ketogenic diets and depression
Replies
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I did lots of research and decided to try it. I lost a little weight but not much. I was in keto according to the sticks for a little over 1 month. I did not carb up. I was fine but around week 3 I started to feel low energy. Irritable. After week 4 I decided that a balanced diet was just better for me. I lost the last 5lbs on a balanced high fiber, high protein, low-sugar diet plus strength training.
The only thing that has really lifted my chronic depression has been hard, regular exercise. But apparently everyone reacts differently to this diet so perhaps it will help you.0 -
agreed.
i think ketogenic is where the problem is as well. my terminology was misleading. trying to label something.
i was thinking lots of veggies, fruits, meats, healthy fats, goat's milk.
So more reduced carb but not extreme? Awesome if so. But try to make it balanced be careful how many food groups you eliminate, you don't mention oily fish nor any mineral/ fibre rich foods like nuts, seeds, cocoa if not beans and lentils (most are very low GI so very gentle on the blood sugar). By all means switch away from cow's milk and grains, just be sure to replace the nutrients you lose.
I have several closely linked mental health issues, lifestyle modification is what got me from being unable to work to as healthy and boundlessly energetic as a child. That was the reason I retrained in lifestyle healthcare! I was eating then unprocessed wholefoods, low glycaemic index so little wheat or potatoes, loads of omega-3s both long and short chain, limited saturated animal fats and omega-6s, too many supplements (micronutrients and antioxidant rich herbs). Exercising intensely four times a week. Had good results with clients since - not as clean as my diet but working on nutrient density including minerals and omega-3s and on exercise levels.0 -
Oh n=1 examples? Here's one
A Case of the Re-Emergence of Panic and Anxiety Symptoms After Initiation of a High-Protein, Very Low Carbohydrate Diet.
http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/47/2/178
http://www.ctsi.ucla.edu/education/files/view/training/docs/WadekarCS.pdf
Finally, someone with a brain0 -
I'm sorry I can't find the link to the study, but I read a great article on bipolar which talked about the swings. While science has been working hard to minimise impacts of the downswings, this article was about limiting upswings and that a high upswing will inevitably lead to a bad downswing. For people whose ups and downs are impacted by blood sugar or insulin, a ketogenic diet may reduce the swinging.
Everyone is different. If you meddle around with your diet or medication, always do it under a doctors supervision.
Some people are more sensitive to carbs than others. Some people can't be ketogenic on more than 25 carbs a day, some can be on 100+. If you've tried it once and it didn't work, try some of the other carb levels. Low carb diets also don't have to be ketogenic to have positive impacts on blood sugar and insulin.0 -
Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.
I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.
Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.
The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.
I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.
I have had much the same experience although working out was rough at first.
I have no idea if my moods are better due to ketosis alone or to ketosis giving me the energy to go work out, which is a known mood enhancer.
However my depression is not considered severe. In fact, it's sub-clinical, the doctor refused to diagnose me with it and instead opted for social phobia or anxiety or whatever they're calling it this week.
From everything I've read severe depression is completely different from mild depression and may respond to different things. Anything you decide to do probably should be decided with the advice of an expert who is familiar with your symptoms.
Edit: I don't think I used the word sub clinical right. Oh well.
I have been diagnosed with rapid cycling bipolar disorder and severe clinical depression. Before I started Atkins I attempted suicide several times and one of those times I slit my own throat.....yes, that severe.
I was then diagnosed with PCOS, hypo-thyroid and T2 diabetes. My Dr had me to start Atkins because she thought mess would make everything worse as that particular suicide attempt I was actually one an anti depressant .
When I switched to high fat, moderate protein and carbs primarily from vegetables I started feeling better, clearer thinking and had energy.
I then started going to the gym and that helped even more. When I got to the phase of Atkins where you add back in grains, legumes, starcher carbs such as potatoes my symptoms came back, which lead me to Paleo.
I have been suffering from major depression again before and during the holidays due to eating too much crappy food plus digestive issues.
No more splurging on sweets and grains for me.0 -
Oh n=1 examples? Here's one
A Case of the Re-Emergence of Panic and Anxiety Symptoms After Initiation of a High-Protein, Very Low Carbohydrate Diet.
http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/47/2/178
http://www.ctsi.ucla.edu/education/files/view/training/docs/WadekarCS.pdf
Finally, someone with a brain
That is very insulting to say considering the majority of us are speaking from our own personal experiences.
I have not heard anyone else that suffers from depression, anxiety or bipolar disorder when they have introduced a high fat, low carb way of eating to their body.
Quite the opposite happens.0 -
Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.
I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.
Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.
The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.
I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.
This is most definitely not peer reviewed.
Also, while adequate fat intake is necessary for all sorts of biological functions, this doesn't necessarily mean an incredibly high fat diet (such as ketogenic diets) are better.
My peers are reviewing it so it most definitely a peer reviewed study.
I would take the word of personal experience over any of these so called organizations that are paid very heftily by major corporations and pharmaceutical companies for the study to come out the way the payer requests.0 -
agreed.
i think ketogenic is where the problem is as well. my terminology was misleading. trying to label something.
i was thinking lots of veggies, fruits, meats, healthy fats, goat's milk.
So more reduced carb but not extreme? Awesome if so. But try to make it balanced be careful how many food groups you eliminate, you don't mention oily fish nor any mineral/ fibre rich foods like nuts, seeds, cocoa if not beans and lentils (most are very low GI so very gentle on the blood sugar). By all means switch away from cow's milk and grains, just be sure to replace the nutrients you lose.
I have several closely linked mental health issues, lifestyle modification is what got me from being unable to work to as healthy and boundlessly energetic as a child. That was the reason I retrained in lifestyle healthcare! I was eating then unprocessed wholefoods, low glycaemic index so little wheat or potatoes, loads of omega-3s both long and short chain, limited saturated animal fats and omega-6s, too many supplements (micronutrients and antioxidant rich herbs). Exercising intensely four times a week. Had good results with clients since - not as clean as my diet but working on nutrient density including minerals and omega-3s and on exercise levels.
wow! that's really encouraging to read. that sounds like something i am going to try.0 -
Oh n=1 examples? Here's one
A Case of the Re-Emergence of Panic and Anxiety Symptoms After Initiation of a High-Protein, Very Low Carbohydrate Diet.
http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/47/2/178
http://www.ctsi.ucla.edu/education/files/view/training/docs/WadekarCS.pdf
Finally, someone with a brain
rudeness not appreciated. be polite or stay off the thread.0 -
I lost all my weight being in slight ketosis---that is 85-100 carbs a day. I was in fat burning mode, it did nothing but make me full of energy and was never depressed. Although I do not have a depression issue to begin with.
But is there any diet out there that improves depression?0 -
This is the same for me! My doctor, after years of doing tests, studies, diet changes, fitness changes, etc has come to the conclusion that I have a metabolic "allergy" to processed carbs...veggies don't seem to bother me unless I go way over 100g in a day of them. Process carbs will have me retaining water like crazy as a buffer against the "allergen" and causes me to get depressed, fatigued, no energy etc...the first 2-3 days on a low carb lifestyle (about 45 g for me to lose weight and 60 g to maintain my weight) is kind of hard because I am still craving the carby sugary stuff...but after that, I can pass right on by cakes, ice cream, cookies, pizza etc without any issues at all! I even can go to a pizzeria with family and enjoy the wonderful full selection salad bars while they are eating pizza around me with no issues...but if I eat even one slice of pizza, my cravings for carbs/sugars go thru the roof and I end up over eating massively.
I do try to stick to healthier fats, but I love my cheese and cream (in my coffee), sour cream, etc and have no intentions of giving those up. I also like my bacon with my cheesy eggs. But I make sure I don't OVER DUE the bad fats and I pack in the veggies and moderate amounts of proteins.0 -
This is the same for me! My doctor, after years of doing tests, studies, diet changes, fitness changes, etc has come to the conclusion that I have a metabolic "allergy" to processed carbs...veggies don't seem to bother me unless I go way over 100g in a day of them. Process carbs will have me retaining water like crazy as a buffer against the "allergen" and causes me to get depressed, fatigued, no energy etc...the first 2-3 days on a low carb lifestyle (about 45 g for me to lose weight and 60 g to maintain my weight) is kind of hard because I am still craving the carby sugary stuff...but after that, I can pass right on by cakes, ice cream, cookies, pizza etc without any issues at all! I even can go to a pizzeria with family and enjoy the wonderful full selection salad bars while they are eating pizza around me with no issues...but if I eat even one slice of pizza, my cravings for carbs/sugars go thru the roof and I end up over eating massively.
I do try to stick to healthier fats, but I love my cheese and cream (in my coffee), sour cream, etc and have no intentions of giving those up. I also like my bacon with my cheesy eggs. But I make sure I don't OVER DUE the bad fats and I pack in the veggies and moderate amounts of proteins.
Darn, sorry, I meant to be quoting PaleoPath4Lyf post regarding how she feels on low carb diets.0 -
Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.
I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.
Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.
The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.
I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.
This is most definitely not peer reviewed.
Also, while adequate fat intake is necessary for all sorts of biological functions, this doesn't necessarily mean an incredibly high fat diet (such as ketogenic diets) are better.
My peers are reviewing it so it most definitely a peer reviewed study.
I would take the word of personal experience over any of these so called organizations that are paid very heftily by major corporations and pharmaceutical companies for the study to come out the way the payer requests.
Tinfoil hat much?0 -
Not sure if it is totally ketogenic, but I am doing the Atkins diet, I love it! I have lots of energy.
This is the low carb version I follow too...but I use the New Atkins for a New You approach that has increased veggetables now that fiber can be subtracted from total carb count etc.0 -
Since I started eating Keto / low carb, not only do I have much more energy and don't get the after-lunch-sleepys, I have found that my mood is much better. When I do slip and eat carbs / sugar, I find that I get very depressed. Not depressed because I ate bad, but just depressed about everything.
That's enough to keep me off of sugar and bad carbs!
I hate after lunch sleepies!0 -
has anybody here read any interesting information on this topic? i have read alot about low carb and its effect on serotonin levels, but seems mostly negative and from typical websites that are not pro keto.
i am not trolling. i have a severe sugar addiction and depression and i want some real advice backed up with literature.
i read this interesting blog, but it's old and i am not bipolar. http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.ca/2010/08/ketogenic-diets-and-bipolar-disorder-2.html
can anyone help me?
i am also working with my doctor so i won't just be trying out anything without checking with him as well. so no naggy nellies!
You don't need to go to a ketogenic diet (60 grams or less of carbs per day) in order to get your appetite under control. A much safer diet is 100-200 grams of carbs per day (with the higher amount for heavier exercise days). You will still get appetite control (especially if you cut out sugar) but your won't have the nasty stuff that comes with a ketogenic diet (some people have gotten quite ill from staying at 20 grams of carbs per day for an extended length of time. Check out what I posted to your other thread---it might really help you.0 -
Chocolate is good for depression. Avoid alcohol.
Alcohol is also a depressant---a no-no for anyone struggling with the blues.0 -
Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.
I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.
Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.
The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.
I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.
thank you! what kind of fat do you primarily eat?
can i add you as a friend and peek at your diary?
If you live in N. America, there's an oil called "Udo"s Oil" that I highly recommend--pricey but worth it. I find I only need a tablespoon a day (even though the label says to take up to three a day).0 -
This is all really interesting, thank you.0
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This is the same for me! My doctor, after years of doing tests, studies, diet changes, fitness changes, etc has come to the conclusion that I have a metabolic "allergy" to processed carbs...veggies don't seem to bother me unless I go way over 100g in a day of them. Process carbs will have me retaining water like crazy as a buffer against the "allergen" and causes me to get depressed, fatigued, no energy etc...the first 2-3 days on a low carb lifestyle (about 45 g for me to lose weight and 60 g to maintain my weight) is kind of hard because I am still craving the carby sugary stuff...but after that, I can pass right on by cakes, ice cream, cookies, pizza etc without any issues at all! I even can go to a pizzeria with family and enjoy the wonderful full selection salad bars while they are eating pizza around me with no issues...but if I eat even one slice of pizza, my cravings for carbs/sugars go thru the roof and I end up over eating massively.
I do try to stick to healthier fats, but I love my cheese and cream (in my coffee), sour cream, etc and have no intentions of giving those up. I also like my bacon with my cheesy eggs. But I make sure I don't OVER DUE the bad fats and I pack in the veggies and moderate amounts of proteins.
Your problem of bloating on processed carbs probably comes from the excessively high levels of sodium that most processed foods contain. They also contain a lot of sugar and MSG, which propels appetite (and MSG will cause bloat as well). The gliaden content in wheat (not gluten, GLIADEN) is also an addictive substance--that's why I don't eat any wheat in addition to avoiding sucrose. I only eat organic, 100% whole rye bread (sourdough-raised) because of the unique properties rye has (also they haven't messed with it like they have messed with wheat over the last couple of decades, because rye is not a very popular grain here). Rye has a unique fiber that expands in the G.I. tract and prevents hunger for a long time--it also steadies blood sugar levels so it doesn't give you the insulin spike that wheat does (which makes you SO hungry).0 -
Here is my n=1 peer reviewed study, conducted and studied by ME and ME alone.
I find that the High Fat / Low Carb ketogenic approach tremendously helps me with depression symptoms. I have lots of energy and actually feel like working out at the gym. I sleep better and I eat well.
Lots of fat, moderated protein and fill in the rest with vegetables.
The best thing to do is to try it for yourself. Become your own n=1 experiment and study yourself. Try it for 4-6 weeks and see if you have any improvements.
I do know that adequate fat intake is crucial for proper brain and other hormone functions.
I have had much the same experience although working out was rough at first.
I have no idea if my moods are better due to ketosis alone or to ketosis giving me the energy to go work out, which is a known mood enhancer.
However my depression is not considered severe. In fact, it's sub-clinical, the doctor refused to diagnose me with it and instead opted for social phobia or anxiety or whatever they're calling it this week.
From everything I've read severe depression is completely different from mild depression and may respond to different things. Anything you decide to do probably should be decided with the advice of an expert who is familiar with your symptoms.
Edit: I don't think I used the word sub clinical right. Oh well.
I have been diagnosed with rapid cycling bipolar disorder and severe clinical depression. Before I started Atkins I attempted suicide several times and one of those times I slit my own throat.....yes, that severe.
I was then diagnosed with PCOS, hypo-thyroid and T2 diabetes. My Dr had me to start Atkins because she thought mess would make everything worse as that particular suicide attempt I was actually one an anti depressant .
When I switched to high fat, moderate protein and carbs primarily from vegetables I started feeling better, clearer thinking and had energy.
I then started going to the gym and that helped even more. When I got to the phase of Atkins where you add back in grains, legumes, starcher carbs such as potatoes my symptoms came back, which lead me to Paleo.
I have been suffering from major depression again before and during the holidays due to eating too much crappy food plus digestive issues.
No more splurging on sweets and grains for me.
You have just demonstrated the old axiom, "You are what you eat." If only people would understand what food they need to eat in order to feel good physically and mentally, we wouldn't have but a fraction of people on psychotropic medication. We do not have Prozac deficiencies in this country---we have nourishing food and exercise deficiencies.0 -
has anybody here read any interesting information on this topic? i have read alot about low carb and its effect on serotonin levels, but seems mostly negative and from typical websites that are not pro keto.
i am not trolling. i have a severe sugar addiction and depression and i want some real advice backed up with literature.
i read this interesting blog, but it's old and i am not bipolar. http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.ca/2010/08/ketogenic-diets-and-bipolar-disorder-2.html
can anyone help me?
i am also working with my doctor so i won't just be trying out anything without checking with him as well. so no naggy nellies!
You don't need to go to a ketogenic diet (60 grams or less of carbs per day) in order to get your appetite under control. A much safer diet is 100-200 grams of carbs per day (with the higher amount for heavier exercise days). You will still get appetite control (especially if you cut out sugar) but your won't have the nasty stuff that comes with a ketogenic diet (some people have gotten quite ill from staying at 20 grams of carbs per day for an extended length of time. Check out what I posted to your other thread---it might really help you.
thanks, i will check it out. :-)0 -
There's also lots of ways to boost your seratonin naturally: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/serotonin-boosters/
There's a note in there on why you might struggle if you're eating *too* low carb.
If you're not a fish eater, you should take a big dose of Omega 3 and watch your Omega 6 intake.0 -
Had to dig this one out after reading about it. Not entirely related, but definitely interesting.
Relating to Schizophrenia and Gluten:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
"Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level."0 -
Had to dig this one out after reading about it. Not entirely related, but definitely interesting.
Relating to Schizophrenia and Gluten:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
"Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level."
Thank you for that, I'll pass it on to my husband, as his brother has paranoid schizophrenia. No idea if it'll work for him, but it's worth a try.0 -
Here's the thing about ketogenic diet and depression ... it's FABULOUS. Depression will totally go .... but ... and there's quite a big but
Your body is a dual-fuel mechanism. My friend John has a dual-fuel car: it will run on gas or propane: he just flicks a switch when he's running low on propane and it runs on gas.
We are the same. We can run on glucose or we can run on ketones. We have been humans for the last 2,000,000 years and we've only really been running on glucose for 10,000 years at most. Many of us have only been running on glucose for the last 50-60 years. And our brains run MUCH better on ketones. Back in 2009 I was in ketosis for most of the year (having been depressed for most of my adult life) and my wife noticed that I hadn't been depressed for ages.
But here comes the "but". The switch inside us happens automatically when our bodies run out of carbs (sugar). But it can take a while sometimes. So on Monday you quit eating all carbs and go on a strict ketogenic diet (and strict is important -- as someone I was reading the other day said, if you make up yur mind to go vacation in Hawaii, you really need to go the whole way ... you won't get any benefit from going half way!)
So your body quite quickly runs out of carbs. It has been used, all your life, to having a regular supply of carbs, so it starts flashing the low-fuel warning light. You start seeing pictures of cookies and candy everywhere. You drive past a gas station and you don't notice the price of gas you only notice that they also sell subs and have an offer on Coke.
But you have decided that this is IT. You're going to go for it. No carbs. So your brain runs out of fuel. You can't think straight, you get headaches (and these are headaches that Tylenol won't touch!) and you get the mother and father of all depressions.
Here's what you do. It's the same as if you were an alcoholic or a crack head going cold turkey. Get someone tough who loves you to send you to bed and make sure that you stay there. Get them to bring you eight 8-oz glasses of water a day. Eat half an avocado. Get them to fry you some bacon (but get them to check that it is NO SUGAR ADDED and isn't honey roast).
It will probably pass in 24-48 hours. Your body will give in and switch into ketosis and start producing ketones. Your headache will clear, your depression will go and you'll start to feel amazing. You'll probably decide you could do anything and you want to go for a five-mile run. DON'T DO IT. Go for a 20-minute walk. Tomorrow make it 25 minutes. Build up to an hour over two weeks.
And stick to it. If you come back OUT of ketosis, then next time you try, your body won't believe you and it will take longer to switch, and the head-achy depressed phase will take longer.
Get some Ketostix at the pharmacy and test first thing, mid-day and before you go to bed. If you are not firmly in ketosis, reduce the carbs, reduce the protein (your body can cheat by turning protein into carbs through a process called gluconeogenesis). And eat more fat. Best of all, get some MCT oil and use it for everything, except what you use coconut oil for.
Best of luck ...
James0 -
We are the same. We can run on glucose or we can run on ketones. We have been humans for the last 2,000,000 years and we've only really been running on glucose for 10,000 years at most. Many of us have only been running on glucose for the last 50-60 years. And our brains run MUCH better on ketones.
Can you substantiate any of the above? It sounds an awful like it has no basis in reality and is made up by a fanatical low carber0 -
After the first few days I always feel great from every point of view on a Keto diet, specially because in my case it stabilises my mood. I believe it works great for depression and anxiety! I am a big fan of this diet(even if I avoid using this word too often)
Catalin M
http://bigcathealthcoach.com/0 -
Bit of an old thread, but interesting to find. Thanks!0
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