lets talk about insulin

Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular?

Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)

1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.



The first point explains why simple sugars result in a greater performance boost than do complex carbs, correct? The article talks about insulin response carbs vs protein, but not simple carbs vs complex carbs.

The second point is what I'm most curious about. Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular? Also, wouldn't this point suggest that fasted training would be less effective since insulin levels are lower?

The third point is clearly where all the insulin panicking comes from. But according to the article, things balance themselves out over the course of the day such that times of high insulin level (lower fat burn) are balanced out by times of low insulin (higher fat burns). So assuming a reasonably healthy diet with reasonably intake, this is largely a non-issue, right?

Not sure what to make of point 4 yet... still mulling that one over a bit.

I appreciated the "soon to be MD's" perspective on this discussion. I guess I'm wondering how jacksonpt's question on what insulin is and how it works has somehow turned into a discussion of Insulin Resistance and diabetes. I do not agree at all that all of the general population is somewhere on a scale of insulin sensitivity issues. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that happens when this topic is brought up. People with an agenda get on the soapbox.

Seems to me if someone wants to start a thread about insulin resistance they should instead of hijacking this one.

Just as a reminder, this was the original question: "Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?"
I don't see anthing there about insulin resistance and how that impacts obesity in the general population. Let's get back on track.

Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular?

Whey is popular due to marketing and muscle magazines.

I have no doubt this is a big part of it... but behind any great lie is a modicum of truth, no?

I don't think the popularity of whey has anything to do with insulin honestly. For the record, I use whey myself and think it's a great supplement to help me hit my protein target for the day, so I certainly don't mean to suggest that it's useless. I just think the application, dosage, and timing of it are all over-hyped and over-marketed, hence my comment about it's popularity.

Over-hyped and over-marketed... I agree. Would you go so far as to say completely irrelevant?

I guess this gets at the most optimal/efficient approach (a la Layne Norton) vs the more pragmatic approach (Alan Aragon).

Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)

1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.



The first point explains why simple sugars result in a greater performance boost than do complex carbs, correct? The article talks about insulin response carbs vs protein, but not simple carbs vs complex carbs.

The second point is what I'm most curious about. Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular? Also, wouldn't this point suggest that fasted training would be less effective since insulin levels are lower?

The third point is clearly where all the insulin panicking comes from. But according to the article, things balance themselves out over the course of the day such that times of high insulin level (lower fat burn) are balanced out by times of low insulin (higher fat burns). So assuming a reasonably healthy diet with reasonably intake, this is largely a non-issue, right?

Not sure what to make of point 4 yet... still mulling that one over a bit.

1. Correct. Important if your are engaged in training. Probably not otherwise.
2. As I understand it, insulin is basically a shuttle hormone for nutrients. The research I've read indicates fasted training is slightly less effective than fed training. Both Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon have written summarizing some of the research on this.
3. You assesment is dead on with those set of assumptions. This is where things get short circuited for the insulin resistant and why they end up storing fat instead of getting adequate nutrients to the tissue as I understand it.
4. There is not a direct relationship of insulin to blood sugar. The issues that can take place relate to overconsumption of carbs leading to metabolic issues like insulin resistance. But, clearly, as I learned when I first saw this article about a year ago (thanks SS) protein is equally insulinogenic with no cooresponding spike in blood sugar.

Conclusion: Insulin is not the problem. It's just doing it's job. Any problem traces back to genetic predispostion and/ or diet composition in my (admittedly limited) view.

Diet composition as in macros?

Have you seen this info from Kreiger?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

ok, things I'm taking away from this article (feel free to comment/discuss as necessary)

1) insulin spikes are good for performance as it allows (increases?) blood glucose transfer into cells for use as energy.
2) insulin affects/leads to/causes (not sure how direct the correlation is) protein synthesis (technically this is the creation of new protein, but what exactly is that... muscle tissue growth? repair existing muscle? etc), which is obviously a good thing
3) insulin inhibits the breakdown of fat (bad) and increases the creation of fat (bad)
4) insulin and blood sugar do not have a 1:1 relationship (for lack of a better description)... meaning you can see significant insulin increases without the same significant blood sugar increase. However, blood sugar increases always result in a similar insulin increase.



The first point explains why simple sugars result in a greater performance boost than do complex carbs, correct? The article talks about insulin response carbs vs protein, but not simple carbs vs complex carbs.

The second point is what I'm most curious about. Considering whey is highly insulinic (or whatever the word is), is this why whey protein shakes post workout are so popular? Also, wouldn't this point suggest that fasted training would be less effective since insulin levels are lower?

The third point is clearly where all the insulin panicking comes from. But according to the article, things balance themselves out over the course of the day such that times of high insulin level (lower fat burn) are balanced out by times of low insulin (higher fat burns). So assuming a reasonably healthy diet with reasonably intake, this is largely a non-issue, right?

Not sure what to make of point 4 yet... still mulling that one over a bit.

1. Correct. Important if your are engaged in training. Probably not otherwise.
2. As I understand it, insulin is basically a shuttle hormone for nutrients. The research I've read indicates fasted training is slightly less effective than fed training. Both Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragon have written summarizing some of the research on this.
3. You assesment is dead on with those set of assumptions. This is where things get short circuited for the insulin resistant and why they end up storing fat instead of getting adequate nutrients to the tissue as I understand it.
4. There is not a direct relationship of insulin to blood sugar. The issues that can take place relate to overconsumption of carbs leading to metabolic issues like insulin resistance. But, clearly, as I learned when I first saw this article about a year ago (thanks SS) protein is equally insulinogenic with no cooresponding spike in blood sugar.

Conclusion: Insulin is not the problem. It's just doing it's job. Any problem traces back to genetic predispostion and/ or diet composition in my (admittedly limited) view.

Diet composition as in macros?

Yes, exactly. Specifically, ridiculous overconsumption of simple/ sugary carbs. I don't remember the study I read or I'd post the link but it was about a obsese, inactive population that eats ridiculous amouts of sugary carbs, like 400 to 600 grams per day. The was a strong corelation to this level of consumption, combined with inactivity, and insulin resistance. That is not to say that all insulin resistants are in the grouping. For some, there can be genetic or other causes. But in any event, in my view, the problem is not insulin. It's just doing what it's designed to do: shuttle nutrients from ingested food to where they are needed or put them in to storage in the case of a surplus.

The way I see it, it would be far more effective for the majority of the non-genetically predisposed population to be mostly concerned with eating a balanced diet at maintenance (if not overweight) and getting plenty of exercise, which keeps insulin sensitivity high and stop worrying about insulin. It's just doing it's job.

Or as Davpul would say, "JUST WORK OUT!" lol

So...
Let's start with the most basic question... what is insulin's function in the body? What does it really do?

My understanding is that it's basically a signalling chemical. It tells you cells when to build tissue. The higher your insulin levels, the stronger that signal to build will be. It is also my understanding that insulin isn't specific to to fat or anything else... that it simply tells your cells to build tissue, and what types of tissue they build is dependent on a variety of factors.

True? Completely wrong? What say you?

I'm a type 1 diabetic and use insulin via insulin pump. Think of insulin as a key and it unlocks the cell so it can use glucose (which food is converted into glucose when digested) as it's fuel. Insulin won't make you fat, too much food and not enough exercise makes you fat. People who take insulin can lose weight, I'm living proof. I was fat because I ate too much food. Period.