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Best way of reducing BF without reducing muscle mass
darrensurrey
Posts: 3,942 Member
Just interested to know what others do out there.
Currently I lift twice a week plus do calisthenics (think Barstarzz) once a week. I am eating average 2500 cals a day with protein 100-130g a day. I do very little proper CV work at the mo (30 minutes on a Saturday).
I want to see if I can reduce my BF below 10%. I guestimate it's around 12% now.
So, I have two options:
1) reduce calories - which means I could end up reducing my protein intake because I eat my protein and have no plans to start buying powder
2) do CV work - which I understand can reduce LBM if overdone (what is overdoing it?); also what is the best form of CV to avoid LBM loss - weighted? HIIT? very gentle and minimal eg 30 mins gentle cycling a day?
I am currently thinking of experimenting with (2) and 30 mins gentle cycling a day which is good for an approx 200 calories burn.
So based on your experience, what have you found works best for not losing muscle mass?
Thanks!
Currently I lift twice a week plus do calisthenics (think Barstarzz) once a week. I am eating average 2500 cals a day with protein 100-130g a day. I do very little proper CV work at the mo (30 minutes on a Saturday).
I want to see if I can reduce my BF below 10%. I guestimate it's around 12% now.
So, I have two options:
1) reduce calories - which means I could end up reducing my protein intake because I eat my protein and have no plans to start buying powder
2) do CV work - which I understand can reduce LBM if overdone (what is overdoing it?); also what is the best form of CV to avoid LBM loss - weighted? HIIT? very gentle and minimal eg 30 mins gentle cycling a day?
I am currently thinking of experimenting with (2) and 30 mins gentle cycling a day which is good for an approx 200 calories burn.
So based on your experience, what have you found works best for not losing muscle mass?
Thanks!
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Replies
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I would say slowly decrease you TDEE to -20%, cut out the cardio (light cardio is cool) and up the resistance training.
Is strength training an option or do you not have access to a gym?0 -
lift heavy things repeatedly.0
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Start lifting heavy three times a week, up the protein, cut the cardio down to light.
Dont know if you have a lifting program yet but strong lifts and starting strength are good.0 -
"Currently I lift twice a week"
0 -
"Currently I lift twice a week"
Missed that. Apologies.
Boost it to 3
Cut out the calisthenics
Light Cardio
Reduce your calories SLOWLY over a period of time.
Get adequate protein.0 -
Have you looked at the 'lean gains' site?
http://rippedbody.jp/ also has a lot of resources for this kind of intermittent fasting.
I can get 180g of protein from 1450 calories, so shouldn't be a problem for you; presuming you eat meat.
360 calories of chicken breast - 80g protein
408 calories of ham - 75g protein
163 calories of 'nu me' bacon - 33g protein
931 calories in total for 188g of protein, so not leaving a massive amount for the rest, but still doable.
For instance I might have that bacon with one slice of smaller bread - 50 calories and a little low cal ketchup - 10cals.
So definitely don't see it being a problem for you if you're coming down from 2500.
What weights are you doing?
At the moment I'm eating a bit 'badly', but my weight is at least not going up despite this.
My strength IS going up.
My current routine is something like:
Monday - Weights + Rock Climbing
Tuesday - Running (15k or so)
Wednesday - Weights
Thursday - Running (hill reps or similar)
Friday -Weights + Rock Climbing
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - Running (a bit more gentle - 10k or so)
Of course, it depends on what is happening etc - ie I did some outdoor climbing after running last Sunday and next Sunday I've got the local 10k race, so hopefully going to be a bit less gentle!0 -
"Currently I lift twice a week"
Missed that. Apologies.
Boost it to 3
Cut out the calisthenics
Light Cardio
Reduce your calories SLOWLY over a period of time.
Get adequate protein.
The cali is heavy lifting. By cali I don't just mean push ups. I mean planche training, weighted pull ups, front levers.
How much light cardio?
And why reduce calories slowly as opposed to just cutting them down say 20% for the duration of the cutting phase? Does the slowly bit help avoid metabolic change?0 -
"Currently I lift twice a week"
Missed that. Apologies.
Boost it to 3
Cut out the calisthenics
Light Cardio
Reduce your calories SLOWLY over a period of time.
Get adequate protein.
^Correct0 -
Have you looked at the 'lean gains' site?
http://rippedbody.jp/ also has a lot of resources for this kind of intermittent fasting.
I can get 180g of protein from 1450 calories, so shouldn't be a problem for you; presuming you eat meat.
360 calories of chicken breast - 80g protein
408 calories of ham - 75g protein
163 calories of 'nu me' bacon - 33g protein
931 calories in total for 188g of protein, so not leaving a massive amount for the rest, but still doable.
For instance I might have that bacon with one slice of smaller bread - 50 calories and a little low cal ketchup - 10cals.
So definitely don't see it being a problem for you if you're coming down from 2500.
What weights are you doing?
At the moment I'm eating a bit 'badly', but my weight is at least not going up despite this.
My strength IS going up.
My current routine is something like:
Monday - Weights + Rock Climbing
Tuesday - Running (15k or so)
Wednesday - Weights
Thursday - Running (hill reps or similar)
Friday -Weights + Rock Climbing
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - Running (a bit more gentle - 10k or so)
Of course, it depends on what is happening etc - ie I did some outdoor climbing after running last Sunday and next Sunday I've got the local 10k race, so hopefully going to be a bit less gentle!
Interesting how much protein you can eat. I will have to look more into what I can eat. I don't mind shoveling in chicken breast. I might buy more of it and have loads of chicken breast salads to keep the cals down but the protein up.
Interesting that you run so much and it isn't affecting your strength. What about muscle size?0 -
Plenty of responses on the strength and diet side so here's my two pennyworth regarding cardio for reducing BF without stripping out muscle.....
Low intensity (60-65% of max heartrate) cycling is good but the downsides are you need to do long sessions (hour is minimum) and it can be very dull. Have a read of this - http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/heart-rate-monitor-training-for-cyclists-28838/
PM me if you want some local routes.0 -
Plenty of responses on the strength and diet side so here's my two pennyworth regarding cardio for reducing BF without stripping out muscle.....
Low intensity (60-65% of max heartrate) cycling is good but the downsides are you need to do long sessions (hour is minimum) and it can be very dull. Have a read of this - http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/heart-rate-monitor-training-for-cyclists-28838/
PM me if you want some local routes.
Thanks for the link. I'll use a gym bike so it won't be boring.0 -
Could anyone tell me if running about 8-10K would do any damage to me trying to gain a little muscle mass / lowering my body fat%? Would I be breaking down muscle tissue doing this? My heartrate is about 175-182 while running.
I just started CrossFit which I plan on doing 3x a week. Next to that I would like to run 8-10K once or twice a week. I don't need to lose more weight, but want to lower my bodyfat % which was 26,5% last time it was measured.
I try to get in 140 grams of protein on workout days. Is this sufficient? I'm I doing it right?0 -
I'm going for strength over muscle size (so doing weights around the 5 rep range), however, my biceps are certainly noticeably bigger, despite not doing any kind of curl (the big three + pulls up, but I've yesterday picked up an Olympic bar which I told myself I'd go back to doing power cleans and shoulder press thrown in.)Interesting that you run so much and it isn't affecting your strength. What about muscle size?
As you can see, I do try and separate the cardio and the weights decently. It'll usually be about 30 hours after doing weights.
It's hard to say how much cardio is affecting my weights - maybe I'd be doing better if I wasn't mixing it up, but I do want improve my aerobic ability.
I've only started the running three weeks or so ago - I had actually hit a bit of bench press and pull up plateau just before starting running, but now pushing through it I THINK.
If I was going purely for weight loss, I think I'd mostly leave the cardio out and look to reduce my calories.
ZealousMissJJ:
It could cause problems for muscle building. There's a lot of different information out there.
Generally sounds like you're on the right track.
It might be worth just 'trying it and seeing' - different people work differently and when you're at the beginning of a strength training journey, the consensus is that it's easier to get results without doing everything perfectly compared to someone that's already big/strong.0 -
bump 0
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I'm going for strength over muscle size (so doing weights around the 5 rep range), however, my biceps are certainly noticeably bigger, despite not doing any kind of curl (the big three + pulls up, but I've yesterday picked up an Olympic bar which I told myself I'd go back to doing power cleans and shoulder press thrown in.)
As you can see, I do try and separate the cardio and the weights decently. It'll usually be about 30 hours after doing weights.
It's hard to say how much cardio is affecting my weights - maybe I'd be doing better if I wasn't mixing it up, but I do want improve my aerobic ability.
I've only started the running three weeks or so ago - I had actually hit a bit of bench press and pull up plateau just before starting running, but now pushing through it I THINK.
If I was going purely for weight loss, I think I'd mostly leave the cardio out and look to reduce my calories.
There'll definitely be a gap between CV and lifting in my training schedule if only from a time/life perspective. I guess it is about experimenting. Hmph. :-D0 -
ZealousMissJJ:
It could cause problems for muscle building. There's a lot of different information out there.
Generally sounds like you're on the right track.
It might be worth just 'trying it and seeing' - different people work differently and when you're at the beginning of a strength training journey, the consensus is that it's easier to get results without doing everything perfectly compared to someone that's already big/strong.
Thank you! I guess I'll just have learn by trial and error.0 -
Check out www.bodyrecomposition.com and do some searches. When you get to levels of BF that you are describing, mobiliizing fat is more of a challenge than actually oxidizing the fat. It becomes more difficult to achieve via just a calorie deficit alone.0
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Good article on cardio and muscle gains below....(lots of good stuff on Scooby's site)
http://scoobysworkshop.com/does-cardio-burn-muscle/
I think the main issue with cardio is that it can make it difficult to meet caloric goals - not that it will strip your muscles. When trying to gain weight I limited my runs to 4 miles 2x week. Now that I'm trying to cut I've increased to 5-7 miles 2x week. Both profiles include heavy lifting 3x week.
Good luck!0 -
Interesting. Thanks for the links.0
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bump for reading later0
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<BUMP 4LR>0
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"Currently I lift twice a week"
Missed that. Apologies.
Boost it to 3
Cut out the calisthenics
Light Cardio
Reduce your calories SLOWLY over a period of time.
Get adequate protein.
The cali is heavy lifting. By cali I don't just mean push ups. I mean planche training, weighted pull ups, front levers.
How much light cardio?
And why reduce calories slowly as opposed to just cutting them down say 20% for the duration of the cutting phase? Does the slowly bit help avoid metabolic change?
If the calisthenics are heavy lifting then that's fine. I would just try and avoid the endurance type of wrokouts where you're doing circuit training, 25 pushups etc.etc.
As for cardio the reason I say light cardio is because it spikes cortisol levels. Elevated levels of cortisol can suppress lipolytic (fat burning) activity and, if prolonged actually break down muscle tissue. This is also the reason why you want to slowly lower your deficit as it too can cause a spike in cortisol levels.
Hope this helps.0 -
If the calisthenics are heavy lifting then that's fine. I would just try and avoid the endurance type of wrokouts where you're doing circuit training, 25 pushups etc.etc.
As for cardio the reason I say light cardio is because it spikes cortisol levels. Elevated levels of cortisol can suppress lipolytic (fat burning) activity and, if prolonged actually break down muscle tissue. This is also the reason why you want to slowly lower your deficit as it too can cause a spike in cortisol levels.
Ah ha! That's what I was thinking re cortisol but wondered if I might be overthinking it! Thanks for confirming my thoughts. It's why I put forward the idea of "very gentle cardio" vs HIIT.
I wonder, slightly going off-topic, if walking is actually better than running?0 -
If the calisthenics are heavy lifting then that's fine. I would just try and avoid the endurance type of wrokouts where you're doing circuit training, 25 pushups etc.etc.
As for cardio the reason I say light cardio is because it spikes cortisol levels. Elevated levels of cortisol can suppress lipolytic (fat burning) activity and, if prolonged actually break down muscle tissue. This is also the reason why you want to slowly lower your deficit as it too can cause a spike in cortisol levels.
Ah ha! That's what I was thinking re cortisol but wondered if I might be overthinking it! Thanks for confirming my thoughts. It's why I put forward the idea of "very gentle cardio" vs HIIT.
I wonder, slightly going off-topic, if walking is actually better than running?
In terms of cortisol yes.0 -
Lift heavy, increase your protein..
Personally I do HIIT for my cardio and that's it.. but I have higher BF%0 -
If the calisthenics are heavy lifting then that's fine. I would just try and avoid the endurance type of wrokouts where you're doing circuit training, 25 pushups etc.etc.
As for cardio the reason I say light cardio is because it spikes cortisol levels. Elevated levels of cortisol can suppress lipolytic (fat burning) activity and, if prolonged actually break down muscle tissue. This is also the reason why you want to slowly lower your deficit as it too can cause a spike in cortisol levels.
Ah ha! That's what I was thinking re cortisol but wondered if I might be overthinking it! Thanks for confirming my thoughts. It's why I put forward the idea of "very gentle cardio" vs HIIT.
I wonder, slightly going off-topic, if walking is actually better than running?
In terms of cortisol yes.
Yeah, that's what I meant.0
This discussion has been closed.
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