what is a plateau, and does it really exist?

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jacksonpt
jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
I'm not sure I buy into the whole notion of plateaus. I generally think they happen for 1 of 2 reasons:
1) people get lazy, either with their diet or with their exercise. Eating gets sloppy, workouts get soft.
2) people don't change their diet/workouts as their ability/weight/goals change.

If you're eating and working out based on your current goals/fitness level, why would you plateau?

Agree? Disagree? Why?
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Replies

  • tricksee
    tricksee Posts: 835 Member
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    Genetics? Some peoples genetics only allow them to go so far.

    Plus a mixture of your points 1 & 2.
  • Greenrun99
    Greenrun99 Posts: 2,065 Member
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    1) people get lazy, either with their diet or with their exercise. Eating gets sloppy, workouts get soft.
    2) people don't change their diet/workouts as their ability/weight/goals change.

    Generally agree, but there are a bunch more variables then the generalizations.. But either way, they do exist, and most people hit them.. its just how long do you stay in it before you change or refocus your goals.
  • Energizer06
    Energizer06 Posts: 311 Member
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    AGREE AND DISAGREE

    "Stall out" does occur.

    Best thing to do if for a 2-3 week period of no change in %BF, measurements, scale, etc.....

    Don't workout and eat horribly bad for a couple of days....eat the whole freaking pizza, eat the ice cream (full fat baby) the good stuff

    Then after Day 2 get back on track....It's like rebooting your body....

    "Nutrition is a diet........Nutrition with exercise is a LIFESTYLE"
  • rocket_ace
    rocket_ace Posts: 380 Member
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    agree whole heartily - its part of the process though if you have lots of weight to lose....
  • KristenE83
    KristenE83 Posts: 187 Member
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    2) people don't change their diet/workouts as their ability/weight/goals change.

    I'm on a plateau(ish) now and I kinda agree w/ #2. I have been busting my *kitten* and I'm kind of stuck because my routine isn't working for me. I am actively changing it cuz I need to smash this next 50 asap... but recognizing that the plateau is kinda self-created is half the battle. I'm too conditioned to the workouts I do now (good problem?!?)... time to change it up! I'm adding a lot of strength training w/ the thought that building muscles will burn more cals. At least I think thats how it works.


    Edit*** Yes they exist, No they are not mysterious or unavoidable
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    I'm too conditioned to the workouts I do now

    Does this really happen though? As I get "better" at something (either stronger with my lifting, faster with my running, etc) I push myself harder (I lift heavier, I run faster/longer, etc) and have never noticed my body get too conditioned.

    Do they get conditioned to the workout, or conditioned to the intensity of the workout?
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    "Stall out" does occur.

    why?
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    1) people get lazy, either with their diet or with their exercise. Eating gets sloppy, workouts get soft.
    2) people don't change their diet/workouts as their ability/weight/goals change.

    Generally agree, but there are a bunch more variables then the generalizations.. But either way, they do exist, and most people hit them.. its just how long do you stay in it before you change or refocus your goals.

    Care to elaborate?
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    What do you define as a plateau?
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    What do you define as a plateau?

    That's part of my question. Seems like most people talk about them as a fairly sudden but somewhat prolonged lack of results/progress.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    What do you define as a plateau?

    That's part of my question. Seems like most people talk about them as a fairly sudden but somewhat prolonged lack of results/progress.

    Let me rephrase: What metric are you using? Losing weight? Gaining LBM? Gaining Weight? Lifts going up?
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    What do you define as a plateau?

    That's part of my question. Seems like most people talk about them as a fairly sudden but somewhat prolonged lack of results/progress.

    Let me rephrase: What metric are you using? Losing weight? Gaining LBM? Gaining Weight? Lifts going up?

    Seems like most people use the term with respect to weight loss, which is what spurred the post. IMO, strength related plateaus are more plausible as strength and mass are linked, and at some point you'll hit a ceiling with one if you're not also progressing in the other. At least in theory... not sure how that works out in the real world though.
  • rocket_ace
    rocket_ace Posts: 380 Member
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    I think we are all just over-lawyering this. you can define "plateau" to be either real or un-real, so I think this is just semantics. do people stop losing weight (stop making advances)? yes. Is there a reason for it? yes, and the answer is usually some component of not pushing yourself hard enough (in line w/ your current fitness level) or getting lazy. I think the one thing that this question may actually have some use is the concept of a "set point" - ie/ is there a level (or levels) where it becomes hard if not impossible to get beyond. the answer is - who knows? the science is out.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    What do you define as a plateau?

    That's part of my question. Seems like most people talk about them as a fairly sudden but somewhat prolonged lack of results/progress.

    Let me rephrase: What metric are you using? Losing weight? Gaining LBM? Gaining Weight? Lifts going up?

    Seems like most people use the term with respect to weight loss, which is what spurred the post. IMO, strength related plateaus are more plausible as strength and mass are linked, and at some point you'll hit a ceiling with one if you're not also progressing in the other. At least in theory... not sure how that works out in the real world though.

    Well in the general context of obese or overweight I would say that yes plateaus exist if we define plateau as "not making any progress".

    I think they exist mostly out of user error and I think they happen due to failure to maintain an energy deficit. My belief is that this failure comes from intake errors and adaptive thermogenesis. Hormones obviously play a role here but you can always create an energy deficit even if metabolic downregulation occurs. Impatience, lack of adherence, failure to take diet breaks at reasonable intervals, downregulation of NEAT, all kinds of things working against prolonged weightloss.

    So I'd say yes they exist, but not in the context that people usually think. They usually think "I just can't lose weight and I'm doing everything right".
  • GauchoMark
    GauchoMark Posts: 1,804 Member
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    my take on plateaus:

    1) If you are really eating at a deficit, they don't STOP weight loss, they slow it. It is your body's way of conserving energy to make the most of your intake, but your body can't overcome thermodynamics and magically produce energy.

    2) Most people on here think they are plateaued because they aren't taking good enough measurements over a long enough period of time to tell the difference.

    3) If you are eating at a small deficit and manage to slow your metabolism enough, you CAN stop weight loss, but only because you aren't eating at a deficit anymore. IE - typical TDEE = 2000 cal; losing weight at a 125 calorie deficit; manage to slow metabolism by 125 calories; new deficit = 0 = maintaining weight.

    4) People tend to no recalculate their BMR often enough, which can cause a perceived plateau because you don't need as many calories now.

    5) No plateau can't be broken by reducing calories again.

    6) eating more to lose weight works in some cases, but is abused considerably on this site.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    my take on plateaus:

    1) If you are really eating at a deficit, they don't STOP weight loss, they slow it. It is your body's way of conserving energy to make the most of your intake, but your body can't overcome thermodynamics and magically produce energy.

    2) Most people on here think they are plateaued because they aren't taking good enough measurements over a long enough period of time to tell the difference.

    3) If you are eating at a small deficit and manage to slow your metabolism enough, you CAN stop weight loss, but only because you aren't eating at a deficit anymore. IE - typical TDEE = 2000 cal; losing weight at a 125 calorie deficit; manage to slow metabolism by 125 calories; new deficit = 0 = maintaining weight.

    4) People tend to no recalculate their BMR often enough, which can cause a perceived plateau because you don't need as many calories now.

    5) No plateau can't be broken by reducing calories again.

    6) eating more to lose weight works in some cases, but is abused considerably on this site.

    ^ And I agree with all of this
  • CristinaL1983
    CristinaL1983 Posts: 1,119 Member
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    I agree with you! I think that plateaus do happen pretty much for the reasons you listed. I think there can be additional factors such as water retention (for short term plateaus) and sometimes, I think that people don't see their weight move for a short period of time (or it's slower than they want) so they end up tracking but they aren't being as careful as they used to be. So in reality, calories are underestimated by a lot (most articles cite 30% as a figure) and of course, they are pretty much eating at their maintenance calories even though they are tracking within their goal.

    I read an article once (I think on Mayo clinic but I'm not positive) and a doctor was quoted saying that he had people who came to him saying that they weren't losing weight even though they were only eating 1200 cal a day. He said that as soon as you put those people in a room and start feeding them 1200 calories, they immediately started losing weight. Part of it was underestimating calorie intake and part was estimating calorie output.

    I've seen so many posts on here saying that people's weight loss will stall out if they eat below their BMR or don't eat enough but that simply is not scientifically accurate. Scientific study has shown again and again that if you aren't losing weight it is because calories in = calories out and are not less. [Though again if it is a short term plateau, it could easily be water retention due to any number of causes including TOM or muscle repair etc...]
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,867 Member
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    If you're eating and working out based on your current goals/fitness level, why would you plateau?

    Agree? Disagree? Why?

    I think that is the key right there. It seems to me that a lot of people set calorie goals at xxxx calories per day...and then shoot drastically below those goals by either not eating enough in general or doing butt loads of cardio to make a bigger deficit. Thus, they aren't really achieving their goals and these are the people that seem to have plateau issues.

    Also, it seems that when you eat at a deficit...even if it's a relatively modest one, for some length of time, your body just adjusts to that caloric intake. I don't know if it really matters, but I take a diet break every 6-8 weeks and eat to right around maintenance for a week. I haven't plateaued yet, but I'm can't say definitively if that is the reason or not.
  • Live_To_Kayak
    Live_To_Kayak Posts: 16
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    1) people get lazy, either with their diet or with their exercise. Eating gets sloppy, workouts get soft.
    2) people don't change their diet/workouts as their ability/weight/goals change.

    If you're eating and working out based on your current goals/fitness level, why would you plateau?

    Agree? Disagree? Why?

    There are certainly exceptions to the two conditions that you outlined. For instance, research has shown that diabetics tend to stall after losing 5 to 10% of their body weight and some have an exceedingly difficult time getting beyond that.
  • GauchoMark
    GauchoMark Posts: 1,804 Member
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    1) people get lazy, either with their diet or with their exercise. Eating gets sloppy, workouts get soft.
    2) people don't change their diet/workouts as their ability/weight/goals change.

    If you're eating and working out based on your current goals/fitness level, why would you plateau?

    Agree? Disagree? Why?

    There are certainly exceptions to the two conditions that you outlined. For instance, research has shown that diabetics tend to stall after losing 5 to 10% of their body weight and some have an exceedingly difficult time getting beyond that.

    One of the most fit people I have ever known was diabetic...

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