom and have too many varied goals.
I like to ride my bike and have done a few century rides and want to keep that up in order to do more century rides this summer plus a couple of short bicycle touring trips I'm planning.
I like to hike and am adding mountaineering via a class I'm taking this Jan-June which will include climbing and the need for more strength to carry a heavy pack up steep hills and the muscle endurance to do this. And I'm starting to do some more focused upper-body strength conditioning because we will be doing some climbing which will require this so I can pull myself up using ropes. My hand strength is fairly poor so I'm adding in various farmer carries especially pinching a weight-plate between my fingers and carrying them to increase hand strength.
I like to run....well, don't really like it but want to be able to do it. I've worked very hard to get to where I can do a 5k although I'll never be fast I just want to maintain my ability to go the distance.
And I like to lift because it makes me stronger in general and the other, many benefits of lifting.
If I had to give up any of these to focus on just one major goal, I would be sad. These are the things that make life worth living. I will never be the fastest or fittest cyclist or runner, or the strongest weight-lifter, or the best mountaineer. I know that and it's OK. I'm not working out for medals. But I want to continue to participate in these activities because they're fun.
So, yeah, I'm trying to juggle it all and I just might not be doing the best job of juggling.0 -
Maybe my problem is that I can't seem to pick a specific focus? I've actually wondered about that. But I struggle with boredom and have too many varied goals.
I like to ride my bike and have done a few century rides and want to keep that up in order to do more century rides this summer plus a couple of short bicycle touring trips I'm planning.
I like to hike and am adding mountaineering via a class I'm taking this Jan-June which will include climbing and the need for more strength to carry a heavy pack up steep hills and the muscle endurance to do this. And I'm starting to do some more focused upper-body strength conditioning because we will be doing some climbing which will require this so I can pull myself up using ropes. My hand strength is fairly poor so I'm adding in various farmer carries especially pinching a weight-plate between my fingers and carrying them to increase hand strength.
I like to run....well, don't really like it but want to be able to do it. I've worked very hard to get to where I can do a 5k although I'll never be fast I just want to maintain my ability to go the distance.
And I like to lift because it makes me stronger in general and the other, many benefits of lifting.
If I had to give up any of these to focus on just one major goal, I would be sad. These are the things that make life worth living. I will never be the fastest or fittest cyclist or runner, or the strongest weight-lifter, or the best mountaineer. I know that and it's OK. I'm not working out for medals. But I want to continue to participate in these activities because they're fun.
So, yeah, I'm trying to juggle it all and I just might not be doing the best job of juggling.
So just plan on doing lifting 2 x weekly.
Day after is your endurance training for whatever is coming up, so running focus or biking focus, or both. Down in recovery zone is just fine.
You can keep cycling or running legs in shape just once a week, because the cross training still helps. When event is coming up, you can do more of whatever is needed.
That's 4 days, that leaves 1 or 2 days with more intense cardio, done day before lifting.
If you need more specific training for an event, the lifting for say legs can be traded for hill sprints every other week. Or lifting can back off to 1 day a week, or upper only falling intense lower body usage.
And I'll say the lifting heavy for deadlift will help that grip too.
That may be varied, but that isn't too much variety there you can't benefit from whatever is done.0
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