my appointment with a "trainer" FEEDBACK PLZ!

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Replies

  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
    Whether we start arguing the 'science' or complete lack of it, we've established that the plan was not suited to you or your goals.

    A complete failure in the definition of a personal trainer.
  • Siege_Tank
    Siege_Tank Posts: 781 Member

    How does cardio burn muscle when my heart rate goes over 165 bpm??? I strength train, and alternate with cardio-- so I am unsure how this can occur.

    How will my body composition stay the same when I incorporate carbohydrates back into my diet? I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this one.

    Couple of things. When you are at a low body fat percentage, it is SO hard to reach that goal BF%. Your body's main fuel is Glucose - Carbs. When it has no carbs it MAKES them in a process called glucogenesis. Your body will chain together amino acids (from protein, either dietary or stored) with fatty acids and lipids from fat, (also either dietary or stored).

    If you have no carbs in you when you hit the afterburners during your workout, your body will start making its own fuel, the key to low carbing is to get your body to EAT it's own fat stores when you undergo glucogenesis. If you do high heart rate HIIT you will see more catabolic effects, and no amount of eaten protein can make up for the extreme energy needs that you have on the cellular level (won't bore you with the details, but ATP-ADP transfers), and you will see a reduction in stored muscle.

    So he is on some levels correct. If you want to get a shredded look, I would really recommend supplements. Find yourself some good BCAA's to take right before your workout, those will help give your body the proteins it needs to stay away from raiding muscle tissue - Creatine Monohydrate is one of the only proven supplements out there, And while the NCAA no longer provides that supplement for their athletes, they don't forbid it. It is one of the most studied and proven muscle building supplements out there.

    The last one is a good multivitamin. If you cut calories hard (-20% TDEE), you need to be sure that your diet is whole. Better safe than sorry in my book.

    Cardio only on your weightlifting days off (and stick to the steady state stuff), and when you lift, you need to lift HARD to shock your muscles into growth, give your body 2 or even 3 days off from hitting the same muscle group, and then lift HARD again. You should be getting close to failure near your tenth rep or so.

    Notice I didn't say "to failure". It's always best to leave a little in the tank, but you should honest to god walk away from a lift going whew, that was challenging.

    HIIT is a tool to be used by athletes looking to improve their conditioning and performance, like a wide receiver in football running down the field every play. It's not such a good tool for a heavy linebacker looking to have a lot of weight to hold the line. HIIT does nothing for body composition. Only in those who are overweight is it an effective tool at triggering more fat loss at a plateau, or whatever the rationale may be.
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member

    How does cardio burn muscle when my heart rate goes over 165 bpm??? I strength train, and alternate with cardio-- so I am unsure how this can occur.

    How will my body composition stay the same when I incorporate carbohydrates back into my diet? I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this one.

    Couple of things. When you are at a low body fat percentage, it is SO hard to reach that goal BF%. Your body's main fuel is Glucose - Carbs. When it has no carbs it MAKES them in a process called glucogenesis. Your body will chain together amino acids (from protein, either dietary or stored) with fatty acids and lipids from fat, (also either dietary or stored).

    If you have no carbs in you when you hit the afterburners during your workout, your body will start making its own fuel, the key to low carbing is to get your body to EAT it's own fat stores when you undergo glucogenesis. If you do high heart rate HIIT you will see more catabolic effects, and no amount of eaten protein can make up for the extreme energy needs that you have on the cellular level (won't bore you with the details, but ATP-ADP transfers), and you will see a reduction in stored muscle.

    So he is on some levels correct. If you want to get a shredded look, I would really recommend supplements. Find yourself some good BCAA's to take right before your workout, those will help give your body the proteins it needs to stay away from raiding muscle tissue - Creatine Monohydrate is one of the only proven supplements out there, And while the NCAA no longer provides that supplement for their athletes, they don't forbid it. It is one of the most studied and proven muscle building supplements out there.

    The last one is a good multivitamin. If you cut calories hard (-20% TDEE), you need to be sure that your diet is whole. Better safe than sorry in my book.

    Cardio only on your weightlifting days off (and stick to the steady state stuff), and when you lift, you need to lift HARD to shock your muscles into growth, give your body 2 or even 3 days off from hitting the same muscle group, and then lift HARD again. You should be getting close to failure near your tenth rep or so.

    Notice I didn't say "to failure". It's always best to leave a little in the tank, but you should honest to god walk away from a lift going whew, that was challenging.

    HIIT is a tool to be used by athletes looking to improve their conditioning and performance, like a wide receiver in football running down the field every play. It's not such a good tool for a heavy linebacker looking to have a lot of weight to hold the line. HIIT does nothing for body composition. Only in those who are overweight is it an effective tool at triggering more fat loss at a plateau, or whatever the rationale may be.

    I think you may have quoted the wrong questions.
  • Siege_Tank
    Siege_Tank Posts: 781 Member

    I think you may have quoted the wrong questions.

    Um no.. Actually I didn't really answer the second question.. thanks!!

    1. Higher heart rates have a higher metabolic cost for our bodies on the cellular level - If you read my above post, your body will use protein and fat to use as glucose, our body's fuel.. when your heart rate goes that high, much greater supplies of energy are needed than what we have in our bloodstream after a meal (in the form of protein and fats), and our bodies will make glucose out of fat and protein.. any protein. muscle tissue.

    Unless you're eating a steak while HIIT-ing.. You'll risk losing muscle mass.

    2. Once you get to maintenance, your body won't store any extra fat if you don't eat more calories per day than you need. You can't gain fat if you don't overeat on healthy food.

    Once you start eating maintenance, you'll have to watch out for days where you overeat. At such a low bodyfat % a hundred extra calories per day over what you need can equal fat being put back on over the course of a week or two.

    It's a lifelong change, but it still needs to be monitored when your goal bodyfat percentage is so low. The price of magazine cover sexy is eternal vigilance.

    And Photoshop. =)
  • Barbellerella
    Barbellerella Posts: 1,838 Member
    I hate to say this, but he is correct. This is part of the basis of the TNT Diet for example. It works very well for shaving body fat. Worked wonders for me...however, it's a short-term thing, as the trainer noted. Also, cardio does burn muscle. This is one of the first posts I think a trainer was actually correct for a change. I would say go back to him ASAP. If you don't believe this, I recommend doing some research. The only thing I would add to what he said is you also need to get a good amount of fiber as well. What sucks about this plan for most people is that this means you basically remove all fruits and virtually all carbs, which is really tough to do for most people. Good luck!
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  • zaph0d
    zaph0d Posts: 1,172 Member
    I think "um no" is a good summary.
  • Nissi51
    Nissi51 Posts: 381 Member
    RUN!!!!!!!
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    There are varying degrees of 'this is BS' to most of the suggestions - but basically, taken as a whole, for your goals - it is cr@pola.
  • Muldactus
    Muldactus Posts: 6,972 Member
    I know it doesn't help as much, but my suggestion would be to look around at other friends and posters on MFP who either have the body you're hoping to build to, or have been through a similar rebuild. Then ask them what worked for them and where they got their information. I've never spoken with Crazy4lulu personally, but I'd guess friending her was a great start - when it comes to putting your money where your mouth is, it's pretty obvious she knows her stuff. (Not that I'm stalking her or anything :blushing: )

    If you're not sure or unhappy with the dietary advice he gave you, then you might consider asking a dietician or nutritionist. Most trainers only have a passing familiarity with that stuff, so they regurgitate what they've read in body-builder magazines and assume that's what's good for the goose is good for the gander without taking any time to figure out how to Personalize the information - which as someone pointed out earlier is the definition of failure in a personal trainer.
  • DanaDark
    DanaDark Posts: 2,187 Member
    Sigh.

    You want to lose body fat and gain some muscle in targeted areas.

    So, number 1 is diet. High protein helps build and retain muscle. Carbohydrates will provide fuel during the training session. Fats are important for vitamin absorption, hormone regulation and the nervous system.

    Shooting for 1g of protein per pound of lean body mass will be more than sufficient protein for your goals. On average, this is around 30%.

    On weight lifting days, do a caloric surplus. Roughly 250 calories over maintenance. On rest days, do a deficit of 250 calories. Goal is to make your weekly overall calories at maintenance. So if you train 3 days a week, then 3 days you are in surplus, 3 days in deficit, and 1 day at maintenance.

    What you are going for is Body Re-composition.

    YOU DO NOT need ANY supplements. Anyone that suggests so is simply wrong. PERIOD. Supplements should only be used if you notice a prolonged, chronic deficit of a particular item. If you get enough protein from food, then a protein shake WILL NOT help at all. EVER. If you get enough Vitamin C, extra vitamin C will do NOTHING. In fact, fat soluble vitamins can become toxic if you intake too many of a prolonged time.

    As your heart rate goes up, the percentage of energy burned coming from fat decreases. So, it is true that a higher heart rate will burn less fat in PERCENTAGE... but the overall fat loss is GREATER. 75% of 100 is 75, but 65% of 150 is 97.5 for example. Lower percentage does not mean less overall. So long as you have adequate dietary protein and are lifting weights, you do not need to worry about this issue AT ALL.

    Low carb will reduce weight quickly. IT WILL NOT do anything with your fat levels. Your body holds onto a number of carbs in your muscle for quick energy sources. If your carb intake gets too low, your body will use these carbs for energy. From there, the water needed to store those carbs is no longer needed and is flushed. LOTS of initial water weight loss.

    Overall, the trainer has a bunch of advice/information that is only half the story. It shows he has failed to understand the science and reasoning behind that specific advice. Maybe for some that advice is suitable for their goals. For you, it is absolutely incorrect for your goals.
  • vjohn04
    vjohn04 Posts: 2,276 Member
    Thanks for your feedback, y'all!

    I'm just going to keep doing what I've been doing, since the a good bit of your of feedback I see leans to my current method.
  • lacurandera1
    lacurandera1 Posts: 8,083 Member
    Th eonly thing he semed to get right was that weight lifting was pretty important. :)
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
    Phew! I was starting to wonder WTF was going on here.
  • jayche
    jayche Posts: 1,128 Member
    He sounds like a misinformed "bro" trainer. I'd stay away.
  • upgetupgetup
    upgetupgetup Posts: 749 Member
    I too have heard of those methods for cutting. I think he might have suggested it because if your pic's current (and, of you), you're ALREADY pretty fit and lean, and those are the sorts of things people in your current condition do to lose more fat. And that's what you told this guy your goal was.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    There are varying degrees of 'this is BS' to most of the suggestions - but basically, taken as a whole, for your goals - it is cr@pola.
    ^ Exactly. This trainer sounds like he has his PhD in Broscience. Save your 74 bucks - he's peddling garbage.