Is calory theory a load of tosh, or is my BMR wrong?

For the seriously obese, those tables tend to be inaccurate. A better measure is to use body fat calipers (about $20 online). It will tell you how much of your body is lean body mass (the part that takes more calories to maintain) and how much is fat (the part that doesn't take very many calories to maintain).

When I was 50% body fat (morbidly obese) I would often eat 1200 calories a day for months at a time, and would lose maybe a pound or two a month but certainly nothing startling. Because I have arthritis and I believed the "experts' " opinions that "you can not possibly exercise enough to lose weight"---I got very little exercise (and got sicker and sicker). I had the gamut from high blood pressure, borderline Type II diabetes, gouty arthritis and sleep apnea. The blood pressure medication accelerated the muscle loss and fat gain because it was very destructive to my muscles---they hurt all the time in addition to my joints hurting all the time.

Then I got mad at feeling so crummy and I set out to help myself by learning a bit. What I found out was that I could not eat sugar or wheat (both are addictive for me---as they are for many obese folk---but more than that, they messed with my metabolism because they both raise blood sugar and insulin levels precipitously). A number of doctors report that when they put their patients on a lower carbohydrate, no sugar and no wheat diet, that their obese patients' thyroid functions improve. That was exciting for me to learn, as I have had thyroid issues for many years--maybe always--in addition to having had PCOS. Finally, I got clued in to the fact that you must build lean body mass, if you want to speed up your metabolism. I now eat about 1600 calories a day and stay on the lower end of carbs--100 to 200 grams per day--with the higher intake on heavier exercise days. I could eat 2200 calories on my heavier exercise days--although I still have a lot of "wiggle room" in that I am still at 32% body fat so I usually try to stay at 1800 calories even on those days. I know that eventually, as I get closer to my goal weight, I will have to eat back more of my exercise calories and that I will have to exercise a lot more to reduce my body fat to the goal I have set of 25%. I usually keep my protein about what my macros suggest (on my heavier workout days I usually go a bit higher because I am consciously trying to build muscle). One of the body-builder websites that I saw recommended here said that going too high above your protein macro is counter-productive because you are "training your body to burn protein". I also usually go over my fat macros because I am trying to "teach" my body to burn fat rather than protein and carbohydrates.

In the past, I lost a lot of weight on very low carb diets (before I got sick, that is) but I found that they tend to shrink muscle and thus are counter-productive in the long run. Healthy carbohydrates have a "muscle sparing" effect and thus are important for that reason alone (but obese people seem to lack the ability to convert carbohydrates into energy as well as others and must restrict them a bit so that their little insulin engine doesn't just shove those carbohydrates into their fat stores. Restricting carbs also helps to control appetite (because it lowers insulin levels). The reason why you don't want a very low carb approach is that it tends to lower insulin levels too far and insulin is necessary to build muscle. I have added about ten pounds of muscle over the last year and that is likely why I can eat more than I used to even when I take a day where I don't exercise.

Conquering obesity is basically a process of reversing the obesity process. The obesity process usually is composed of eating too many empty calories and then moving less because of the sluggishness that comes from a reluctance to haul around excess baggage and the bio-chemical derangement that results from the eating of sugar (for some folks). By the way, I don't believe anyone who tells me that low-fat is the way to go---I've tried it many times and it simply did not work (in spite of counting calories religiously). I would inevitably fall off the wagon and just start eating whatever, because I was not addressing the real problem of carbs in general and sugar and wheat in particular. This program is easy for me to stay on. In two years, I have never once gone back to eating sugar and wheat or a high carb diet in general--not even tempted to go off the program. I feel great and with the loss of body fat, I have been able to get completely off my blood pressure meds, my sleep apnea has disappeared, my arthritis is much improved and my hormones have straightened out.

For the seriously obese, those tables tend to be inaccurate. A better measure is to use body fat calipers (about $20 online). It will tell you how much of your body is lean body mass (the part that takes more calories to maintain) and how much is fat (the part that doesn't take very many calories to maintain).

Thank you "around" for your long message, which I will study in depth tomorrow as it;s really late at night and I want to respect it by giving it my full concentration.

In the meantime, just want to respond to this point above -- my b/f has scales that can tell your body fat and they said I was 60% fat, which seems amazing. I'm more than half blubber!

I'd love to be in contact with you, in the hope that you can help me to build an effective diet plan. THANK YOU

You're very welcome. Feel free to add me as a friend and PM me to get details on what my process has been and a few "tricks" that have proved helpful to me. Just understand that you are not alone and we are here to help.

I don't think I can add anything of value to the discussion of BMR and calorie intake for extreme weight loss, but I can support the notion that low (simple) carb, higher protein intake is better to support better health in the long run for many obese people. Your muscles in your legs are already pretty strong having to carry the load they do, but that's why the joints hurt. They weren't designed to do what you're making them do, and all the reasons you cite to change that are all the right reasons. Aside from all of that, this is the most excellent place to get non-judgmental support. I have to say I have nothing but admiration for those of you who have or are trying to literally be half the size you are now. It makes my struggles petty in comparison, but all the more compelling, too, because I never want to be where you are now. Keep going and I will cheer you as you do.

Well, basically I think it helps to understand that the calorie in/calorie out (CICO) theory of weight gain and weight loss is both right and wrong. Essentially, the basic theory says that if you eat less calories than you burn, you will lose weight and body fat. There is truth to this ... if you use more calories than you consume, that deficit must be made up somehow. There is also falseness to this.

One of the bigger issues in the CICO is that it doesn't account for things like how insulin works within the body, what happens when you become insulin resistant, how the body's metabolism actually uses those calories, etc. BMR is very helpful, but it must be coupled with understanding different sorts of fats, carbs and proteins, how your body uses them, how obesity has impacted your metabolism and so forth. In fact, your body will utilize different sorts of nutrients differently throughout the day, depending on whether you are physically active, sleeping, etc.

While I think you can achieve some weight loss by doing the CICO method, I believe you will be much more successful by understanding how your body works, how carbs and fat are used by the body for energy, and much more.

I would highly recommend reading Gary Taubes book, "Why We Get Fat", as ONE source for this. There are lots of others. And by all means talk with people in the very obese to 100+ lbs of weight loss category. They are going to understand your situation far better than someone like me.

Best of luck!

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Thanks for the replies.

Before I started dieting a dietician had me keep a food journal for a week of how much I was eating (without restricting my eating in any way). It showed that I was eating between 2,000 and 3,000 calories a day and exercising one hour a week, and I was gaining the whole time. According to the calculators, I should have been losing the whole time.

I then went on a meat-only zero carb diet for five months, calories were unrestricted and so I stopped counting them. I lost 15lb. Then I got ill and went back to eating carbs and did no exercise. I gained back all of that 15lb. Again I kept a food diary for a week and was eating about 2,000 to 2,500 a day.

I started Atkins in October, 20g carbs a day, did not count calories but I'd guess I was having about 2,500. I lost nothing in 12 weeks of this.

This is why on 2nd Jan I decided to aim for 1,500. (In 21 days I have gone over that on a few days.)

If I increase this to 2,500 to 3,000 I will start gaining again, surely?

What medical tests have been done to ensure you don't have a metabolic reason for not being able to lose? When you were logging for the dietician did you weigh everything or guesstimate, did you consistently log as it went into your mouth or at the end of the day?

There are BMR calculators that work on lean mass not total body mass, you might see if you get a similar or different number. You might also find it helpful to wear a pedometer and see exactly what activity you are achieving on a daily basis, you might not be able to change that yet given that your joints hurt, but it will give you some idea of where you are at and again more accuracy in the calculations. From a lifestyle healthcare professional standpoint, less than about 6000 steps a day is sedentary, some don't achieve this even with a regular workout.

Be aware that if you cut too many calories you won't be getting all the nutrients your body needs, and your body may think there is a famine. It's generally easier to cut 1000 calories a day if you are burning plenty through lifestyle activity and formal exercise, often if you are sedentary it's best to cut no more than about 500 calories a day.

The one you recommend says

Activity Level Daily Calories
Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 2158
Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) 2472
Moderately Active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk) 2787
Very Active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk) 3102
Extremely Active (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training, i.e marathon, contest etc.) 3416

lucky you. my sedentary is barely 1500.

The thing is the larger you are the more calories your body requires. That's why people who have lots of muscle can get away with eating so much and why larger people lose weight fairly quickly.
If you are really worried about your food intake, get your body fat tested. The online calculators will be a little more accurate for you.
If I were you I would eat at least 2,000 calories a day and see how the first 2-3 weeks go. You might not lose weight every single day, but you should see some type of change each week. That's just what I would do. If you're losing weight too quickly after a month then up your calories by 100-200 and see how it goes.

It's different for everybody. Don't try to lose it so so so fast, because your skin won't have time to adjust and could be a problem later down the road.

Just a thought too, how do you feel on the amount of calories you are eating? If you feel really hungry it could either be from being used to eating so much or you are genuinly hungry. If you feel 'good' you might be getting enough. For excersize I have heard great things about aqua aerobics, so good work :happy: You have said you can barely walk, but can you get up and take a few extra steps everyday. Even laps of you living room? Basically move a little bit more. It might be something you can measure and be an goal to do more steps or something. Good luck