lets talk about insulin

bump

It does at least 2 main things - (as science advances we may find more):

1. "Insulin binds to a receptor at the muscle cell surface, allowing glucose to be transported across the cell membrane to be used for energy or to replace depleted glycogen levels. Without the action of those glucose transporters being turned on by insulin, glucose is stuck floating around in the fluid outside our cells."

2. "And in fat cells, stimulating the same receptor shuts off fat release and promoted fatty acid uptake, triglyceride synthesis, and fat storage"

my source is The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Drs Phinney and Volek.


I have never heard of it telling cells when to build tissue.

Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

^ This link is exceptional and I spam it frequently. I would recommend that people read it multiple times.

I read the article linked above, and while it does have some good points, I think that it dealing with folks with a normally functioning pancreas. The trouble comes in when the body's insulin response is not accurate - in the case of too much insulin response, which is a factor in insulin resistance, and the reactive hypoglycemia that hyperinsulinemia creates. (which triggers hunger, even when the person knows they just ate a couple hours ago and should not be hungry).

I think that the dietary advise of the decades to eat every 2 -3 hours never lets the insulin levels decrease, keeping people on a blood sugar roller coaster (unless they have a well functioning endocrine system and can keep it steady despite).

What I am seeing is that the endocrine system is so damn complex, and interdependent, I am leery of the experts that say do x,z, and z. As a type 2 diabetic, I just watch my glucose meter, labs, carb craving levels, and weight loss to see if I'm on the right track. But I am fascinated with the science of it.

So...
Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?

My understanding is that it's basically a signalling chemical. It tells you cells when to build tissue. The higher your insulin levels, the stronger that signal to build will be. It is also my understanding that insulin isn't specific to to fat or anything else... that it simply tells your cells to build tissue, and what types of tissue they build is dependent on a variety of factors.

True? Completely wrong? What say you?

I am a fourth year medical student - whose almost done with rotations, so not a Dr but I will have my MD in a few months.

People on boards do freak out about insulin too much in my opinion so I'll just give you a basic overview then my thoughts on in it - however I just want to preface saying that I am going to be discussing it in regards to a healthy person, if someone has DM type II or I or is prediabetic then they are under a different set of circumstances

Insulin is secreted by your pancreas and has a number of functions - like you said it gives a 'building signal' which encourages adipose/muscle production, it opens certain glucose channels which allow sugar to enter certain cells including skeletal muscle tissue and it promotes the formation of glycogen which is a stored form of energy.

people typically spike insulin when they are post-prandial or in a post feeding state and a normal persons sugar will return to their 'baseline' level usually within two hours.

In regards to dieting: Insulin does not make you fat, people believe that their low carb diets are working because they arent spiking insulin but in reality the reason why low carb causes you to lose weight is because you are depleting your glycogen (which takes a lot longer then people think, you wont deplete all your glycogen in one hard workout, it takes a while) so your body has to oxidize fat - betaoxidation of fatty acids releases ketone bodies --> hence why people like to say they are in ketosis, just a fancy way to say you are producing ketones.

should you really be worrying about insulin? unless you are diabetic or have some sort of metabolic abnormality, in other words you are a 'normal' individual - no, just eat at a deficit and the weight will come off. Also as a note when you eat a large protein/fat based meal you will still spike an insulin level - it doesn't require some magic number of carbs.

If you are a person concerned about Insulin resistance then I encourage you to visit your Dr.

okay ... I look at things much more simply than many people seem to want to discuss. I am a diabetic and take both Lantis and Novolin 70/30 daily and at one time in amounts that would probably kill a horse. I am very insulin resistant.

One of the first things to keep in mind - if you take insulin, it means your body will 'create' weight through the process of feeding your cells. That is in its simplest form exactly what insulin is suppose to do. One of the big problems, particularly for new diabetics, is weight gain once insulin use begins. And let's be real here ... diabetes is in its simplest form - starvation. You cannot process the food properly and your body believes it is starving. This never ends until your body can produce enough insulin to maintain a balance without assistance.. Thus people gain weight.

The second thing that is important is how you handle your insulin with whatever diet you design. I can't give you good answers, because I don't do things the recommended ways. My personal pattern is eat nothing until lunch time and then dinner. I usually have to have a snack in the afternoon and before bedtime (something I am trying to eliminate - but years of repetition are hard to beat. I then have to look at my activity (exercise) for the day. That is something extremely important because you burn energy and you are not completely replacing it when on a diet program. This is when you can drop very low in your blood sugar ( obviously). I am fortunate that my body tells me (via tremors) when I drop too low and I can supplement my sugar needs via carbs or whatever.

With this all said, I use my BS measurements to lower my insulin intake until I reach a balance. I have literally cut my insulin in half in the 6 or 7 weeks I have been on the program. I am hoping once I reach my goal weight, insulin will be a thing of the past.

I don't know if this helps, perhaps I can answer more specific questions if anyone wants to post them.

keep up the good work!
Personally, I'm struggling to find the balance....I go low at night off 14 units of Levimir and find myself going 350+ during the daytime. I am consideriing asking for a meal time insulin as well.

Tagging for the discussion

should you really be worrying about insulin? unless you are diabetic or have some sort of metabolic abnormality, in other words you are a 'normal' individual - no, just eat at a deficit and the weight will come off. Also as a note when you eat a large protein/fat based meal you will still spike an insulin level - it doesn't require some magic number of carbs.


[/quote]

But the problem is that insulin resistance is a continuum - normal looking people may have it for years before it reaches the level of diabetes. The low fat high carb diet promoted everywhere is just putting fuel on the fire to develop diabetes years later.

For years I was "normal" and had a rather kick *kitten* metabolism, but all the while my pancreas was overproducing until it just couldn't keep up. I think of all the skim milk I drank as a kid/teen/young adult and shudder. I was unknowingly hastening the insulin resistance.

Is there an easy way to know if one will have a problem with insulin resistance later in life, so they can then eat accordingly to avoid the metabolic dysfunction?

I read the article linked above, and while it does have some good points, I think that it dealing with folks with a normally functioning pancreas. The trouble comes in when the body's insulin response is not accurate - in the case of too much insulin response, which is a factor in insulin resistance, and the reactive hypoglycemia that hyperinsulinemia creates. (which triggers hunger, even when the person knows they just ate a couple hours ago and should not be hungry).

I think that the dietary advise of the decades to eat every 2 -3 hours never lets the insulin levels decrease, keeping people on a blood sugar roller coaster (unless they have a well functioning endocrine system and can keep it steady despite).

What I am seeing is that the endocrine system is so damn complex, and interdependent, I am leery of the experts that say do x,z, and z. As a type 2 diabetic, I just watch my glucose meter, labs, carb craving levels, and weight loss to see if I'm on the right track. But I am fascinated with the science of it.

The problem is that the bleating sheep of the general populace act as if they should handle insulin in the same ways that diabetics do. I'm not sure of the exact statistics, but I'm certain that most people do not have issues with insulin, and if they suspect that they do, they should really have it confirmed by a doctor before they presume that there diet is impacted by it.

What I mean is that there is a general fear that carbs and sugars somehow cause weight gain, when the reality is, that most people are not going to gain weight because they ate a banana.

I read the article linked above, and while it does have some good points, I think that it dealing with folks with a normally functioning pancreas. The trouble comes in when the body's insulin response is not accurate - in the case of too much insulin response, which is a factor in insulin resistance, and the reactive hypoglycemia that hyperinsulinemia creates. (which triggers hunger, even when the person knows they just ate a couple hours ago and should not be hungry).

I think that the dietary advise of the decades to eat every 2 -3 hours never lets the insulin levels decrease, keeping people on a blood sugar roller coaster (unless they have a well functioning endocrine system and can keep it steady despite).

What I am seeing is that the endocrine system is so damn complex, and interdependent, I am leery of the experts that say do x,z, and z. As a type 2 diabetic, I just watch my glucose meter, labs, carb craving levels, and weight loss to see if I'm on the right track. But I am fascinated with the science of it.

The problem is that the bleating sheep of the general populace act as if they should handle insulin in the same ways that diabetics do. I'm not sure of the exact statistics, but I'm certain that most people do not have issues with insulin, and if they suspect that they do, they should really have it confirmed by a doctor before they presume that there diet is impacted by it.

What I mean is that there is a general fear that carbs and sugars somehow cause weight gain, when the reality is, that most people are not going to gain weight because they ate a banana.

I don't know...looking at the overweight/obesity stats and how prevalent it is, I don't know that we can say with certainty that most people do not have issues with insulin. The current way that "issues with insulin" is diagnosed is when people finally the reach the diabetic level. And even those stats are considered low by the experts - I believe that the ADA suggests that millions of people have diabetes and haven't been formally diagnosed. And before that, people think that if their blood sugar levels are ok, then they don't have an issue. But what they don't know is how much insulin is it requiring to keep your blood sugar ok? Is it a normal level, or is it a high, or super-high level?

I read the article linked above, and while it does have some good points, I think that it dealing with folks with a normally functioning pancreas. The trouble comes in when the body's insulin response is not accurate - in the case of too much insulin response, which is a factor in insulin resistance, and the reactive hypoglycemia that hyperinsulinemia creates. (which triggers hunger, even when the person knows they just ate a couple hours ago and should not be hungry).

I think that the dietary advise of the decades to eat every 2 -3 hours never lets the insulin levels decrease, keeping people on a blood sugar roller coaster (unless they have a well functioning endocrine system and can keep it steady despite).

What I am seeing is that the endocrine system is so damn complex, and interdependent, I am leery of the experts that say do x,z, and z. As a type 2 diabetic, I just watch my glucose meter, labs, carb craving levels, and weight loss to see if I'm on the right track. But I am fascinated with the science of it.

The problem is that the bleating sheep of the general populace act as if they should handle insulin in the same ways that diabetics do. I'm not sure of the exact statistics, but I'm certain that most people do not have issues with insulin, and if they suspect that they do, they should really have it confirmed by a doctor before they presume that there diet is impacted by it.

What I mean is that there is a general fear that carbs and sugars somehow cause weight gain, when the reality is, that most people are not going to gain weight because they ate a banana.

I don't know...looking at the overweight/obesity stats and how prevalent it is, I don't know that we can say with certainty that most people do not have issues with insulin. The current way that "issues with insulin" is diagnosed is when people finally the reach the diabetic level. And even those stats are considered low by the experts - I believe that the ADA suggests that millions of people have diabetes and haven't been formally diagnosed. And before that, people think that if their blood sugar levels are ok, then they don't have an issue. But what they don't know is how much insulin is it requiring to keep your blood sugar ok? Is it a normal level, or is it a high, or super-high level?

Well perhaps blood-glucose testing should be a regular fixture of the standard check-up. Have you ever considered that if someone with a normally-functioning pancreas suddenly decided to modify their diet as if they have insulin issues that the sudden underactivity of the pancreas could result in a pre-diabetic or hypoglycemic state?

So...
Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?

My understanding is that it's basically a signalling chemical. It tells you cells when to build tissue. The higher your insulin levels, the stronger that signal to build will be. It is also my understanding that insulin isn't specific to to fat or anything else... that it simply tells your cells to build tissue, and what types of tissue they build is dependent on a variety of factors.

True? Completely wrong? What say you?

I am a fourth year medical student - whose almost done with rotations, so not a Dr but I will have my MD in a few months.

People on boards do freak out about insulin too much in my opinion so I'll just give you a basic overview then my thoughts on in it - however I just want to preface saying that I am going to be discussing it in regards to a healthy person, if someone has DM type II or I or is prediabetic then they are under a different set of circumstances

Insulin is secreted by your pancreas and has a number of functions - like you said it gives a 'building signal' which encourages adipose/muscle production, it opens certain glucose channels which allow sugar to enter certain cells including skeletal muscle tissue and it promotes the formation of glycogen which is a stored form of energy.

people typically spike insulin when they are post-prandial or in a post feeding state and a normal persons sugar will return to their 'baseline' level usually within two hours.

In regards to dieting: Insulin does not make you fat, people believe that their low carb diets are working because they arent spiking insulin but in reality the reason why low carb causes you to lose weight is because you are depleting your glycogen (which takes a lot longer then people think, you wont deplete all your glycogen in one hard workout, it takes a while) so your body has to oxidize fat - betaoxidation of fatty acids releases ketone bodies --> hence why people like to say they are in ketosis, just a fancy way to say you are producing ketones.

should you really be worrying about insulin? unless you are diabetic or have some sort of metabolic abnormality, in other words you are a 'normal' individual - no, just eat at a deficit and the weight will come off. Also as a note when you eat a large protein/fat based meal you will still spike an insulin level - it doesn't require some magic number of carbs.

If you are a person concerned about Insulin resistance then I encourage you to visit your Dr.

Thanks for your very well presented and informative post.

I appreciated the "soon to be MD's" perspective on this discussion. I guess I'm wondering how jacksonpt's question on what insulin is and how it works has somehow turned into a discussion of Insulin Resistance and diabetes. I do not agree at all that all of the general population is somewhere on a scale of insulin sensitivity issues. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that happens when this topic is brought up. People with an agenda get on the soapbox.

Seems to me if someone wants to start a thread about insulin resistance they should instead of hijacking this one.

Just as a reminder, this was the original question: "Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?"
I don't see anthing there about insulin resistance and how that impacts obesity in the general population. Let's get back on track.

Sad, I thought this was a really good thread full of great points and respectful discussion.