Really just tired of the lies....
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alyssamiller77
Posts: 891 Member
Has anyone else noticed that the more controversial (and therefore usually most active) threads on these forums are the ones where people insist on speaking in absolutes and pushing their beliefs on everyone else? Are people on MFP really so ignorant or arrogant that they believe the only way to accomplish the goals that we have in common is their way and no other? The age old adage "there's more than one way to skin a cat" applies to so many things in life and indeed applies to fitness and health goals. If there's one thing I've learned over the many years that I've been educating myself on fitness and diet it's that the body remains a mysterious and marvelous machine. It is such a complex meshing of systems that to try and make any universal statement about any of the complex processes in the body is futile at best.
Indeed I've learned that when it comes to fitness and diet, the people to avoid most diligently are those that tell you they've found *THE* answer and this is it. Those hocking their latest fitness contraption always tell you how great and revolutionary it is and point to the "wasted time and effort" involved in their competitors equipment. Those pushing the latest diet approach always seem to be telling us how other diet programs are flawed and will never work. I run from these stories like the plague.
Yet here on MFP, where the very site itself promotes a balanced approach to improving our diet and developing a lifestyle of fitness, we still have the people that insist on pushing their approach that worked for them as *THE* end-all be-all holy grail of solutions to diet and fitness. For some reason these people cannot find room in their mind to understand that many approaches work, each and every single one has their own advantages and disadvantages, and no one answer applies to all of us universally.
So without further ado, here's my list of the lies I'm tired of hearing:
1. Your not serious about strength training if you're not doing squats and dead lifts -> Not true, I know a few professional personal trainers and strength trainers who never use either in their workout plans and they have some clients that are very impressive. Personally, I've had a solid focus for the last year and a half on strength and mass building and without doing a single deadlift and with squats only a very tiny portion of my workout plan I've got some awesome results.
2. You must eat clean to get down to a low Body Fat % and develop a 6-pack -> Hogwash. I've never eaten clean a day in my life. I enjoy processed foods, foods with chemicals, foods made with white flour, and even fast food. Yet here I sit with 9.7% bodyfat and a respectable six pack that's easily visible.
3. Your need to drink plain water to hydrate properly -> Oh gawd, that dammed water debate. No I can drink my crystal light, Aquafina flavor splash, Coke Zero, Gatorade and milk and somehow I have no problem remaining fully hydrated.
4. Carbs make you fat, sugars make you fat, xxxx makes you fat. You have to give them up to get thin -> Again, complete crap. I've not given up ANY FOOD in my lifestyle change and yet I'm at the 9.7% Bodyfat I mentioned above. Instead learning to eat in moderation and balance has been my key. Low Carb/No Carb diets do work, sure. So do diets like mine that let you eat whatever you want as long as you follow the plan.
I'm sure I could go on with a few hundred examples but I think most get the point. Educate yourselves. When you insist that your way is the only proper way to do things and that anyone not doing it your way is foolish, it is you who ultimately looks the fool. If anyone on this forum tells you in no uncertain terms that *this* is the only way then I'd be very skeptical of what they're telling you. Share your experiences, offer tips that helped you, but drop the arrogance that makes you believe you've found the magic solution that everyone should follow and which makes you judge those that have not chosen your path as sadly unaware of the horrible choices they're making. Instead be aware that many are well aware of the choices you've made and have instead made choices that have worked for them. Stop insisting they're doing it wrong or thinking of them as ignorant fools for not following your directions.
Indeed I've learned that when it comes to fitness and diet, the people to avoid most diligently are those that tell you they've found *THE* answer and this is it. Those hocking their latest fitness contraption always tell you how great and revolutionary it is and point to the "wasted time and effort" involved in their competitors equipment. Those pushing the latest diet approach always seem to be telling us how other diet programs are flawed and will never work. I run from these stories like the plague.
Yet here on MFP, where the very site itself promotes a balanced approach to improving our diet and developing a lifestyle of fitness, we still have the people that insist on pushing their approach that worked for them as *THE* end-all be-all holy grail of solutions to diet and fitness. For some reason these people cannot find room in their mind to understand that many approaches work, each and every single one has their own advantages and disadvantages, and no one answer applies to all of us universally.
So without further ado, here's my list of the lies I'm tired of hearing:
1. Your not serious about strength training if you're not doing squats and dead lifts -> Not true, I know a few professional personal trainers and strength trainers who never use either in their workout plans and they have some clients that are very impressive. Personally, I've had a solid focus for the last year and a half on strength and mass building and without doing a single deadlift and with squats only a very tiny portion of my workout plan I've got some awesome results.
2. You must eat clean to get down to a low Body Fat % and develop a 6-pack -> Hogwash. I've never eaten clean a day in my life. I enjoy processed foods, foods with chemicals, foods made with white flour, and even fast food. Yet here I sit with 9.7% bodyfat and a respectable six pack that's easily visible.
3. Your need to drink plain water to hydrate properly -> Oh gawd, that dammed water debate. No I can drink my crystal light, Aquafina flavor splash, Coke Zero, Gatorade and milk and somehow I have no problem remaining fully hydrated.
4. Carbs make you fat, sugars make you fat, xxxx makes you fat. You have to give them up to get thin -> Again, complete crap. I've not given up ANY FOOD in my lifestyle change and yet I'm at the 9.7% Bodyfat I mentioned above. Instead learning to eat in moderation and balance has been my key. Low Carb/No Carb diets do work, sure. So do diets like mine that let you eat whatever you want as long as you follow the plan.
I'm sure I could go on with a few hundred examples but I think most get the point. Educate yourselves. When you insist that your way is the only proper way to do things and that anyone not doing it your way is foolish, it is you who ultimately looks the fool. If anyone on this forum tells you in no uncertain terms that *this* is the only way then I'd be very skeptical of what they're telling you. Share your experiences, offer tips that helped you, but drop the arrogance that makes you believe you've found the magic solution that everyone should follow and which makes you judge those that have not chosen your path as sadly unaware of the horrible choices they're making. Instead be aware that many are well aware of the choices you've made and have instead made choices that have worked for them. Stop insisting they're doing it wrong or thinking of them as ignorant fools for not following your directions.
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Replies
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The problem with saying 'educate yourselves' is that everyone assumes that's what they're doing. Something like 'seek peer-reviewed articles from reputable journals with high impact factors' or 'read text books' would probably be better. Or even 'avoid taking what you read at a dot-com to be gospel' and 'if someone is selling something they're probably at least 50% full of ****'.0
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I agree 100% with what you are saying. I continue to read peoples' stories on what has worked for them, simply because I can't find what works for me yet. Still seeking the answer for my body. Unfortunately, not many people (that I have seen here) seem to be having my stuggles.
Not looking for a magic pill. Just the formula that my body needs to achieve my goals!!
Thanks for the post.0 -
Good post, OP. Very true, and proseletizing seldom works in anything human.
But a good One Trick Pony thread is entertaining, you have to admit.0 -
I like your thoughts.... what works for one person won't always work for the next. I totally agree on not giving up anything entirely. I have no intention of going without chocolate and desserts the rest of my life.... it will take longer to reach my goals but I will reach them and be much happier in the long run!0
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The one thing I've noticed lately is that some poeple talk in ideals... as in the best most effective/most efficient way to reach your goals ignoring all other factors, while other people just want something that will work and that they can sustain.
That difference is rarely stated, and almost always missed in the forums. Sure, recommendation A may be 1% more effective, but there's only about 3 people on this site that will benefit from that 1%.
More people need to realize that it's about the effort, not the method for 90% of us. What we choose to do is far less important than how hard we try at it. Someone going all out at on a circuit of weight machines is probably going to see better results than someone half-assing it with free weights.
At the end of the day... bust your *kitten* in your workouts and eat right. Period. End of conversation. If you want to eat organic whole foods, have at it. If you want lean cuisine, fine. If you like zumba, great. Want to squat a truck? Go for it.0 -
The problem with saying 'educate yourselves' is that everyone assumes that's what they're doing. Something like 'seek peer-reviewed articles from reputable journals with high impact factors' or 'read text books' would probably be better. Or even 'avoid taking what you read at a dot-com to be gospel' and 'if someone is selling something they're probably at least 50% full of ****'.
Yep I understand what you mean, I guess I should have been more clear. When I say educate yourself, I mean it in terms of opening your mind to the possibility that there are other realities beside your own. That other people may just be wired differently than you. Another way of putting it, consider opposing viewpoints and accept them for what they are.0 -
The problem with saying 'educate yourselves' is that everyone assumes that's what they're doing. Something like 'seek peer-reviewed articles from reputable journals with high impact factors' or 'read text books' would probably be better. Or even 'avoid taking what you read at a dot-com to be gospel' and 'if someone is selling something they're probably at least 50% full of ****'.
I agree with the OP's post and I agree with this ^^^
If you've tried and failed repeatedly, like me, educating yourself is important. But, am I actually educating myself or gathering misinformation? It's hard to know the difference sometimes. To your point about strength training - I was already sure that I needed to do that when I started on MFP. It isn't something I've ever done in the past. But the debate on MFP and elsewhere about what it is, how it should be done, etc, was completely overwhelming to me almost to the point of paralysis and thinking whatever I was doing was not 'the right way.' I still don't really know for sure. When I get to goal weight, I guess I'll know if what I've been doing is effective.0 -
More people need to realize that it's about the effort, not the method for 90% of us. What we choose to do is far less important than how hard we try at it.
SERIOUSLY!
How do you change your body? Force it to adapt. Challenge yourself. Whatever you decide to do, do it like you mean it.0 -
Excellent post by the OP and 100% true. Far too much silliness and myth propagation about diet and exercise.
Here are a couple good articles for you to read about training which are very relevant to this thread:...If you've tried and failed repeatedly, like me, educating yourself is important. But, am I actually educating myself or gathering misinformation? It's hard to know the difference sometimes. To your point about strength training - I was already sure that I needed to do that when I started on MFP. It isn't something I've ever done in the past. But the debate on MFP and elsewhere about what it is, how it should be done, etc, was completely overwhelming to me almost to the point of paralysis and thinking whatever I was doing was not 'the right way.' I still don't really know for sure. When I get to goal weight, I guess I'll know if what I've been doing is effective.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-detail-oriented-do-you-need-to-be.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fundamental-principles-versus-minor-details.html0 -
Here are a couple good articles for you to read about training which are very relevant to this thread:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-detail-oriented-do-you-need-to-be.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fundamental-principles-versus-minor-details.html
I really appreciate your response, I just read both articles.
My confusion/paralysis has come from all the reading I've done that, to summarize, says if I'm not strength training with barbells, and including certain key exercises, I'm not doing it right. I don't have access to barbells at my cheapo gym and have no space to put some in my house. Right now, switching gyms is not going to work based on price/distance. So I've improvised using a combination of bodyweight exercise, compound exercises at the gym with the heaviest dumbbells I can manage, and certain machines. And even as I think I see my butt and other parts of me shaping up, I can't escape the thought I'm doing it wrong and will be disappointed when I reach goal, or that I'm not adding any 'functional strength.' I think I'll wait to worry about that when I reach goal and can evaluate my results. At the very least, maybe I am preserving lean body mass as I go. :flowerforyou:0 -
Has anyone else noticed that the more controversial (and therefore usually most active) threads on these forums are the ones where people insist on speaking in absolutes and pushing their beliefs on everyone else? Are people on MFP really so ignorant or arrogant that they believe the only way to accomplish the goals that we have in common is their way and no other? The age old adage "there's more than one way to skin a cat" applies to so many things in life and indeed applies to fitness and health goals. If there's one thing I've learned over the many years that I've been educating myself on fitness and diet it's that the body remains a mysterious and marvelous machine. It is such a complex meshing of systems that to try and make any universal statement about any of the complex processes in the body is futile at best.
Indeed I've learned that when it comes to fitness and diet, the people to avoid most diligently are those that tell you they've found *THE* answer and this is it. Those hocking their latest fitness contraption always tell you how great and revolutionary it is and point to the "wasted time and effort" involved in their competitors equipment. Those pushing the latest diet approach always seem to be telling us how other diet programs are flawed and will never work. I run from these stories like the plague.
Yet here on MFP, where the very site itself promotes a balanced approach to improving our diet and developing a lifestyle of fitness, we still have the people that insist on pushing their approach that worked for them as *THE* end-all be-all holy grail of solutions to diet and fitness. For some reason these people cannot find room in their mind to understand that many approaches work, each and every single one has their own advantages and disadvantages, and no one answer applies to all of us universally.
So without further ado, here's my list of the lies I'm tired of hearing:
1. Your not serious about strength training if you're not doing squats and dead lifts -> Not true, I know a few professional personal trainers and strength trainers who never use either in their workout plans and they have some clients that are very impressive. Personally, I've had a solid focus for the last year and a half on strength and mass building and without doing a single deadlift and with squats only a very tiny portion of my workout plan I've got some awesome results.
2. You must eat clean to get down to a low Body Fat % and develop a 6-pack -> Hogwash. I've never eaten clean a day in my life. I enjoy processed foods, foods with chemicals, foods made with white flour, and even fast food. Yet here I sit with 9.7% bodyfat and a respectable six pack that's easily visible.
3. Your need to drink plain water to hydrate properly -> Oh gawd, that dammed water debate. No I can drink my crystal light, Aquafina flavor splash, Coke Zero, Gatorade and milk and somehow I have no problem remaining fully hydrated.
4. Carbs make you fat, sugars make you fat, xxxx makes you fat. You have to give them up to get thin -> Again, complete crap. I've not given up ANY FOOD in my lifestyle change and yet I'm at the 9.7% Bodyfat I mentioned above. Instead learning to eat in moderation and balance has been my key. Low Carb/No Carb diets do work, sure. So do diets like mine that let you eat whatever you want as long as you follow the plan.
I'm sure I could go on with a few hundred examples but I think most get the point. Educate yourselves. When you insist that your way is the only proper way to do things and that anyone not doing it your way is foolish, it is you who ultimately looks the fool. If anyone on this forum tells you in no uncertain terms that *this* is the only way then I'd be very skeptical of what they're telling you. Share your experiences, offer tips that helped you, but drop the arrogance that makes you believe you've found the magic solution that everyone should follow and which makes you judge those that have not chosen your path as sadly unaware of the horrible choices they're making. Instead be aware that many are well aware of the choices you've made and have instead made choices that have worked for them. Stop insisting they're doing it wrong or thinking of them as ignorant fools for not following your directions.
Very good post, I agree with you mostly. I believe there's not just a cookie cutter approach for everyone on how to get certain results (correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's basically what you're saying), some things work for people better then others. The tricky part is finding something that does work for you and that you can stick with, I think consistency is the key to everything. If you can't stick to something then you are just wasting your time0 -
This has been one of my favorite sites recently....
http://psychologyofeating.com/blog/ipe-blog/
It really is about doing your own research and working with what resonates with you. Pay attention to your body's signals and be prepared to go with the flow and accept regular change to make it work for you....
The basics are generally the same....clean, simple and all in moderation....it is constant retraining...0 -
Here are a couple good articles for you to read about training which are very relevant to this thread:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-detail-oriented-do-you-need-to-be.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/fundamental-principles-versus-minor-details.html
I really appreciate your response, I just read both articles.
My confusion/paralysis has come from all the reading I've done that, to summarize, says if I'm not strength training with barbells, and including certain key exercises, I'm not doing it right. I don't have access to barbells at my cheapo gym and have no space to put some in my house. Right now, switching gyms is not going to work based on price/distance. So I've improvised using a combination of bodyweight exercise, compound exercises at the gym with the heaviest dumbbells I can manage, and certain machines. And even as I think I see my butt and other parts of me shaping up, I can't escape the thought I'm doing it wrong and will be disappointed when I reach goal, or that I'm not adding any 'functional strength.' I think I'll wait to worry about that when I reach goal and can evaluate my results. At the very least, maybe I am preserving lean body mass as I go. :flowerforyou:
This is so well said, and I think worth discussion. We all have issues to deal with - and they are as myriad as the number of people on the planet.
Unfortunately, human nature has caused us all to think, "My way is The Way."
Add to that the fact that (at least n the U.S.) psychology and pharmaceutical companies want us to believe we are damaged or imperfect in some way. That couldn't be further from the truth. We are all made to be the absolute best and most amazing creatures ever created. We are meant to shine and pounce. Rawr. There is no "wrong" and there are very few "rights".
There is no such thing as "Failure" ..only "Success, delayed."0 -
Points well made, but the ones you're speaking to won't listen. They never do. Good stuff all the same.0
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The thing that really sucks is every one is different. And in the end, it needs to work for a lifetime.0
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Not that I don't necessarily agree, but if you're tired of it, stop reading it. There are many threads on here that I know to bypass based on the title, or they get nasty as I read, so I stop reading. You can only be responsible for what works for you, and if other people want to believe crap, that's on them. Letting yourself get frustrated by closed mindedness is probably a waste of your time.0
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Has anyone else noticed that the more controversial (and therefore usually most active) threads on these forums are the ones where people insist on speaking in absolutes and pushing their beliefs on everyone else? Are people on MFP really so ignorant or arrogant that they believe the only way to accomplish the goals that we have in common is their way and no other? The age old adage "there's more than one way to skin a cat" applies to so many things in life and indeed applies to fitness and health goals. If there's one thing I've learned over the many years that I've been educating myself on fitness and diet it's that the body remains a mysterious and marvelous machine. It is such a complex meshing of systems that to try and make any universal statement about any of the complex processes in the body is futile at best.
Indeed I've learned that when it comes to fitness and diet, the people to avoid most diligently are those that tell you they've found *THE* answer and this is it. Those hocking their latest fitness contraption always tell you how great and revolutionary it is and point to the "wasted time and effort" involved in their competitors equipment. Those pushing the latest diet approach always seem to be telling us how other diet programs are flawed and will never work. I run from these stories like the plague.
Yet here on MFP, where the very site itself promotes a balanced approach to improving our diet and developing a lifestyle of fitness, we still have the people that insist on pushing their approach that worked for them as *THE* end-all be-all holy grail of solutions to diet and fitness. For some reason these people cannot find room in their mind to understand that many approaches work, each and every single one has their own advantages and disadvantages, and no one answer applies to all of us universally.
So without further ado, here's my list of the lies I'm tired of hearing:
1. Your not serious about strength training if you're not doing squats and dead lifts -> Not true, I know a few professional personal trainers and strength trainers who never use either in their workout plans and they have some clients that are very impressive. Personally, I've had a solid focus for the last year and a half on strength and mass building and without doing a single deadlift and with squats only a very tiny portion of my workout plan I've got some awesome results.
2. You must eat clean to get down to a low Body Fat % and develop a 6-pack -> Hogwash. I've never eaten clean a day in my life. I enjoy processed foods, foods with chemicals, foods made with white flour, and even fast food. Yet here I sit with 9.7% bodyfat and a respectable six pack that's easily visible.
3. Your need to drink plain water to hydrate properly -> Oh gawd, that dammed water debate. No I can drink my crystal light, Aquafina flavor splash, Coke Zero, Gatorade and milk and somehow I have no problem remaining fully hydrated.
4. Carbs make you fat, sugars make you fat, xxxx makes you fat. You have to give them up to get thin -> Again, complete crap. I've not given up ANY FOOD in my lifestyle change and yet I'm at the 9.7% Bodyfat I mentioned above. Instead learning to eat in moderation and balance has been my key. Low Carb/No Carb diets do work, sure. So do diets like mine that let you eat whatever you want as long as you follow the plan.
I'm sure I could go on with a few hundred examples but I think most get the point. Educate yourselves. When you insist that your way is the only proper way to do things and that anyone not doing it your way is foolish, it is you who ultimately looks the fool. If anyone on this forum tells you in no uncertain terms that *this* is the only way then I'd be very skeptical of what they're telling you. Share your experiences, offer tips that helped you, but drop the arrogance that makes you believe you've found the magic solution that everyone should follow and which makes you judge those that have not chosen your path as sadly unaware of the horrible choices they're making. Instead be aware that many are well aware of the choices you've made and have instead made choices that have worked for them. Stop insisting they're doing it wrong or thinking of them as ignorant fools for not following your directions.
You expect me to read all that? Are you Mark Twain or Shakespeare?0 -
You expect me to read all that? Are you Mark Twain or Shakespeare?
Were we expecting too much?0 -
I'm so on board with you on this, I can't believe all the absolutist posts. Life isn't like that and weight loss isn't like that. I'm not a clean eater either, but that's not to say that clean eating doesn't work for others or eating a diet of sea urchins and green beans.0
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For me, after reading all the different opinions on weight loss on the forum and what is supposed to work; .i'm sticking with mfp settings and that is that..and it is working. I get a good laugh at people who get angry about those who are not lifting heavy and all the eating more to weigh less stuff...and the lifting heavy eating more theory..and the stick to 1200 gang. makes my head spin. haha. Then there are the extreme px90 exercisers...and 30 day shredders. For sure.. many ways to skin that cat.
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