If you work in food service....(Offensive)
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Clearly I'm taking some heat for my position ...
But to the people who think I can't be nice, or I'm belittling the poor helpless bartender ...
Let me first just say that I personally think I'm exceedingly polite and courteous and always respectful of the people who serve me in restaurants, or pump my gas, or check me out at the grocery store, or that I even just meet on the street. I don't even talk smack to people on the internet ...
But I will defend myself in this instance.
First off, I live in Oregon. State law prohibits an employer from reducing an employees wage below the minimum level to account for tips. So that guy was paid an hourly wage to do a job. Any tips he makes are a bonus.
I walked in, walked up to the bar, ordered a drink, at which time I was told how much that would cost, I subsequently paid for my drink and moved on. I literally took up maybe one minute of that guy's time. Later, when I decided I wanted another drink, I returned to the bar only to have the bartender refuse to serve me, and not only that give me a lecture on how I'm somehow a bad person for not tipping?!? Fine. I left.
In his his capacity as a representative of his employer and that establishment, he has failed. His selfish attitude has cost that business a paying customer, all because he can't line his own pocket with an extra dollar. And yet ... I'm the a-hole? I refuse to accept that. If I really wanted to be an a-hole, I would have called his employer the next day to complain (which I would have been fully justified in doing). But I didn't ... I moved on.
As to the comment that I am in someway belittling these "customer service" people ... I just don't buy it. I'm not saying they don't work hard for their money. What I am saying is that literally anybody can walk in off the street and with a minimum amount of training, they can perform that job. As I previously stated, I worked in the food service industry for YEARS, so I have some perspective here. We pay lawyers and doctors a premium for the services they render because they are highly skilled. We pay waitresses and fast food employees a minimum because they are unskilled. That's just the way it works.
To suggest that everybody should arbitrarily tip these people an additional 15% to 20% percent indicates that what you are really suggesting is increasing the minim wage, or perhaps welfare reform, which would actually be a more fair way to manage the issue, considering that the poor *kitten* who slave away all day in the kitchen at McDonalds or Burger King aren't fortunate enough to be deemed tip-worthy by society.0 -
To suggest that everybody should arbitrarily tip these people an additional 15% to 20% percent indicates that what you are really suggesting is increasing the minim wage, or perhaps welfare reform, which would actually be a more fair way to manage the issue, considering that the poor *kitten* who slave away all day in the kitchen at McDonalds or Burger King aren't fortunate enough to be deemed tip-worthy by society.
Those poor *kitten* make $5.12 more per hour than most servers in the US. If you're a server working a 6 hour shift, that means you have to bring home over $30.00 in tips to even out. Sounds easy enough, right? Well, with more and more folks "saving money" by cutting the tip instead of the amount of times they go out to eat, it's definitely not nearly as easy as it sounds, especially at a casual dining restaurant. Even servers at BUFFETS generally make $2.13 an hour. And those folks do a hell of a lot more work than a typical server (I know, because I was a server at a buffet when I was 15-16).
Plus, those poor fast food *kitten* could walk into a restaurant off the street and get a job as a server if they really wanted, right?
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I tip 15%. 20% is getting pretty high. When we go out for a meal, it is generally a pretty healthy tab and the restaurant is making good money from me. It is amazing to think that they would pay their staff $2.00 an hour because they expect their customers to supplement the payroll ...think about it.... Where else do the customer supplement the payroll? You go to the grocery store, you don't have to tip the check out girl. You buy a pair of shoes, you don't tip the clerk. Perhaps restaurant owners shouldn't be so greedy
It's not the restaurant owners, it's state laws.0 -
Clearly I'm taking some heat for my position ...
But to the people who think I can't be nice, or I'm belittling the poor helpless bartender ...
Let me first just say that I personally think I'm exceedingly polite and courteous and always respectful of the people who serve me in restaurants, or pump my gas, or check me out at the grocery store, or that I even just meet on the street. I don't even talk smack to people on the internet ...
But I will defend myself in this instance.
First off, I live in Oregon. State law prohibits an employer from reducing an employees wage below the minimum level to account for tips. So that guy was paid an hourly wage to do a job. Any tips he makes are a bonus.
I walked in, walked up to the bar, ordered a drink, at which time I was told how much that would cost, I subsequently paid for my drink and moved on. I literally took up maybe one minute of that guy's time. Later, when I decided I wanted another drink, I returned to the bar only to have the bartender refuse to serve me, and not only that give me a lecture on how I'm somehow a bad person for not tipping?!? Fine. I left.
Yeah, that guy was just a jerk. No one should ever say anything like that to a guest. A good server/bartender chalks it up as a loss and moves on.As to the comment that I am in someway belittling these "customer service" people ... I just don't buy it. I'm not saying they don't work hard for their money. What I am saying is that literally anybody can walk in off the street and with a minimum amount of training, they can perform that job. As I previously stated, I worked in the food service industry for YEARS, so I have some perspective here. We pay lawyers and doctors a premium for the services they render because they are highly skilled. We pay waitresses and fast food employees a minimum because they are unskilled. That's just the way it works.
That's quite an insult. You think it doesn't take skill to deal with people day in and day out? Sure, it's not rocket science by any means, but to be able to do it long enough and make a living from it takes skill. Patience with dealing with rude people, children who destroy your station, parents who let children destroy their station, people who have no manners, people who don't know what they are ordering then b*tch at you when it came out "wrong", though it's exactly as they ordered it, and to do it with a smile because there's not much you can do about it but just take it? Yeah, that takes skill.
But I'm not 100% biased. Sure there are bad servers, the ones who don't care and are rude. Yep, they don't deserve much, and they give exceptional servers like me a bad name.
That being said, I love my job and I am happy every day to go there. Seriously.
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As other people have said we don't tip in the same way in the UK, we have minimum wage laws that would not allow someone to work for peanuts and have to 'top up' their wages, BUT we do tip GOOD service, I leave a tip almost every time i eat out, although it is not to any calculated amount (my Canadian husband STILL can't get his head round this and wants to start working out 20% etc and says oh and more if we had alcohol) we DON'T do it like that obviously. Also we have what is known as service charge that is included in the bill, this is like a calculated amount but it is part of the bill. We don't routinely tip bar staff, but people do say 'have one yourself' and staff will take the amount a drink would cost from the money the customer offers (my son has a weekend and evening job as a KP in a country pub and every month they divide up the tips, this is made up from the money left behind the bar and tips left on tables from food customers) I tip my hairdresser as I like how my hair is done and I enjoy the service, people routinely tip taxi drivers too.
I don't earn a lot, and nobody tips me when I do a good job, I worked in the service industry for a company that absolutely refused to allow us to accept tips or gifts etc and we gave good service because it was our job to do so, we got mystery shopped once a month and if we got mentioned as giving 'excellent service' (this was amazingly hard as the company had incredibly hard standards) you generally got given a reward of some kind, I had a box of chocolates once, and a bottle of wine another time and once I was given an orchid lol.
I found it very odd in the States and Canada at how you are expected to tip despite the service, just for people doing their job. But I am aware of the reason, but lots of people have very low paid jobs and do them well and don't get any kind of tip or reward or bonus and it's about time the system recognised that and people were paid a minimum wage that did not mean that tips became something you do regardless.0 -
I tip 15%. 20% is getting pretty high. When we go out for a meal, it is generally a pretty healthy tab and the restaurant is making good money from me. It is amazing to think that they would pay their staff $2.00 an hour because they expect their customers to supplement the payroll ...think about it.... Where else do the customer supplement the payroll? You go to the grocery store, you don't have to tip the check out girl. You buy a pair of shoes, you don't tip the clerk. Perhaps restaurant owners shouldn't be so greedy
It's not the restaurant owners, it's state laws.
I don't know about state laws...I am a Canadian.0 -
That's quite an insult. You think it doesn't take skill to deal with people day in and day out? Sure, it's not rocket science by any means, but to be able to do it long enough and make a living from it takes skill. Patience with dealing with rude people, children who destroy your station, parents who let children destroy their station, people who have no manners, people who don't know what they are ordering then b*tch at you when it came out "wrong", though it's exactly as they ordered it, and to do it with a smile because there's not much you can do about it but just take it? Yeah, that takes skill.
It's doubtful we are going to agree on this, but I'll attempt to clarify my position.
It is not my intent to be insulting, but as they say, patience is a virtue, not a skill. The dictionary seems to agree with me in this case, as the primary definition of unskilled is "of or pertaining to workers who lack technical training or skill."
I'd say on average, food service employees work harder than doctors. That is to say, their job is more laborious. That does not mean that a food service worker could perform the tasks as a physician. However, I would say that a physician could perform the same tasks as a food service worker. In fact, I know a physician who retired, and to stay active, got a job at the local sandwich shop. He works there to this day, making sandwiches, and you'd never know he was a doctor if nobody told you. I suspect though, that if one of his coworkers decided to give up their life of sandwich making and open up a medical practice, their lack of training would be sorely evident.
A person's occupation should not determine how we treat them. Every body deserves respect, and compassion, and kindness. But it should determine how much they are paid. It's the basic principal our society is founded on. And, while I have nothing but the utmost respect for food service workers (or any workers for that matter), I don't think it's our responsibility as consumers to supplement their income directly.
But the playing field needs to be even. I think it's unfair for a state to allow employers to pay those employees who might receive tips less than the minimum wage, but once again ... in my state (Oregon) that is illegal.0 -
And, while I have nothing but the utmost respect for food service workers (or any workers for that matter), I don't think it's our responsibility as consumers to supplement their income directly.
But the playing field needs to be even. I think it's unfair for a state to allow employers to pay those employees who might receive tips less than the minimum wage, but once again ... in my state (Oregon) that is illegal.
Well, until laws change, that's the way it is. I guess we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree.0 -
It may be unfair, but its still a reality. If the min wage is increased and the cost of the food goes up to cover it, there will be a whole new set of complainers. Its not the servers fault.
I wouldn't mind if the tip was included in my bill, but many people would. I don't mind paying an "unskilled" person for making my drink. Hey, the better you tip, the better your drink is. Thats bar science. :drinker: I'd rather help my bartender pay for his/her education than pay for my doctor to spend the summer in the Hamptons..
I'm just sayin......0 -
I'm so glad all the people in the comments are calling her out about her completely ridiculous behavior. Food service is awful to work in. You have to work your *kitten* off AND put up with people like that. You pay the resaurant for the food and the service people of bringing it and cleaning it for you. Period.0
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3- to those people that think this is a flawed system...yes it is, but it allows the restaurant to keep the food prices low and allows them to be open for longer hours.
It allows the restaurant to look good by displaying a lower printed price on the menu for the food....at the end of the day, the tip is still an out of pocket cost for me. That meal is now 10-25% higher in cost than it looks, depending on how much you tip.
Personally, I hate the stress of trying to decide who I tip (servers?; bartenders? hairdressers - does she own the salon or not? the flower delivery guy? my babysitter??) and how much. Just pay folks a decent wage, give me a bill I can understand and predict!
I will tip, but I hate it! Among other things, my wages are recorded and taxed - you can't tell me that, regardless of the laws, EVERY tip I pay to any one of the aforementioned service people is declared at tax time!0 -
to be honest, you are partly correct. If you tip with your debit or credit card, then yes, all of the tip is claimed. if you're tipping in cash, sometimes a portion of it is claimed. Not everyone declares all of their "cash" tip money, at least not in my experience working in hospitality/hotel/restaurant industry.0
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A person's occupation should not determine how we treat them. Every body deserves respect, and compassion, and kindness. But it should determine how much they are paid. It's the basic principal our society is founded on.
. . . .so that bartender deserved to be paid -8 cents to serve you a drink?? (I am assuming 1% since that is what I have always tipped out.)0 -
3- to those people that think this is a flawed system...yes it is, but it allows the restaurant to keep the food prices low and allows them to be open for longer hours.
It allows the restaurant to look good by displaying a lower printed price on the menu for the food....at the end of the day, the tip is still an out of pocket cost for me. That meal is now 10-25% higher in cost than it looks, depending on how much you tip.
Personally, I hate the stress of trying to decide who I tip (servers?; bartenders? hairdressers - does she own the salon or not? the flower delivery guy? my babysitter??) and how much. Just pay folks a decent wage, give me a bill I can understand and predict!
I will tip, but I hate it! Among other things, my wages are recorded and taxed - you can't tell me that, regardless of the laws, EVERY tip I pay to any one of the aforementioned service people is declared at tax time!
Actually, if servers do not claim realistic tips, corporate will investigate. You can't just claim 10% or anything like that either. Obviously the credit tips are recorded, and if the cash tips are a much lower percentage, they will know something isn't right.0 -
A person's occupation should not determine how we treat them. Every body deserves respect, and compassion, and kindness. But it should determine how much they are paid. It's the basic principal our society is founded on. And, while I have nothing but the utmost respect for food service workers (or any workers for that matter), I don't think it's our responsibility as consumers to supplement their income directly.
So basically you want all the luxuries that go along with eating out but none of the inconveniences. Nice.0 -
So basically you want all the luxuries that go along with eating out but none of the inconveniences. Nice.
I don't know why this is so hard to understand. It's my belief that when i go to a restaurant, I should be charged a fair price, which i then pay, and the restaurant should pay their employees a fair wage. Like I said previously ... I tip most of the time .
Somehow this makes me an *sshole though? I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly ...0 -
Reality is that that's what the reality is. We can rage, rage against whatever we want to rage against, but reality is that the restaurant pays that single mom (who was not born on third base, never hit a triple, and is doing the best she can and working harder than most of us ever will) $2 an hour because the owner and his golfing buddies at the C of C got the laws written that way.
If you don't make up the diff her kids go hungry. When you go to a restaurant you are charged a fair price, they just don't list all of the cost on the menu. That plate of spaghetti that's listed on the menu at $10 really costs $11.50, and if you don't like it you should stay home and cook your own $&%'ing dinner.
Unskilled indeed. :explode:0 -
i always tip (less for bad service), but I hate when servers act like they are entitled to it. And 15% is the highest i'll go. 20% seems like a little much to me.
Also, idk why this $2/hour is being thrown around all over this post. I know min. wage depends on where you live, and there can't be that many people in this post living in the same area. I have a few good friends who are servers and they make anywhere from $8-10/hour based on experience. Including tips, they make pretty good money for college students.0 -
The fact that nobody understands that I'm actually on the side of the employee, suggests that I've failed to adequately convey my point of view.
If you want to know the real minimum wage requirements by state for tipped employees, you can see them here:
http://www.paywizard.org/main/Minimumwageandovertime/MinimumWageTIPRecevers
In my state (Oregon) that minimum wage is $8.40 an hour, and an employer may not reduce that regardless of any tips the employee might have been given.
If you live in one of those other states, and you're unhappy with the situation, maybe it's time to start a grass roots movement and get some laws changed.
I think that would afford these workers much more stability and dignity than forcing them to depend on the consumers generosity at the point of service.0 -
The fact that nobody understands that I'm actually on the side of the employee, suggests that I've failed to adequately convey my point of view.
If you want to know the real minimum wage requirements by state for tipped employees, you can see them here:
http://www.paywizard.org/main/Minimumwageandovertime/MinimumWageTIPRecevers
In my state (Oregon) that minimum wage is $8.40 an hour, and an employer may not reduce that regardless of any tips the employee might have been given.
If you live in one of those other states, and you're unhappy with the situation, maybe it's time to start a grass roots movement and get some laws changed.
I think that would afford these workers much more stability and dignity than forcing them to depend on the consumers generosity at the point of service.
You sure are "sticking it to the man" by not tipping your servers. Way to fight the good fight!
I made way more than $8.40 an hour waiting tables, all in tips.
The dollar you didn't leave that bartender is as relevant as your beliefs on tipping are. Things are still the way they are regardless of what you believe is right, and that bartender easily afforded the -8 cents he paid to serve you with the tips he made from the rest of his guests. The large majority of people are respectful enough to leave a decent tip.0
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