ketogenic diets and depression

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has anybody here read any interesting information on this topic? i have read alot about low carb and its effect on serotonin levels, but seems mostly negative and from typical websites that are not pro keto.

i am not trolling. i have a severe sugar addiction and depression and i want some real advice backed up with literature.

i read this interesting blog, but it's old and i am not bipolar. http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.ca/2010/08/ketogenic-diets-and-bipolar-disorder-2.html

can anyone help me?

i am also working with my doctor so i won't just be trying out anything without checking with him as well. so no naggy nellies!
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Replies

  • onyxgirl17
    onyxgirl17 Posts: 1,721 Member
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    Can't help you out here. I think I'd be pretty depressed on a ketogenic diet ;)
  • Springfield_Rocks
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    another post

    http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.ca/

    this doc seems to really be on to something....
  • Springfield_Rocks
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    Can't help you out here. I think I'd be pretty depressed on a ketogenic diet ;)

    lol! i know it is very limited. but perhaps it is worth it if it helps me to feel better psychologically?
  • laurastrait21
    laurastrait21 Posts: 307 Member
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    The only thing i have read in regards to a ketogenic diet and neurologic conditions is that it is effective for people with intractible epilepsy but is only recommended if nothing else (medications, lifestlye changes i.e. sleep patterns, alcohol use etc.) has worked.

    I wouldn't recommend it -- but if you can find peer-reviewed literature that states otherwise, it is worth a shot. There is also some interesting articles out there about fish oil consumption and depression -- but everything I've read in terms of carbohydrate/sugar is not significant.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
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    Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.

    I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.

    Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.

    The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.

    I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.
  • Springfield_Rocks
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    The only thing i have read in regards to a ketogenic diet and neurologic conditions is that it is effective for people with intractible epilepsy but is only recommended if nothing else (medications, lifestlye changes i.e. sleep patterns, alcohol use etc.) has worked.

    I wouldn't recommend it -- but if you can find peer-reviewed literature that states otherwise, it is worth a shot. There is also some interesting articles out there about fish oil consumption and depression -- but everything I've read in terms of carbohydrate/sugar is not significant.

    i have read a lot of similar articles. the reason i guess i am wondering is because i had tried a Daniel fast in November which is opposite of ketogenic, no animal products and no refined sugar. I felt absolutley terrible, i lasted about two weeks and i had a mjor mood meltdown. I know it was related to the diet, so I thought I should do the opposite. So that is where i am at.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    Chocolate is good for depression. Avoid alcohol.
  • Springfield_Rocks
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    Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.

    I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.

    Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.

    The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.

    I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.

    thank you! what kind of fat do you primarily eat?

    can i add you as a friend and peek at your diary?
  • felice03
    felice03 Posts: 2,732 Member
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    where is a certain FlamboyantFather when you need him?
  • Kaathmandu
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    Works for me!
  • Bentley2718
    Bentley2718 Posts: 1,690 Member
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    Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.

    I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.

    Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.

    The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.

    I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.

    This is most definitely not peer reviewed.

    Also, while adequate fat intake is necessary for all sorts of biological functions, this doesn't necessarily mean an incredibly high fat diet (such as ketogenic diets) are better.
  • dhakiyya
    dhakiyya Posts: 481 Member
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    I don't have research, only personal experience. I have PTSD and have had depression as well (not currently, thank God!!) and I can tell you from personal experience that any kind of very low carb or intermittent fasting type eating plan, or otherwise not getting enough healthy carbs and/or calories has a really bad effect on my mental health. I'm not totally sure of the reason why. I keep my macros balanced, i.e 40% carb 30% protein 30% fat, (or 35/35/30 sometimes) and I'm fine on that. Note that I don't eat as much carbohydrate as the typical western diet, I avoid excessive amounts of any carbohydrate but there is a minimal level of carbohydrate intake that I just can't go below. And also eating too much unhealthy carb is probably just as bad as that leads to unstable blood sugar levels, i.e. too much carbs then a blood sugar crash. Personally, I wouldn't do anything ketogenic, that would be too low carb for me. However that does not mean I'll go to the other extreme and eat tons of carbs either.

    Also pay attention to vitamin D and healthy fat in general, that has a big impact on mental health. the whole reason why I stick to balanced macros is to ensure I get a moderate amount of everything that my body needs (I pay a lot of attention to micronutrients too, i.e. trying to eat as wide a variety of natural/clean food as I can). Anything that involves cutting out an entire food group I'd think would probably be bad for me. I definitely wouldn't cut out fat either, or go low fat. I simply ensure that the fats and carbs I eat are good quality healthy ones.

    Since following a balanced nutrition plan and working out regularly with heavy weights (i.e. 5-12 reps to failure kind of heavy) and ensuring that I get enough sunlight/daylight, that's improved my mental health a lot. I still have PTSD (seems to refuse to ever go away) but I feel a lot better generally and it's a lot more under control, and I don't currently feel depressed.
  • Firefox7275
    Firefox7275 Posts: 2,040 Member
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    AFAIK you are asking for something that does not exist, there is no body of research on this. There is some published work on stabilising blood sugar levels (GI/ GL) and on certain nutrients (vitamin D, certain minerals, long chain omega-3s) and relieving clinical depression, have you tried something less extreme and with a better scientific foundation first? If you were my client my concern with leaping into ketosis would be these diets can very easily be deficient in certain nutrients, as can the diet/ bloods of someone eating a lot of sugar and refined rubbish.

    See what you can find on PubMed
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=depression glycaemic
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=depression nutrition
  • sharon4219
    sharon4219 Posts: 16 Member
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    Not sure if it is totally ketogenic, but I am doing the Atkins diet, I love it! I have lots of energy.
  • Springfield_Rocks
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    AFAIK you are asking for something that does not exist, there is no body of research on this. There is some published work on stabilising blood sugar levels (GI/ GL) and on certain nutrients (vitamin D, certain minerals, long chain omega-3s) and relieving clinical depression, have you tried something less extreme and with a better scientific foundation first? If you were my client my concern with leaping into ketosis would be these diets can very easily be deficient in certain nutrients, as can the diet/ bloods of someone eating a lot of sugar and refined rubbish.

    See what you can find on PubMed
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=depression glycaemic
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=depression nutrition

    thank you !
  • Springfield_Rocks
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    I don't have research, only personal experience. I have PTSD and have had depression as well (not currently, thank God!!) and I can tell you from personal experience that any kind of very low carb or intermittent fasting type eating plan, or otherwise not getting enough healthy carbs and/or calories has a really bad effect on my mental health. I'm not totally sure of the reason why. I keep my macros balanced, i.e 40% carb 30% protein 30% fat, (or 35/35/30 sometimes) and I'm fine on that. Note that I don't eat as much carbohydrate as the typical western diet, I avoid excessive amounts of any carbohydrate but there is a minimal level of carbohydrate intake that I just can't go below. And also eating too much unhealthy carb is probably just as bad as that leads to unstable blood sugar levels, i.e. too much carbs then a blood sugar crash. Personally, I wouldn't do anything ketogenic, that would be too low carb for me. However that does not mean I'll go to the other extreme and eat tons of carbs either.

    Also pay attention to vitamin D and healthy fat in general, that has a big impact on mental health. the whole reason why I stick to balanced macros is to ensure I get a moderate amount of everything that my body needs (I pay a lot of attention to micronutrients too, i.e. trying to eat as wide a variety of natural/clean food as I can). Anything that involves cutting out an entire food group I'd think would probably be bad for me. I definitely wouldn't cut out fat either, or go low fat. I simply ensure that the fats and carbs I eat are good quality healthy ones.

    Since following a balanced nutrition plan and working out regularly with heavy weights (i.e. 5-12 reps to failure kind of heavy) and ensuring that I get enough sunlight/daylight, that's improved my mental health a lot. I still have PTSD (seems to refuse to ever go away) but I feel a lot better generally and it's a lot more under control, and I don't currently feel depressed.

    thank you!
  • Firefox7275
    Firefox7275 Posts: 2,040 Member
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    i have read a lot of similar articles. the reason i guess i am wondering is because i had tried a Daniel fast in November which is opposite of ketogenic, no animal products and no refined sugar. I felt absolutley terrible, i lasted about two weeks and i had a mjor mood meltdown. I know it was related to the diet, so I thought I should do the opposite. So that is where i am at.

    Depends how you define opposite in this context. As a healthcare professional I'd argue the opposite of an highly restrictive, nutrient deficient diet (like a Daniel fast) is a nutrient dense diet containing a balance of all the food groups, NOT another highly restrictive, nutrient deficient diet (like *some* ketogenics). I'm not surprised you felt awful and had a major meltdown when starving your body.
  • Springfield_Rocks
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    i have read a lot of similar articles. the reason i guess i am wondering is because i had tried a Daniel fast in November which is opposite of ketogenic, no animal products and no refined sugar. I felt absolutley terrible, i lasted about two weeks and i had a mjor mood meltdown. I know it was related to the diet, so I thought I should do the opposite. So that is where i am at.

    Depends how you define opposite in this context. As a healthcare professional I'd argue the opposite of an highly restrictive, nutrient deficient diet (like a Daniel fast) is a nutrient dense diet containing a balance of all the food groups, NOT another highly restrictive, nutrient deficient diet (like *some* ketogenics). I'm not surprised you felt awful and had a major meltdown when starving your body.

    agreed.

    i think ketogenic is where the problem is as well. my terminology was misleading. trying to label something.

    i was thinking lots of veggies, fruits, meats, healthy fats, goat's milk.
  • Springfield_Rocks
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    i need to eliminate wheat, my doctor says i am intolerant to wheat. which is why the whole idea of dropping grains has come to me.
  • denezy
    denezy Posts: 573 Member
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    Not completely related, but I had to comment on the benefits of Vitamin D. I have noticed a major improvement in depression and anxiety after taking a Vitamin D supplement. I take 4,000 - 8,000 IU per day.