Controversial Topic - Opinions & Debate please!
Replies
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I guess I'd have to say I support the company's freedom to hire whoever they feel best fits their desires, even if it is a matter of weight.
I think part of the issue is that this issue skirts a gray area between a health issue and lifestyle / image issue. Most of us can probably agree that, even if we do not support what someone has done to get that weight, being obese doesn't automatically make them a bad PERSON in any way. In some cases, there may be a genuine medical issue at the heart of the matter. In others, it's more lifestyle-based.
But one of the factors companies must consider when hiring employees is the image given off by those employees. The OP doesn't mention what kind of position the individual was applying for. If these positions involved interaction with customers, then the company will want the employees that make the best impression.
Unfair as it may be, that bias about overweight people does exist. There are those who have become overweight because they didn't take care of themselves in some way. The visual bias can extend to other areas, such as tattoos or piercings. A straight-laced type company probably won't want an employee with "Love" and "Hate" tattooed on their knuckles, a tattoo on their neck where it can be seen, or what the company considers excessive piercings. Heck, there are some people who feel I shouldn't have any facial hair, despite the fact it does NOTHING to affect my performance, just because their image of the "right" way to look involves being clean-shaven.
If all else is equal, the company is going to want to hire the applicant who gives off the best visual presentation and who looks the most "squared away". They will want someone who looks the part. How often do we discuss personal trainers or dieticians who don't look like they follow their own advice?0 -
If you've only gone to 12 interviews in 5 years, you're not trying very hard to find a job and probably are lazy and unambitious.
^^^^^Exactly! So it's really not about the weight at all.0 -
Having once been obese, I now have a better understanding of why and how people end up that way. In my experience, being obese is about so much more than poor eating habits. I had a lot of emotional issues that I refused to acknowledge. I WAS lazy and unmotivated. I was willing, for nearly a decade, to accept less than mediocrity for myself. Why on Earth would any intelligent business person want to hire me, even with my academic credentials, when I didn't want better for myself and wasn't willing to try to be the best I could be?
On top of that, being a free market champion to my very core, I firmly believe in a private company's right to hire and fire whomever they want, for whatever reasons they want.0 -
Well said and I agree. Plus, fat people have more health issues and will likely need more medical services & medications which drive up employers health care costs.Short answer: I agree with the CEO.
Convoluted answer: How many overweight people have you seen on these boards alone talking about "I can't do it", "it's too hard", "I am lacking motivation today". Now ask yourself, are these the kinds of attitudes you want in a workplace? The way a person treats their body is generally a pretty good indicator for how they approach other aspects of their life. While this isn't always the case, why would an employer in today's economy bother risking hiring someone who gives such a first impression, when there are so many potential hires floating around the job market today?
Your question regarding the money...it's far less expensive to eat unhealthy foods (fast food, processed/prepared/packaged food) than it is to eat healthy food. Since I started eating clean most of the time, my grocery budget has increased nearly 30%.
Really? I find that when I'm cooking healthy foods as opposed to buying fast food for the family, I spend less and usually have some tasty leftovers to carry for lunch the next day. As the mother of a teenaged boy who would live on pizza and Dairy Queen chicken baskets, I've found that NOT buying fast food has put extra money in my pocket and because I refuse to go for the quick fix, we're no longer wasting much of what I buy either.
Buying whole foods has given me the ability to get a whole lotta dinners out of just a few ingredients. I'm not well off and as a matter of fact, I'm currently supporting three people on 20% less salary than I had just 2 months ago. Eating out cost us substantially more than what I now spend on groceries and kept me fat and unhappy as well.0 -
It doesn't really matter if it's fair or not. We all discriminate, have biases, and pass judgement every day whether we realize it or not. It may not be fair but it's reality.0
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Sooo...they're not lazy, they're stupid. Basically you agree with half of what I said earlier then. Excellent. :drinker:
There is a difference between stupid and uneducated. If you were less uneducated maybe you would know that
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I have hired both.. Can't say that it made much difference in their ability to work.
Overweight women might have been a little slower, but had an overwelming since to please and did their job to the best of their ability. Were out, here and there for sickness, but came to work on time. THE MAJORITY AS I SAW IT!
Slender women could do things a little faster, but really wanted to do things they wanted to do, not what was asked of them. They would come in late because they were out partying, or lay out sick because they had a hangover. THE MAJORITY AS I SAW IT!
Now with that being said, I do realize that I was hiring them to work at a bar and grill, you get a lot of individuals that really just don't have that drive to do more than survive outlook in life.0 -
Sooo...they're not lazy, they're stupid. Basically you agree with half of what I said earlier then. Excellent. :drinker:
There is a difference between stupid and uneducated. If you were less uneducated maybe you would know that
Stupid
1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.
Anyone who cannot perform the basic math required to figure out that fast food is more expensive than shopping at a grocery store fits that definition.
ETA: and now that all of the caloric information for most fast food is readily available, one could say the same thing for comparing nutrition labels.
That's a pretty broad sweeping accusation - let me just say that I wasn't under the impression we were saying "fast food is what poor people buy" I thought the topic was "they aren't aware they can do more effective cost distribution in a grocery store." Furthermore I don't think anyone has ever disputed "eating out' being more expensive than making your own food.
Whats more, not a lot of people know what to do with a nutrition label. What numbers are important, which aren't. That isn't stupidity, that is not understanding due to lack of education. It took me several sessions with a dietitian to "get it" on nutrition labels, and I have had a lot of fun explaining what I now know with folks who don't.0 -
In the US that is illegal. Unless there are physical demands that the overweight person is not able to perform (i.e. bus drivers need to be able to move freely in the isles to evacuate the bus in an emergency, if someone can't fit in the isle because of their weight they can't form the essential functions of the job) it is against the law to not hire someone because of their weight (just like it is for race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc.).
Using an office/IT type job as an example, if two people have the exact same qualifications and you don't hire one just because they are overweight, that is discrimination. Obviously most hiring managers won’t say that is the reason, but if they did or even hinted that a person was not hired because of their weight that person could file an Equal Opportunity complaint.
As for how does she have enough money to stay fat? I know it is often disputed that junk food costs less than healthy food, but if someone has $5 they are more likely to go get a value meal at McDonalds than go to the grocery store and get a loaf of wheat bread, a carton of eggs and a package of frozen spinach.
This is incorrect. "Weight" is not a protected class in the United States, and nearly all the States do not have this as a protected class either.
Study after study purports that obesity is a major factor in missing days of work, mainly due to other health ailments caused by the weight. I know this is not the case for all obese (or overweight) people, so no need for everyone to tell me they are obese and healthy. But the studies are what they are, and it is also a primary driver in higher rates for health insurance, which impacts employers bottom line since many, if not most, provide health insurance or at least kick in some premium contribution.
My position here involves managing the premiums for the company and the finances in general. Just like we can't knowingly hire someone with a bad back (because of the type of employment), obesity costs the company money. And if the company doesn't "make a certain amount of money", it means layoffs or cutbacks, and equally as bad, not kicking in as much for health insurance (although that's about to change quite obviously here in the U.S.).
Many states, like the one I'm in, are also "at will" states which means we can terminate without even stating a reason, although we would have to prove the reason were we to be sued by someone in a protected class. Hence, all the money spent on compliance.0 -
That's a pretty broad sweeping accusation - let me just say that I wasn't under the impression we were saying "fast food is what poor people buy" I thought the topic was "they aren't aware they can do more effective cost distribution in a grocery store." Furthermore I don't think anyone has ever disputed "eating out' being more expensive than making your own food.
Whats more, not a lot of people know what to do with a nutrition label. What numbers are important, which aren't. That isn't stupidity, that is not understanding due to lack of education. It took me several sessions with a dietitian to "get it" on nutrition labels, and I have had a lot of fun explaining what I now know with folks who don't.
My apologies...I must just be incredibly gifted, ya' know, with my ninth grade education and self-taught reading comprehension. I just assume that people are capable of processing information without it being spoonfed to them in steps that would make the average third grader tell them to 'hurry the hell up so we can get on with class'.
ETA: even with that taken into consideration, it's no excuse. All labels clearly state the most important factor for not turning into a blimp: calories. Thus, it comes right back down to basic math and reasoning. Option A has 900 calories. Option B has 165 calories. Which is less likely to make my *kitten* widen?
Very nice -obvious- example, however that isn't always the case when it comes to comparing food labels. Cost is an important factor that a lot of people seem to forget about. That 160 cal snack of yours MIGHT be healthier, but if its going to cost me $6 then Id rather grab the $3 bag of chips. On the surface it looks like it makes more sense, when instead you give someone the tools and the education to do so they can find a better, more appropriate middle ground where they won't have to spend $6 on a snack that wouldn't make a mouse happy but can eat in a healthier manner.
Im glad you managed to figure out how to be perfect on your own with no help from anyone, it really must be nice and I envy that about you. It is still a struggle for me, a year later to stay on top of all the factors that go into making wiser choices. Maybe less of a struggle, but it sure isn't EZ PZ LMN SQZ yet and I have never considered myself subpar for intellect, so I base my opinions on this topic posted by OP on the idea that income doesn't dictate intellectual capacity, just access to reliable education.0 -
That's a pretty broad sweeping accusation - let me just say that I wasn't under the impression we were saying "fast food is what poor people buy" I thought the topic was "they aren't aware they can do more effective cost distribution in a grocery store." Furthermore I don't think anyone has ever disputed "eating out' being more expensive than making your own food.
Whats more, not a lot of people know what to do with a nutrition label. What numbers are important, which aren't. That isn't stupidity, that is not understanding due to lack of education. It took me several sessions with a dietitian to "get it" on nutrition labels, and I have had a lot of fun explaining what I now know with folks who don't.
My apologies...I must just be incredibly gifted, ya' know, with my ninth grade education and self-taught reading comprehension. I just assume that people are capable of processing information without it being spoonfed to them in steps that would make the average third grader tell them to 'hurry the hell up so we can get on with class'.
ETA: even with that taken into consideration, it's no excuse. All labels clearly state the most important factor for not turning into a blimp: calories. Thus, it comes right back down to basic math and reasoning. Option A has 900 calories. Option B has 165 calories. Which is less likely to make my *kitten* widen?
Some people don't even know it is all about the calories. They think they need to eat "lowfat" or just "no transfat" to lose weight. Basically, ignorance.0 -
That's a pretty broad sweeping accusation - let me just say that I wasn't under the impression we were saying "fast food is what poor people buy" I thought the topic was "they aren't aware they can do more effective cost distribution in a grocery store." Furthermore I don't think anyone has ever disputed "eating out' being more expensive than making your own food.
Whats more, not a lot of people know what to do with a nutrition label. What numbers are important, which aren't. That isn't stupidity, that is not understanding due to lack of education. It took me several sessions with a dietitian to "get it" on nutrition labels, and I have had a lot of fun explaining what I now know with folks who don't.
My apologies...I must just be incredibly gifted, ya' know, with my ninth grade education and self-taught reading comprehension. I just assume that people are capable of processing information without it being spoonfed to them in steps that would make the average third grader tell them to 'hurry the hell up so we can get on with class'.
ETA: even with that taken into consideration, it's no excuse. All labels clearly state the most important factor for not turning into a blimp: calories. Thus, it comes right back down to basic math and reasoning. Option A has 900 calories. Option B has 165 calories. Which is less likely to make my *kitten* widen?
Plenty of reasonably intelligent people make stupid decisions because they allow themselves to make things more complex than it really is, and use the perceived complexity to try to find loopholes that don't actually exist (as long as I don't eat carbs I can have as much as I want, this ranch is fat free so I can use as much as I want, etc). That is the definition of uneducated, but I do think it's important to recognize that even well educated folks struggle with the basics and the discipline required to be successful.
Also serving size matters, and depending on the product can be exceedingly deceptive.
Relatively simple stuff, but I hesitate to go so far as to say people that are ignorant of these things are stupid.0 -
Having once been obese, I now have a better understanding of why and how people end up that way. In my experience, being obese is about so much more than poor eating habits. I had a lot of emotional issues that I refused to acknowledge. I WAS lazy and unmotivated. I was willing, for nearly a decade, to accept less than mediocrity for myself. Why on Earth would any intelligent business person want to hire me, even with my academic credentials, when I didn't want better for myself and wasn't willing to try to be the best I could be?
On top of that, being a free market champion to my very core, I firmly believe in a private company's right to hire and fire whomever they want, for whatever reasons they want.
^ Excellent point. I 100% agree with you,well said.0
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