200+ to lose and totally utterly confused!

366to266 · February 2013

My situation: female 5ft 3, 54 years old. I weigh 348 pounds, BMI over 60. Can't walk more than a few metres.

Extremely sedentary except for water aerobics, one hour, half of that vigorous, 2 to 5 times a week. History of hypoglycaemia and hyperinsulinaemia (I secrete too much insulin, and for many years eating any sugar or refined carbs, even fruit, used to give me horrendous blood-glucose crashes.) For years I have avoided sugar, alcohol and fruit. I used to binge on carbs and fear that I might if I try to have just a little bit (triggers). Wheat gives me arthritis and chronic indigestion. Most oats and grains make me feel sick. It seems obvious that Atkins was the perfect diet for me.

Have lost 19lb on Atkins this year keeping to 20-40 carbs a day. On swimming days I fast 18 hours and consume 1,200 to 1600. On non swimming days I eat between 1600 and 2000 and occasionally I have eaten up to 2700. It averaged at 1,800 a day over 5 weeks. However, despite changing nothing the weight loss stalled and I have lost nothing for two weeks.

Problem 1: Calorie consumption for weight loss.

I believed that the fewer calories you consume, the more weight you would lose. Since joining MFP I have read repeatedly that people should not eat lower than their BMR and mine is 2230. Well, yesterday I had only eaten 1050 calories by 8pm and so I forced myself to eat another 400 though I was not hungry.

Another MFP school of thought says one should eat TDEE minus 20%, which for me is (3000-600= 2400!) In amongst all this Helloitsdan, who wrote the “road map” is adamant that I should eat only 1600. I have also met ladies on this forum who have lost 100lb plus on 1,200.

Many people say that eating under BMR causes "starvation mode." However, on TV the other night (Embarrassing Fat Bodies) a man who wasn't even as fat as me was placed by doctors on a high protein 800-calorie a day diet for three stints of 10 days each, with a week's gap in between to eat normally, and he lost about 50lb.

I do not know who or what to believe. This isn’t an academic exercise for me. I am dangerously overweight and I have to make a decision TODAY about whether to eat to my appetite and end up logging only 1500 calories, or to force-feed myself up to BMR or TDEE - 20%.

2. Fasting. I am not forcing my fasting; it comes naturally to me as I find the high fat diet very satiating and appetite-killing. Proponents of fasting praise it highly. I really enjoy the feeling of inner emptiness and it keeps my insulin levels down.

However, many people on MFP are passionately against fasting and insist that “little and often” is the way to go. Even Dr Atkins said never go more than six waking hours without eating. Mind you he didn’t say if he was against fasting for 6 waking hours, then sleeping 6 hours, then fasting for another 6 waking hours, which is what I do on some days.

3. Carb-cycling and Carb-Nite. These are supposed to “keep the body guessing” and therefore out of starvation mode. Is it a load of hogwash or good science?

I know that some will say I should experiment by doing this for a month or two and that for another month or two but some experiments could lead to a reduction in metabolism long term, or other metabolic damage. Millions of people have lost weight successfully and so why should I have to re-invent the wheel? Why should I have to delay my weight loss while I piddle about with this regime and that regime when surely to goodness there MUST be Truth somewhere on in someone.

I'm feeling really depressed with it all and I literally do not know what I am supposed to be eating today, let alone tomorrow and this year.

How can I find the truth in amongst all the arguing?

Can MFPers even agree on how many calories I should be consuming?

tiarapants · February 2013

The truth is - nobody will agree. Different things work for different people. Personally I stuck pretty much to a 1200 calorie a day and added back most of my exercise calories. This worked for me. x

Fatandfifty3 · February 2013

Hi, first let me congratulate you on taking the biggest step forward by seriously drawing a line in the sand about your health. Well done you!

From what I can gather you may not be eating enough calories to fuel your body. That makes sense. A fire won't burn unless you fuel it! If you are finding hard to eat the amount of calories, try using sensible high calorie foods to get to your projected calorie limit. I think its important not to do a drastic diet in your present circumstance.

I can only tell you what works for me. I am doing a Intermittent Fast/5:2 diet combo at the moment. I think this is an important thing for you to locate- What is going to work for you long term? What can you stick to and keep going? That might be trial and error until you find the one that works for you.

You will find help on here. There are a lot of people who have successfully and sensibly lost more weight than you need to! So chin up kid! :-D

Have you spoken to your doctor? Try to get to see a nutritionalist.

noogie98 · February 2013

got to go but will read this later! Good luck on your journey & feel free to add me if you like!! :flowerforyou:

AngieM76 · February 2013

You will get different opinions from everyone. You just have to find what works for you. It is my opinion that at your current weight, you can definitely and probably should eat more than 1000 calories a day to lose weight. I think most sites say that the more weight you lose the less calories per day you will consume.

rduhlir · February 2013

Yup, as Tiara puts it, no one will agree on what to do. Personally I believe you have to find what works for you. If TDEE/BMR works then do that, if the way MFP sets you up do that. Also, keep in mind that a 2 week stall isn't a plateau. Have you been taping? You could be losing inches but not weight. Obviously what you are doing is working, because you have already lost 19 lbs.

Now, as far as what you saw on TV. Keep in mind, such low calorie diets like that should only be done under doctor supervision, and I can guarentee you that the doctor didn't have him on it for a very long period of time.

Lauralsaur · February 2013

I don't know how to respond, but I can tell you what I do

I eat at least 1,300 calories a day (most would be 1,550). What I do is eat my breakfast (before classes, since I'm in University), after my first class and before my second class, I eat lunch. After my last class of the day I go walking for only 30 minutes (Mind you, I gradually got up to 30 minutes). After my walk I fuel my body with a light snack until supper time. I have my supper and before bed I have a little snack. I use to eat at any time during the day, and I found that getting my body into a schedule extremely helped. Also I know that you stated walking can be hard (and it always is at first), but even a 10 minute walk will feel amazing

I'm sorry I can't help much

Best of luck!

pinchincents · February 2013

Sweetheart, you can so do this!! It is hard I know. I have been struggling to lose weight for awhile now and have finally found something that works for me. What works for me may not work for you. I do have a website though where I share what our family is eating. We focus on a rounded meal plan with carbs, fat, and protein. I also don't like expensive or meals that take too much time to prepare. We have 5 children and just cannot afford it. We are also full-time college students without a lot of time. My husband and I also do video blogs on YouTube where we talk about our struggles, etc. You can find our website link by visiting my page I believe. On our website (dont know if links are allowed so I wont post it) you can click on our Lets Get Healthy link to find our YouTube channel.

You are not alone in this, we are all here for you. The best way to be successful is with a support system. We need you as much as you need us hun.

As far as how much to eat. I am eating 1,220 calories a day when I don't workout and 1,620 when I do. I should be losing 2 pounds a week, but mine fluctuates. I am also drinking half my body weight in water - that is challenging, but I believe it really helps with losing the weight.

We have just started this journey. We have been doing it a solid month. We cut out all pop and crap that we don't need. No more high sugar cereals in our home. We are not as extreme as some. We do still drink milk (1%) with our cereal, but I will have 1 1/2 cups cheerios or Bran Flakes with 1/2 cup of 1% milk.

In order not to give up, I realized that I am not worried about losing weight (that is an extra bonus) I want to get healthy. I want to lower any high cholesterol that I may have (don't know if I do), I want to lower my blood pressure (it was 120/70 after our son was born at home a year ago and crept up to 150/90 which scared the crap out of me!!). There is no giving up, we have to do this. My husband has Multiple Myeloma (which is incurable bone disease) he is doing well, but I have to be healthy for our children. There are no excuses anymore.

If you would like to add me as a friend, please do.

tjk71 · February 2013

You need to find what works for you! Talk to your Dr. about how to control your hypoglycaemia and hyperinsulinaemia. Trying to crame that many calories in a short amount of time probabley isn't helping the situation.....fasting may not be a ggod thing for you. Start incorporating short walks every day even if its for 10 min. You will slowly build up....its not a race its a life style!
Learn how to eat properly & fuel your body & most importantly listen to your body at how it responds to the food your eating. Since your just starting off you may just want to stick w/ MFP's suggestion and EAT BACK your workout calories!! Once you lose some then I would start tweeking by fasting etc..... but its not necessary either! Good Luck!

WBB55 · February 2013

I lost most of my weight at 1500-1800. You're starting a bit higher than me, so you could probably start with 1800-2100, if you wanted. As far as plateaus go, I lost 95# over a two-year period. About 1# per week on average. I had at least 5 plateaus. Once I was closer to my goal, I switched to 1200-1500 per day.

You're in this for the long term. I recommend eating a normal whole foods sensible diet that includes plenty of vegies and items from all food groups. If you prefer low carb, stick with it (though 50-100 of complex carbs is probably a better goal for you right now). Don't do extremes though, ok? You've got to do this for A LONG TIME. There's a good chance, if you're doing Atkins, that that 19 lbs you've lost was all water. And that's ok. Atkins is ok. But I just think you're body would appreciate a well-rounded diet that includes all the food groups. At least for a while while you reset all your habits and thought processes about food.

But the good news is, you're not alone. Other people are on the same journey.

1964Lynn · February 2013

You can do this ! When I started MFP I totally agree it all sounds over whelming when reading every body's comments. Like everyone has said you need to find whats right for you.It will take some time. Im doing what MFP has told me which is 1200 and eating back most of my exercise cal and its working. Im only mostly walking for exercise. Like someone said walk alittle to start and build up each week more time. This is a life change and you can do it. Please dont give up.

Ploogy · February 2013

Excellent post, and a good summary of the inevitable conclusion that comes from many different, often conflicting suggests.

Fatandfifty3 · February 2013

Re reading your post i think I see that you are in quite a tizz. I can recommend whatever mfp has set as your calorie goals. There's sound science behind it. There's a lot of other stuff out there with interesting mnemonics that may work but at the moment I think K.I.S. is best for you! (Keep It Simple).
So my advice is- do what Mfp says. Eat healthy. Eat back your exercise calories. Keep at the exercise. Drink the water!
:-)

Reinventing_Me · February 2013

I think the most important thing you can do, especially with your medical history, is consult your physician and perhaps a dietician/nutritionist regarding a safe, balanced program fit for you from both standpoints.

Good luck on your journey and I sincerely believe you'll reach your goals. Take it slow and enjoy discovering the new you every step of the way.

LisaFieldsStafford · February 2013

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LowCarbLadyBug/ I belong to this group on facebook and find it very helpful. The women in the group are all low carb and can help you a lot.

http://www.fatfastrecipes.com/order-fat-fast-cookbook-by-dana-carpender/ Here is a book about fat fasting and the research behind it. It includes lots of good recipes. I recommend you read the book, choose the recipes and choose a 3 day period to do a fat fast. Then go to Atkins Induction Phase right afterward.

If you get into ketosis, you won't need to carb cycle. You may do a fat fast a couple times a month if needed to break a plateau.

Feel free to friend me here or message me. :smooched: You are doing great. Keep up the water aerobics and low carb.

islandgirldl76 · February 2013

I can understand how frustrating it is. Just to give you perspective. The calculator on this site has be at 1200 calories and much higher carb amounts. My doc 5 years ago(same weight 5'5" 160-170lbs) put me on a 1200 calorie diet with 40g of carbs a day. I could never do the 40g of carbs. But it was for the insulin resistance lowering the blood sugar spikes. But the same calorie recommendation.

I would recommend going to a doc, but nutritionist and docs are people to and may have different opinions, I have run into that. But thought I would throw my two cents in. I do say for your weight I would start out higher. Maybe and extra protein shake or something.

But you could also be dealing with a medical issue that is preventing you from losing weight. If after you maybe start eating more and you don't lose it I would go to the doc, armed with all the info and what you have tried and ask what is wrong. Have them go over your food diary. There are so many things that regulate metabolism. It isn't as simple as calories in and calories out. Good luck keep at it.

lilmissymoo90 · February 2013

dieting for me is an experiment all the time im usually on 1200 calories a day but if im hungry ill eat 1400 some days i barely eat 1000 im not hungry i wont eat .. people moan at me all the time as im aparently starving myself ... i dont really care thou as some days ill eat alot more and i think that over a week it works its self out. im not here for other peoples opinions im here to loose weight and sometimes get advice. my health has returned to normal now i dont have high blood pressure anymore. i think you just do whats right by you listen to you body x

psuLemon · February 2013

A couple of things. When someone has 100+ lbs to lose, they can very easily eat below the BMR as you have a substantial amount of fat stores to supply energy. And at that weight, TDEE -30% or 40% would be fine as well. TDEE -20% is for those that are closer to a normal weight for their stats.

Fasting is fine as well. Anyone who is against it generally doesn't understand the concept or it doesn't fit into their lifestyle. The 5:2 fast has also been the one that has caused the most issues. Many people think it's great to do the two days of 500 calories for fasting but then follow it up with 5 days of calorie restriction. This is where it's unhealthy as it doesn't supply enough calories over the week and can lead to more muscle loss than fat loss, especially those with lower body weight. In all reality, whether you get 2000 calories in a 16 hour window or a 4 hour window, it will still supply the same results.

Just follow MFP's recommendations. On days you work out, I would suggest eating a few more calories, especially protein based calories to improve your ability to repair muscle. If you have a 2 lb per week deficit and you find yourself binging, adjust your goal to 1.5lb. Also eat foods high in protein and fats. Both will keep you full long which will also reduce the chances of binging. And lastly, keep in mind this is not a short term thing. Teaching yourself that it's OK to have a cheat meal once and awhile is not a bad thing.

cordianet · February 2013

One point: I absolutely agree with Paul that folks that have a bunch to lose can eat below their BMR successfully. You are carrying around thousands and thousands of calories worth of fat; your body is not going to "go into starvation mode" or have some of the ill effects that skinny folks can have if they did the same. I really get sick of folks saying "don't eat below your BMR" like it's gospel. It all depends on where you're at in your journey.

Ultimately, there is no one-size-fits-all diet. Each of us is unique in the amount of fat we want to lose, our food likes and dislikes, our personal activity levels, our wake/sleep schedules, the family units we are in (who we eat with), the way we respond to macro and micro nutrients, any food allergies we may have, etc... Some are lucky and can pick from any of the methods you listed and be wildly successful. Others pick one, only to find that it does not work for them. Some can be partially successful on one, only to find that eventually they plateau and have to change things up in order to get moving again.

I'd say the latter is you. So I guess my advice is: if what your doing is not working, change it! Don't get too hung up on what the experts say, the goal here ultimately should not be "how can I drop weight the fastest", it should be "how can I lose fat while eating in a way that's sustainable for me for the long run." Once you figure that out, this becomes habit and is just part of your regular activity.

ktsmom430 · February 2013

You have to do what is right and works for you. If you are under a physicians care, follow his or her instructions.
Take what helps you from this site. Try not to dwell on information you get from others here. In spite of what a lot of people say, it is a very personal thing and yes, we are all snowflakes, each of us IS different. No one can know you as well as you know yourself.
You can do this!
I had a lot of pain in my knees when I began. I would never have believed how much better they would be from losing weight when I began. I couldn't even walk very much and didn't begin exercising until last fall.
Do this for yourself and you will see improvement.
Best of luck to you.

1stday13 · February 2013

Hey Sweetie, Hang in there. I have over 100# to lose. If you have already lost 18# since January you are doing something right! i have lost 16 #s.( I started Jan 2nd) I was discouraged last time I weighed, until I figured out that was 2+ pounds a week. :noway: Look around the groups & other people on here. Groups have several with "over 100" to lose. People? Some over 400#, need to lose 200+ . One of my friends has lost almost 200#s & still has another 100#s to go.Like others have said to you, you have to figure out what works for you. We are all different. Just don't give up!! Remember you are trying to change your lifestyle to something you can do for the rest of your life. Friend me if you like. I try to encourage my friends, but also am honest if I see something not so good. :flowerforyou:

200+ to lose and totally utterly confused!

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