More calories wasn't the answer for me
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I tried the more calories too and I kept gaining. I had a metabolic assessment done (New leaf fitness equipment) and found out my resting metabolic rate is 907, add on my desk job I am at 1179 calories a day I burn. So I have a very low metabolism. So I am working with the person who did my testing to build my RMR back up. It was no wonder why I was gaining on eating more. Goes to show that formulas and calculations are not accurate for everyone.0
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I am not going to down you... your method has worked for you and that is awesome. There are some questions that you need to ask yourself though. Is a 1,000 cal/day diet something that you can maintain for the rest of your life? Probably not. Your doctor probably wanted to shock your body to get those first pounds off. He did a good job at that! A healthy amount of weight loss is an average of a pound a week.... some people loose more some less. But 1 pound a week is realistic. This is because we are human, we have bad days and binge and we have lazy days and do not work out. If you are only at the beginning of this journey and lifestyle change, you might not understand that yet. There will be a day where you get frustrated and you give into that McDonalds cheeseburger or dominos pizza or whatever your weakness is. It happens. So, if you are expecting to loose 18 pounds a month, then you are expecting too much. Expecting too much from this journey will lead to failure. That is why people who do fad diets almost always gain the weight back. They do not really learn anything, they just want instant gratification. I wish you luck and I hope this helps.0
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I did this math for someone else, so your BMR and TDEE will be different, but I think it really illustrates the issue with dropping below BMR:
If you don't believe you're not eating enough, I did some math:
Your BMR if you're sedentary is 1435, TDEE is 1722. **(this was calculated from that person's age and height)
On a 900-calorie day, you are 37% under BMR. That's enough to slow your metabolism, or "starvation mode."
(I know, you can find "starvation mode is a myth" posts all over. The fact that your metabolism slows down significantly if you cut calories too fast has been repeatedly confirmed with research. You may burn up to 40% fewer calories).
So, lets say you have slowed your metabolism down through regular starvation.
Lets use that 40% number, just for fun.
If your metabolism is running 40% slower, "Starvation BMR" is actually about 860.
Which means you can actually maintain weight at only 900 calories a day.
Is the answer to go even lower? No. The answer is to eat enough that your body isn't slowing down your metabolism. It may take awhile for your body to adjust to getting what it needs to run properly, though.
The math shows that the 40% is really kind of a big deal.
You could keep your metabolism slowed and eat 800 calories a day, which would be only a 100 calorie a day deficit -- and no fun.
Or you could try to help it recover, and you could eat 1400 calories a day while creating a 300-calorie deficit!
Suggesting weight could come off 3x as fast while eating 500 calories more every day.0 -
I did this math for someone else, so your BMR and TDEE will be different, but I think it really illustrates the issue with dropping below BMR:
If you don't believe you're not eating enough, I did some math:
Your BMR if you're sedentary is 1435, TDEE is 1722. **(this was calculated from that person's age and height)
On a 900-calorie day, you are 37% under BMR. That's enough to slow your metabolism, or "starvation mode."
(I know, you can find "starvation mode is a myth" posts all over. The fact that your metabolism slows down significantly if you cut calories too fast has been repeatedly confirmed with research. You may burn up to 40% fewer calories).
So, lets say you have slowed your metabolism down through regular starvation.
Lets use that 40% number, just for fun.
If your metabolism is running 40% slower, "Starvation BMR" is actually about 860.
Which means you can actually maintain weight at only 900 calories a day.
Is the answer to go even lower? No. The answer is to eat enough that your body isn't slowing down your metabolism. It may take awhile for your body to adjust to getting what it needs to run properly, though.
The math shows that the 40% is really kind of a big deal.
You could keep your metabolism slowed and eat 800 calories a day, which would be only a 100 calorie a day deficit -- and no fun.
Or you could try to help it recover, and you could eat 1400 calories a day while creating a 300-calorie deficit!
Suggesting weight could come off 3x as fast while eating 500 calories more every day.
I read somewhere that if you were over-eating and then severely dropped calories, your metabolism is like a machine that suddenly has the emergency brake pulled. Everything slows down to accommodate the new lower intake. I wouldn't call it starvation mode, but I believe it's a survival trigger built into our bodies. I also read it takes up 4-8wks for our bodies to catch on that it's ok to burn (with intake increase) and the uptake of metabolism isn't as fast as the initial slow-down.
October last year, I started this mission @1200 /day and lost 18 that month.
November @ 1200 = stalled out
December @ 1200 = stalled out
January @ 1500 = 7 lbs lost
February @ 1500 = stalled again
I just increased my intake AGAIN to 1700 and already gained a pound. My TDEE is way higher than I originally thought (upwards of 2500), so that initial decrease was a HUGE deficit (+50%). Now that I'm eating more, I expect a small gain until I level out. It sucks to not have the immediate loss I wanted, but I'd rather do this right and be able to live with it a lifetime!
You are older than me, and have already lost more than me in less time. Cut yourself some slack and stay with the program.
The benefits of eating more will pay off long-term with more energy(to get up and move), better health(isn't that our goal?) and sustainability. I was never a big eater before this, and lived a sedentary life at a desk. The more I gained, the less I ate.
I now realize THIS IS WHY I'M FAT! I trained my body to conserve energy 80% of the time, and then a few regular eating days mixed in piled it on over two decades. You can't undo that kind of bad programming overnight.
Hang in there... IT WILL HAPPEN!0 -
Also the bigger deficit the more muscle mass you're going to lose in turn slowing your metabolism even more. Then when you do up your calories again more than likely you will struggle to keep the weight off, starting the yo-yo dieting effect, making your life miserable.
I don't understand. I am on a high protein diet. About 100g a day. This should feed the muscles. I generally take in less than 5 carbs a day (though I don't berate myself if it occasionally goes up to less than 10). Those tiny bits of carbs comes in the heavy whipping cream that I use with coffee plus the mayonnaise that I make with real egg to make meat salads. That means that I am not offering my body any quick energy from carbs, thus forcing it to burn the abundant stores of excess fat that I carry around. If a body doesn't have abundant fat stores (if I'm only 10-20 lbs overweight) , it will feed off muscle, but that isn't the case for me - even if I didn't take great pains to feed my muscles their daily requirements. I've got about 80 pounds of excess fat stores that my body can utilize to its heart's content.
As for yo-yo dieting, I was never fat until I entered menopause, quit smoking, and sold my house - buying a motorhome - to travel, tasting all of the delicacies from all of the unique and interesting places I visited or stayed at. (Too much too fast). I doubt that I will yo-yo because until life happened, I maintained constant and strict control over my weight. If 8 pounds went on, 8 pounds came off. It wasn't through dieting. It was through self-discipline and a desire to have a beautiful body. If I could go for 50 years without being more than a few pounds overweight for a short amount of time, I doubt that I will start doing it when my body has returned to ITS normal. I don't have any memories that would support yo-yo.
As I said, I've never been fat before, so I don't know how fat bodies work.
I will recheck my BMR with my HRM to see if my BMR changes with reduced calories. That will be good to know. I wonder how long I should stay on more restricted calories before I see if there is a reduction.0 -
At our age 3 lbs a month is realistic especially after that first chunk of 18 lbs. In addition your metabolic rate will adjust to lower calories which will make losing harder in the long run so I think your doc is looking out for your well being . Is your doc well versed on weight loss programs? That is really low carb! I am trying to do low carb but I never go that low. What are you eating and does your diet have a program name? I did Ideal Protein last year but did not for the first 3-4 months... they did not emphasize exercise.... in fact kind of discouraged it so though I lost a lot of weight I lost a lot of muscle. I would like to know more about your program.
Good luck.0 -
Also the bigger deficit the more muscle mass you're going to lose in turn slowing your metabolism even more. Then when you do up your calories again more than likely you will struggle to keep the weight off, starting the yo-yo dieting effect, making your life miserable.
I don't understand. I am on a high protein diet. About 100g a day. This should feed the muscles. I generally take in less than 5 carbs a day (though I don't berate myself if it occasionally goes up to less than 10). Those tiny bits of carbs comes in the heavy whipping cream that I use with coffee plus the mayonnaise that I make with real egg to make meat salads. That means that I am not offering my body any quick energy from carbs, thus forcing it to burn the abundant stores of excess fat that I carry around. If a body doesn't have abundant fat stores (if I'm only 10-20 lbs overweight) , it will feed off muscle, but that isn't the case for me - even if I didn't take great pains to feed my muscles their daily requirements. I've got about 80 pounds of excess fat stores that my body can utilize to its heart's content.
As for yo-yo dieting, I was never fat until I entered menopause, quit smoking, and sold my house - buying a motorhome - to travel, tasting all of the delicacies from all of the unique and interesting places I visited or stayed at. (Too much too fast). I doubt that I will yo-yo because until life happened, I maintained constant and strict control over my weight. If 8 pounds went on, 8 pounds came off. It wasn't through dieting. It was through self-discipline and a desire to have a beautiful body. If I could go for 50 years without being more than a few pounds overweight for a short amount of time, I doubt that I will start doing it when my body has returned to ITS normal. I don't have any memories that would support yo-yo.
As I said, I've never been fat before, so I don't know how fat bodies work.
I will recheck my BMR with my HRM to see if my BMR changes with reduced calories. That will be good to know. I wonder how long I should stay on more restricted calories before I see if there is a reduction.
The problem is fat storage is one of the last things the body likes to burn if you aren't giving it enough fuel.0 -
WOW... these are very interesting and helpful posts!!! Thank you for all the study... research that has been shared here!!0
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Losing 1 lb a week is where you should be. Sounds like you found the sweet spot. Stay put.
It took me a year to lose 50lbs. But it's a permanent change, all new habits, healthier than i've ever been, and no yo-yoing. Worth it. Eat enough keep increasing and changing up exercise, keep going. I'm 51, Peri-menapausal and it's much harder. I never had so much trouble losing weight in places I never even carried it before. But as I said I've never been better off than today for eating right (and enough) and the new lifestyle. I'm very short, as well as older and female. I don't need a lot of calories before I gain, but cutting them too much and I don't lose. Not to mention I can't function well because I'm hungry! That said I'd crumple if I ate what you posted. Exercise bumps me up to needing even more, so does weight training and more muscle mass. At goal I was just under 2000 calories goal per day, but I could eat 200 over each day with muscle mass built up. Having stopped that for a while, I have to eat around what MFP puts me at. Follow it to the letter and see what happens. Give it a year.0 -
Also the bigger deficit the more muscle mass you're going to lose in turn slowing your metabolism even more. Then when you do up your calories again more than likely you will struggle to keep the weight off, starting the yo-yo dieting effect, making your life miserable.
I don't understand. I am on a high protein diet. About 100g a day. This should feed the muscles. I generally take in less than 5 carbs a day (though I don't berate myself if it occasionally goes up to less than 10). Those tiny bits of carbs comes in the heavy whipping cream that I use with coffee plus the mayonnaise that I make with real egg to make meat salads. That means that I am not offering my body any quick energy from carbs, thus forcing it to burn the abundant stores of excess fat that I carry around. If a body doesn't have abundant fat stores (if I'm only 10-20 lbs overweight) , it will feed off muscle, but that isn't the case for me - even if I didn't take great pains to feed my muscles their daily requirements. I've got about 80 pounds of excess fat stores that my body can utilize to its heart's content.
As for yo-yo dieting, I was never fat until I entered menopause, quit smoking, and sold my house - buying a motorhome - to travel, tasting all of the delicacies from all of the unique and interesting places I visited or stayed at. (Too much too fast). I doubt that I will yo-yo because until life happened, I maintained constant and strict control over my weight. If 8 pounds went on, 8 pounds came off. It wasn't through dieting. It was through self-discipline and a desire to have a beautiful body. If I could go for 50 years without being more than a few pounds overweight for a short amount of time, I doubt that I will start doing it when my body has returned to ITS normal. I don't have any memories that would support yo-yo.
As I said, I've never been fat before, so I don't know how fat bodies work.
I will recheck my BMR with my HRM to see if my BMR changes with reduced calories. That will be good to know. I wonder how long I should stay on more restricted calories before I see if there is a reduction.
A small article excerpt from Stefan Paul Angheli, BAppSci, IBLS-AIS, CSCS
REFERENCE:
*· ABS Catalog 4805.0 National Nutrition Survey 1995
"When aerobic exercise is performed your body burns both carbohydrate and fat. But when you increase the aerobic/cardio intensity your body also switches to burning more carbohydrates and less bodyfat proportionately. If not enough carbohydrates are consumed your body will switch to making carbohydrates from protein. That is called catabolism and results in losing muscle mass, which is the exact opposite of what you should be aiming for. Therefore, if you are already on a low calorie diet and you add aerobic exercise, you will further accelerate this catastrophe.
But wait, you say, wouldn't that lead to more weight loss and thus quicker and faster results?
While this may look good from a bathroom scale perspective, I assure you that this is detrimental to your ability to achieve permanent weight loss. That's because if you lose muscle, you lose your ability to burn calories. With less muscle, you burn less calories. It's that simple. People trying to lose weight should stop and think about that last statement.
And what happens when you now burn fewer calories?
You need to eat less compared to before your training program. This means that you are now more susceptible to gaining back your bodyfat and more. Oh yeah, and it doesn't do anything in helping you control appetite and in developing healthy eating habits.
Eating extra protein will not counteract this destruction because total dietary energy must be first increased to meet the body's energy needs. Fat, be in dietary or bodyfat, will not stop this muscle wasting because some tissues such as the brain need energy as glucose. While amino acids, which come from muscle protein can be metabolised to produce glucose, fats cannot. As a consequence, a person with more than adequate fat stores may suffer loss of muscle and other tissue if the diet is too restricted in calories."0 -
:huh: Seriously? You've lost 30 lbs since January and that isn't enough?! I've been at this since April and I haven't even hit 50 lbs. You need to slow down, trust your body, eat a bit more and not stress the numbers on the scale.
This.
Eating under a thousand calories is not healthy or sustainable for an adult, no matter the weight loss results. Most everyone will lose weight at a dangerously low calorie count, at least for awhile. That does not make it a good idea.
Over time you will lose lean body mass, which will SLOW your metabolism. So, for a while at least you will lose weight - but it will not be fat loss entirely, it will include a lot of lean body mass (LBM is what controls your metabolism - more =higher, less = slower). SO, in the long run you are damaging your body and will likely gain back weight after you stop your diet. I had to learn to eat like I will eat for the rest of my life - a reasonable calorie goal - even if the weight is coming off slowly, to preserve LBM and avoid a slowed metabolism..0 -
http://www.garrisonbodyhealthnutrition.com/nutrition/
Read the part about macro's and how our body uses them. I know this isn't a "study" but I believe most of what's written here explains the mechanics of weight loss in an easy to understand manner. This might not give you instant results, but I believe it will give you lasting results.
I know what you're saying about being able to control the weight up until menopause, but that was then and this is now. We grow older, and have to adapt to changes.
I also thought this online calculator was pretty cool for TDEE: http://www.garrisonbodyhealthnutrition.com/bodyanalysis/caloriesburned.php0 -
Water weight. It's very common to lose a lot of it in the beginning, especially on a keto diet, because it depletes your glycogen stores and dumps the water involved in its storage. But you have to understand that was a self limiting process that didn't have a whole lot to do with how many calories you were taking in. It was totally unrealistic to expect it to continue. If and when you go off the keto diet and replenish your glycogen stores, you will regain some water weight. But that too will be a self limiting process.0
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Totally agree with this....your brain, heart, lungs, muscles and every other body organ needs fuel to run efficiently. You are not doing yourself any favor by starving your body. You will never convince us! Stop starving yourself, your weight loss will naturally slow down but you also want to maintain muscle and be able to keep the weight off. This is NOT a diet, it is a lifestyle change.If your trying to convince us that starving yourself is the way to go, your wrong. DEAD WRONG. As stated in an above comment, you might have drastically dropped in the beginning, not going to be a constant when you shock the body, and working out 5 times a week is not sedentary. Your body is like a car, it needs fuel to run, but know this- the more you starve the more your body will eat your muscle FIRST, and hold on to every bit of fat, known as starvation mode. As far as you stating because you were skinny your whole life, you don't under stand how a fat body works suggest you've been heavy for quite some time( I doubt that you don't). I'm petite wear a size 3 and work out 5-6 times a week eating 1800 calories, at 1200 I was starving and going no where. You need to eat more. But you don't mention your stats.
There is no quick fix. Hard work and research. Do the math and do yourself a favor and stop starving. Building muscle will replace fat. One pound of fat and one pound of muscle will weigh the same, but fat is more fluffy. Muscle is lean. Pay attention to measurements and don't put all your faith in a scale.0 -
As for yo-yo dieting, I was never fat until I entered menopause, quit smoking, and sold my house - buying a motorhome - to travel, tasting all of the delicacies from all of the unique and interesting places I visited or stayed at. (Too much too fast). I doubt that I will yo-yo because until life happened, I maintained constant and strict control over my weight. If 8 pounds went on, 8 pounds came off. It wasn't through dieting. It was through self-discipline and a desire to have a beautiful body. If I could go for 50 years without being more than a few pounds overweight for a short amount of time, I doubt that I will start doing it when my body has returned to ITS normal. I don't have any memories that would support yo-yo.
What starts the yo-yo moving is a metabolic rate lowered by the loss of muscle mass, which happened relatively late in my life too. I could eat whatever I wanted and didn't begin to develop a weight problem until the latter half of my 40s and didn't cross the line into the BMI overweight range until well into my 50s. Then I lost 58 pounds at age 58 on 1500-1800 calories a day, including exercise. I never let it drop below that level for more than a day or two at a time because I was SCARED TO DEATH of losing even more muscle than I already had, just from advancing age and too many years of a sedentary lifestyle. When you gain weight because you've lost muscle mass it doesn't make a lot of sense to try to lose the weight by cannibalizing even more muscle on a high calorie deficit. Do that and you still may be able to maintain the loss, but it will be a lot harder than it needs to be. It won't matter one whit that you don't have any memories of yo-yo dieting in your 30s.
I seem to have been able to stop the yo-yo, at least for now. I'm 5'7', weigh 123 pounds, will be 60 in May, and have successfully maintained for a year and a half on around 1900 calories a day plus strength training and cardio. But just because i'm back to the weight I was 35 years ago doesn't mean I have the body I had back then. I actually have to work at keeping it lean now.0 -
OP...your expectations are out of whack. 3-4 Lbs per month weight loss is perfectly acceptable...and much depends on how much you have to lose. Generally speaking, 1/2 - 2 Lbs per week is considered safe and healthy...anything more than 2 Lbs is unhealthy and you are doing some serious disservice to your body...anything more than 2 Lbs should be done under the close supervision of a medical professional and is really only for the obese/morbidly obese. When people say to eat more to lose weight, what they are referring to is the fact that you don't have to malnourished yourself to lose weight...you can eat more and take a more gradual and safer approach to weight loss.
The less you have to lose, the slower it should be to remain safe and healthy...so for example, someone like me who only needs to lose 15 more Lbs or so...2 Lbs per week would not be safe and healthy because I would be well below my BMR...frankly, I'm pushing it with 1 Lb per week and will need to switch to 1/2 Lb per week loss shortly.
The real problem here is that your expectations are whack and not consistent with safe and healthy weight loss, not the recommendations of your doctor or others here that say to eat more.0
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