muscle heavier... yes, but when

1newcat · February 2013

I think in this time of immediate gradification, my perception of time is skewed. Weighed in today, wasn't too pleased, but not annoyed either. I was discussing it and got the whole muscle weighs more thing, but what is the average time that would actually affect a weigh-in? I do strength training with my trainer 4x/week and have only been at it 6 weeks. Just want to make sure i am not writing off lack of progress on the heavy muscle reasoning if i wouldn't even be there yet. Thoughts?

RunDoozer · February 2013

Truthfully the only way you would get a real answer to that is a dexa scan. Before and after to compare. And since that's really expensive.

People add muscle a lot slower than they think they actually do. But newbie gains can be attributed to muscle increase.

The best way to tell right now would be taking measurements vs the scale. You will see the most progress that way.

Hard to guess at how much muscle id say 2-5 lbs max. But thats just a guess.

A lot of it could be water weight too as you're training 4 days a week. Your muscles need time to repair.

sweetcurlz67 · February 2013

Yesterday I posted the following: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/874253-fat-vs-muscle

jar41yo6m · February 2013

You can take measurements and use online calculators to estimate your body fat and lean mass. Somebody on here recommended fat2fitradio.com and it is a good site for this and estimating your calorie needs.

Granted calculators aren't the most accurate, but you should still see a trend.

I'm pretty focused on adding lean mass, by my calculations I've added a pound every 8 days. I don't know what other people's experience has been, but in 6 weeks you could have added several pounds of lean mass if your eating right and doing resistance training.

T1mH · February 2013

Except for certain exceptions you can't build muscle with a calorie deficit. The body is either burning or building, it doesn't do both at the same time. This is why body builders bulk and cut. While bulking they are building muscle but also adding fat. When they have added the amount of muscle they want they then cut to lose the fat while attempting to retain as much muscle as possible.

1newcat · February 2013

Except for certain exceptions you can't build muscle with a calorie deficit. The body is either burning or building, it doesn't do both at the same time. This is why body builders bulk and cut. While bulking they are building muscle but also adding fat. When they have added the amount of muscle they want they then cut to lose the fat while attempting to retain as much muscle as possible.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say this, tho it does make sense... so, that being said tho, how do i feel muscles forming now? Are they just always there and resurfacing? Sorry if i sound like an idiot.... but that is contrary to what the trainer has been preaching. In that model, i would think its counter productive to do strength training while losing. Sounds like i should've stuck to a cardio only program till i got closer to my goal

Cait_Sidhe · February 2013

It's virtually impossible to build muscle while on a calorie deficit. And given that you're female, even more so impossible.

If you're feeling muscles that you didn't think were there before, it's because the layer of fat covering them is smaller (this is good!). The reason to continue to do strength training while losing is so that you don't lose the lean body mass you already have. And being strong is awesome.

Crankstr · February 2013

It's virtually impossible to build muscle while on a calorie deficit. And given that you're female, even more so impossible.

If you're feeling muscles that you didn't think were there before, it's because the layer of fat covering them is smaller (this is good!). The reason to continue to do strength training while losing is so that you don't lose the lean body mass you already have. And being strong is awesome.

couldnt have said it better

VelociMama · February 2013

It's virtually impossible to build muscle while on a calorie deficit. And given that you're female, even more so impossible.

If you're feeling muscles that you didn't think were there before, it's because the layer of fat covering them is smaller (this is good!). The reason to continue to do strength training while losing is so that you don't lose the lean body mass you already have. And being strong is awesome.

All of this plus the extra fluid retention in the muscle can make it appear and feel firmer than before. It's not necessarily new muscle growth.

rainbowbow · February 2013

It's virtually impossible to build muscle while on a calorie deficit. And given that you're female, even more so impossible.

If you're feeling muscles that you didn't think were there before, it's because the layer of fat covering them is smaller (this is good!). The reason to continue to do strength training while losing is so that you don't lose the lean body mass you already have. And being strong is awesome.

All of this plus the extra fluid retention in the muscle can make it appear and feel firmer than before. It's not necessarily new muscle growth.

Exactly. If you are eating in a caloric deficit you are NOT building muscle. You may be storing more water to repair atrophied muscles but you are not "gaining muscle".

Additionally 1 pound of muscle weighs the same as 1 pound of fat.

Sunny820 · February 2013

I’m going to go ahead and sort of disagree with some of these others.

Elisabat alluded to this, but don’t discount the “use it or lose it” reaction our bodies have. I personally think that I was at my best when I was only lifting regularly, intensely for strength gains, with minimal cardio and eating well. I think/believe that if you are challenging your body to perform, it will have to/end up trying to build muscle to be able to do what you are asking it to do. As for the question about building muscle on a deficit, I would ask how much of a deficit are you on now? If you make up your exercise calories with good muscle building nutrition, from what I have read and experienced, you are still going to build some muscle, not a ton, but some.

I am a firm believer that (as much as it sucks) nutrition is 85% of the solution. Cardio, at least the usual long time/long distance cardio, does burn calories, but it doesn’t have the same after-burn as a good lift session and it also can’t contribute significantly to any muscle mass. Of cardio for weight loss, interval/hi-intensity work seems to do best

I would also argue that those body builders that choose to bulk and cut will in the long term see more difficulties with losing the weight again. Yo-yo dieting isn’t good for anyone. The ones that compete for life live lean all of the time. You have heard it before, but it is a life style.

Weight loss recipe.. good nutrition, interval training, and strength training.

rainbowbow · February 2013

I have been bulking and cutting and have had no issues whatsoever getting to a low body fat percentage. Please explain how somehow putting on more muscle mass lowers your metabolism or makes it harder to lose fat?

Additionally, I think you lack the physiological understanding that muscle cannot be created without the energy to do so. You cannot BUILD new muscle fibers without an excess of calories. Period.

Now can you strengthen the muscle you DO have? Absolutely! Especially considered muscles are atrophied from even weeks off from the gym. Can you make STRENGTH gains? Absolutely! Can you lose body fat allowing the mass you already have to look better? Yes! This does not mean you are building muscle. And this absolutely does not mean you are gaining muscle weight which is counteracting your fat loss.

In a perfect world this would be the case. But it simply does not work that way.

OP, I suggest you get a ruler and track measurements or track body fat (your trainer should be able to help you). Going by the scale is usually setting yourself up for disappointment.

I’m going to go ahead and sort of disagree with some of these others.

Elisabat alluded to this, but don’t discount the “use it or lose it” reaction our bodies have. I personally think that I was at my best when I was only lifting regularly, intensely for strength gains, with minimal cardio and eating well. I think/believe that if you are challenging your body to perform, it will have to/end up trying to build muscle to be able to do what you are asking it to do. As for the question about building muscle on a deficit, I would ask how much of a deficit are you on now? If you make up your exercise calories with good muscle building nutrition, from what I have read and experienced, you are still going to build some muscle, not a ton, but some.

I am a firm believer that (as much as it sucks) nutrition is 85% of the solution. Cardio, at least the usual long time/long distance cardio, does burn calories, but it doesn’t have the same after-burn as a good lift session and it also can’t contribute significantly to any muscle mass. Of cardio for weight loss, interval/hi-intensity work seems to do best

I would also argue that those body builders that choose to bulk and cut will in the long term see more difficulties with losing the weight again. Yo-yo dieting isn’t good for anyone. The ones that compete for life live lean all of the time. You have heard it before, but it is a life style.

Weight loss recipe.. good nutrition, interval training, and strength training.

Cait_Sidhe · February 2013

I’m going to go ahead and sort of disagree with some of these others.

Elisabat alluded to this {deleted}

No I didn't.

1newcat · February 2013

Roger that, makes sense. Thanks for the feedback all!

muscle heavier... yes, but when

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