Isn't "deprivation" just a mindset?
angiechimpanzee
Posts: 536 Member
What confuses me most about weight loss & lifestyle changes is when people say "don't cut out any foods! don't deprive yourself!"
Is choosing to no longer eat the same empty calorie, sugary, fatty, salty foods that made you overweight in the first place really depriving yourself? By choosing to skip the donuts at work, what are you missing out on, really?
I don't believe anyone has to have a certain junk food in order to be "happy" or to live a full life. Even if it tastes good in that moment, that bag of chips ahoy cookies isn't giving you true happiness. I think the belief that everyone needs to routinely subject themselves to instant gratification in order to "stay sane" on a healthy lifestyle journey is a myth. Think about it. Humans have existed for thousands of years without cookies or crisps. Also, foods like that tend to have an addictive effect on some people, & it isn't uncommon to hear of someone eating 2000 calories worth of such foods in one sitting. Why then, is a person being "unrealistic" or "depriving themselves" by choosing to simply not to eat such things anymore?
I think the deprivation thing is all in people's minds. You only think its necessary because by repeatedly eating it, you've programmed your brain to thinking it's necessary (something I'm positive you can unprogram your brain out of). It shouldn't be so much, "I CAN'T have this food." Rather, it should be "Why would I even need this food? Why is it really necessary?"
Just a thought.
Is choosing to no longer eat the same empty calorie, sugary, fatty, salty foods that made you overweight in the first place really depriving yourself? By choosing to skip the donuts at work, what are you missing out on, really?
I don't believe anyone has to have a certain junk food in order to be "happy" or to live a full life. Even if it tastes good in that moment, that bag of chips ahoy cookies isn't giving you true happiness. I think the belief that everyone needs to routinely subject themselves to instant gratification in order to "stay sane" on a healthy lifestyle journey is a myth. Think about it. Humans have existed for thousands of years without cookies or crisps. Also, foods like that tend to have an addictive effect on some people, & it isn't uncommon to hear of someone eating 2000 calories worth of such foods in one sitting. Why then, is a person being "unrealistic" or "depriving themselves" by choosing to simply not to eat such things anymore?
I think the deprivation thing is all in people's minds. You only think its necessary because by repeatedly eating it, you've programmed your brain to thinking it's necessary (something I'm positive you can unprogram your brain out of). It shouldn't be so much, "I CAN'T have this food." Rather, it should be "Why would I even need this food? Why is it really necessary?"
Just a thought.
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Replies
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I completely agree with you.
A lot of the foods that you are talking about are supernormal stimuli. Not only did we survive for thousands of years without cookies or crisps, we also survived for that long without the exaggerated response that those foods elicit. We have come to feel it is normal to have such a strong reaction to food and eating, where you feel like a tortured prisoner when you don't eat cake, but it isn't.
If you want a normal, moderate, evolved relationship with food, you have to cut all the supernormal stimuli from your diet and eat the stuff we ate back then.0 -
I don't think you have to cut everything out but you can if you want to. I just work little treats into my goals. I actually ate a chips ahoy cookie yesterday. The difference is that I only ate one cookie instead of the whole bag. If you want to completely cut it out, that's fine. I just like to have a small indulgence once in a while.0
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Eating a donut doesn't make you overweight. Eating several donuts every day, along with everything else, will probably do it though. It's not the fault of the foods, it's how we choose to consume them. I still like my treats, but in moderation
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The food actually has a LOT to do with it. In studies done with lab rats, when presented with high fat, high sugar foods, the rats started to eat in excess, way past the amount they'd usually eat with their typical diet, and became obese. You see the same thing with people. Finishing off a box of donuts or cookies isn't unheard of. Eating a whole stalk of vegetable is. Healthy food simply doesn't induce that "crave" feeling, ever.Eating a donut doesn't make you overweight. Eating several donuts every day, along with everything else, will probably do it though. It's not the fault of the foods, it's how we choose to consume them. I still like my treats, but in moderation
You can't say "oh that person is fat because they ate too much." WHAT were they eating that gave them the compulsive need to eat so much of it? I know no one on these boards can truthfully say they've never wanted more than one serving of a crisp/donut/frenchfry/cookie. & yeah some people can train themselves to only have one. But that takes willpower to do. And eating food that's good for you and that doesn't hyper-stimulate your taste buds/pleasure centers in your brain in reasonable amounts doesn't take willpower. It just happens naturally.0 -
This is exactly what I was getting at. I don't think "cravings" are normal at all.I completely agree with you.
A lot of the foods that you are talking about are supernormal stimuli. Not only did we survive for thousands of years without cookies or crisps, we also survived for that long without the exaggerated response that those foods elicit. We have come to feel it is normal to have such a strong reaction to food and eating, where you feel like a tortured prisoner when you don't eat cake, but it isn't.
If you want a normal, moderate, evolved relationship with food, you have to cut all the supernormal stimuli from your diet and eat the stuff we ate back then.0 -
The food actually has a LOT to do with it. In studies done with lab rats, when presented with high fat, high sugar foods, the rats started to eat in excess, way past the amount they'd usually eat with their typical diet, and became obese. You see the same thing with people. Finishing off a box of donuts or cookies isn't unheard of. Eating a whole stalk of vegetable is. Healthy food simply doesn't induce that "crave" feeling, ever.Eating a donut doesn't make you overweight. Eating several donuts every day, along with everything else, will probably do it though. It's not the fault of the foods, it's how we choose to consume them. I still like my treats, but in moderation
You can't say "oh that person is fat because they ate too much." WHAT were they eating that gave them the compulsive need to eat so much of it? I know no one on these boards can truthfully say they've never wanted more than one serving of a crisp/donut/frenchfry/cookie. & yeah some people can train themselves to only have one. But that takes willpower to do. And eating food that's good for you and that doesn't hyper-stimulate your taste buds/pleasure centers in your brain in reasonable amounts doesn't take willpower. It just happens naturally.
1. people are not rats. animal studies have limited benefits when studying humans. Human studies are better, and studies where human's food intake was regulated so that they were eating less than they burned off, in every case the humans lost weight. No exceptions.
2. I can eat half a donut without feeling the need to eat all of it. I have a healthy relationship with food because I allow myself to eat whatever I want in moderation. Once I got the idea into my head that I could have whatever unhealthy foods I wanted, when I wanted, I just don't have to have them *right now*, I've never felt the need to eat more than a small serving of any of them. Also, ensuring I'm getting enough of every nutrient my body needs has gone a long way to eliminating the desire to snack on unhealthy stuff. A lot of cravings are your body's response to nutritional deficiency and/or insufficient calories.
3. yes it's true that if someone eats nothing but very high calorie foods, they will often end up overeating, because these foods are not filling, so by the time you stop eating because you feel full, you've eaten more calories than you need. That's probably what was happening to the rats. However if you are counting calories and keep within your calories, high calorie "unhealthy" foods like donuts will not make you obese. Calories in versus calories out trumps all other factors.
4. there are people who end up fat eating nothing but healthy food, because they have poor portion control. Yes it's harder to get fat if you only eat healthy food, as they're more filling and less calorie dense, but it's possible and it happens. Yes even in people who exercise and eat healthy food. It's also possible to lose weight eating nothing but twinkie bars, and there's a scientist who did that. Now I'd never recommend the twinkie diet because it is not healthy and the guy who did it must have been constantly starving as twinkies are very high calorie and not filling, but you will lose weight on it, because you eat fewer calories than you burn off.0 -
It shouldn't be so much, "I CAN'T have this food." Rather, it should be "Why would I even need this food? Why is it really necessary?"
Fantastic comment!0 -
Deprivation CAN be a mindset. I'm a vegan and people ask me all the time if it's hard for me to not have certain things. I don't feel deprived at all, my diet is rich and varied and fills all my nutritional requirements. I think where deprivation is a bad thing is when you're cutting out whole food groups like carbs or fats, etc. If you're talking from a "junk food" angle, there's a ton of ways to have little treats that sneak in some nutrition but still feel naughty
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A lot of the foods that you are talking about are supernormal stimuli. Not only did we survive for thousands of years without cookies or crisps, we also survived for that long without the exaggerated response that those foods elicit. We have come to feel it is normal to have such a strong reaction to food and eating, where you feel like a tortured prisoner when you don't eat cake, but it isn't.
What supernormal stimuli are you talking about? Are you implying that palaeolithic people didn't enjoy their food? I'm pretty sure they did. Barbequed wild meat tastes fantastic, and some of the animals they ate, e.g. hippos, were very fatty. And they would have eaten honey, which is just as sweet as modern sweets.0 -
Great insights!0
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After having eaten carrots/celery/broccoli as a staple for several weeks now, I start to crave it after I haven't had them in a few days. Also, I'm not going to go without fudge because I'm on a healthy kick because I'm not an animal who will eat the whole pan when exposed to it. If I feel like eating a piece, because I know I like how it tastes, then I'm going to eat one piece.
Your argument, while based on valid points, is flawed in many aspects.0 -
also, how processed the junk is, the unnatural ingredients are not good for you, the molecules and chemicals you eat become a part of your body. how can that be healthy for you?0
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I agree with op, I will more often than not look at a cake or chocolate bar and think what it the point of eating this, it's not going to benefit my body and the taste in my mouth won't last long anyway.0
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You can't say "oh that person is fat because they ate too much."
You absolutely can. I would gain weight eating nothing but healthy foods (including whole grains, fruits, dairy products, lean meats, etc.), if I ate more calories than my TDEE. There may be different psychological and physiological responses to certain foods but the bottom line is calories in, calories out.0 -
I'm with her!I don't think you have to cut everything out but you can if you want to. I just work little treats into my goals. I actually ate a chips ahoy cookie yesterday. The difference is that I only ate one cookie instead of the whole bag. If you want to completely cut it out, that's fine. I just like to have a small indulgence once in a while.0 -
I definitely agree with you.
Indulgent foods CAN be healthy. But people choose to mull over the unhealthy stuff they can't eat because we're programmed to simply want what we can't have or what isn't good for us.0 -
I completely agree with you.
A lot of the foods that you are talking about are supernormal stimuli. Not only did we survive for thousands of years without cookies or crisps, we also survived for that long without the exaggerated response that those foods elicit. We have come to feel it is normal to have such a strong reaction to food and eating, where you feel like a tortured prisoner when you don't eat cake, but it isn't.
If you want a normal, moderate, evolved relationship with food, you have to cut all the supernormal stimuli from your diet and eat the stuff we ate back then.
so true, there has been much research done on how food companies use chemicals that are addicting in certain junk food to attract consumers back to the product,0 -
We (as a human population) enjoy a lot of things that may be considered unhealthy or high risk..
Whether people are physically depriving themselves of the calories and nutrients they need to keep their body healthy and functioning, or mentally deprived of things they enjoy, the depravation still exists.
If you don't enjoy sugary/fatty/salty foods, then obviously there's no point eating them.. the enjoyment and importance of food is different for different people. Personally, I love food, and I will never stop loving food. I don't experience 'cravings', I just know I enjoy the taste of certain foods and like to know I can have them when I want them and I have the ability to resist excessive amounts of things that aren't particularly healthy.
I think if you can happily eat a completely clean diet, more power to you! The 'journey' will be a lot easier for you than those who enjoy food as an experience, more than just a way to fuel the body!
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This suggests that "clean diets" can't be enjoyed (as an experience)? I just enjoyed the hell out of the lunch I ate. And it was quite "clean". I regularly have fantastic food. I start planning the next meal after finishing the last.We (as a human population) enjoy a lot of things that may be considered unhealthy or high risk..
Whether people are physically depriving themselves of the calories and nutrients they need to keep their body healthy and functioning, or mentally deprived of things they enjoy, the depravation still exists.
If you don't enjoy sugary/fatty/salty foods, then obviously there's no point eating them.. the enjoyment and importance of food is different for different people. Personally, I love food, and I will never stop loving food. I don't experience 'cravings', I just know I enjoy the taste of certain foods and like to know I can have them when I want them and I have the ability to resist excessive amounts of things that aren't particularly healthy.
I think if you can happily eat a completely clean diet, more power to you! The 'journey' will be a lot easier for you than those who enjoy food as an experience, more than just a way to fuel the body!0 -
Yes, we can decide to not eat a certain treat and that is a choice and we don't have to feel derived.
BUT there is nothing wrong with enjoying a cookie or doughnut from time to time if we so choose (and make it f it our day)0 -
The way I look at it, if I want something and it fits in with my calorie goals (TDEE -20%), then I have it. Period. I say this as I'm sitting here munching on pizza. The more you say, "Oh, I really like this, but oh no, I can't have it", the more likely you are to get discouraged and quit. And I'm not saying eat nothing but pizza, cookies, etc etc... you have to find the balance between that and the stuff that is good for you, fruits, veggies, lean meats... you get the idea. I started out that way and got frustrated really fast. Then I found the In Place of a Road Map, and all of a sudden, I CAN have all that stuff that I like (in moderation), and still have a new body that I can be proud of. Is it a mindset? Possibly, but it is human nature to crave certain things, and the question you have to ask yourself is "Is this the way I want to eat for the rest of my life?" Do I want to live the rest of my life without pizza and pasta and cookies? No. And the good news is I don't have to.0
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I couldn't disagree more, because Chips Ahoy bring me boatloads of happiness!0
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This suggests that "clean diets" can't be enjoyed (as an experience)? I just enjoyed the hell out of the lunch I ate. And it was quite "clean". I regularly have fantastic food. I start planning the next meal after finishing the last.We (as a human population) enjoy a lot of things that may be considered unhealthy or high risk..
Whether people are physically depriving themselves of the calories and nutrients they need to keep their body healthy and functioning, or mentally deprived of things they enjoy, the depravation still exists.
If you don't enjoy sugary/fatty/salty foods, then obviously there's no point eating them.. the enjoyment and importance of food is different for different people. Personally, I love food, and I will never stop loving food. I don't experience 'cravings', I just know I enjoy the taste of certain foods and like to know I can have them when I want them and I have the ability to resist excessive amounts of things that aren't particularly healthy.
I think if you can happily eat a completely clean diet, more power to you! The 'journey' will be a lot easier for you than those who enjoy food as an experience, more than just a way to fuel the body!
Like I said, different people see food in different ways. For example, I enjoy going to the cinema and eating popcorn and a big crushed ice drink, it is part of the 'experience' for ME.. that doesn't mean I don't enjoy eating a salad for lunch or that I don't enjoy healthy home-cooked meals almost every day, but I don't feel the need to tell myself I can't have it because it's just empty calories, my body doesn't need it, and the enjoyment is temporary.. the exact same could be said of skydiving, etc.
But thanks for attempting to twist my words.. I don't really have a for or against argument here.. just that people should be free to do/eat whatever they want without being made to feel like they are wrong. Some people NEED to go cold turkey, some people don't, some people think they don't but can't just eat one cookie, some people think they do but find eating some empty calories every so often isn't so bad..
Personally, I feel obsession is far more unhealthy than chocolate.. but that's just my opinion!0 -
Didn't twist em, just read em as they were presented.
This suggests that "clean diets" can't be enjoyed (as an experience)? I just enjoyed the hell out of the lunch I ate. And it was quite "clean". I regularly have fantastic food. I start planning the next meal after finishing the last.We (as a human population) enjoy a lot of things that may be considered unhealthy or high risk..
Whether people are physically depriving themselves of the calories and nutrients they need to keep their body healthy and functioning, or mentally deprived of things they enjoy, the depravation still exists.
If you don't enjoy sugary/fatty/salty foods, then obviously there's no point eating them.. the enjoyment and importance of food is different for different people. Personally, I love food, and I will never stop loving food. I don't experience 'cravings', I just know I enjoy the taste of certain foods and like to know I can have them when I want them and I have the ability to resist excessive amounts of things that aren't particularly healthy.
I think if you can happily eat a completely clean diet, more power to you! The 'journey' will be a lot easier for you than those who enjoy food as an experience, more than just a way to fuel the body!
Like I said, different people see food in different ways. For example, I enjoy going to the cinema and eating popcorn and a big crushed ice drink, it is part of the 'experience' for ME.. that doesn't mean I don't enjoy eating a salad for lunch or that I don't enjoy healthy home-cooked meals almost every day, but I don't feel the need to tell myself I can't have it because it's just empty calories, my body doesn't need it, and the enjoyment is temporary.. the exact same could be said of skydiving, etc.
But thanks for attempting to twist my words.. I don't really have a for or against argument here.. just that people should be free to do/eat whatever they want without being made to feel like they are wrong. Some people NEED to go cold turkey, some people don't, some people think they don't but can't just eat one cookie, some people think they do but find eating some empty calories every so often isn't so bad..
Personally, I feel obsession is far more unhealthy than chocolate.. but that's just my opinion!
Enjoy your popcorn.I think if you can happily eat a completely clean diet, more power to you! The 'journey' will be a lot easier for you than those who enjoy food as an experience, more than just a way to fuel the body!0 -
What confuses me most about weight loss & lifestyle changes is when people say "don't cut out any foods! don't deprive yourself!"
Is choosing to no longer eat the same empty calorie, sugary, fatty, salty foods that made you overweight in the first place really depriving yourself? By choosing to skip the donuts at work, what are you missing out on, really?
I don't believe anyone has to have a certain junk food in order to be "happy" or to live a full life. Even if it tastes good in that moment, that bag of chips ahoy cookies isn't giving you true happiness. I think the belief that everyone needs to routinely subject themselves to instant gratification in order to "stay sane" on a healthy lifestyle journey is a myth. Think about it. Humans have existed for thousands of years without cookies or crisps. Also, foods like that tend to have an addictive effect on some people, & it isn't uncommon to hear of someone eating 2000 calories worth of such foods in one sitting. Why then, is a person being "unrealistic" or "depriving themselves" by choosing to simply not to eat such things anymore?
I think the deprivation thing is all in people's minds. You only think its necessary because by repeatedly eating it, you've programmed your brain to thinking it's necessary (something I'm positive you can unprogram your brain out of). It shouldn't be so much, "I CAN'T have this food." Rather, it should be "Why would I even need this food? Why is it really necessary?"
Just a thought.
I loved this! You know, for most of my life I was worried about depriving myself of foods I liked (sweets & desserts, double bacon cheeseburgers to name a few) but what I I feel now I should have been worried about depriving myself of was a long and healthful life. When I ate that way my body was riddled with disease and poor health – hypertension, sleep apnea, GERD. I changed the way I looked at food and adopted a garbage-in/garbage-out attitude. When that happened I lost 100 pounds, my high blood pressure, my sleep apnea, my GERD and the horrible way I felt about myself. My way not be the way for everyone, but I love my decision and feel deprived of nothing now even though I don't eat any of the things I once did.0 -
I seem to be incapable of splitting quotes and don't want to flood this topic with my own personal mantra of "live and let live".. But I will certainly enjoy my popcorn next time I go to the cinema!0
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Nice post! You made some great points. I agree that it is all in your perspective.0
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Its a proven fact that if you stop eating junk food, you will stop craving junk food. I used to pop M&Ms like crack. I would crave them so bad every night! Ice cream as well! But I decided the only way to go off them was cold turkey. It took only about a week of not having them to stop craving them almost entirely. It was a week of "oh, my God, I really need some M&Ms", but I resisted & I don't crave them at all anymore. That's not deprivation, that's me training my body to want good foods, not crap.0
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I think many folks find that if they can successfully cut the crap, they begin to crave other, healthier foods instead.Its a proven fact that if you stop eating junk food, you will stop craving junk food. I used to pop M&Ms like crack. I would crave them so bad every night! Ice cream as well! But I decided the only way to go off them was cold turkey. It took only about a week of not having them to stop craving them almost entirely. It was a week of "oh, my God, I really need some M&Ms", but I resisted & I don't crave them at all anymore. That's not deprivation, that's me training my body to want good foods, not crap.0 -
There is a difference between deprivation and moderation, and it is all based on how you interpret each word.
To me depriving oneself means never, ever allowing yourself simple pleasures. That means not enjoying that burger at the cook out, not enjoying that slice of cake at your best friend's baby shower, and not enjoying a serving of meatballs at the company christmas party.
Moderation means knowing to stop at that one slice of cake, that one serving of meatballs, and that one burger. Moderation means enjoying life and not allowing the healthy life style you have chosen to control you. You control the lifestyle.
Also...I am not a lab rat. Please don't refer to studies unless they are of humans...thanks.0
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