Is calory theory a load of tosh, or is my BMR wrong?

Is calory theory a load of tosh, or is my BMR wrong?

both

There is a chance that you have slowed your metabolism by chronically under-eating. 1500 cal/day is not enough for you.

Thanks everyone.

I want to keep calories low because I want to lose as fast as possible, at least the first three or four stone. I can barely walk, my life is a misery.

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You didn't gain the weight overnight, you're not going to lose it overnight. Slow and steady wins the race. Be safe and good luck.

Thanks everyone.

I want to keep calories low because I want to lose as fast as possible, at least the first three or four stone. I can barely walk, my life is a misery.

"Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 2158 "

If I maintain in 2158 then how is 1500 too low? So low that I will mess up my metabolism? Any more and there will be barely any deficit. I want to lose at least 2lb a week and that according to calorie theory means a deficit of 1,000 calories a day.

So if my "Sedentary" number is 2158 I should be eating 1,000 a day less which is only 1,100.

You can tolerate a large deficit at your current size, but that won't be the case forever.

There is such a thing as too much deficit. Keep that in mind. Losing weight isn't simply about being in a deficit, it is about finding the right amount, learning your body, and making sure you keep with it.

I used to be close to your weight, though I'm a bit taller. I'm 6'2" and used to weigh a little over 340 lb. I started off eating about 2,500 calories a day to lose weight and averaged 2-3 lb per week in loss most of the time. There was a learning period in there where I lost nothing over the course of a month and a half. And there were times where I averaged high. All in all I lost 95 lb in one year (150 lb in 2 years).

Knowing _about_ where your calorie needs are at is good, but it may take a little experimentation to get it just right. Don't be afraid to up your calories if you aren't losing enough (sometimes things work that way).

Your BMR is about 2700. Just eat about 400 calories over it and you should lose weight just fine.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Thanks everyone.

I want to keep calories low because I want to lose as fast as possible, at least the first three or four stone. I can barely walk, my life is a misery.

"Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 2158 "

If I maintain in 2158 then how is 1500 too low? So low that I will mess up my metabolism? Any more and there will be barely any deficit. I want to lose at least 2lb a week and that according to calorie theory means a deficit of 1,000 calories a day.

So if my "Sedentary" number is 2158 I should be eating 1,000 a day less which is only 1,100.

do NOT...i repeat....do NOT get hung up on losing 2 pounds a week.

You won't achieve this. Loss is NOT linear...it does not line up to a cashier aisle everyday and check out it's 2 pounds. Some weeks you won't lose any and then all of the sudden you can't lose enough...

Do not and I repeat do NOT get hung up on the scale, take measurements of yourself, I know it's tough and hard at that weight, trust me, look at my ticker...i KNOW but use a string and measure the string and record it....you WILL see loss in your size even when you do not necessarily lose on the scale.

Again, do NOT get hung up on 2 pounds a week
and
Measure.

Good luck.

Your BMR is about 2700. Just eat about 400 calories over it and you should lose weight just fine.

I apologise for being incredulous given your impressive sig, but I cannot believe that I could lose weight on over 3,000 calories a day. That is, after all, what got me up to 362 pounds in the first place.

Alex.... sorry, I do know that I cannot control how much weight my body chooses to give up and I am sorry for not making that plain. I meant I would like to lose 100lb in a year, which is about 2lb a week. I appreciate that might mean no wieght loss one week and some loss the next, etc. In fact that is exactly what happened to me in the last two weeks (zero loss one week, then 8lb lost last week).

Not sure why you say measure with string... and not with a tape measure? Sorry, dumb question?

BASICALLY without going into too many details when you don't eat enough, the weight you lose is part fat and part muscle.
When you lose muscle your metabolism slows down and when you workout without eating enough calories your body eats your muscles for the energy first, not the fat.

Its a vicious cycle. this is why starvation diets don't work and anorexics die when they're 23 years old. losing weight properly is a slow process but its infinitely more beneficial for you if you plan on living for a long time

For the seriously obese, those tables tend to be inaccurate. A better measure is to use body fat calipers (about $20 online). It will tell you how much of your body is lean body mass (the part that takes more calories to maintain) and how much is fat (the part that doesn't take very many calories to maintain).

When I was 50% body fat (morbidly obese) I would often eat 1200 calories a day for months at a time, and would lose maybe a pound or two a month but certainly nothing startling. Because I have arthritis and I believed the "experts' " opinions that "you can not possibly exercise enough to lose weight"---I got very little exercise (and got sicker and sicker). I had the gamut from high blood pressure, borderline Type II diabetes, gouty arthritis and sleep apnea. The blood pressure medication accelerated the muscle loss and fat gain because it was very destructive to my muscles---they hurt all the time in addition to my joints hurting all the time.

Then I got mad at feeling so crummy and I set out to help myself by learning a bit. What I found out was that I could not eat sugar or wheat (both are addictive for me---as they are for many obese folk---but more than that, they messed with my metabolism because they both raise blood sugar and insulin levels precipitously). A number of doctors report that when they put their patients on a lower carbohydrate, no sugar and no wheat diet, that their obese patients' thyroid functions improve. That was exciting for me to learn, as I have had thyroid issues for many years--maybe always--in addition to having had PCOS. Finally, I got clued in to the fact that you must build lean body mass, if you want to speed up your metabolism. I now eat about 1600 calories a day and stay on the lower end of carbs--100 to 200 grams per day--with the higher intake on heavier exercise days. I could eat 2200 calories on my heavier exercise days--although I still have a lot of "wiggle room" in that I am still at 32% body fat so I usually try to stay at 1800 calories even on those days. I know that eventually, as I get closer to my goal weight, I will have to eat back more of my exercise calories and that I will have to exercise a lot more to reduce my body fat to the goal I have set of 25%. I usually keep my protein about what my macros suggest (on my heavier workout days I usually go a bit higher because I am consciously trying to build muscle). One of the body-builder websites that I saw recommended here said that going too high above your protein macro is counter-productive because you are "training your body to burn protein". I also usually go over my fat macros because I am trying to "teach" my body to burn fat rather than protein and carbohydrates.

In the past, I lost a lot of weight on very low carb diets (before I got sick, that is) but I found that they tend to shrink muscle and thus are counter-productive in the long run. Healthy carbohydrates have a "muscle sparing" effect and thus are important for that reason alone (but obese people seem to lack the ability to convert carbohydrates into energy as well as others and must restrict them a bit so that their little insulin engine doesn't just shove those carbohydrates into their fat stores. Restricting carbs also helps to control appetite (because it lowers insulin levels). The reason why you don't want a very low carb approach is that it tends to lower insulin levels too far and insulin is necessary to build muscle. I have added about ten pounds of muscle over the last year and that is likely why I can eat more than I used to even when I take a day where I don't exercise.

Conquering obesity is basically a process of reversing the obesity process. The obesity process usually is composed of eating too many empty calories and then moving less because of the sluggishness that comes from a reluctance to haul around excess baggage and the bio-chemical derangement that results from the eating of sugar (for some folks). By the way, I don't believe anyone who tells me that low-fat is the way to go---I've tried it many times and it simply did not work (in spite of counting calories religiously). I would inevitably fall off the wagon and just start eating whatever, because I was not addressing the real problem of carbs in general and sugar and wheat in particular. This program is easy for me to stay on. In two years, I have never once gone back to eating sugar and wheat or a high carb diet in general--not even tempted to go off the program. I feel great and with the loss of body fat, I have been able to get completely off my blood pressure meds, my sleep apnea has disappeared, my arthritis is much improved and my hormones have straightened out.

For the seriously obese, those tables tend to be inaccurate. A better measure is to use body fat calipers (about $20 online). It will tell you how much of your body is lean body mass (the part that takes more calories to maintain) and how much is fat (the part that doesn't take very many calories to maintain).

Thank you "around" for your long message, which I will study in depth tomorrow as it;s really late at night and I want to respect it by giving it my full concentration.

In the meantime, just want to respond to this point above -- my b/f has scales that can tell your body fat and they said I was 60% fat, which seems amazing. I'm more than half blubber!

I'd love to be in contact with you, in the hope that you can help me to build an effective diet plan. THANK YOU

You're very welcome. Feel free to add me as a friend and PM me to get details on what my process has been and a few "tricks" that have proved helpful to me. Just understand that you are not alone and we are here to help.

I don't think I can add anything of value to the discussion of BMR and calorie intake for extreme weight loss, but I can support the notion that low (simple) carb, higher protein intake is better to support better health in the long run for many obese people. Your muscles in your legs are already pretty strong having to carry the load they do, but that's why the joints hurt. They weren't designed to do what you're making them do, and all the reasons you cite to change that are all the right reasons. Aside from all of that, this is the most excellent place to get non-judgmental support. I have to say I have nothing but admiration for those of you who have or are trying to literally be half the size you are now. It makes my struggles petty in comparison, but all the more compelling, too, because I never want to be where you are now. Keep going and I will cheer you as you do.

Well, basically I think it helps to understand that the calorie in/calorie out (CICO) theory of weight gain and weight loss is both right and wrong. Essentially, the basic theory says that if you eat less calories than you burn, you will lose weight and body fat. There is truth to this ... if you use more calories than you consume, that deficit must be made up somehow. There is also falseness to this.

One of the bigger issues in the CICO is that it doesn't account for things like how insulin works within the body, what happens when you become insulin resistant, how the body's metabolism actually uses those calories, etc. BMR is very helpful, but it must be coupled with understanding different sorts of fats, carbs and proteins, how your body uses them, how obesity has impacted your metabolism and so forth. In fact, your body will utilize different sorts of nutrients differently throughout the day, depending on whether you are physically active, sleeping, etc.

While I think you can achieve some weight loss by doing the CICO method, I believe you will be much more successful by understanding how your body works, how carbs and fat are used by the body for energy, and much more.

I would highly recommend reading Gary Taubes book, "Why We Get Fat", as ONE source for this. There are lots of others. And by all means talk with people in the very obese to 100+ lbs of weight loss category. They are going to understand your situation far better than someone like me.

Best of luck!

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