Question for Weight Lifters

Lunatic379 · February 2013

I'm a big free weight fan. Machines are great for some workouts, but how can you be lifting without enjoying squats and deadlifts with free weights!!

Been working out for over a year now, and never done either. I enjoy lifting a lot. If machines are good enough for pro body builders, then they are good enough for me. I'm not saying I only use machines, but use of machines is not a bad thing.

I work out by myself, so squatting to failure doesn't sound like a good idea to me without a spotter.

d2footballJRC · February 2013

I'm a big free weight fan. Machines are great for some workouts, but how can you be lifting without enjoying squats and deadlifts with free weights!!

Been working out for over a year now, and never done either. I enjoy lifting a lot. If machines are good enough for pro body builders, then they are good enough for me. I'm not saying I only use machines, but use of machines is not a bad thing.

I work out by myself, so squatting to failure doesn't sound like a good idea to me without a spotter.

#1. never said not to use machines at all.. hence.. machines are great for some workouts.
#2. never said you have to squat to failure.
#3. power racks. (Better than a spotter most of the time!)

;-)

d2footballJRC · February 2013

Thanks for the answer! Because I'm still low calorie my endurance is not what it should be for doing free weights. I better just stop trying to add more to the machines until I go maintenance then.

I wouldn't quite go that far. It's really an individual thing, but I have been increasing my weight and/or reps at every single workout since I started lifting, and up until a few days ago, I was in a 900 calorie daily deficit for that entire time (five months).

ETA: about weaning from the machines, yeah, definitely. They serve an excellent purpose as I mentioned, as accessories. Anyone who bases their entire strength regimen around them is setting themselves up for disappointment, imo.

Well I'm low carb as well as low calorie, oddly I find I can jog okay and pretty much walk until I'm bored silly and done with it for that reason and never have issues, but weights fatigue me. When I go maintenance I might try playing with those numbers a bit to find something that lets me work out harder without bringing back the horrible cravings.

When you have a very low calorie diet, your body will use muscle for energy. That's why very low calorie diets are NOT recommended for building muscle. Not only will you not build muscle, you will start using what muscle you do have for energy. You are shooting yourself in the foot with a low calorie diet.

This isn't 100% true. BCAA and high protein can greatly help in this manner. You most likely aren't going to build any muscle unless you are a freak of nature, but you can stop Muscle catabolism with BCAA's and high levels of protein.

(http://www.mindandmuscle.net/articles/bcaas-are-anti-catabolic-study-shows/)

Lunatic379 · February 2013

Going to failure is how I choose to workout. So when you say "but how can you be lifting without enjoying squats and deadlifts with free weights!!" it kind of implies that I can't be enjoying working out without doing those exercises. I enjoy working out, and don't do either of those. It sounded like you were pushing free weights over machines, I just choose to disagree that one is better than the other. If I misread your post, I apologize.

Lunatic379 · February 2013

Thanks for the answer! Because I'm still low calorie my endurance is not what it should be for doing free weights. I better just stop trying to add more to the machines until I go maintenance then.

I wouldn't quite go that far. It's really an individual thing, but I have been increasing my weight and/or reps at every single workout since I started lifting, and up until a few days ago, I was in a 900 calorie daily deficit for that entire time (five months).

ETA: about weaning from the machines, yeah, definitely. They serve an excellent purpose as I mentioned, as accessories. Anyone who bases their entire strength regimen around them is setting themselves up for disappointment, imo.

Well I'm low carb as well as low calorie, oddly I find I can jog okay and pretty much walk until I'm bored silly and done with it for that reason and never have issues, but weights fatigue me. When I go maintenance I might try playing with those numbers a bit to find something that lets me work out harder without bringing back the horrible cravings.

When you have a very low calorie diet, your body will use muscle for energy. That's why very low calorie diets are NOT recommended for building muscle. Not only will you not build muscle, you will start using what muscle you do have for energy. You are shooting yourself in the foot with a low calorie diet.

This isn't 100% true. BCAA and high protein can greatly help in this manner. You most likely aren't going to build any muscle unless you are a freak of nature, but you can stop Muscle catabolism with BCAA's and high levels of protein.

(http://www.mindandmuscle.net/articles/bcaas-are-anti-catabolic-study-shows/)

You just proved my point with your own post. The reason you're suggesting taking the BCAA's is to limit the catabolism of muscle that is going to occur from the low calorie diet.

d2footballJRC · February 2013

Going to failure is how I choose to workout. So when you say "but how can you be lifting without enjoying squats and deadlifts with free weights!!" it kind of implies that I can't be enjoying working out without doing those exercises. I enjoy working out, and don't do either of those. It sounded like you were pushing free weights over machines, I just choose to disagree that one is better than the other. If I misread your post, I apologize.

I do push free weights over machines. (They are better.)

Research has shown us that free weights promote quicker strength gains and they require more balance and coordination. Free weights use more muscle groups and tear muscle fibers than machines, per workout. Add in free weights allow a greater range of motion and are cheaper then machines on averages. There isn't much of a down side besides the need for a spotter or a power rack.

d2footballJRC · February 2013

Thanks for the answer! Because I'm still low calorie my endurance is not what it should be for doing free weights. I better just stop trying to add more to the machines until I go maintenance then.

I wouldn't quite go that far. It's really an individual thing, but I have been increasing my weight and/or reps at every single workout since I started lifting, and up until a few days ago, I was in a 900 calorie daily deficit for that entire time (five months).

ETA: about weaning from the machines, yeah, definitely. They serve an excellent purpose as I mentioned, as accessories. Anyone who bases their entire strength regimen around them is setting themselves up for disappointment, imo.

Well I'm low carb as well as low calorie, oddly I find I can jog okay and pretty much walk until I'm bored silly and done with it for that reason and never have issues, but weights fatigue me. When I go maintenance I might try playing with those numbers a bit to find something that lets me work out harder without bringing back the horrible cravings.

When you have a very low calorie diet, your body will use muscle for energy. That's why very low calorie diets are NOT recommended for building muscle. Not only will you not build muscle, you will start using what muscle you do have for energy. You are shooting yourself in the foot with a low calorie diet.

This isn't 100% true. BCAA and high protein can greatly help in this manner. You most likely aren't going to build any muscle unless you are a freak of nature, but you can stop Muscle catabolism with BCAA's and high levels of protein.

(http://www.mindandmuscle.net/articles/bcaas-are-anti-catabolic-study-shows/)

You just proved my point with your own post. The reason you're suggesting taking the BCAA's is to limit the catabolism of muscle that is going to occur from the low calorie diet.

Or you can just eat high protein, which will give you the same effect as BCAA's. You are making things too black and white.

Lunatic379 · February 2013

Thanks for the answer! Because I'm still low calorie my endurance is not what it should be for doing free weights. I better just stop trying to add more to the machines until I go maintenance then.

I wouldn't quite go that far. It's really an individual thing, but I have been increasing my weight and/or reps at every single workout since I started lifting, and up until a few days ago, I was in a 900 calorie daily deficit for that entire time (five months).

ETA: about weaning from the machines, yeah, definitely. They serve an excellent purpose as I mentioned, as accessories. Anyone who bases their entire strength regimen around them is setting themselves up for disappointment, imo.

Well I'm low carb as well as low calorie, oddly I find I can jog okay and pretty much walk until I'm bored silly and done with it for that reason and never have issues, but weights fatigue me. When I go maintenance I might try playing with those numbers a bit to find something that lets me work out harder without bringing back the horrible cravings.

When you have a very low calorie diet, your body will use muscle for energy. That's why very low calorie diets are NOT recommended for building muscle. Not only will you not build muscle, you will start using what muscle you do have for energy. You are shooting yourself in the foot with a low calorie diet.

This isn't 100% true. BCAA and high protein can greatly help in this manner. You most likely aren't going to build any muscle unless you are a freak of nature, but you can stop Muscle catabolism with BCAA's and high levels of protein.

(http://www.mindandmuscle.net/articles/bcaas-are-anti-catabolic-study-shows/)

You just proved my point with your own post. The reason you're suggesting taking the BCAA's is to limit the catabolism of muscle that is going to occur from the low calorie diet.

Or you can just eat high protein, which will give you the same effect as BCAA's. You are making things too black and white.

Again, I agree with your post, but you can't eat high protein if you're only eating 1000 calories. Not much room for high protein in that diet. Your arguing with me, and I agree with you, that's what I'm pointing out.

LJCannon · February 2013

:drinker: bump

Lunatic379 · February 2013

Going to failure is how I choose to workout. So when you say "but how can you be lifting without enjoying squats and deadlifts with free weights!!" it kind of implies that I can't be enjoying working out without doing those exercises. I enjoy working out, and don't do either of those. It sounded like you were pushing free weights over machines, I just choose to disagree that one is better than the other. If I misread your post, I apologize.

I do push free weights over machines. (They are better.)

Research has shown us that free weights promote quicker strength gains and they require more balance and coordination. Free weights use more muscle groups and tear muscle fibers than machines, per workout. Add in free weights allow a greater range of motion and are cheaper then machines on averages. There isn't much of a down side besides the need for a spotter or a power rack.

I see no problem with isolating muscle groups. And there are plenty of body builders who talk about this all over the internet. So to say (they are better) is only your opinion and is not shared by all body builders. Sorry I have to take their word over yours.

Lunatic379 · February 2013

When you look like someone I want to look like, then I will take your opinion into consideration. Till then, I'm doing fine, thanks for the advice though.

d2footballJRC · February 2013

When you look like someone I want to look like, then I will take your opinion into consideration. Till then, I'm doing fine, thanks for the advice though.

Yeah since people like Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler, Layne Norton have no idea what they are talking about. And the trainers at a University football program. You got me with what you read on the interwebs. ;-)

Lunatic379 · February 2013

You clearly just want to argue, you have your opinion, I have mine. I see videos of pro body builders using machines a lot. I even pointed one out in this thread. Good enough for me is all I'm saying.

Have a good night.

MaraDiaz · February 2013

I can work some more protein in pretty easily actually. I checked and I'm eating enough for someone at my weight who does regular workouts, but it didn't say anything about weight lifting, so maybe I need more.

d2footballJRC · February 2013

You clearly just want to argue, you have your opinion, I have mine. I see videos of pro body builders using machines a lot. I even pointed one out in this thread. Good enough for me is all I'm saying.

Have a good night.

Says the guy who started the argument. Then goes to call someone out on how they look. Glad I'm the one who just wants to argue.

d2footballJRC · February 2013

I can work some more protein in pretty easily actually. I checked and I'm eating enough for someone at my weight who does regular workouts, but it didn't say anything about weight lifting, so maybe I need more.

You can easily.. It's not like you are going to need 250g of protein a day to stop that effect.

Chicken Breast is 35 cals per ounce.. It's just over 5grams of protein per ounce.
Cottage Cheese is another great way.
Greek Yogurts.
Tuna
Pork Loin
Protein powders if you wanted
Etc...

Lunatic379 · February 2013

You clearly just want to argue, you have your opinion, I have mine. I see videos of pro body builders using machines a lot. I even pointed one out in this thread. Good enough for me is all I'm saying.

Have a good night.

Says the guy who started the argument. Then goes to call someone out on how they look. Glad I'm the one who just wants to argue.

I just take the advice of a professional body builder over someone on this site. And you have read otherwise, you should too.

d2footballJRC · February 2013

You clearly just want to argue, you have your opinion, I have mine. I see videos of pro body builders using machines a lot. I even pointed one out in this thread. Good enough for me is all I'm saying.

Have a good night.

Says the guy who started the argument. Then goes to call someone out on how they look. Glad I'm the one who just wants to argue.

I just take the advice of a professional body builder over someone on this site. And you have read otherwise, you should too.

Dude, you went to insults, I don't care what you choose. It just shows no matter what, I don't think too highly of you. Especially on a forum where you are suppose to try to be helpful to people. I was giving the OP some advice you wanted to chime in by completely reading into my post, to promote your own agenda. Then you actually insult someone on how they look. Really? You on a weight loss site. You need to check yourself a bit. I'm glad you have a hook up with a professional bodybuilder, why are you on these forums? Just to insult people?

Lunatic379 · February 2013

I'm not sure your reading my posts, or I'm not being clear enough. There are professional body builders on websites where you can see their routine. They use machines for a lot of their workout. Where did you get the idea I have some hook up? I only brought up the way you look because I was saying that when you look like them, then I will take your advice. Not that you look bad, but you don't want to look the way I want to....HELL neither do I though. Your guard is up for some reason, I guess because I disagree about using free weights. Sorry for having a different opinion.

geebusuk · February 2013

A training program for, say, a pro motorcycle racer may well not work nearly as effectively as one designed for a relative novice such as myself.
If I took instruction intended for a real expert, I may well find myself trying to do something that would end up with me hurting myself as I don't have good enough base skills.

And in the same manner, everything I've read suggests that it's best to start with the basic compound moves to build that basic foundation - and from there then consider moving on to moves that isolate specific muscles more as you start to run out of the 'big' ones.

I squat reasonably heavy alone - but will soon be adding some bars to drop the weights on to if needed.

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