Anabolic Steroids: A Discussion
BaneOfMFPsExistence
Posts: 210
Anabolic Steroids: A Discussion
A friend of mine pulled me aside at the gym the other day. We share a common desire to shorten our necks and move large amounts of heavy metal disks in the never-ending quest to find our inner-caveman.
He's a young guy, 25 (which to me, is nearly prepubescent). He's massively built. He's a little shorter than I am, and easily pushing 260 pounds, all muscle.
Over the years at the gym he and I have had conversations about our careers, working-out, martial arts, etc. That particular day, he asked for my input on the legal ramifications of anabolic steroids pursuant to the recent downfall of various sports figures, including Armstrong.
He was very open about his use of the drug, and I believe he was fishing for me to either affirm or deny my position on my use, thereof. (It's kinda like the meathead-version of two pot-heads trying to figure out if the other is “cool.”)
It is common knowledge and widely known that I do not have many vices, at all.
- I don't drink.
- I don't smoke.
- I don't use illegal drugs of any nature, whatsoever.
It is also common knowledge that despite the fact I don't personally indulge as such, I certainly have no issue with those that do. (I have many, many friends who aren't very reserved when it comes to “partying.”)
All this said, he asked me about the legal argument associated with the use of anabolic steroids.
My short answer was, “Since it's illegal, I don't use them... for that reason. My family, career and practice aren't worth the risk. That being said, I do spend a fortune on LEGAL supplements at GNC.”
I continued by explaining that in truth, I'm beefy enough. If anything, I need to lean down. Muscle is extremely dense, and not nearly as conducive to martial arts / fighting / combatives as most people might think.
It was at this point, my ribeye-with-feet friend suddenly became a scholar of law... “Why are they illegal? They don't make you intoxicated like beer. They don't really hurt you, compared to alcohol or crack. All they do is help you build muscle... which is f---ing healthy!! What's the issue? ”
Honestly, I didn't have a good answer. (Which is hard for me to admit, btw.)
Anabolic steroids, to the best of my knowledge, are a controlled substance. I'm guessing the government saw need to control the distribution of same, because abuse of such substances could lead to bodily injury, death, etc.
But, by meaty-companion did make a valid point... What's the real issue?
Steroid users are just trying to get bigger, better and beefier. There are side-effects that could lead to organ damage or death... but no more so than alcohol.
Sky-diving can lead to a s**t-ton of internal organ damage and death, yet it's very legal.
Thus, the question and debate... Why are anabolic steroids illegal? And should they be?
(Disclaimer: I am NOT advocating the use of steroids, at all. I just like to argue about s--t like this.)
A friend of mine pulled me aside at the gym the other day. We share a common desire to shorten our necks and move large amounts of heavy metal disks in the never-ending quest to find our inner-caveman.
He's a young guy, 25 (which to me, is nearly prepubescent). He's massively built. He's a little shorter than I am, and easily pushing 260 pounds, all muscle.
Over the years at the gym he and I have had conversations about our careers, working-out, martial arts, etc. That particular day, he asked for my input on the legal ramifications of anabolic steroids pursuant to the recent downfall of various sports figures, including Armstrong.
He was very open about his use of the drug, and I believe he was fishing for me to either affirm or deny my position on my use, thereof. (It's kinda like the meathead-version of two pot-heads trying to figure out if the other is “cool.”)
It is common knowledge and widely known that I do not have many vices, at all.
- I don't drink.
- I don't smoke.
- I don't use illegal drugs of any nature, whatsoever.
It is also common knowledge that despite the fact I don't personally indulge as such, I certainly have no issue with those that do. (I have many, many friends who aren't very reserved when it comes to “partying.”)
All this said, he asked me about the legal argument associated with the use of anabolic steroids.
My short answer was, “Since it's illegal, I don't use them... for that reason. My family, career and practice aren't worth the risk. That being said, I do spend a fortune on LEGAL supplements at GNC.”
I continued by explaining that in truth, I'm beefy enough. If anything, I need to lean down. Muscle is extremely dense, and not nearly as conducive to martial arts / fighting / combatives as most people might think.
It was at this point, my ribeye-with-feet friend suddenly became a scholar of law... “Why are they illegal? They don't make you intoxicated like beer. They don't really hurt you, compared to alcohol or crack. All they do is help you build muscle... which is f---ing healthy!! What's the issue? ”
Honestly, I didn't have a good answer. (Which is hard for me to admit, btw.)
Anabolic steroids, to the best of my knowledge, are a controlled substance. I'm guessing the government saw need to control the distribution of same, because abuse of such substances could lead to bodily injury, death, etc.
But, by meaty-companion did make a valid point... What's the real issue?
Steroid users are just trying to get bigger, better and beefier. There are side-effects that could lead to organ damage or death... but no more so than alcohol.
Sky-diving can lead to a s**t-ton of internal organ damage and death, yet it's very legal.
Thus, the question and debate... Why are anabolic steroids illegal? And should they be?
(Disclaimer: I am NOT advocating the use of steroids, at all. I just like to argue about s--t like this.)
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Replies
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I've always felt that alcohol, which I do partake in moderation, should be illegal if steroids and pot are. The side effects are much more damaging and it is hardly regulated. Of course there are side effects to steroid use, there are side effects to many legal supplements as well. My opinion as to why steroids are illegal, besides the obvious "partent state" position of the state/government, is it is viewed as an unnatural way to be stronger or "beefier". The PED issue in sports shows how irrational people are when it comes to "how" people have won or built their statistics. My personal opinion is steroids should be legal, taxed, regulated and pushed to be used under doctor supervision.0
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I'm rather sick of everything-under-the-sun being banned.. or at least the attempts, thereof. I don't understand why everyone feels compelled to "save me" from... everything.0
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My viewpoint is simply - legal or not - where is the pride in building muscle mass via steriods. Building real strength by natural means does more for the self esteem in addition to knowing what you have built physically is yours and by your own efforts.
If there was a drug that would enable me to kick into a handstand easily, rather than face the fear of going upside down, the strength I need to build to hold a stable pose and the hours of dedication to the practice, I wouldn't take it - legal or no. Some things mean more when they are honestly earned.0 -
I see your point, but that's analogous to condemning you for sending an email, rather than handwriting a letter and personally walking 800 miles to deliver it to the recipient...My viewpoint is simply - legal or not - where is the pride in building muscle mass via steriods. Building real strength by natural means does more for the self esteem in addition to knowing what you have built physically is yours and by your own efforts.
If there was a drug that would enable me to kick into a handstand easily, rather than face the fear of going upside down, the strength I need to build to hold a stable pose and the hours of dedication to the practice, I wouldn't take it - legal or no. Some things mean more when they are honestly earned.
...Which would likely be met with a stonemason saying, " A REAL MAN would chisel the message into granite, then walk that slab of rock 800 miles, up hill, both ways..."
Very subjective.0 -
Speaking strictly in terms of legality, I can't understand (at this point) how steroids harm anyone who does not use them, whereas alcohol use kills non drinkers regularly.
Having no personal interest in steroids, I'm actually not well educated on their safety or lack of.
Good post.0 -
Congress banned steroids because of baseball0
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While it is true that alcohol does a tremendous amount of societal damage, it is a shame that the lessons learned from prohibition have not been applied to the war on drugs. Instead, we spend billions fighting various designated substances that will forever be readily available and in demand rather than educating, regulating and taxing. I remain cautiously optimistic that ultimately we will see more legalization over time. Like the OP, however, I do not use illegal drugs and have no desire to start. I do drink in moderation.0
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Very subjective.
I agree but those subjective things like honour, pride in sweat, the feeling of having done a hard session and seeing the muscle build and the fat reduce, my first real in the middle of the room handstand, etc, etc are all subjectivities that make life worth living.
How many people would still want to build a muscular steroid built body if those subjecticities were taken out of the process? I personally wouldn't.
Sweat and glory are subjective, but I would argue they are essential to life.0 -
i can't speculate as to why steroids are illegal except by presuming that the government gets some type of benefit from the manufacturers of what harmful substances they allow to be legal that they do not get from the manufacturers of the illegal ones. cigarettes and alcohol are okay, but marijuana isn't. even though it doesn't kill anyone and is likely no more harmful than cigarettes, no more intoxicating than alcohol. somewhere, someone isn't making any money off of it. same with steroids, i'd bet.0
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Well, my POV may be slightly different as in the UK they are legal - to buy (from abroad) for your own personal use. It is illegal to sell or give away to anyone here. It is also illegal to buy them from anyone here (hence why they're bought from overseas) People still do of course, because it's likely cheaper and / or easier for them.
My opinion is that I couldn't care less who decides to use them if it's for themselves only. I won't ever use them, and I wouldn't want a partner of mine using them (for health reasons) I also like the pride in being completely natural. If however, other people decide to use them, and I do know people who use them, then I suppose that's their choice.
Also, it's not as simple to say that it's only to build muscle therefore it's healthy. Some people have underlying health issues they know nothing about, and this is one area where steroids may pose a serious health risk to them. As well as this, there is a problem with several people (usually the ones who end up dying of it) of ABUSE rather than USE. I'm not at all saying that they are healthy in smaller doses, but there is a "required" dosage. The people who are as sensible as you can possibly be, stick to these doses and train hard, listening to their body for warning signs of any issues that might arise. Then there are those who just want to get big, and put little effort in. They *wrongfully* assume steroids are the be all and end all, end up taking **** loads of the stuff thinking that it'll be some miracle muscle-builder, and then when you hear in the news about some kid dying from steroid use, they get an even worse rep.
Just thought I'd add: I don't agree with steroids in sports, unless there are specific categories specifically for users. I know that in bodybuilding they have natural comps and comps where it's not drug tested.0 -
I'm not arguing one way or another if they should or should not be legal. But I did find your friends comment a bit ironic, as I'll explain later.
If you work with the philosophy that if something only hurts the user it should be legal, then steroids should be legal. Unlike some other controlled substances, they do not have collateral damage to those around the user.
However, in society today, substances are also controlled that only damage the user for a variety of reasons. One of those is that enough users would fail to understand or not be able to understand the damage they are doing to themselves. Truthfully, your friends argument could be used in support of this.
“Why are they illegal? They don't make you intoxicated like beer. They don't really hurt you, compared to alcohol or crack. All they do is help you build muscle... which is f---ing healthy!! What's the issue? ”
No, they do more than help you build muscle. They have significant risk,. even when used conservatively. Some people, particularly younger ones, who see the positive strength and performance results can get lured into the "ALL they do is help you build muscle, with is healthy" attitude. Don't see the danger and the likelihood of using conservatively goes down, and the risk goes up.
Here are some of the risks, from the linked article below. Obviously these are not universal side effects, but possible damage.
Men - Although anabolic steroids are derived from a male sex hormone, men who take them may actually experience a "feminization" effect along with a decrease in normal male sexual function. Some possible effects include: •Reduced sperm count
•Impotence
•Development of breasts
•Shrinking of the testicles
•Difficulty or pain while urinating
Women - On the other hand, women often experience a "masculinization" effect from anabolic steroids, including the following:
•Facial hair growth
•Deepened voice
•Breast reduction
•Menstrual cycle changes
With continued use of anabolic steroids, both sexes can experience the following effects, which range from the merely unsightly to the life endangering. They include: •Acne
•Bloated appearance
•Rapid weight gain
•Clotting disorders
•Liver damage
•Premature heart attacks and strokes
•Elevated cholesterol levels
•Weakened tendons
Special dangers to adolescents
Anabolic steroids can halt growth prematurely in adolescents. "What happens is that steroids close the growth centers in a kid's bones", says Dr. Wadler. "Once these growth plates are closed, they cannot reopen so adolescents that take too many steroids may end up shorter than they should have been."
Behavioral side effects
According to Dr. Wadler, anabolic steroids can cause severe mood swings. "People's psychological states can run the gamut." says Wadler. "They can go from bouts of depression or extreme irritability to feelings of invincibility and outright aggression, commonly called "'roid rage. This is a dangerous state beyond mere assertiveness."
http://espn.go.com/special/s/drugsandsports/steroids.html0 -
Being married to an ex body builder (ex steroid user) the first thing is that it is a very expensive `hobby`
2nd it causes lots of mood swings (to put it mildly) there are so many anabolics etc so I am clumping a lot into this short version of behaviour/depression
3rd we have known a lot of people die very young from heart problems etc
4th it is not a legal `high`
5th if you want to work your body then do it sensibly
6th it`s your life do as you please0 -
i know very little on the topic but i had a friend who was attempting to obtain a certain look and started using steroids and HGH to "cut" weight, i would imagine that these chemicals would put a lot of strain on your body. The human body needs time to adapt and to work up to certain things...
I believe that it is illegal because there are so many people out there who are always looking for "quick" fixes to obtain their desired goal. It is most likely because of these people who refuse to get educated and use these substances properly that the government is attempting to protect from their own stupidity.
I would never use them or put down another person who made the choice to use them but i definitely think that its not good for your body and if your goal is health... well then your doing it wrong....0 -
As a guy with total test in the high 200s, I wish the laws were different too.0
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Your friend has it twisted, steroids aren't healthy.
That said, I believe it's a personal decision for each individual person to make. Honestly don't see the point unless you plan on stepping on an IFBB stage and been reached your genetic potential naturally.0 -
Very subjective.
I agree but those subjective things like honour, pride in sweat, the feeling of having done a hard session and seeing the muscle build and the fat reduce, my first real in the middle of the room handstand, etc, etc are all subjectivities that make life worth living.
How many people would still want to build a muscular steroid built body if those subjecticities were taken out of the process? I personally wouldn't.
Sweat and glory are subjective, but I would argue they are essential to life.
You still need to put in the effort if using steroids - muscle needs to be broken down and repaired - the process is the same. They do allow for benefits over those that do not use them, mainly with size gains and recovery, that I am not denying - but you cannot just take them and see results without putting in the effort.
OP: to me it is like the 'why are alcohol and cigarettes legal but pot not' argument. I am not saying one or the other should be legal or illegal, but there are inconsistencies. The inconsistencies imo are driven much by social acceptability, politics and money.
I think another issue is that there are more immediate concerns on usage and health. You can take steroids in a 'healthy' and relatively non harmful manner - but many do not. I would imagine that there is an issue with prescribing steroids by doctors who should be practicing under the premise of 'do no harm'. If you do not need steroids for a medical condition, then from a health perspective, they are not beneficial and so any possible negative side effects would tip the scale - and there are some. In other words, from a health perspective, there are no pros and only cons and as such I am not sure how a doctor could justify prescribing them.0 -
Congress banned steroids because of baseball
This.
The American AAS ban is purely because of sports and a few extremely outdated and fraudulent "studies". It was propaganda, nothing more.0 -
Come to the U.K0
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I'm just going to answer the OP's question and not get all 'preachy' and long winded.
Like some of the friends you describe, I indulge in several vices...albeit moderately. However, I choose not to use anabolic/androgenic compounds, nor pro-hormonal compounds of any kind...simply for the satisfaction of being 'all-natural'. Have I used other products that would offer an arguer an angle to exploit contradiction? (whey protein isolates, nitric oxide and creatine enhancers) Absolutely, I have and probably will continue to supplement with in the future. But I think the bottom line for me comes down to taking my genetic potential to its limits...and learning to find contentment with that.
In closing. This thread was well phrased and executed, kudo's to you OP. May this not be completely desecrated by ignorant trolls, or fools of another variant.0 -
Very subjective.
I agree but those subjective things like honour, pride in sweat, the feeling of having done a hard session and seeing the muscle build and the fat reduce, my first real in the middle of the room handstand, etc, etc are all subjectivities that make life worth living.
How many people would still want to build a muscular steroid built body if those subjecticities were taken out of the process? I personally wouldn't.
Sweat and glory are subjective, but I would argue they are essential to life.
i dont think you understand how steroids work. maybe read up on them?
as for the OP question i think they should be legal.0 -
My viewpoint is simply - legal or not - where is the pride in building muscle mass via steriods. Building real strength by natural means does more for the self esteem in addition to knowing what you have built physically is yours and by your own efforts.
If there was a drug that would enable me to kick into a handstand easily, rather than face the fear of going upside down, the strength I need to build to hold a stable pose and the hours of dedication to the practice, I wouldn't take it - legal or no. Some things mean more when they are honestly earned.
I agree. with this. Not to mention when it comes to sports those that didn't want to take steroids would then have to in order to compete with the ones that are.
And steroids are very unhealthy.
As far as alcohol being legal goes . . . it's way too engrained in our society for it to be done away with. Prohibition proved that years ago and it's happening in the States with marijuana.0 -
GorillaEsq! Welcome back!0
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Congress banned steroids because of baseball
This.
The American AAS ban is purely because of sports and a few extremely outdated and fraudulent "studies". It was propaganda, nothing more.
True.0 -
I personally prefer not to ingest anything with such side effects as steroids. I'm on a multi-vitamin, whey protein, fat burner, and a N.O. enhancer. After I finish this bottle of fat burner (liquid clenbutrx hardcore) I'll start on creatine. Nothing there really has any side effects except maybe the fat burner and I experience no side effects from it.
I understand the allure of steroids as well as the other "tricks of the trade". I just don't want to gain my muscles with steroids. I'm not against anybody who does though, as it still takes hard work and dedication to get muscle gains. You can't take steroids, sit on the couch watching Family Guy and get big. I do understand having a level playing field when it comes to pro sports as it's not fair to expect other athletes to take a drug in order to be competitive.
If your friend ever decides to stop taking steroids he may have a lot of unwanted side effects, such as NO TESTOSTERONE PRODUCTION! He would be best to see a doctor and explain that he's on illegal steroids and wants to cycle off healthy. The doctor may have a trick or two up his sleeve to hopefully get his body to start producing testosterone again. Plus, it may behoove him to have some tests done to see if he's experiencing any damage, such as liver damage. I've known a few people who were a wreck after getting off steroids, but heck, they had developed health issues on them and had no choice but to stop.0 -
I think they're only illegal because of the use in competitive sports. Its unfair to have some people get a competitive edge using steroids while someone else may not want to use them.
It would suck for lets say an olympic athlete who wants to compete naturally to have to go up against other people using steroids.
In a situation like that then everyone competing is forced to use steroids even if they don't like the idea of putting drugs in their bodies.
As for the general population, they should be legal but still controlled. It wouldn't be a good idea to have them so easily accessible to teens or young adults who are still developing. It would be great to use them under the supervision of a doctor, especially with injuries and speeding up recovery though.0 -
I think they're only illegal because of the use in competitive sports. Its unfair to have some people get a competitive edge using steroids while someone else may not want to use them.
It would suck for lets say an olympic athlete who wants to compete naturally to have to go up against other people using steroids.
In a situation like that then everyone competing is forced to use steroids even if they don't like the idea of putting drugs in their bodies.
As for the general population, they should be legal but still controlled. It wouldn't be a good idea to have them so easily accessible to teens or young adults who are still developing. It would be great to use them under the supervision of a doctor, especially with injuries and speeding up recovery though.
victoria what a load of tosh!
Do you understand the whole `cabaret` of steroids?0 -
I think they're only illegal because of the use in competitive sports. Its unfair to have some people get a competitive edge using steroids while someone else may not want to use them.
It would suck for lets say an olympic athlete who wants to compete naturally to have to go up against other people using steroids.
In a situation like that then everyone competing is forced to use steroids even if they don't like the idea of putting drugs in their bodies.
As for the general population, they should be legal but still controlled. It wouldn't be a good idea to have them so easily accessible to teens or young adults who are still developing. It would be great to use them under the supervision of a doctor, especially with injuries and speeding up recovery though.
Exactly.0 -
I think they're only illegal because of the use in competitive sports. Its unfair to have some people get a competitive edge using steroids while someone else may not want to use them.
It would suck for lets say an olympic athlete who wants to compete naturally to have to go up against other people using steroids.
In a situation like that then everyone competing is forced to use steroids even if they don't like the idea of putting drugs in their bodies.
As for the general population, they should be legal but still controlled. It wouldn't be a good idea to have them so easily accessible to teens or young adults who are still developing. It would be great to use them under the supervision of a doctor, especially with injuries and speeding up recovery though.
victoria what a load of tosh!
Do you understand the whole `cabaret` of steroids?
Would you care to elaborate? (I'm not sure what tosh means either actually)0 -
The issue I have with this is the impact on professional and semiprofessional sports. I would not want my son, if he wants to be an athlete, to be forced to use them in order to compete with other guys in his sport. If they are legal, that's not a hard reality to imagine. If he's talented enough to compete at a semipro or pro level and willing to put in the dedication and hard work, he shouldn't be forced to inject substances that cause irreparable harm to himself in order to be competitive.
Aside from that, I don't care too much what an individual guy or gal does with them.0 -
Very subjective.
I agree but those subjective things like honour, pride in sweat, the feeling of having done a hard session and seeing the muscle build and the fat reduce, my first real in the middle of the room handstand, etc, etc are all subjectivities that make life worth living.
How many people would still want to build a muscular steroid built body if those subjecticities were taken out of the process? I personally wouldn't.
Sweat and glory are subjective, but I would argue they are essential to life.
i dont think you understand how steroids work. maybe read up on them?
as for the OP question i think they should be legal.
Thanks. I made a point of reading up on them as you suggested. From what I have read, I certainly won't be going down that path and I feel they should be illegal on health grounds at least.
The point has been made that a steroid user only harms themselves. That point is not true as those who damage their health through steroid misuse then become a burden on the nation's health network, which we all pay for in one way or another.0
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