Strong Lifts vs. Starting Strength

Jonesie1984
Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I'm looking into starting either of the programs in the next 4 weeks and I know that they are essentially the same. I have heard that strong lifts is a little more user friendly that ss. If you have done either of the programs feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance :smile:
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Replies

  • lacurandera1
    lacurandera1 Posts: 8,083 Member
    bump
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
    i guess only the snarky threads get feedback?
  • Shock_Wave
    Shock_Wave Posts: 1,573 Member
    i guess only the snarky threads get feedback?

    Be patient.. :flowerforyou: You will get some great feedback soon. Its day time so people are at work.
  • ilovedeadlifts
    ilovedeadlifts Posts: 2,923 Member
    I'd prefer stronglifts If I had to start over from the beginning.

    starting strength involves cleans and they're a fairly difficult movement to do correctly, and I think they can easily be replaced with rows and deadlifts for most people.


    I haven't done stronglifts but I ran madcow's 5x5 which is pretty close
  • LeenaRuns
    LeenaRuns Posts: 1,309 Member
    I'm doing stronglifts right now. Love it. Haven't tried starting strength, so I can't compare.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
    i guess only the snarky threads get feedback?

    Be patient.. :flowerforyou: You will get some great feedback soon. It day time so people are at work.

    haha thanks. I'm at work and of course don't wanna do that.:smile:

    Stronglifts: 2, SS: 0 thanks
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    They're both perfectly viable programs. I'm biased towards Starting Strength largely because I believe that cleans are an essential aspect of strength training and I don't believe there is a true sub for them. I do barbell rows as well, but it's part of my assistance work.

    Really, it's a matter of preference...they're both pretty awesome and a great way to get into strength training if you're a beginner. They are both very, very similar and follow the same core principles of strength training...low rep, high weight, full body compound lifts.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,294 Member
    From what I have seen Starting Strength is suggested if you are in a caloric deficit, maintenance, or even surplus) as you do 3 working sets of 5 reps whereas stronglifts you do 5 sets of 5, which is good if you are in maintenance or a surplus) as it takes more energy and effort to complete and recover from the extra work.

    OP you can swap out the cleans for another exercise. You can follow the progression and sets/reps from Starting strength using the exercises from stronglifts (most of which are the same anyway)
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
    I'd prefer stronglifts If I had to start over from the beginning.

    starting strength involves cleans and they're a fairly difficult movement to do correctly, and I think they can easily be replaced with rows and deadlifts for most people.


    I haven't done stronglifts but I ran madcow's 5x5 which is pretty close



    SS has deadlifts, too. Actually, SS has many different versions, but all are based on squat, deadlift, bench, and overhead - no cleans in some versions. This link - http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program - has a spreadsheet where you can look at each version.

    That said, I had to reset with SS. Instead of a simple reset, I'm going to reset with SL - not all the way to the beginning, just from where I last was with SS - because the extra volume from SL will probably do me good.
  • juliemouse83
    juliemouse83 Posts: 6,663 Member
    Hi...sorry,...I'm at work... //looking both ways, ha ha//

    I am doing strong lifts and I am loving every bit of it. Complete in its simplicity. I can remember what to do when, which is kinda major for me. :)

    Either way you go, I'm betting you're gonna feel terrific!
  • NikoM5
    NikoM5 Posts: 488 Member
    Six of one...

    Both are good. Just pick the one that appeals to you more.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
    i have done some cleans and barbell rows I'm of course concerned about form and need a better grasp of the technical aspects. I like doing cleans (if i'm doing them correctly). So the difference between the two is a few more power moves in SS?
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    I prefer the Stronglifts exercise selection but the 3x5 format of SS over the 5x5 format. 5x5 is too much volume for a beginner. And these are, at their core, SUPPOSED to be beginner oriented programs. I believe that cleans are too technically difficult for a beginner without a personal strength coach/trainer to really master the technique for and that subbing barbell rows in place for them makes for a more "complete" full body strength workout.

    That being said, if you are a beginner, and you do have a personal coach or someone else who can teach you step by step how to practice and perfect the technique for the clean, then by all means, go SS all the way. After all I would supplement both with pushups and pullups anyway because PERSONALLY I believe no training program is complete without basic bodywork exercises. You can't ignore the benefit of pushups and pullups. And if you're supplementing in pullups, the lats are getting worked hard enough through that to not necessitate the rows in place of cleans.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    i have done some cleans and barbell rows I'm of course concerned about form and need a better grasp of the technical aspects. I like doing cleans (if i'm doing them correctly). So the difference between the two is a few more power moves in SS?

    SS has you doing sets of 3x5 vs. sets of 5x5 in SL. SS has you doing Power Cleans instead of Barbell Rows. That is the only real difference.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
    I'd prefer stronglifts If I had to start over from the beginning.

    starting strength involves cleans and they're a fairly difficult movement to do correctly, and I think they can easily be replaced with rows and deadlifts for most people.


    I haven't done stronglifts but I ran madcow's 5x5 which is pretty close

    Thank you for the link I'll check it out :smile:

    SS has deadlifts, too. Actually, SS has many different versions, but all are based on squat, deadlift, bench, and overhead - no cleans in some versions. This link - http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program - has a spreadsheet where you can look at each version.

    That said, I had to reset with SS. Instead of a simple reset, I'm going to reset with SL - not all the way to the beginning, just from where I last was with SS - because the extra volume from SL will probably do me good.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
    I prefer the Stronglifts exercise selection but the 3x5 format of SS over the 5x5 format. 5x5 is too much volume for a beginner. And these are, at their core, SUPPOSED to be beginner oriented programs. I believe that cleans are too technically difficult for a beginner without a personal strength coach/trainer to really master the technique for and that subbing barbell rows in place for them makes for a more "complete" full body strength workout.

    That being said, if you are a beginner, and you do have a personal coach or someone else who can teach you step by step how to practice and perfect the technique for the clean, then by all means, go SS all the way.

    I don't. And for me form is crucial. I had a knee injury last year over bad form squatting I'm kinda nutso over it being perfect now.

    SS has you doing sets of 3x5 vs. sets of 5x5 in SL. SS has you doing Power Cleans instead of Barbell Rows. That is the only real difference.

    oh ok.. I'm leaning more towards SL rather than SS just because I don't have someone to check my form. Thanks a ton :flowerforyou:
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
    Here is my summary...

    They are more or less the same.

    "Mostly", people who go with Starting Strength read the book, get an excellent foundation of knowledge, and end up being very strong.

    "Mostly", people who go with StrongLifts do so because they don't feel like reading a book, and end up getting stuck at some point.

    As far as programming, they are virtually identical. StrongLifts is 5x5; Starting Strength is 3x5. StrongLifts has the Barbell Row whereas SS has the Power Clean. It is very common to substitute the Row for the Power Clean, and many people do that because the Power Clean is very hard to get right without coaching.

    The 5x5 protocol should only be done for a few weeks in my opinion. It's for the completely untrained newbie only. Afterwards, it's too much volume and will interfere with progression. 3x5 is better. I am pretty sure this is written into the StrongLifts plan, but most people don't read the whole thing so they end up doing 5x5 for months.

    Bottom line - whatever you do, if you're serious about these compound lifts, you should read the book Starting Strength. At the end of the day, there is really no difference between SS with Rows and SL. But having read Starting Strength, you will be armed with more understanding and will make better progress.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    Here is my summary...

    They are more or less the same.

    "Mostly", people who go with Starting Strength read the book, get an excellent foundation of knowledge, and end up being very strong.

    "Mostly", people who go with StrongLifts do so because they don't feel like reading a book, and end up getting stuck at some point.

    As far as programming, they are virtually identical. StrongLifts is 5x5; Starting Strength is 3x5. StrongLifts has the Barbell Row whereas SS has the Power Clean. It is very common to substitute the Row for the Power Clean, and many people do that because the Power Clean is very hard to get right without coaching.

    The 5x5 protocol should only be done for a few weeks in my opinion. It's for the completely untrained newbie only. Afterwards, it's too much volume and will interfere with progression. 3x5 is better. I am pretty sure this is written into the StrongLifts plan, but most people don't read the whole thing so they end up doing 5x5 for months.

    Bottom line - whatever you do, if you're serious about these compound lifts, you should read the book Starting Strength. At the end of the day, there is really no difference between SS with Rows and SL. But having read Starting Strength, you will be armed with more understanding and will make better progress.

    Agreed. The information about the technical aspects of the training regimens contained in that book will make or break you for the long run.
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member

    The 5x5 protocol should only be done for a few weeks in my opinion. It's for the completely untrained newbie only. Afterwards, it's too much volume and will interfere with progression. 3x5 is better. I am pretty sure this is written into the StrongLifts plan, but most people don't read the whole thing so they end up doing 5x5 for months.


    The SL plan has you doing 5x5 full-time until you have to reset on a lift for the 3rd time. Then you switch to 3x5. Then 1x5. Of course, by that time, you're probably lifting enough to where 5/3/1 would be better. But that's a ways down the road.
  • scottdeeby
    scottdeeby Posts: 95 Member
    You can't do either of these on a calorie deficit...how can you when you're adding 5lbs every workout? You'd last 3 weeks at best before being pinned.

    I like SS, and when I was done with it I did a 5x5 program, but a Medium-Light-Heavy weekly cycle. I never did SL though.

    One thing I dislike about SS is the "reset" terminology. It's simply cycling your lifting routine. He over complicates it.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
    Here is my summary...

    They are more or less the same.

    "Mostly", people who go with Starting Strength read the book, get an excellent foundation of knowledge, and end up being very strong.

    "Mostly", people who go with StrongLifts do so because they don't feel like reading a book, and end up getting stuck at some point.

    As far as programming, they are virtually identical. StrongLifts is 5x5; Starting Strength is 3x5. StrongLifts has the Barbell Row whereas SS has the Power Clean. It is very common to substitute the Row for the Power Clean, and many people do that because the Power Clean is very hard to get right without coaching.

    The 5x5 protocol should only be done for a few weeks in my opinion. It's for the completely untrained newbie only. Afterwards, it's too much volume and will interfere with progression. 3x5 is better. I am pretty sure this is written into the StrongLifts plan, but most people don't read the whole thing so they end up doing 5x5 for months.

    Bottom line - whatever you do, if you're serious about these compound lifts, you should read the book Starting Strength. At the end of the day, there is really no difference between SS with Rows and SL. But having read Starting Strength, you will be armed with more understanding and will make better progress.

    Thanks Taso I'd rather know the education behind it. I wasn't aware that SL wasn't an actual book to read. That's why I posted to earloy to be able to read up in advance. You're the best. Another reason you're my Valentine haha :love:
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member

    The 5x5 protocol should only be done for a few weeks in my opinion. It's for the completely untrained newbie only. Afterwards, it's too much volume and will interfere with progression. 3x5 is better. I am pretty sure this is written into the StrongLifts plan, but most people don't read the whole thing so they end up doing 5x5 for months.


    The SL plan has you doing 5x5 full-time until you have to reset on a lift for the 3rd time. Then you switch to 3x5. Then 1x5. Of course, by that time, you're probably lifting enough to where 5/3/1 would be better. But that's a ways down the road.

    Maybe this is my imagination, but I don't think anybody really reads past the descriptions of "Workout A" and "Workout B"... It seems to always come as a surprise to the person when I tell them to switch to 3x5....
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
    You can't do either of these on a calorie deficit...how can you when you're adding 5lbs every workout? You'd last 3 weeks at best before being pinned.

    Of course you can. I've done SS and 5/3/1 while in calorie deficit and made tremendous strength gains.
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
    nm got taso's answer I was about to be very discouraged.
  • scottdeeby
    scottdeeby Posts: 95 Member
    I don't really think bent over rows is a good sub for power cleans. I think doing fast deads are a better sub for power cleans. It's the speed that matters, IMO.
  • taso42
    taso42 Posts: 8,980 Member
    Thanks Taso I'd rather know the education behind it. I wasn't aware that SL wasn't an actual book to read. That's why I posted to earloy to be able to read up in advance. You're the best. Another reason you're my Valentine haha :love:

    It is a book actually. It's an ebook. But it's still not as rich and detailed as SS. SS has like 60 pages on The Squat alone... I guess you really need to be a bit of a geek to get into it :)
  • trogalicious
    trogalicious Posts: 4,584 Member
    Just finished Stronglifts. It was an easy program to follow.
  • billsica
    billsica Posts: 4,741 Member
    I'm doing strong lifts 3x5. I read starting strength book mostly and didn't feel comfortable with it. I watched the youtube videos for strong lifts A and B day. I'll do those till I get stuck. I don't have a trainer, or anyone looking at my form. So its just me, and at least I think I look like I know what I'm doing.
    I can tell right now that there will have to be modification at some point to this.
  • tigerlion2013
    tigerlion2013 Posts: 16 Member
    I can't speak from personal experience. I was, however, researching this topic myself for a friend. This link has a useful comparison:

    http://spotmebro.com/starting-strength-vs-stronglifts-5x5/
  • Jonesie1984
    Jonesie1984 Posts: 612 Member
    Thanks Taso I'd rather know the education behind it. I wasn't aware that SL wasn't an actual book to read. That's why I posted to earloy to be able to read up in advance. You're the best. Another reason you're my Valentine haha :love:

    It is a book actually. It's an ebook. But it's still not as rich and detailed as SS. SS has like 60 pages on The Squat alone... I guess you really need to be a bit of a geek to get into it :)

    Kinda am.. learned from the best haha

    I can't speak from personal experience. I was, however, researching this topic myself for a friend. This link has a useful comparison:

    http://spotmebro.com/starting-strength-vs-stronglifts-5x5/

    Thanks I'll check it out later =)

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