Fat, Sick, And Nearly Dead

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Replies

  • stephgas
    stephgas Posts: 159 Member


    I'm at work so I can't go rummaging through my biochemistry textbooks but how about Medline Plus? I would also like to point out that most of the places you will see chanting that there are plenty of proteins in fruits and vegetables are texts that advocate a vegetarian diet and, in doing so, immediately expose their fatal flaw; they are inexplicably biased. Humans are omnivores and are healthiest when they consume a balanced diet. I would also like to point out that, if veggies and fruits contain complete proteins, why is it that I can sport a lbm of 250lbs+ (and so can a lot of other lifters with meat heavy diets) but vegans, aside from less than a handful of exceptions, are generally immaciated? The answer: because fruits and veggies don't contain enough proteins or the right amino acids to facilitate tissue repair. Why is this even an argument?

    this was the message of yours that i was responding to. unless i'm misreading it, you are stating the following:

    -most sources that claim there are plenty of proteins in fruits and veg are sources that promote a vegetarian diet, so they are biased.
    -humans are omnivores and need a balanced diet to be healthy (i inferred that you include animal products in a balanced diet)
    -that veggies and fruits cannot contain complete proteins because you have an LBM of 250lbs+ but most vegans are emaciated BECAUSE fruits and veg don't contain the proteins/amino acids for tissue repair.

    i'm not sure what i'm misreading there. because i'm pretty sure you're stating that most vegans and people who omit animal products from their diets are not healthy and cannot build muscles. i'm uncertain why this is turning into an argument.
  • WBB55
    WBB55 Posts: 4,131 Member
    The 1970s notion that you have to consume all of the essential amino acids at every meal has been proven to not be correct, as far as I know. For health, you just need to eat all of them on a regular basis. It doesn't matter if you only eat beans at lunch and then rice at dinner.

    "Complete protein" consumption for muscle gain and/or weight loss is a different thing, tho.
  • wibutterflymagic
    wibutterflymagic Posts: 788 Member
    Juicing is perfectly fine and it's not a true fast as you're eating vegetables much like a Vegan. If you feel you're not getting enough protein, you can always add in protein powder or whatever else you feel like you might be lacking. It's your blender, do what you want with it.

    I totally agree. People that have never seen this DOCUMENTARY(it's not a movie, it's not fiction) don't understand. Juicing is not fasting. You are still consuming food just in a liquid form vs. solid form. If you need protein add protein powders. People that have never juiced anything in their lives really don't understand and are really ignorant to the whole thing. I started juicing after I saw that documentary and even with only 1 or 2 juices a day I couldn't sustain the cost of it for more then a week and a 1/2. If I had the money and a vitamix blender I would so totally add juice to my diet.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,412 Member
    I admit, I only read the first five posts in this thread.

    My $.02.

    He changed his life. He was close to 400 lbs, if I remember correctly (watched it several months ago) . He was healthy at the end of it. He exercised. He changed his entire life. Many people who are that big lose significant weight on VLCDs. With proper planning and supervision, it absolutely makes sense.

    For people with 50 pounds to lose maybe not a good idea...maybe it is, I dunno. What I do know is that many people struggle with the physical and psychological addiction to sugars, fast foods, processed crap. They also battle the emotional side of losing weight, and the habits they have formed. The way the movie was structured - the way the plan was structured - those huge issues were addressed, too. That's a really important aspect of weight loss for people who have gone beyond the "extra 25-50 pounds."

    Save your damn lives, people. Whatever it takes!!!



    .*edit: I will learn to type. Someday. :grumble:
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
    Think of Juicing as an elaborate form of procrastination, to avoid getting into good eating habits.
  • Contrarian
    Contrarian Posts: 8,138 Member
    I like fresh juices, but I think incorporating them into your lifestyle along with eating food you have to chew is a better and more sustainable approach.

    Also, washing up the juicer is a ****ing drag.
  • stephgas
    stephgas Posts: 159 Member


    I'm at work so I can't go rummaging through my biochemistry textbooks but how about Medline Plus? I would also like to point out that most of the places you will see chanting that there are plenty of proteins in fruits and vegetables are texts that advocate a vegetarian diet and, in doing so, immediately expose their fatal flaw; they are inexplicably biased. Humans are omnivores and are healthiest when they consume a balanced diet. I would also like to point out that, if veggies and fruits contain complete proteins, why is it that I can sport a lbm of 250lbs+ (and so can a lot of other lifters with meat heavy diets) but vegans, aside from less than a handful of exceptions, are generally immaciated? The answer: because fruits and veggies don't contain enough proteins or the right amino acids to facilitate tissue repair. Why is this even an argument?

    this was the message of yours that i was responding to. unless i'm misreading it, you are stating the following:

    -most sources that claim there are plenty of proteins in fruits and veg are sources that promote a vegetarian diet, so they are biased.
    -humans are omnivores and need a balanced diet to be healthy (i inferred that you include animal products in a balanced diet)
    -that veggies and fruits cannot contain complete proteins because you have an LBM of 250lbs+ but most vegans are emaciated BECAUSE fruits and veg don't contain the proteins/amino acids for tissue repair.

    i'm not sure what i'm misreading there. because i'm pretty sure you're stating that most vegans and people who omit animal products from their diets are not healthy and cannot build muscles. i'm uncertain why this is turning into an argument.

    Well I guess you have it all figured out then. Hmmm. Must be why you're so ripped.

    ah, personal attacks, brilliant. i'd love to have an intelligent debate/discussion about this and see why you believe that vegans cannot be 'ripped', but apparently that's impossible on the internet. i wish you luck in your endeavors.
  • Lupercalia
    Lupercalia Posts: 1,857 Member

    i'm all for a healthy debate, but i don't like when misinformation or opinion is stated as fact because it may mislead other people. humans do not need to consume animal products to be healthy and obtain all of the nutrients necessary for optimum health.

    Well, then you shouldn't be stating that humans don't need animal products to be healthy. Some humans DO. This human does, so does my teenage son. I was a veggie/vegan/raw vegan for 20 yrs--over half my life at the time I stopped. My son was a veggie his entire life. We were both pretty ill, and for entirely different reasons, but in both cases it was due entirely to our "healthy" vegan/veggie diets and active lifestyles. The good news is that our health issues were all sorted out by adding animal products back to our diets a couple years ago.
  • crunchybubblez
    crunchybubblez Posts: 387 Member
    I juiced for breakfast, and sometimes for lunch, then ate healthy meal for dinner..
    I did it for a month and lost 26lbs.
    That was over a year ago. When I started a regular healthy diet I lost and additional
    10 lbs over 4months. (I got sick of washing my juicer.)
    I gained the 12lbs back, but maintained that initial 20+ pounds for over 10 months.
    I'm going to start juicing again...
    I personally don't like eating all the fruits and veggies that I should be eating and am able to do so
    in the form of juice or a smoothie.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
    You can get all the essential amino acids from a variety of vegetarian sources. However, for most unless they supplement with powders the overall protein intake will not be sufficient for LBM gains. The exception is for people who are tracking and actually know how much they are consuming.
  • ammadove
    ammadove Posts: 97 Member
    I started doing fruit and veggie smoothies to replace one or two meals a day. It can be a bit costly but it is healthy. I still have at least one regular meal a day. I do add protein powder and sometimes greek yogurt to them to round out the protein and calcium. And they really are an aquired taste at first but after a while you find yourself looking forward to them and thinking of all the possibilites that you can blend together.
  • retiree2006
    retiree2006 Posts: 951 Member
    Yes, I watched the movie. It would take a lot of work and close supervision to make sure you did it correctly. Plus, it would be tough to get back onto a balanced diet of solids eventually since you've gotten away from them for so long. Personally, I want to learn to eat "real" foods in a reasonable way that lets me be healthy rather do something drastic that I know I'd never be able to keep up. So far I've taken off 50+ pounds by doing what we all know works, even if it takes awhile.
  • Coquette6
    Coquette6 Posts: 158 Member
    because the fiber is removed, all those nutrients get absorbed right into your body and your digestive system does not have to work to digest anything.

    Fiber is necessary to absorbing anything from your GI tract. Fiber stimulates the intestine to contract and relax, causing the contents to be mixed and increasing absorption. Without fiber, the contents don't get exposed to the intestinal walls as much and there's a high likelihood of the nutrient just going straight through without being absorbed.
  • rainaj30
    rainaj30 Posts: 3
    Ashton Cutxher was hospitalized just a few months ago because he tried the all fruit diet to prepare for a roll in the movie he was working on. According to the reports that I seen it caused his pancreas to become severely inflamed and he was in the hospital for several days. Fruits have a lot of acid and natural sugars in them and can cause damage to your system if that is all your ody is taking in.
  • GwenBurnell
    GwenBurnell Posts: 3
    I have not seen this movie but now want to. Thanks for sharing. I love juicing and have gone several times to a Research hospital where food is medicine. Juicing is a great way to take in large levels of nutrients, easy on the gut and allows it to heal as well. The reduction of inflammation in the body is quite amazing. I prefer the green juices with no fruit.
  • crunchybubblez
    crunchybubblez Posts: 387 Member

    I'm at work so I can't go rummaging through my biochemistry textbooks but how about Medline Plus? I would also like to point out that most of the places you will see chanting that there are plenty of proteins in fruits and vegetables are texts that advocate a vegetarian diet and, in doing so, immediately expose their fatal flaw; they are inexplicably biased. Humans are omnivores and are healthiest when they consume a balanced diet. I would also like to point out that, if veggies and fruits contain complete proteins, why is it that I can sport a lbm of 250lbs+ (and so can a lot of other lifters with meat heavy diets) but vegans, aside from less than a handful of exceptions, are generally immaciated? The answer: because fruits and veggies don't contain enough proteins or the right amino acids to facilitate tissue repair. Why is this even an argument?

    the only single source of complete protein is animal. however, by eating the right fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes, one can have a complete protein profile. fruits, veg, grains, and legumes can provide ALL of the proper amino acids necessary to a healthy lifestyle - even necessary to building muscle. and soy is NOT an animal source, yet provides a complete protein profile:

    Michelfelder, A. (2009). Soy: a complete source of protein. American Family Physician, 79(1), 43-47.

    you are incorrect. it is completely possible to get all essential amino acids from non-animal sources, if you plan well and know your sources.

    *edit - i also know numerous vegans, only one of whom would be considered below body weight. you can be fat or skinny on any diet, depending on what you eat.

    You needed to read the comments leading up to that one before you commented. All of the information you gave had already been discussed in this thread and, despite your delivery, was in agreeance with what I said. Also, I'm not talking about being fat or skinny, I'm talking about lean body mass, which you cannot have a lot of on every diet.

    this is what you said on an earlier post:

    "There is plenty of calcium in some veggies but there is not a significant amount of protein and the small amount of protein that is present does not have a complete amino acid profile needed to sustain muscle mass (not to mention life!) in humans"

    you did not provide proof of that statement, i have provided proof to the contrary. i read all of the comments. and based on your previous statement, was *not* in agreement with what you said. i'm all for a healthy debate, but i don't like when misinformation or opinion is stated as fact because it may mislead other people. humans do not need to consume animal products to be healthy and obtain all of the nutrients necessary for optimum health.

    *applauding

    Ah.. and the common sense comes out.
  • stephgas
    stephgas Posts: 159 Member
    because the fiber is removed, all those nutrients get absorbed right into your body and your digestive system does not have to work to digest anything.

    Fiber is necessary to absorbing anything from your GI tract. Fiber stimulates the intestine to contract and relax, causing the contents to be mixed and increasing absorption. Without fiber, the contents don't get exposed to the intestinal walls as much and there's a high likelihood of the nutrient just going straight through without being absorbed.

    from Kaczmarczyk, M., Miller, M., & Freund, G. (2012). The health benefits of dietary fiber: beyond the usual suspects of type 2 diabetes mellitus, cardiovascular disease and colon cancer. Metabolism: Clinical And Experimental, 61(8), 1058-1066:

    "DF [dietary fiber] is not a static collection of undigestible plant materials that pass untouched or unencumbered through the gastrointestinal (GI) tract; instead, DFs are a vast array of complex saccharide-based molecules that can bind potential nutrients and nutrient precursors to prevent their absorption."

    fiber can bind nutrients and nutrient precursors and prevent their absorption. in some of my researching i found a study on sows that showed fiber helped the absorption of glucose and short-chain fatty acids, but it was not necessary - sows on a low fiber diet still received glucose and SCFA, but not as much as those on higher fiber diets.

    i'm not a huge fan of juice fasting, but i think as a supplement to a healthy diet, it's a great way to get all the vitamins, minerals, and nutrients required by the human body to be healthy. according to the mayo clinic, the main purposes of fiber in the diet seems to be as roughage, although it does help with lowering cholesterol/glucose: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fiber/NU00033.
  • pseudomuffin
    pseudomuffin Posts: 1,058 Member
    If you want to "cleanse" just eat a TON of garlic, you'll see what I mean :laugh:
  • ACSL3
    ACSL3 Posts: 623 Member
    Ok, so I'm not up on all the weight lifting lingo and acronyms (I have enough acronyms in my life).

    In my line of work, LBM = Last Bowel Movement, which makes some of this conversation a little silly to read. :laugh:
  • Megh757
    Megh757 Posts: 33 Member
    Great documentary and yea you will lose weight. Yea juice is healthy. Would I recommend someone doing it for a month or two months no. juicing is great when added into a diet and fasting especially with juicing because it has a ton. Nutrients is great but without medical supervision then a few days would be the max
  • stephgas
    stephgas Posts: 159 Member
    If you want to "cleanse" just eat a TON of garlic, you'll see what I mean :laugh:

    :laugh: DEFINITELY!
  • alanlmarshall
    alanlmarshall Posts: 587 Member

    I'm at work so I can't go rummaging through my biochemistry textbooks but how about Medline Plus? I would also like to point out that most of the places you will see chanting that there are plenty of proteins in fruits and vegetables are texts that advocate a vegetarian diet and, in doing so, immediately expose their fatal flaw; they are inexplicably biased. Humans are omnivores and are healthiest when they consume a balanced diet. I would also like to point out that, if veggies and fruits contain complete proteins, why is it that I can sport a lbm of 250lbs+ (and so can a lot of other lifters with meat heavy diets) but vegans, aside from less than a handful of exceptions, are generally immaciated? The answer: because fruits and veggies don't contain enough proteins or the right amino acids to facilitate tissue repair. Why is this even an argument?

    the only single source of complete protein is animal. however, by eating the right fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes, one can have a complete protein profile. fruits, veg, grains, and legumes can provide ALL of the proper amino acids necessary to a healthy lifestyle - even necessary to building muscle. and soy is NOT an animal source, yet provides a complete protein profile:

    Michelfelder, A. (2009). Soy: a complete source of protein. American Family Physician, 79(1), 43-47.

    you are incorrect. it is completely possible to get all essential amino acids from non-animal sources, if you plan well and know your sources.

    *edit - i also know numerous vegans, only one of whom would be considered below body weight. you can be fat or skinny on any diet, depending on what you eat.

    You needed to read the comments leading up to that one before you commented. All of the information you gave had already been discussed in this thread and, despite your delivery, was in agreeance with what I said. Also, I'm not talking about being fat or skinny, I'm talking about lean body mass, which you cannot have a lot of on every diet.

    this is what you said on an earlier post:

    "There is plenty of calcium in some veggies but there is not a significant amount of protein and the small amount of protein that is present does not have a complete amino acid profile needed to sustain muscle mass (not to mention life!) in humans"

    you did not provide proof of that statement, i have provided proof to the contrary. i read all of the comments. and based on your previous statement, was *not* in agreement with what you said. i'm all for a healthy debate, but i don't like when misinformation or opinion is stated as fact because it may mislead other people. humans do not need to consume animal products to be healthy and obtain all of the nutrients necessary for optimum health.

    *applauding

    Ah.. and the common sense comes out.


    Even if there were not vegetable sources of complete protein, amino acids are pooled in the blood stream and do not require intentional combining. Millions of of vegetarians not being protein defecient over decades should be enough to convince anyone of that.
  • weight4wishes
    weight4wishes Posts: 7
    No to juicing... here is some current and accurate on protein and just how behind teachings are from the real science. Some school texts still state, for example, that only eight of the 21 amino acids in human proteins are essential. In the last few years of science that number has grown to 17, although some oxymoronic folk still call the nine new ones “conditionally essential”. Not the case... http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/6/1558S.full .... also http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/7/1835S.full

    The bottom line is this, it is possible to get all of your amino acids from Veggies but it is very difficult and requires that you do your homework. Animal sourced protein is a no brainer... the best source of which is high quality Whey Protein Concentrate.

    Juicing is OK for a maximum of 2 days beyond which you risk entering a catabolic state (starvation mode). I can help you with this but would rather do it privately as this post has gotten way too big. Message me if you would like some tips...happy to help.

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