Strong Lifts vs. Starting Strength

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  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
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    Here is my summary...

    They are more or less the same.

    "Mostly", people who go with Starting Strength read the book, get an excellent foundation of knowledge, and end up being very strong.

    "Mostly", people who go with StrongLifts do so because they don't feel like reading a book, and end up getting stuck at some point.

    As far as programming, they are virtually identical. StrongLifts is 5x5; Starting Strength is 3x5. StrongLifts has the Barbell Row whereas SS has the Power Clean. It is very common to substitute the Row for the Power Clean, and many people do that because the Power Clean is very hard to get right without coaching.

    The 5x5 protocol should only be done for a few weeks in my opinion. It's for the completely untrained newbie only. Afterwards, it's too much volume and will interfere with progression. 3x5 is better. I am pretty sure this is written into the StrongLifts plan, but most people don't read the whole thing so they end up doing 5x5 for months.

    Bottom line - whatever you do, if you're serious about these compound lifts, you should read the book Starting Strength. At the end of the day, there is really no difference between SS with Rows and SL. But having read Starting Strength, you will be armed with more understanding and will make better progress.

    Thanks Taso I'd rather know the education behind it. I wasn't aware that SL wasn't an actual book to read. That's why I posted to earloy to be able to read up in advance. You're the best. Another reason you're my Valentine haha :love:
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
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    The 5x5 protocol should only be done for a few weeks in my opinion. It's for the completely untrained newbie only. Afterwards, it's too much volume and will interfere with progression. 3x5 is better. I am pretty sure this is written into the StrongLifts plan, but most people don't read the whole thing so they end up doing 5x5 for months.


    The SL plan has you doing 5x5 full-time until you have to reset on a lift for the 3rd time. Then you switch to 3x5. Then 1x5. Of course, by that time, you're probably lifting enough to where 5/3/1 would be better. But that's a ways down the road.

    Maybe this is my imagination, but I don't think anybody really reads past the descriptions of "Workout A" and "Workout B"... It seems to always come as a surprise to the person when I tell them to switch to 3x5....
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
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    You can't do either of these on a calorie deficit...how can you when you're adding 5lbs every workout? You'd last 3 weeks at best before being pinned.

    Of course you can. I've done SS and 5/3/1 while in calorie deficit and made tremendous strength gains.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
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    nm got taso's answer I was about to be very discouraged.
  • scottdeeby
    scottdeeby Posts: 95 Member
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    I don't really think bent over rows is a good sub for power cleans. I think doing fast deads are a better sub for power cleans. It's the speed that matters, IMO.
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
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    Thanks Taso I'd rather know the education behind it. I wasn't aware that SL wasn't an actual book to read. That's why I posted to earloy to be able to read up in advance. You're the best. Another reason you're my Valentine haha :love:

    It is a book actually. It's an ebook. But it's still not as rich and detailed as SS. SS has like 60 pages on The Squat alone... I guess you really need to be a bit of a geek to get into it :)
  • trogalicious
    trogalicious Posts: 4,584 Member
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    Just finished Stronglifts. It was an easy program to follow.
  • billsica
    billsica Posts: 4,741 Member
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    I'm doing strong lifts 3x5. I read starting strength book mostly and didn't feel comfortable with it. I watched the youtube videos for strong lifts A and B day. I'll do those till I get stuck. I don't have a trainer, or anyone looking at my form. So its just me, and at least I think I look like I know what I'm doing.
    I can tell right now that there will have to be modification at some point to this.
  • tigerlion2013
    tigerlion2013 Posts: 16 Member
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    I can't speak from personal experience. I was, however, researching this topic myself for a friend. This link has a useful comparison:

    http://spotmebro.com/starting-strength-vs-stronglifts-5x5/
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
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    Thanks Taso I'd rather know the education behind it. I wasn't aware that SL wasn't an actual book to read. That's why I posted to earloy to be able to read up in advance. You're the best. Another reason you're my Valentine haha :love:

    It is a book actually. It's an ebook. But it's still not as rich and detailed as SS. SS has like 60 pages on The Squat alone... I guess you really need to be a bit of a geek to get into it :)

    Kinda am.. learned from the best haha

    I can't speak from personal experience. I was, however, researching this topic myself for a friend. This link has a useful comparison:

    http://spotmebro.com/starting-strength-vs-stronglifts-5x5/

    Thanks I'll check it out later =)
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
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    The 5x5 protocol should only be done for a few weeks in my opinion. It's for the completely untrained newbie only. Afterwards, it's too much volume and will interfere with progression. 3x5 is better. I am pretty sure this is written into the StrongLifts plan, but most people don't read the whole thing so they end up doing 5x5 for months.


    The SL plan has you doing 5x5 full-time until you have to reset on a lift for the 3rd time. Then you switch to 3x5. Then 1x5. Of course, by that time, you're probably lifting enough to where 5/3/1 would be better. But that's a ways down the road.

    Maybe this is my imagination, but I don't think anybody really reads past the descriptions of "Workout A" and "Workout B"... It seems to always come as a surprise to the person when I tell them to switch to 3x5....


    Then I guess I'm the special snowflake that actually read Mehdi's novel. :laugh:


    eta: It occurs to me that I may have completely misunderstood what you meant here...
  • scottdeeby
    scottdeeby Posts: 95 Member
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    You can't do either of these on a calorie deficit...how can you when you're adding 5lbs every workout? You'd last 3 weeks at best before being pinned.

    Of course you can. I've done SS and 5/3/1 while in calorie deficit and made tremendous strength gains.
    How long did you maintain the linear progression?

    Of course you can make gains on a calorie deficit. But SS is too demanding.
  • slacker80
    slacker80 Posts: 235 Member
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    Check this out! "They" Always argue that heavy is short 3-5 rep for stregnth while 75% stregnth 10-12 high rep is for mass with a bit of stregnth. So you can either go heavy with high weight or you can go High rep with lower weight, but you can't have both........Oh yes you can, that's right you can go heavy and high rep! It's a new training program I just completed 1 week on and it is just destroying me.

    The following technique is called the "Heavy High-Rep Rest/Pause Technique"

    The goal is to hit a total of 15 reps with a weight that is set to your 8 rep max!

    Began by setting your weight to your 8 rep max. Once you reach failure, rack your weight and take a BRIEF 10-15 Sec. rest/pause. Immediately continue on the rep you left off at 9, 10, 11. failure! rest/pause again! than 12, 13 Failure, rest/pause 14, 15 Complete!!! Thats one set down! Now you take an actual 90 sec rest. but no more than 3 minutes!!

    The sets are super tuff! very important that the pauses are kept rediculously short 10-15 sec. torwards the end of a set you're likely to even be going one at a time until you hit your 15.

    This technique was illustrated by Michael Berg, NSCA-CPT in the October 2012 issue of Muscle & Performance. The Article focused the technique on Tricep mass building. but is a great technique that works for about anything. Changes things up! that's for sure.
  • scottdeeby
    scottdeeby Posts: 95 Member
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    Check this out! "They" Always argue that heavy is short 3-5 rep for stregnth while 75% stregnth 10-12 high rep is for mass with a bit of stregnth. So you can either go heavy with high weight or you can go High rep with lower weight, but you can't have both........Oh yes you can, that's right you can go heavy and high rep! It's a new training program I just completed 1 week on and it is just destroying me.

    The following technique is called the "Heavy High-Rep Rest/Pause Technique"

    The goal is to hit a total of 15 reps with a weight that is set to your 8 rep max!

    Began by setting your weight to your 8 rep max. Once you reach failure, rack your weight and take a BRIEF 10-15 Sec. rest/pause. Immediately continue on the rep you left off at 9, 10, 11. failure! rest/pause again! than 12, 13 Failure, rest/pause 14, 15 Complete!!! Thats one set down! Now you take an actual 90 sec rest. but no more than 3 minutes!!

    The sets are super tuff! very important that the pauses are kept rediculously short 10-15 sec. torwards the end of a set you're likely to even be going one at a time until you hit your 15.

    This technique was illustrated by Michael Berg, NSCA-CPT in the October 2012 issue of Muscle & Performance. The Article focused the technique on Tricep mass building. but is a great technique that works for about anything. Changes things up! that's for sure.

    Google "breathing squats" and you'll see this is not a new idea.
  • wellbert
    wellbert Posts: 3,924 Member
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    REad starting strength.
    do stronglifts until you can't get 5x5 in.
    Then switch to 3x5


    Personally, i like GSLP.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
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    Check this out! "They" Always argue that heavy is short 3-5 rep for stregnth while 75% stregnth 10-12 high rep is for mass with a bit of stregnth. So you can either go heavy with high weight or you can go High rep with lower weight, but you can't have both........Oh yes you can, that's right you can go heavy and high rep! It's a new training program I just completed 1 week on and it is just destroying me.

    The following technique is called the "Heavy High-Rep Rest/Pause Technique"

    The goal is to hit a total of 15 reps with a weight that is set to your 8 rep max!

    Began by setting your weight to your 8 rep max. Once you reach failure, rack your weight and take a BRIEF 10-15 Sec. rest/pause. Immediately continue on the rep you left off at 9, 10, 11. failure! rest/pause again! than 12, 13 Failure, rest/pause 14, 15 Complete!!! Thats one set down! Now you take an actual 90 sec rest. but no more than 3 minutes!!

    The sets are super tuff! very important that the pauses are kept rediculously short 10-15 sec. torwards the end of a set you're likely to even be going one at a time until you hit your 15.

    This technique was illustrated by Michael Berg, NSCA-CPT in the October 2012 issue of Muscle & Performance. The Article focused the technique on Tricep mass building. but is a great technique that works for about anything. Changes things up! that's for sure.

    I'm not even sure what my 8 rep max is at this point lol.. remember..beginner..
    REad starting strength.
    do stronglifts until you can't get 5x5 in.
    Then switch to 3x5


    Personally, i like GSLP.

    GSLP? I don't know what that is..
  • MiniMichelle
    MiniMichelle Posts: 807 Member
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    bump
  • slacker80
    slacker80 Posts: 235 Member
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    Check this out! "They" Always argue that heavy is short 3-5 rep for stregnth while 75% stregnth 10-12 high rep is for mass with a bit of stregnth. So you can either go heavy with high weight or you can go High rep with lower weight, but you can't have both........Oh yes you can, that's right you can go heavy and high rep! It's a new training program I just completed 1 week on and it is just destroying me.

    The following technique is called the "Heavy High-Rep Rest/Pause Technique"

    The goal is to hit a total of 15 reps with a weight that is set to your 8 rep max!

    Began by setting your weight to your 8 rep max. Once you reach failure, rack your weight and take a BRIEF 10-15 Sec. rest/pause. Immediately continue on the rep you left off at 9, 10, 11. failure! rest/pause again! than 12, 13 Failure, rest/pause 14, 15 Complete!!! Thats one set down! Now you take an actual 90 sec rest. but no more than 3 minutes!!

    The sets are super tuff! very important that the pauses are kept rediculously short 10-15 sec. torwards the end of a set you're likely to even be going one at a time until you hit your 15.

    This technique was illustrated by Michael Berg, NSCA-CPT in the October 2012 issue of Muscle & Performance. The Article focused the technique on Tricep mass building. but is a great technique that works for about anything. Changes things up! that's for sure.

    Google "breathing squats" and you'll see this is not a new idea.

    Your interest is appreciated. you're right we didn't just re-invent the wheel. My mistake was in the way I phrased my message. what I meant was that it was a new program for me. NOT that it was a new program in general.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,867 Member
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    You can't do either of these on a calorie deficit...how can you when you're adding 5lbs every workout? You'd last 3 weeks at best before being pinned.

    Hmmmm....I must be totally awesome then...I've been going strong now for 9 weeks with good linear gains.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
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    You can't do either of these on a calorie deficit...how can you when you're adding 5lbs every workout? You'd last 3 weeks at best before being pinned.

    Hmmmm....I must be totally awesome then...I've been going strong now for 9 weeks with good linear gains.

    I do plan on maintaining my deficit (I eat about 1600cals/day) and adding calories as needed for addition energy based on expenditure.. I still have about 10 lbs or so to lose ideally but dropping BF is more of the concern

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