Ending 1200 Calorie Bashing: Respecting Your Peers

It's actually NOT easy to be snarky and judgmental. I think most of us who roll our eyes at these "I'm different! I swear it! I will die if I eat more than 8 calories per day!" posts would truly LOVE to be able to discuss healthy food and fitness techniques with the new members of the site.

The problem is that most of the people who come here claiming to be looking for advice are really only looking for confirmation of their pre-existing misconceptions about weight-loss. And when you tell them they are wrong, they immediately get defensive. Any attempt to dissuade them from bowing before the systematic starvation throne is viewed as being mean, snarky, and judgmental.The people here who say "Eat more," "lift heavy weights," "stop doing 100 hours of cardio a week," etc., are people who have been there and done that and have learned from experience what is SUSTAINABLE and what only works for about six weeks.

Then there is the inevitable "my doctor told me to do this, so you must not know what you're talking about" nonsense. Allow me to clue you in: most doctors don't know their *kitten* from their carotid arteries when it comes to losing weight. They tell you to eat 1000 calories per day because they don't KNOW what else to tell you. They spend their careers wiping noses, writing prescriptions for antibiotics, and passing people off to specialists. Experience has taught them that telling you to starve yourself will cause you to drop a lot of weight in a short amount of time, thus convincing you of their brilliance ... before you inevitably crash and burn, blame yourself, and settle on the fact that losing weight is simply not possible for you because you don't have the requisite willpower or discipline. And if you could think for yourself, you might have realized at some point along the way that maybe your doctor was wrong.

If you don't want to take my word for it, that's actually a good sign because you absolutely SHOULD be doing real, independent research. Spend some time educating yourself rather than taking your doctor's advice as gospel.

It's actually NOT easy to be snarky and judgmental. I think most of us who roll our eyes at these "I'm different! I swear it! I will die if I eat more than 8 calories per day!" posts would truly LOVE to be able to discuss healthy food and fitness techniques with the new members of the site.

The problem is that most of the people who come here claiming to be looking for advice are really only looking for confirmation of their pre-existing misconceptions about weight-loss. And when you tell them they are wrong, they immediately get defensive. Any attempt to dissuade them from bowing before the systematic starvation throne is viewed as being mean, snarky, and judgmental.The people here who say "Eat more," "lift heavy weights," "stop doing 100 hours of cardio a week," etc., are people who have been there and done that and have learned from experience what is SUSTAINABLE and what only works for about six weeks.

Then there is the inevitable "my doctor told me to do this, so you must not know what you're talking about" nonsense. Allow me to clue you in: most doctors don't know their *kitten* from their carotid arteries when it comes to losing weight. They tell you to eat 1000 calories per day because they don't KNOW what else to tell you. They spend their careers wiping noses, writing prescriptions for antibiotics, and passing people off to specialists. Experience has taught them that telling you to starve yourself will cause you to drop a lot of weight in a short amount of time, thus convincing you of their brilliance ... before you inevitably crash and burn, blame yourself, and settle on the fact that losing weight is simply not possible for you because you don't have the requisite willpower or discipline. And if you could think for yourself, you might have realized at some point along the way that maybe your doctor was wrong.

If you don't want to take my word for it, that's actually a good sign because you absolutely SHOULD be doing real, independent research. Spend some time educating yourself rather than taking your doctor's advice as gospel.

I think I love you.

Ditto.

It's actually NOT easy to be snarky and judgmental. I think most of us who roll our eyes at these "I'm different! I swear it! I will die if I eat more than 8 calories per day!" posts would truly LOVE to be able to discuss healthy food and fitness techniques with the new members of the site.

The problem is that most of the people who come here claiming to be looking for advice are really only looking for confirmation of their pre-existing misconceptions about weight-loss. And when you tell them they are wrong, they immediately get defensive. Any attempt to dissuade them from bowing before the systematic starvation throne is viewed as being mean, snarky, and judgmental.The people here who say "Eat more," "lift heavy weights," "stop doing 100 hours of cardio a week," etc., are people who have been there and done that and have learned from experience what is SUSTAINABLE and what only works for about six weeks.

Then there is the inevitable "my doctor told me to do this, so you must not know what you're talking about" nonsense. Allow me to clue you in: most doctors don't know their *kitten* from their carotid arteries when it comes to losing weight. They tell you to eat 1000 calories per day because they don't KNOW what else to tell you. They spend their careers wiping noses, writing prescriptions for antibiotics, and passing people off to specialists. Experience has taught them that telling you to starve yourself will cause you to drop a lot of weight in a short amount of time, thus convincing you of their brilliance ... before you inevitably crash and burn, blame yourself, and settle on the fact that losing weight is simply not possible for you because you don't have the requisite willpower or discipline. And if you could think for yourself, you might have realized at some point along the way that maybe your doctor was wrong.

If you don't want to take my word for it, that's actually a good sign because you absolutely SHOULD be doing real, independent research. Spend some time educating yourself rather than taking your doctor's advice as gospel.

Well said! This should be pinned to the top of every forum on this site.

Allow me to clue you in: most doctors don't know their *kitten* from their carotid arteries when it comes to losing weight. They tell you to eat 1000 calories per day because they don't KNOW what else to tell you. They spend their careers wiping noses, writing prescriptions for antibiotics, and passing people off to specialists. Experience has taught them that telling you to starve yourself will cause you to drop a lot of weight in a short amount of time, thus convincing you of their brilliance ... before you inevitably crash and burn, blame yourself, and settle on the fact that losing weight is simply not possible for you because you don't have the requisite willpower or discipline. And if you could think for yourself, you might have realized at some point along the way that maybe your doctor was wrong.

Totally agree. Just because a doctor has decided that eating a VLC diet is the way to go doesn't make it any more right than someone who decides to do it on their own. I've been to lots of doctors that have told me things I totally disagree with which is why you seek a second or third opinion. Sticking the disclaimer on that a doctor recommended something doesn't mean it's any better.

Thanks for a well thought out positive post. I agree that we all have a different metabolism and that the one size fits all approach does not always work for everyone. I agree that there will be some people who by a doctors order need to be on a lower caloric intake. Education rather than insults or snarky comments will go further and help more people. Yet I also understand that there are people out there who are on a 1200 diet because they want to lose weight faster regardless of the cost to their health. I try to never read their posts of "I'm eating 1200 a day and I'm starving," or "Why can't I lose weight on 1200 a day?" There are so many with a slight variation on the same basic theme.
It brings to mind the saying "That a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." I see it a lot in the forums where people insist that their way is the only way to do weight loss. That one must eat 100% clean all the time or some other mantra. I'm a strong enough individual that I will do what I will do regardless of what others tell me I "have to." I was fortunate enough to be under the care of an excellent sports doctor back in New Zealand the first time I needed to increase my fitness and lose weight. It worked well but injury had me slowly packing the weight back on. I've gone back to those basic principals and they are working for me.
Just to clarify a point, I eat anywhere from 1410 to 3000 calories a day depending on how active I have been.

Awesome post.

What I don't understand is why so many people get upset when someone else, especially someone they don't know, have never met, tells them something that they (the listener) know to be untrue, incorrect, inappropriate, unsupported, or just plain dead wrong. Why get upset? If you are following the advice of a medical professional you trust, what some stranger or strange person says is irrelevant. Just ignore them. As they say in New York (Brooklyn anyway), "Fageddaboutit!"

What I don't understand is why so many people get upset when someone else, especially someone they don't know, have never met, tells them something that they (the listener) know to be untrue, incorrect, inappropriate, unsupported, or just plain dead wrong. Why get upset? If you are following the advice of a medical professional you trust, what some stranger or strange person says is irrelevant. Just ignore them. As they say in New York (Brooklyn anyway), "Fageddaboutit!"

This is true. But no one likes to be called stupid, and that does happen. To the point of bullying. Not everyone can ignore it when a whole group of "friends" gather together to ridicule them repeatedly. And even if one can ignore them, it's difficult and time consuming to weed through them to get to any posts that may actually be helpful. Or to find a like minded friend.

I’ve seen sensitive newbies bullied to the point of deactivating their account. More than once. Bullying is not trying to help someone or correct misinformation. As repugnant as it may be for some, it’s done purely for personal satisfaction.

The better question, IMO, is why do some people get so offensive when someone doesn’t want to take their suggestions? You offered your advice, why not let it go?

It's actually NOT easy to be snarky and judgmental. I think most of us who roll our eyes at these "I'm different! I swear it! I will die if I eat more than 8 calories per day!" posts would truly LOVE to be able to discuss healthy food and fitness techniques with the new members of the site.

The problem is that most of the people who come here claiming to be looking for advice are really only looking for confirmation of their pre-existing misconceptions about weight-loss. And when you tell them they are wrong, they immediately get defensive. Any attempt to dissuade them from bowing before the systematic starvation throne is viewed as being mean, snarky, and judgmental.The people here who say "Eat more," "lift heavy weights," "stop doing 100 hours of cardio a week," etc., are people who have been there and done that and have learned from experience what is SUSTAINABLE and what only works for about six weeks.

Then there is the inevitable "my doctor told me to do this, so you must not know what you're talking about" nonsense. Allow me to clue you in: most doctors don't know their *kitten* from their carotid arteries when it comes to losing weight. They tell you to eat 1000 calories per day because they don't KNOW what else to tell you. They spend their careers wiping noses, writing prescriptions for antibiotics, and passing people off to specialists. Experience has taught them that telling you to starve yourself will cause you to drop a lot of weight in a short amount of time, thus convincing you of their brilliance ... before you inevitably crash and burn, blame yourself, and settle on the fact that losing weight is simply not possible for you because you don't have the requisite willpower or discipline. And if you could think for yourself, you might have realized at some point along the way that maybe your doctor was wrong.

If you don't want to take my word for it, that's actually a good sign because you absolutely SHOULD be doing real, independent research. Spend some time educating yourself rather than taking your doctor's advice as gospel.

Smart girl is very smart.
Listen to smart girl.

Sure, I'll pull out some of the negative comments from that thread.
1) Women at 1200 calories must hate life
2) Women who eat 1200 calories have to be too short, otherwise they aren't doing it right
3) "If people would eat food that didn't screw up their bodies ability to regulate fat mass they could eat far more than that. Having to constantly go through life hungry is no way to live. And it honestly breaks my heart"

"Women at 1200" could be taken to mean, "all women at 1200, without exception" or it could be taken as "many women at 1200, with obvious exceptions such as medical conditions that affect their metabolism, and so on."

I'm not seeing how you arrive at the conclusion every time that it is the former. Given the intelligence level of the people writing those statements, I would expect them to know (and be implying) the latter. I think it is rather ridiculous to expect them to explain every single time that a blanket statement has exceptions.

Another blanket statement made on this site is that men can build muscle faster than women. I'll bet that there are some exceptions to that rule too. Should all the women who are exceptions get offended and assume that those blanket statements imply they are juicing? I don't bulk up easily, should I be all offended that they're saying I'm not a real man?

The problem with #3 of course being the implication that we are screwed up in some way and caused our own metabolic problems and, again, that we are starving and living unenjoyable lives.

There's no implication of any such thing. They are talking about "starvation mode" not PCOS or hypothyroidism. Even I can see that.

This basically goes on and on with every few posts. There is a repetitive assumption that anyone on a 1200 calorie diet is suffering and hurting themselves.

No, there isn't. The only assumption is inside your skull.

It is offensive. You might want to say "nah it's just what they think," but...it offends me. It offended several others. That's inarguable. The pity was just oppressive and unnecessary in a world where there is so much actual suffering to concern oneself with.

I think others (whose goal in posting is to help others find a way to get healthy) might find it offensive that you expect everyone to write a huge disclaimer for your benefit every time they talk about a 1200 calorie diet.

This is such an important post - well written and right on target. Every individual is different in how they metabolize food and in the ways that food becomes a trigger to increased weight gain. I am insulin resistant and am saving a copy of this post to refer to when I next see my doctor. The MFP is great for tracking what I'm eating, the amounts, and the comments of others with similar issues are helpful - when they aren't coupled with mis-information. There's so much to learn about the science of weight-loss and why/how we gain weight, but it is vitally important that we know ourselves and are honest about what and how we are eating. Natalie's comments are my reason for finding positive information on MFP.

It matters not, you are doing it wrong and there are people here DYING to tell you why. There will be the "you are lying" crowd, the "you can't count" crowd, and the very soapboxy "snowflake" crowd.

Every human is a machine, every machine is the same, and calories in=calories out period.

EDIT: My whole post is sarcasm towards the people mentioned in my post, not you OP.

Exactly.

I was advised to eat 1280 calories by MFP.

Just to beat my own dead horse here, MFP did not advise you to EAT 1280. MFP advised you to NET 1280-meaning you should be eating more than than when you workout (or averaged out over the week-however). MFP does not tell people to EAT 1200 calories (or any other amount). If you eat your exercise calories (as you should-at least in another 6 weeks when you're tired and cranky you should start), you'll be eating more than 1280-which is what MFP advised you to do.

I was advised to eat 1280 calories by MFP.

Just to beat my own dead horse here, MFP did not advise you to EAT 1280. MFP advised you to NET 1280-meaning you should be eating more than than when you workout (or averaged out over the week-however). MFP does not tell people to EAT 1200 calories (or any other amount). If you eat your exercise calories (as you should-at least in another 6 weeks when you're tired and cranky you should start), you'll be eating more than 1280-which is what MFP advised you to do.

This sick of people messing this up. Lets exercise 1000 calories a day and then only eat 1300. Your body cannot live off 300 calories and be healthy. Will you survive probably, but youll likely have side effects

I find it very interesting that high v. low calorie is such an emotive issue on mfp. I started on mfp with 1200kcal + exercise and I BELIEVED it must be right. I believed that my maintenance must be 1700kcal as mfp said because, if 2000kcal was the average, and I was smaller than average it made perfect sense. However, when mfp thought I should lose 1lb a week, I lost closer to 3lb a week, which wasn't my aim with only 10lb left to lose (I had lost 20lb pre mfp, but wanted to slow down).

Through experimentation I found my maintenance calories to be around 2400 + exercise. I made friends who ate a similar amount, because it can be hard for people to relate to someone eating so much on a weight loss website. It was interesting, at that point, to find that people BELIEVED in eating 2000+kcal, just as I had believed in eating 1200. I believe now that eating 1200kcal, even with added exercise, was very bad FOR ME. It was a cut of around 50% of TDEE! I started hot flushing if I had a high calorie meal and blood tests showed I was anaemic, which I had never been before, despite being vegetarian since the age of 11-23, then pescatarian up to then.

If someone asks about low calorie versus high calorie, I will tell my story. If someone can't stick to 1200kcal and binges, I will suggest eating more. However, I have friends who eat little through their own experimentations, rather than a belief, in which case I normally leave them to it. I don't BELIEVE in high calorie, it's just my reality, and others' reality may differ from my own.

Thank you to the OP for being so reasonable and lucid. The Scottish study is fascinating, as mainly I hear there is little difference in BMR between individuals. When I first found I had to eat so much not to lose I thought I must be ill, but maybe I just have a high BMR.