Controversial Topic - Opinions & Debate please!

We watched a video about a study that was done about this in my HR class in college. They put a hidden camera on two women, a large one and a thin one with the same exact qualifications and experience, and sent them into interview for the same position with the same interviewer. They were told to give the same general responses, smile, etc. The result was that the thin woman got the job offer and the large one didn't. When the interviewer was told the interviewees were part of study and asked why he chose the thin woman over the large woman, he said that he "couldn't put his finger on it" and that the thin woman was a "better fit for the company".

This is just one study but I'm not really surprised. It seemed like this is how it worked for thin, attractive people my whole life. They got what I didn't, all things being the same. Things are different now b*tches!!!

The sad part is it happens everyday, they were just honest enough to speak about it. How you look does play a large roll in a persons judgment of you. If you are overweight it can appear that you don't take pride in yourself. That can, in a human resources professionals mind, corrrelate to you not being up to the challenges of work. It's not right, but its true. I'm overweight, not severely, but I have never had a problem. Thank God.

I think people are uncomfortable around fat people. It's ridiculous.

Also, to weave in the concept of poor people not eating well because they are wasting money on vats of pure lard is ridiculous. That has nothing to do with the issue and it's odd that you would tie it in.

In the US that is illegal. Unless there are physical demands that the overweight person is not able to perform (i.e. bus drivers need to be able to move freely in the isles to evacuate the bus in an emergency, if someone can't fit in the isle because of their weight they can't form the essential functions of the job) it is against the law to not hire someone because of their weight (just like it is for race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.).

Using an office/IT type job as an example, if two people have the exact same qualifications and you don't hire one just because they are overweight, that is discrimination. Obviously most hiring managers won’t say that is the reason, but if they did or even hinted that a person was not hired because of their weight that person could file an Equal Opportunity complaint.

As for how does she have enough money to stay fat? I know it is often disputed that junk food costs less than healthy food, but if someone has $5 they are more likely to go get a value meal at McDonalds than go to the grocery store and get a loaf of wheat bread, a carton of eggs and a package of frozen spinach.

My opinion is this:

How when she must have other expenses does she have enough money living on benefits to remain large, after expenses most people who are earning barely enough money to buy food let alone someone on a low income like that? I agree that prejudice is wrong but I lost weight to do my job better and I am a much better employee now that I am fitter.

Is it whether you are fat or not or is it merely being fat represents being unhealthy and this hinders you in the work place?

Are you joking with me? Instead of focusing on the topic that you introduced, you are attacking people who live on benefits i.e. poor people? This is why regular people shouldn't have these debates and why people without public health degrees shouldn't be making public health policies or decisions (another reason why most of our politicians don't know what they are talking about)

In the field of public health, it is COMMON knowledge that poor people are more likely to be overweight or obese. In the United States, this also means that minorities like African Americans are more likely to be overweight or obese. I'm not going to go into the specifics of this, as you could have a whole semester on it in public health school, but that's the reality. The fact that she is or is not on benefits shouldn't be used against her. I hope that if you ever have a rough time in life, or go bankrupt because of a major health issue or lose your job or so on or so forth, you don't have self-hate because you might have to go on benefits. The welfare system is there for a reason (although it needs some major reform in the United States).

When it comes to your original issue of whether or not employers are right/justified/allowed to discriminate against fat people, I'll agree that this happens alot, but it really shouldn't. I mean, would you fire your skinny employee if she became fat during her time employed? Would you hire an employee with a clear face or one with a few pimples?

The reality is that employers make hiring decisions for a whole variety of reasons, most of which are illogical. A recent study also showed that women who wear a moderate amount of makeup are more likely to get hired than women who don't wear any makeup and women who wear too much makeup are the least likely to be hired. Light-skinned people are more likely to be hired than dark-skinned people. People with "weird" names (like me) are less likely to be hired than John, Jane, and Sarah. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that hiring is completely subjective and when the hiring people themselves become more diverse, that's when we'll start to see hiring that is more "fair". Or someone will sue and it'll go to the supreme court.

If you've only gone to 12 interviews in 5 years, you're not trying very hard to find a job and probably are lazy and unambitious.

In the US that is illegal. Unless there are physical demands that the overweight person is not able to perform (i.e. bus drivers need to be able to move freely in the isles to evacuate the bus in an emergency, if someone can't fit in the isle because of their weight they can't form the essential functions of the job) it is against the law to not hire someone because of their weight (just like it is for race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.).

Using an office/IT type job as an example, if two people have the exact same qualifications and you don't hire one just because they are overweight, that is discrimination. Obviously most hiring managers won’t say that is the reason, but if they did or even hinted that a person was not hired because of their weight that person could file an Equal Opportunity complaint.

As for how does she have enough money to stay fat? I know it is often disputed that junk food costs less than healthy food, but if someone has $5 they are more likely to go get a value meal at McDonalds than go to the grocery store and get a loaf of wheat bread, a carton of eggs and a package of frozen spinach.

Wrong. Employers are not allowed to discriminate based on race, gender, pregnancy, disability, age, military service, or religious preference. That's where it ends. Everything else is up to the employer's discretion. Unless you are a tankass to the point where you roll with handicapped plates, you're SOL. Even then, they can just make up whatever they want. Laws against discrimination are a nice thought, but realistically unenforceable.

For me, it would depend on the role.

I work in an office and I conduct interviews. I honestly wouldn't think of not hiring someone because they were overweight.

However, if I worked in say a Health Food store and I wanted to employ an assistant, I wouldn't employ someone overweight.
Same as I wouldn't employ someone who was terribly underweight, had bad personal hygiene or acne.

I know, that sounds awful, but if I was running a health food store I'd want my staff to look healthy.

Acne, anorexia, being fat - it wouldn't put me off you for a role in my office though, so long as whatever issues you have won't impact your work. I would hire you based on your experience, qualifications and personality.

Hey, if you had to be gorgeous to work here, I'd be unemployed!

Background - I've been trained and certified as trained job coach, and job developer.

That being said: Weight is not a protected class in the United Stated Gollowmere is correct.

People tend to hire people that are like themselves, or the people they want to be. That is why countless studies how thinner people make more money on average. Is it unfair? Maybe, but what’s the solution fat people quotas at places of employment? People that are more qualified don't get hired all the time because they present themselves poorly in the interview. If part of that is because of their weight then only they can change that. People need to stop blaming others for their problems, life is not fair, its life. Before I get tons of responses saying I’m some heartless ahole. I realized that in my job I needed to lose weight if I wanted to advance, so for the past seven years I’ve been working out almost every day and have lost almost 140 pounds, so if I can do while employed with children this women in England should be able to as well.

I think it depends on the type of work.

I do specialized IT consulting - usually during a crisis - and over the years I've noticed that super fit people generally have much less stamina for long work hours and missing meals.

I normally live on < 6 hours of sleep and can reasonably function in a crisis for up to 24-36 hours of work and maintain a good level of functionality - fueled mostly with pizza, coffee and eye drops. Usually between 12 and 18 hours - the super fit people are sneaking off to sleep. And we let them - If they don't - they crash, mentally, pretty fast and pretty hard (which can be a bit comical).

Now, the exact opposite would probably be true for lumberjacks or something.

So I think any decent manager would tend to look at the type of work and the demands of that work to choose people to work for them.

IMO this is an none issue, this single case. 12 in 5 years is a joke.

Fatter people are not lazy, SHE is lazy. thats once every 6 months she applied for a job? If I was unemployed I'd be applying for jobs almost daily.

Agreed, I think this says it all really. From an employers point of view this is risk management. Unfortunate truth. She could have easily lost that weight within that 12 years also.

Wrong. Employers are not allowed to discriminate based on race, gender, pregnancy, disability, age, military service, or religious preference. That's where it ends. Everything else is up to the employer's discretion. Unless you are a tankass to the point where you roll with handicapped plates, you're SOL. Even then, they can just make up whatever they want. Laws against discrimination are a nice thought, but realistically unenforceable.

Agreed. Need we look at Hooters? I think that there are certain fits for a job. For example, when I was managing a gas station, I WOULD NOT Hire a person who was 400+ lbs. Call me a crazy b1tch but 400+ lbs is ALOT to haul around a tiny gas station. I don't need those wide hips knocking off my products. Tall 200-300lbs, maybe. But 400+, go somewhere else.

I also agree that if she ONLY has 12 interviews in 5 years, she's lazy and unambitious.

/end rant

EDiTED TO ADD QUOTE

Poor people are by far the ones who are bigger, because they can't afford healthy foods on a regular basis and don't have as much time to prepare food. When eating out, the cheapest places with the most portions for your money are also the most unhealthy. Less money doesn't = less food, it lessens the quality of the food being consumed, and THEN it means less food but you're still getting fatty, processed foods when you can afford it.

Also, yes, employers do discriminate on size. The woman on that television program was not an isolated incident.

People who have never been seriously overweight and poor really don't get to have an opinion on this because they have no experience in that situation and don't know what they're talking about- which I know will make you all whine and cry like petulant children, because MFP forums people can't stand to be told they're not allowed an opinion. Get over it.

In the US that is illegal. Unless there are physical demands that the overweight person is not able to perform (i.e. bus drivers need to be able to move freely in the isles to evacuate the bus in an emergency, if someone can't fit in the isle because of their weight they can't form the essential functions of the job) it is against the law to not hire someone because of their weight (just like it is for race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.).

Using an office/IT type job as an example, if two people have the exact same qualifications and you don't hire one just because they are overweight, that is discrimination. Obviously most hiring managers won’t say that is the reason, but if they did or even hinted that a person was not hired because of their weight that person could file an Equal Opportunity complaint.

As for how does she have enough money to stay fat? I know it is often disputed that junk food costs less than healthy food, but if someone has $5 they are more likely to go get a value meal at McDonalds than go to the grocery store and get a loaf of wheat bread, a carton of eggs and a package of frozen spinach.

Wrong. Employers are not allowed to discriminate based on race, gender, pregnancy, disability, age, military service, or religious preference. That's where it ends. Everything else is up to the employer's discretion. Unless you are a tankass to the point where you roll with handicapped plates, you're SOL. Even then, they can just make up whatever they want. Laws against discrimination are a nice thought, but realistically unenforceable.

Agree that it is realistically unenforceable, that is why I mentioned that hiring managers were not likley to say weight is the reason. But you are right and I stand corrected, there is no federal law prohibiting not hiring because of weight so it isn't illegal in all of the US. The EEOC does advise not to inquire about weight/height unless it is job related: http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/inquiries_height_weight.cfm

Just to play devils advocate, one could argue that because obseity is now covered by the ADAAA, if it substantially limits a major life activity (and I imagine if it went as far as court the obese person could say that their weight impacts their breathing, blood sugar, mobility, etc.) that it is a disability and, it is a federal law that you cannot discriminate due to disability.