Stronger abs, thinner waist.. Broscience?

I dont really think so. Perhaps, but then again the muscle is going to hypertrophy at least a tiny bit and probably make up for what it may have 'thightened up' (if anything).

Yes you need to remove fat in order to see the abs, but thats not at all to say that ab training right now will be a waste of time. Just don't over look that you've got to do other forms of exercise to maximize calorie burn (as i'm sure you wont).

Honestly, you don't need to have SUPER low body fat before you start seeing a more athletic midsection, but the less you have the more you will see of course.

i think her point is that 'tightening' itself is probably a misnomer.

muscles gain or lose mass depending on training or nutrition... so i guess by that evalution they can only add inches to wasteline if trainned more lol.

What are your abs holding in tighter? Your organs?

That's my question.

The fat that you can see is subcutaneous, on top of the muscles.

Abs are muscles, they can get firmer and bigger with training, muscles don't get trained and become smaller, ever.

Of course, what's your point?

Serious? The point is it's subcutaneous fat making your waistline bigger, training those muscles specifically can do nothing but make it bigger, not smaller. It's fat loss that will make your waistline smaller, through calorie deficit.

A small caveat is that muscle, when trained, does have a hormonal release that helps drive fat loss, so there *might* be some science there...however, ab muscles are teeny-tiny, and it's the mass of the muscle being used that drives the hormonal part- so training abs for that purpose is mostly a waste of time- you get WAY more bang for your buck out of your glutes, lats, quads, hamstrings, pecs, etc. Essentially, lifting the BIG muscles will be much more effective for fat loss than the abs can ever be- and then there's the problematic byproduct of your abs potentially getting bigger in the process, making your waist thicker when you're going for smaller.

Serious? The point is it's subcutaneous fat making your waistline bigger, training those muscles specifically can do nothing but make it bigger, not smaller. It's fat loss that will make your waistline smaller, through calorie deficit.

A small caveat is that muscle, when trained, does have a hormonal release that helps drive fat loss, so there *might* be some science there...however, ab muscles are teeny-tiny, and it's the mass of the muscle being used that drives the hormonal part- so training abs for that purpose is mostly a waste of time- you get WAY more bang for your buck out of your glutes, lats, quads, hamstrings, pecs, etc. Essentially, lifting the BIG muscles will be much more effective for fat loss than the abs can ever be- and then there's the problematic byproduct of your abs potentially getting bigger in the process, making your waist thicker when you're going for smaller.

I may have been a bit too blunt, but I know that losing fat is the answer.... I don't do any specific ab work currently. Just running and SL5x5.
If there was a benefit to doing specific ab work now, ie an improvement on my waistline.. Then I'd probably consider adding in an ab routine to some of my workouts.

The compound lifts in SL will work your abs plenty. You don't need to add any specific ab work unless you find yourself with weaknesses where your abs are holding back your lifts.

ETA: There's nothing WRONG with doing it if you want to, but just do it at the end of your workout, if you have time kind of thing. You don't want to tire those muscles and then have it effect your big lifts.

It won't work quite like that, but if you are managing your diet (which I'm assuming you are since you're here) and continuing to do weight training, the training will simultaneously burn calories and speed up your metabolism. So, yeah, eventually your stomach will be "tighter" but because of fat loss, not muscle gain.

idk, i see a lot of people saying that you just have to do deadlifts and squats and what not and the abs will just develope.

True all these lifts will involve your midsection to some degree, and perhaps for some thats going to be enough... it was not for me. And probably those people would see significantly more development if they did the right ab exercises, but it may not be that important to them.

Personally, i didn't see any development until i got a good routine and followed it religiously (it was progressive so i didn't have to worry too much about changing things up) and put it at the begining of the work out. Quite frankly thats what i wanted so i put it first and that makes a lot of sense to me. found it to be a great warm up for both cardio or lifting.

I would say there is a benefit of doing ab exercises now, that being that you will already have them when you strip some more fat. i am fairly happy with what i see in the mirror and i'm lucky if im 18% bf

So not a bro, but I will give you my personal experience. I think the whole you can't spot reduce is ridiculous. I carry weight in my thighs and wonder of wonder when I worked my thighs they got smaller. Yes, I was losing weight over all, but I remember my measurements from before (lowest weight) and they are smaller than then. Ditto with my waist. Also, yes working on my abdominal wall did help hold my organs in, but then again mine were split down the middle from my pregnancy with twins. So there you go and everbody can say what they want about causation, but it work for me and I am happy.

Yep, that's what happened.

idk, i see a lot of people saying that you just have to do deadlifts and squats and what not and the abs will just develope.

True all these lifts will involve your midsection to some degree, and perhaps for some thats going to be enough... it was not for me. And probably those people would see significantly more development if they did the right ab exercises, but it may not be that important to them.

Personally, i didn't see any development until i got a good routine and followed it religiously (it was progressive so i didn't have to worry too much about changing things up) and put it at the begining of the work out. Quite frankly thats what i wanted so i put it first and that makes a lot of sense to me. found it to be a great warm up for both cardio or lifting.

I would say there is a benefit of doing ab exercises now, that being that you will already have them when you strip some more fat. i am fairly happy with what i see in the mirror and i'm lucky if im 18% bf

This is what I've also found in my experience. The people with the best looking abs are the ones doing ab work. Even if they don't do them currently they did them at some point and now maintain them with compound work only. But if they have a physique comp coming up, they resume direct work again.

This is not to say that the OP needs more ab work. Whatever abs he has will only show when he loses weight and the idea that stronger abs will shrink his waist is farcical

moustache_fla, did you draw this? It's awesome!

What if he's not a powerlifter? What are all these big lifts he has to stay fresh for?

Even if you're not a powerlifter, if you're lifting weights you should be doing compound lifts, period.

This. Anyone and everyone that isn't physically hindered, should be doing compound lifts, if they have even the slightest interest in strength training.

So if you imagine an over-weight guy who doesn't workout and has a big beer belly.....
(Like 80% of the blokes wearing Speedos when I was last on holiday - yuk!)

Is all that beer belly really just fat on top of flat abs? Or is some of that belly distended, weak abdominal muscle and guts bulging?
Anyone seen any body scans to confirm one way or the other?

Personally I believe that strong abs will make you look slimmer and give you better posture way before your body fat drops enough to actually see any definition.

FAt on top of muscle. Guts bulging usually comes from enlarged organs. Though you can have visceral fat too.
Fat AND a six pack usually indicates use of growth hormone, causing enlarged organs..

moustache_fla, did you draw this? It's awesome!

I concur! (sorry, I just can't bring myself to say "i know, right?"; too old perhaps)

There is ONE thing besides diet that will make your midsection small. Vacuums. Like the old school bodybuilders used to do regularly. Google it. It's a totally different ab strength than crunches will give you.

you can also get HYOOGE shoulders and thighs, and leave the waist the same.

So not a bro, but I will give you my personal experience. I think the whole you can't spot reduce is ridiculous. I carry weight in my thighs and wonder of wonder when I worked my thighs they got smaller. Yes, I was losing weight over all, but I remember my measurements from before (lowest weight) and they are smaller than then. Ditto with my waist. Also, yes working on my abdominal wall did help hold my organs in, but then again mine were split down the middle from my pregnancy with twins. So there you go and everbody can say what they want about causation, but it worked for me and I am happy.


ETA - my current profile pic is from last year. Otherwise, I really wouldn't take ab advice from someones belly who looks like that.:laugh:

Good to know. I would much rather except anecdotal evidence from someone on the internet than established science and actual research studies.