Mice become Obese WITHOUT Consuming Any More Calories

So I think we can all relax a little bit because you can argue for either case.

IMO it is overkill trying to apply the laws of thermodynamics to eating. For example, if I were to eat 100 grams of lactose you can be sure I will not get 400 calories out of it, and probably other foods eaten with or before it will not have time to be properly absorbed, LOL. This doesn't violate the laws of thermodynamics because my body is not a closed system.

I don't know if there have been any studies to determine how much humans vary in relative efficiency of absorption, but I would guess there is at least some among individuals. Protein and fat digestion is aided by enzymes, which are gene products, which means their structure and thus their effectiveness are at least in part determined by an individual's genes. I'd think it would be pretty unlikely to find all humans identical at all of those loci.

But when it comes down to it, it's still calories in/out. The above may confound our simplistic approach to the "in" part of the equation as far as applying it to everyone exactly the same. But the reality, as shown by many on this site, is that an individual can find what works for them even if they were to have some predisposition.

These people are running in 5Ks because they got fat by being sedentary and overeating, they know it, and they are reversing that by changing their eating and being active. How many of them start to eat healthily and are very active and continue to stay overweight for long periods of time? Any of them?

These people are running in 5Ks because they got fat by being sedentary and overeating, they know it, and they are reversing that by changing their eating and being active. How many of them start to eat healthily and are very active and continue to stay overweight for long periods of time? Any of them?

I know you really want me to be wrong, and maybe I am. It's just my opinion. I don't want to fight with you, but I will tell you about my sister.

Thanks for sticking up for those who face the constant censure of society.

I agree totally. I have observed two young women of my acquaintance who both work the night shift (one is a paramedic and the other a nurse). The paramedic is naturally thin (works out with weights in order to stay strong for her job, which often involves rescue work), the nurse is prone to gain weight very easily. The paramedic knows that if she doesn't work out, she loses muscle mass and weight---she frets that her night work schedule often interferes with her workout routines (she has two young children). The nurse, on the other hand, says that working nights make her want to "scarf up carbs" (likely, in an attempt to boost serotonin levels which are lowered by a lack of daylight). She gains body fat working nights unless she strictly follows her diet and exercise plans.

I really feel bad for the few people who are overweight for legitimate reasons, because they get lumped in with the "gluttonous/lazy" stereotype. If I were overweight for a legitimate medical reason that I couldn't prevent, I would be totally enraged at all the fat people who weren't.

I don't think you quite understand. Naturally thin people like the paramedic do nothing to stay thin---they eat what they like, they only exercise to KEEP WEIGHT ON. People who struggle with their weight, often exercise 5 days a week, eat half of what their naturally thin cousins eat and STILL have extra body fat that wants to grow with every lapse from the very strict program that they place themselves on. The loathing that society wants to inflict on obese people is really saddening.

I doubt they really have the same amount of activity or that she "does nothing" to stay thin. Activity is not just a 30 minute session a couple of times a week. I probably burn more calories grocery shopping than a lot of people do in their 30 minute workout. Yeah, I'm that bastage that walks faster than you run, and blows by you and all the other slow people in the store who act like they are going to die if they move faster than a turtle. I also ride the shopping cart through the parking lot. Wheeeeeee!

I found out when I stopped moving so much that I'm not "naturally thin" like I and everyone else thought I was. The human body is not built to sit on a couch and watch TV or sit at a PC or lounging all the time. Doing that all week and then swinging one's arms and legs around for 30 minutes a couple times a week is still a tiny amount of activity compared to how much our bodies are actually capable of and excel at. There's 112 waking hours in a week, if someone spends 111 of those hours vegetating it should be no surprise if they have a lower caloric need.

My nonscientific personal observation is that a person's size tends to be inversely proportional to how quickly they move. Not just walking speed, I mean everything. When they reach for something, when they get into or out of their car, pretty much every bodily movement. Watch whenever you're out in public and see for yourself. If they're moving that slowly in public, there's no reason to believe they would do any differently during the rest of their day. It's like people make it their goal to be sedentary even when they're walking.

This type of movement is part of NEAT and there's quite a range in calories.....500+ a day comparatively speaking. I couldn't gain a lb if I tried when I was younger, and I tried, I was a skinny kid and wanted to put on weight, didn't happen. Things changed when I hit about 38 and the weight was easier to put on.......now I'm back to a decent weight over the last 10 years, but that was all about watching what and how much I ate. Now it's all about body fat percentage, lol.

These people are running in 5Ks because they got fat by being sedentary and overeating, they know it, and they are reversing that by changing their eating and being active. How many of them start to eat healthily and are very active and continue to stay overweight for long periods of time? Any of them?

I know you really want me to be wrong, and maybe I am. It's just my opinion. I don't want to fight with you, but I will tell you about my sister.

It's not a fight. There's no reason to get upset about it.

I am talking about the massive epidemic. Lots and lots of people are suddenly way bigger than they were a generation ago, including kids. Since the gene pool doesn't shift that rapidly, it has to be our environment or our behavior. Yep there are going to be exceptions, some people may be more efficient at absorbing/storing energy, and/or have malfunctioning 'hunger' switches, etc. I don't know if your sister is a special snowflake or not, and it's not relevant, really. My point is that the vast majority of what's going on is people not eating right for their body and not burning off enough energy, and that since the cause was not some external event, the solution isn't going to be either.

Thanks for sticking up for those who face the constant censure of society.

I really feel bad for the few people who are overweight for legitimate reasons, because they get lumped in with the "gluttonous/lazy" stereotype. If I were overweight for a legitimate medical reason that I couldn't prevent, I would be totally enraged at all the fat people who weren't.

Sugar consumption tracks perfectly with the obesity epidemic (and all the diseases that ride with it). After WWII, the rapid expansion of sugar production (and the consequent price drop) meant that sugar was easily accessible to most people. The use of sugar skyrocketed and obesity rates rose at the same pace. I agree that it couldn't be genetic because both my parents were lean as youngsters and young adults. They both went through the Great Depression and were often hungry and emaciated during that period. It was only during the prosperous 50s that we had such easy access to food in general and especially soda pop and sweets of one sort or another. Our parents urged us to eat because, "...there are children starving in Europe!" We ate too much and way too many sweets because we didn't know any better. We all became obese (including my parents). My sister, brother and I all have had major struggles with obesity and my brother has gone on to develop Type II diabetes. I am now the healthiest (I am the middle child). My BF percentage has gone from over 50% (morbidly obese) to 31% over the course of two years. But I really do not think I could have done it without eliminating sucrose and wheat from my diet. It has turned out to be "metabolic magic" for me.

How is it that every forum thread in which you post , you attempt to turn it into a daitribe on the evils of sugar in your opinion? Are you a one trick pony?

Her 2 year-old sister is already showing signs of having appetite control problems and appears to be getting a bit plump. Her mother has responded by cutting out all sweets and fruit juice. But she's TWO for cryin' out loud. She is a darling sweetheart and it is so sad to have to tell her that her sister can eat whatever but that she must be proscribed in her eating. And how do you make a two-year-old do aerobics and lift weights?

Where is your compassion?

I've been fat and I've been thin and thin is much better. But until recently, I didn't have the information that I needed to make a big change in my life.

You can be judgmental if you want but it won't do your heart any good.

These people are running in 5Ks because they got fat by being sedentary and overeating, they know it, and they are reversing that by changing their eating and being active. How many of them start to eat healthily and are very active and continue to stay overweight for long periods of time? Any of them?

I know you really want me to be wrong, and maybe I am. It's just my opinion. I don't want to fight with you, but I will tell you about my sister.

It's not a fight. There's no reason to get upset about it.

I am talking about the massive epidemic. Lots and lots of people are suddenly way bigger than they were a generation ago, including kids. Since the gene pool doesn't shift that rapidly, it has to be our environment or our behavior. Yep there are going to be exceptions, some people may be more efficient at absorbing/storing energy, and/or have malfunctioning 'hunger' switches, etc. I don't know if your sister is a special snowflake or not, and it's not relevant, really. My point is that the vast majority of what's going on is people not eating right for their body and not burning off enough energy, and that since the cause was not some external event, the solution isn't going to be either.

Thanks for sticking up for those who face the constant censure of society.

I really feel bad for the few people who are overweight for legitimate reasons, because they get lumped in with the "gluttonous/lazy" stereotype. If I were overweight for a legitimate medical reason that I couldn't prevent, I would be totally enraged at all the fat people who weren't.

Sugar consumption tracks perfectly with the obesity epidemic (and all the diseases that ride with it). After WWII, the rapid expansion of sugar production (and the consequent price drop) meant that sugar was easily accessible to most people. The use of sugar skyrocketed and obesity rates rose at the same pace. I agree that it couldn't be genetic because both my parents were lean as youngsters and young adults. They both went through the Great Depression and were often hungry and emaciated during that period. It was only during the prosperous 50s that we had such easy access to food in general and especially soda pop and sweets of one sort or another. Our parents urged us to eat because, "...there are children starving in Europe!" We ate too much and way too many sweets because we didn't know any better. We all became obese (including my parents). My sister, brother and I all have had major struggles with obesity and my brother has gone on to develop Type II diabetes. I am now the healthiest (I am the middle child). My BF percentage has gone from over 50% (morbidly obese) to 31% over the course of two years. But I really do not think I could have done it without eliminating sucrose and wheat from my diet. It has turned out to be "metabolic magic" for me.

How is it that every forum thread in which you post , you attempt to turn it into a daitribe on the evils of sugar in your opinion? Are you a one trick pony?

No--I also think modern wheat is very bad for some people (including me). I am just trying to help people with suggestions on what has worked for me. Once I eliminated sugar and wheat, I was able to start losing weight (when I previously scrupulously kept to 1200 calories a day with only slight losses). Suddenly, my arthritis began to improve and my blood pressure started to normalize even as I was able to reduce my blood pressure medication that was making my muscles hurt ALL the time. Once I got off of the B.P. medication, I was then able to begin exercising (after my thyroid function improved--apparently just from the elimination of sugar and wheat). By that time, my body fat was down considerably but it has gone down another 10% since I started working out on a regular basis. To date, I have lost 50 pounds (and probably added ten pounds of muscle so it looks like more) I have at least 30 more pounds to go, but I am patient and I have enjoyed the journey even if I never shed another pound. Why do you need to be so caustic? That would be my question to you.

Her 2 year-old sister is already showing signs of having appetite control problems and appears to be getting a bit plump. Her mother has responded by cutting out all sweets and fruit juice. But she's TWO for cryin' out loud. She is a darling sweetheart and it is so sad to have to tell her that her sister can eat whatever but that she must be proscribed in her eating. And how do you make a two-year-old do aerobics and lift weights?

WTF @ lifting weights? I've never seen a two year old that is sedentary. My two year old and four year old are constantly running and jumping and wiggling and everything else. I have to wonder what kind of environment must a kid live in if they are so non-energetic that "aerobics" would even make a difference.

My two year old loves juice, but it's just sugar water so he can't have it more than every once in a while. He asks for a popsicle, or gummies, or other sweets every single time I even walk in the general direction of the kitchen. The answer is no. It's not an angry or mean no, it's just "nope, let's eat something else."

I was the youngest so I got to grow up with the neverending chorus of "you're too young to (do whatever it is we are doing that looks like fun)" so I understand that it can sometimes suck, but jealousy is not good for you anyway, so the earlier you learn to get over it, the better.

Where is your compassion?

My compassion is directed at ensuring my children have a sense of "normal" that will serve them well for the next 100 years they are expected to live. Even if that requires some short-term annoyance to them and me.

I've been fat and I've been thin and thin is much better. But until recently, I didn't have the information that I needed to make a big change in my life.

And telling people, "you are naturally fat and won't ever be able to do anything about it so just give up and accept my pity," is not going to help anyone figure out how to live so that they become and stay thin.

You can be judgmental if you want but it won't do your heart any good.

You are the one making value judgments over everything. Just because you do that all the time doesn't mean everyone else is. The obesity epidemic is preventable. If you find negative judgments about people in that, that is all inside your head, not mine. The best way to keep yourself from understanding anything is to make value judgments about it.