Free weights vs. Machines
Replies
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If you are just looking to tone up and burn calories the machines will work just fine.
That's my goal!
I know girls can't bulk the way men do without some serious work, but I don't even want a whole bunch of definition. My goal is just to get smaller and have SLIGHTLY defined arms and legs. Getting closer to my goal weight will get me halfway there, and strength and endurance training will hopefully do the rest.
If this is your goal and you've never done strength training, put off the weights for now and just do body weight exercises. That's usually where you have to start anyway. You'll learn and master proper form and then you'll feel more comfortable adding weight.0 -
The problem with the "start with the machines" approach is that being proficient with the machines in no way helps you with the free weights. You'll still have the same learning curve when you finally step into the free weight section. Possibly worse, because the machines will have given you bad balance mechanics and a misperception of how strong you are.
Learn the free weights right from the start.
Totally agree. If you make gains on the machines, it won't translate to gains on the raw metal at all. There are some advantages to the machines for isolation excercises where you want to target very specific muscle fibers or go to failure without the need for a spotter. Machines are also great for exhaustion and pre-exhaustion work. But you gotta have core compound movements with free weights in there if you want to see the best results especially in a beginner trainee who is trying to develop their base muscle and not just tweak what they already have.
Sure it will. I think there's a big tendency for more experienced lifters to think that everybody can lift like they do from day one.
If someone is just starting out, they will see results from doing just about anything--and that includes machines. Is it ideal? Of course not. But not everyone has the resources or the aptitude to launch into free weights from day 1. When you have no control over your body, have no kinesthetic awareness, and are somewhat disoriented starting in a new atmosphere--that's maybe not the best time to start playing around with "compound lifts".
Sorry--don't mean to pick on you personally, but I just think that a lot of the more experienced lifters on fitness forums tend to focus on their ideal rather than the real. And the reality is that not everyone can afford a trainer, not everyone feels comfortable with free weights, and it's not safe for a lot of beginners to even be trying them at first.
A lot of beginners start on machines and at least learn the basics of training, and start feeling where some of their muscles are and how they work. Then, after several sessions, or weeks, or months, they start feeling results, start getting excited and motivated--then they are ready to take the next step--at that point, they learn a lot more easily and retain the information more thoroughly.
Again, not disagreeing with anyone about the superiority of user-defined path of motion resistance exercise vs machine-defined. I am just expressing a different perspective and trying to expand the discussion. I know that plenty of new exercisers can learn free weights from day 1, and I tend to push my younger or more athletic beginners in that direction. And eventually, I take my seniors there too, when they are ready. But working with large numbers in a diverse population, it's notable how out of touch people are with their bodies.
Agreed. I started back exercising after a severe back injury left me virtually immobilized for a year and then another couple years of just light exercising like walking. When I hit the gym, I started on the machines. After 16 months, I just now have switched over to free weights. I started out VERY out of shape and without any core strength. And, to be honest, not much other strength either. I really think that the machines, plus other classes like yoga, pilates, bootcamp, etc., have gotten me fit enough to do free weights but I also believe I would have re-injured my back had I not built up to it.
While doing the machines, I'd worked my way up from doing 90# on the leg press to 240#, 30# on the back machine to 120#, 40# on the ab machine to 110#, as some examples. While, still relatively wienie-weights, I was pleased with my progress. I was gobsmacked with how much I had to lower all my weights when I switched to free weights. Wow. I'm still weaker than I thought.
Free weights definitely give me a much harder workout than I ever got on the machines. Wow, I can feel it all over when I'm done! I'm gutted. But that's a good thing. I'm doing Stronglifts 5x5 but I am adding a couple isolation movements for a few weak spots I need to focus on. I want to do some climbing and I have very weak hands and forearms so I'm doing some farmer carries and various DB wrist curls.
And, yeah, SL5x5 takes about half the time as doing all the machines did.0 -
The problem with the "start with the machines" approach is that being proficient with the machines in no way helps you with the free weights. You'll still have the same learning curve when you finally step into the free weight section. Possibly worse, because the machines will have given you bad balance mechanics and a misperception of how strong you are.
Learn the free weights right from the start.
Totally agree. If you make gains on the machines, it won't translate to gains on the raw metal at all. There are some advantages to the machines for isolation excercises where you want to target very specific muscle fibers or go to failure without the need for a spotter. Machines are also great for exhaustion and pre-exhaustion work. But you gotta have core compound movements with free weights in there if you want to see the best results especially in a beginner trainee who is trying to develop their base muscle and not just tweak what they already have.
Sure it will. I think there's a big tendency for more experienced lifters to think that everybody can lift like they do from day one.
If someone is just starting out, they will see results from doing just about anything--and that includes machines. Is it ideal? Of course not. But not everyone has the resources or the aptitude to launch into free weights from day 1. When you have no control over your body, have no kinesthetic awareness, and are somewhat disoriented starting in a new atmosphere--that's maybe not the best time to start playing around with "compound lifts".
Sorry--don't mean to pick on you personally, but I just think that a lot of the more experienced lifters on fitness forums tend to focus on their ideal rather than the real. And the reality is that not everyone can afford a trainer, not everyone feels comfortable with free weights, and it's not safe for a lot of beginners to even be trying them at first.
A lot of beginners start on machines and at least learn the basics of training, and start feeling where some of their muscles are and how they work. Then, after several sessions, or weeks, or months, they start feeling results, start getting excited and motivated--then they are ready to take the next step--at that point, they learn a lot more easily and retain the information more thoroughly.
Again, not disagreeing with anyone about the superiority of user-defined path of motion resistance exercise vs machine-defined. I am just expressing a different perspective and trying to expand the discussion. I know that plenty of new exercisers can learn free weights from day 1, and I tend to push my younger or more athletic beginners in that direction. And eventually, I take my seniors there too, when they are ready. But working with large numbers in a diverse population, it's notable how out of touch people are with their bodies.
Agreed. I started back exercising after a severe back injury left me virtually immobilized for a year and then another couple years of just light exercising like walking. When I hit the gym, I started on the machines. After 16 months, I just now have switched over to free weights. I started out VERY out of shape and without any core strength. And, to be honest, not much other strength either. I really think that the machines, plus other classes like yoga, pilates, bootcamp, etc., have gotten me fit enough to do free weights but I also believe I would have re-injured my back had I not built up to it.
While doing the machines, I'd worked my way up from doing 90# on the leg press to 240#, 30# on the back machine to 120#, 40# on the ab machine to 110#, as some examples. While, still relatively wienie-weights, I was pleased with my progress. I was gobsmacked with how much I had to lower all my weights when I switched to free weights. Wow. I'm still weaker than I thought.
Free weights definitely give me a much harder workout than I ever got on the machines. Wow, I can feel it all over when I'm done! I'm gutted. But that's a good thing. I'm doing Stronglifts 5x5 but I am adding a couple isolation movements for a few weak spots I need to focus on. I want to do some climbing and I have very weak hands and forearms so I'm doing some farmer carries and various DB wrist curls.
And, yeah, SL5x5 takes about half the time as doing all the machines did.
To be fair, machines were designed to be used for your purpose, PT and injury rehab. Its not exactly the same as a perfectly healthy young woman getting started with a strength program.0 -
If this is your goal and you've never done strength training, put off the weights for now and just do body weight exercises. That's usually where you have to start anyway. You'll learn and master proper form and then you'll feel more comfortable adding weight.
Can do! I love yoga and try to do it a few times a week. I'm much stronger and more flexible when I do that consistently, and I get the overall look that I'm going for. I also have an app on my phone with lots of bodyweight exercises to get me started after I finish Ripped in 30.0 -
Free weights are way better than machines. They strengthen you "core" naturally.
If you're worried about your form and have no access to a trainer then the next best thing is to record yourself and post a video of yourself on one of the mayor lifting forums.
I can recommend the book & DVD "Starting Strength" it explains the mayor lifts in detail.
When you start lifting you don't need many different exercises! Just do the main compound lifts:
- Squat
- Overheap press
- Bench press
- Deadlift
You don't need anything else in the first 3-6 months! (Maybe add pull-ups.)0 -
Clearly free weights are far superior.
That being said - whilst it is ideal that you would start on the free weights from day one with perfect form and a perfect routine. That won't happen though, so if you feel a bit more comfortable using the machines at first then that's a fine way to start.
Maybe get your routine set on the machines and then after a few sessions, before you go down for your next time, research a different compound each time - research it to death so you know you have the form down in your head and try it with a low weight to get the feel of it, then you can start including it in and build up your free weight routine that way.
Squats
Deadlifts
Bench Press/Dips
Pull ups/Chin ups/Lat pulldown
Rows
Shoulder Press
Sit ups0 -
Are you doing this solo or using a trainer? Many people start out using the machines and as they become more confident in their abilities, progress to free weights. There's no shame in it. It's all about taking one step at a time, especially if you're new to lifting. Lift according to your beginning abilities, take it slow, lift safely and have fun.
Unfortunately I have no trainer, and my gym doesn't offer any.
That's why weight lifting is so nerve-wracking for me, I have no reference for what I'm doing except what I've read online.
Ask someone in the gym for some pointers. I know that sounds daunting - to ask a complete stranger for help - but many/most people at the gym will be more than happy to give you a tip or two. They may not want to show you everything about everything, as they want to get their own work in, but will typically show you how to do a particular move and get you started.
Of course, about 50% of the information you get will be wrong, but, hey, you get what you pay for.0 -
Are you doing this solo or using a trainer? Many people start out using the machines and as they become more confident in their abilities, progress to free weights. There's no shame in it. It's all about taking one step at a time, especially if you're new to lifting. Lift according to your beginning abilities, take it slow, lift safely and have fun.
Unfortunately I have no trainer, and my gym doesn't offer any. That's why weight lifting is so nerve-wracking for me, I have no reference for what I'm doing except what I've read online.
Ask someone in the gym for some pointers. I know that sounds daunting - to ask a complete stranger for help - but many/most people at the gym will be more than happy to give you a tip or two. They may not want to show you everything about everything, as they want to get their own work in, but will typically show you how to do a particular move and get you started.
Of course, about 50% of the information you get will be wrong, but, hey, you get what you pay for.
Overly optimistic?0 -
Are you doing this solo or using a trainer? Many people start out using the machines and as they become more confident in their abilities, progress to free weights. There's no shame in it. It's all about taking one step at a time, especially if you're new to lifting. Lift according to your beginning abilities, take it slow, lift safely and have fun.
Unfortunately I have no trainer, and my gym doesn't offer any. That's why weight lifting is so nerve-wracking for me, I have no reference for what I'm doing except what I've read online.
Ask someone in the gym for some pointers. I know that sounds daunting - to ask a complete stranger for help - but many/most people at the gym will be more than happy to give you a tip or two. They may not want to show you everything about everything, as they want to get their own work in, but will typically show you how to do a particular move and get you started.
Of course, about 50% of the information you get will be wrong, but, hey, you get what you pay for.
50% only? You must work out in a good gym. 0 -
If you are just starting a weights regimen, using the machines will help you use the proper form until you are more confident. Otherwise, more free weights than machines will give you the best results.0
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I am doing body weight exercises right now, with P90X. Push-ups, pull-ups (yes I use a chair, so what), squats, star jacks, etc....But I plan to move into free weights eventually.0
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NROL4W uses a mixture of free weights and machines, so you'll be able to utilize most of what your gym has. Free weights add an extra degree of difficulty (and therefore give you a better work out) because you have to use your own strength to stabilize your motions. My gym has cable machines which seem to be a step between free and traditional machines so look for those if you want to reap the benefits of both.0
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@Azdak- that's interesting perspective. One of my bigger issues with machines is the level of complication required to get a balanced program leads people to just pick their favorites. How do you overcome that?
Well, people get the exercises that I give them, so I have some control over their initial programs--and they get balance from me. And that can be a challenge--as everyone says, the isolation nature of most machines means you have to make some choices to make sure people get a balanced workout. I usually give people a "core" of 5-6 exercises that involve large muscle groups, then add 3-4 more depending on specific goals and needs. These are usually functional, closed-chain exercises to introduce the concepts of user-defined movements, balance, and functional core training. I am fortunate in that I have a full spectrum of modalities to choose from -- machines, free weights, cable machines, different functional trainers, power racks, and all the usual bands, tubes, balls, TRX, etc, so I don't have to limit myself to one approach. IMO, beginners don't need a lot of peripheral exercises like crunches, biceps curls, triceps, etc. so we don't bother with that. And when it comes to "core", most people need to strengthen their glutes and their balance, not their abs.
I agree with everything that is said about the benefits of free weights, compound movements, etc. It's just that people have different perspectives and I tend to see the population for whom using that approach out of the gate would be less than effective. So I just wanted to add that perspective for people reading to not come away with this totally negative image of the machines, or feeling like they are useless.
And then there is the learning curve. It takes a long time for people to learn how to do things like squats and deadlifts correctly. Heck, half the people can't even do a lat pulldown correctly, and about 70% of the kids in the free weight area can't do a row properly. So I think it is shortsighted to rely solely on these exercises that many people won't be able to do effectively for a long time--some not ever. Better to put them on a leg press a day one and then have them do squats as a functional exercise. To me, by taking an open, flexible approach, you get the best of both worlds.0 -
Are you doing this solo or using a trainer? Many people start out using the machines and as they become more confident in their abilities, progress to free weights. There's no shame in it. It's all about taking one step at a time, especially if you're new to lifting. Lift according to your beginning abilities, take it slow, lift safely and have fun.
Unfortunately I have no trainer, and my gym doesn't offer any. That's why weight lifting is so nerve-wracking for me, I have no reference for what I'm doing except what I've read online.
Ask someone in the gym for some pointers. I know that sounds daunting - to ask a complete stranger for help - but many/most people at the gym will be more than happy to give you a tip or two. They may not want to show you everything about everything, as they want to get their own work in, but will typically show you how to do a particular move and get you started.
Of course, about 50% of the information you get will be wrong, but, hey, you get what you pay for.
50% only? You must work out in a good gym.
That actually made me laugh....well done.0 -
As a trainer, I look for the member to start with what they feel the most confident in because let's face it, it's gonna be about getting into the gym that will make exercise a priority and if they are scared stiff of free weights, but machines seem less intimidating, then machines it is.
Usually once they get comfortable, then you show them options with free weights. They all have their place. Not everyone can do a pullup, but pulldowns can be done by just about everyone, so machines do have their place.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
bodybuilding.com has a video library of just about every exercise you can think of - I found it extremely helpful.0
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Yes, you can get great results from machines. Yes, the results will definitely be inferior to what you could achieve with free weights. But you'll still get great results if you use the machines properly.0
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bodybuilding.com has a video library of just about every exercise you can think of - I found it extremely helpful.
I like exrx.net0 -
Free weights are better than machines
Machines are better than nothing
This.
And this: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/744311-free-weights-vs-machines-holy-crap0 -
The problem with the "start with the machines" approach is that being proficient with the machines in no way helps you with the free weights. You'll still have the same learning curve when you finally step into the free weight section. Possibly worse, because the machines will have given you bad balance mechanics and a misperception of how strong you are.
Learn the free weights right from the start.
Totally agree. If you make gains on the machines, it won't translate to gains on the raw metal at all. There are some advantages to the machines for isolation excercises where you want to target very specific muscle fibers or go to failure without the need for a spotter. Machines are also great for exhaustion and pre-exhaustion work. But you gotta have core compound movements with free weights in there if you want to see the best results especially in a beginner trainee who is trying to develop their base muscle and not just tweak what they already have.
Sure it will. I think there's a big tendency for more experienced lifters to think that everybody can lift like they do from day one.
If someone is just starting out, they will see results from doing just about anything--and that includes machines. Is it ideal? Of course not. But not everyone has the resources or the aptitude to launch into free weights from day 1. When you have no control over your body, have no kinesthetic awareness, and are somewhat disoriented starting in a new atmosphere--that's maybe not the best time to start playing around with "compound lifts".
Sorry--don't mean to pick on you personally, but I just think that a lot of the more experienced lifters on fitness forums tend to focus on their ideal rather than the real. And the reality is that not everyone can afford a trainer, not everyone feels comfortable with free weights, and it's not safe for a lot of beginners to even be trying them at first.
A lot of beginners start on machines and at least learn the basics of training, and start feeling where some of their muscles are and how they work. Then, after several sessions, or weeks, or months, they start feeling results, start getting excited and motivated--then they are ready to take the next step--at that point, they learn a lot more easily and retain the information more thoroughly.
Again, not disagreeing with anyone about the superiority of user-defined path of motion resistance exercise vs machine-defined. I am just expressing a different perspective and trying to expand the discussion. I know that plenty of new exercisers can learn free weights from day 1, and I tend to push my younger or more athletic beginners in that direction. And eventually, I take my seniors there too, when they are ready. But working with large numbers in a diverse population, it's notable how out of touch people are with their bodies.
Agreed. I started back exercising after a severe back injury left me virtually immobilized for a year and then another couple years of just light exercising like walking. When I hit the gym, I started on the machines. After 16 months, I just now have switched over to free weights. I started out VERY out of shape and without any core strength. And, to be honest, not much other strength either. I really think that the machines, plus other classes like yoga, pilates, bootcamp, etc., have gotten me fit enough to do free weights but I also believe I would have re-injured my back had I not built up to it.
While doing the machines, I'd worked my way up from doing 90# on the leg press to 240#, 30# on the back machine to 120#, 40# on the ab machine to 110#, as some examples. While, still relatively wienie-weights, I was pleased with my progress. I was gobsmacked with how much I had to lower all my weights when I switched to free weights. Wow. I'm still weaker than I thought.
Free weights definitely give me a much harder workout than I ever got on the machines. Wow, I can feel it all over when I'm done! I'm gutted. But that's a good thing. I'm doing Stronglifts 5x5 but I am adding a couple isolation movements for a few weak spots I need to focus on. I want to do some climbing and I have very weak hands and forearms so I'm doing some farmer carries and various DB wrist curls.
And, yeah, SL5x5 takes about half the time as doing all the machines did.
To be fair, machines were designed to be used for your purpose, PT and injury rehab. Its not exactly the same as a perfectly healthy young woman getting started with a strength program.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I was actually encouraging her to do free weights, not machines, due to the harder workout with more muscles getting worked and the potential for a shorter, more efficient workout.0 -
The machines do a great portion of the stabilizing work for you and end up working fewer muscles. A lot fewer. Whatever your endgoal is, you'll get there a lot more efficiently with free weights.
I like free weights better too. But I have some lower back problems and I haven't lifted in a long time so I'm starting up again with mostly machines until I'm stronger.0
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