The Conformity of Slang?

BurtHuttz
BurtHuttz Posts: 3,653 Member
So I saw someone from England adopt the term "douchecanoe" today in the forums. And this got me to thinking.

Communication causes the distribution, adoption, and use (thus redistribution) of slang terminology. Prior to the printing press, local slang terms did not spread as quickly or with the same geographic breadth, because writing was a more formal endeavor and communication was more localized. As the printing press was introduced and words became mass produced, words were distributed more quickly and broadly, and with greater and greater efficiency.

As modes of communication such as radio and television have been introduced, so it seems that the economics of language have followed this curve. As local media has been supplanted by national media, it seems like our informal vocabulary has gradually simplified into a more harmonized series of slang terms (see: douche.)

The internet now facilitates instant, nearly zero-cost communication globally. Is it likely that the internet will thus simplify and reduce the slang in English-speaking countries? On a long enough timeline, will this leave us with a common lexicon consisting of terms like "smeg" or "frak"?

Navel-gazing,
Burt
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Replies

  • Cr01502
    Cr01502 Posts: 3,614 Member
    Didn't all words start off as slang at some point?

    I just can't wait for the day Websters include "douchecanoe" in their dictionary.
  • Izzwoz
    Izzwoz Posts: 348 Member
    I am a big fan of slang and its globalization. I do my bit by introducing new terms and sayings every day.

    Being a professional linguist, I love what language can do and how it evolves, how terms change meaning (favourite example is "gay") and how people make expressions their own.

    Some people would like to be able to time travel to see if we will have populated far away planets - I would like to check the dictionary of the future for the terms "smeg" and "frak".
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    I'm a Brit married to an American, and I know I've picked up a lot of Americanisms, because I've been informed of this by other Brits. That is then exacerbated by the fact that I'm an expat, and so have spent a lot of time speaking with non-British English speakers, and not so much time speaking with other Brits, to the point that I think twice before using British slang words, because I'm used to getting baffled looks in response to it.

    To be honest I don't really care that much.

    Though this post is the first time in my life that I've typed the word "douchecanoe"
  • SueSlick
    SueSlick Posts: 268 Member
    The English have lots of slang to bring to this party...and that's before you even start considering their rhyming slangs!
  • I h8 it. It's almst as bad as txt spk. :)
  • Cr01502
    Cr01502 Posts: 3,614 Member
    I'm a Brit married to an American, and I know I've picked up a lot of Americanisms, because I've been informed of this by other Brits. That is then exacerbated by the fact that I'm an expat, and so have spent a lot of time speaking with non-British English speakers, and not so much time speaking with other Brits, to the point that I think twice before using British slang words, because I'm used to getting baffled looks in response to it.

    To be honest I don't really care that much.

    Though this post is the first time in my life that I've typed the word "douchecanoe"

    I'm an American living in Britain. SO I picked up on alot of Britishisms. I think I got the good end of the deal.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,228 Member
    Bump to read at work.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Because of Harry Potter, my kids will say, "Don't be thick," "Bloody hell," and "Gone mental."
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    The English have lots of slang to bring to this party...and that's before you even start considering their rhyming slangs!

    awrite ma'e, aah ya doin'? I go' a mahoosive load a Bri'ish slang for ya luv! Wot dialec' dya fancy? Scouse? Brummie? Geordie? 'Ow abou' Glaswegian? Ahm speakin' Cockney right nah luv. Can frow a bi' a eschree in there wiv dat, inni'. Nuffink dodgy abaa' my Bri'ish slang, inni'.

    (although I can't type in Scouse, Brummie, Geordie or Glaswegian really... not sure I can even understand broad Geordie or Glaswegian that well myself, being an Estuary English speaker as I am... (probably the most hated dialect in the UK after Brummie*))

    *independent testing found that Brummie was the most hated of all UK dialects... don't remember what was 2nd most hated, but Estuary was probably quite high up the list.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    Because of Harry Potter, my kids will say, "Don't be thick," "Bloody hell," and "Gone mental."

    "bloody hell" is considered a swearword in the UK... it's a mild one though, not in the same league as other swearwords though. It's fine when used to mean "covered in blood" but not when used like "where's the bloody remote" or "bloody hell" - I try not to say stuff like that in front of the kids.... some people will say "blooming" or "blimming" instead of "bloody" to tone their language down.

    (just in case you didn't know, for future reference if you visit the UK)
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    Language evolution is fascinating.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    I h8 it. It's almst as bad as txt spk. :)
    Text speak is a different thing. But if language didn't change, we would speak something very, very, very different from what we speak now. You wouldn't even recognize it!
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
    Because of Harry Potter, my kids will say, "Don't be thick," "Bloody hell," and "Gone mental."

    I definitely pick things up from books. Authors generally have favorite words and phrases that will get stuck in my head if I read that author a lot. One of my favorite books is about surfers and after listening to it on cd I kept having to stop myself from using the slang when talking to people.
  • Flab2fitfi
    Flab2fitfi Posts: 1,349 Member
    I can remember my aunts lock of shock when someone called my son a little bugger - she come from New Zealand and there its a strong swear word but in Norfolk its just another term like monkey. However she would use the s**t Word as they did not considered it a bad word.

    I can remember moving up north and hearing the term muppet for the first time and did not know it was used as an insult.

    We also used to have discussions at uni about what people called bread rolls - barn cakes, baps and in Yorkshire its called a tea cake. any where else in the UK a tea cake has sultanas in but here it means a plain bread roll.
  • thetammymcdaniel
    thetammymcdaniel Posts: 3 Member
    I h8 it. It's almst as bad as txt spk. :)

    OK, this shouldn't count as an actual reply post because all I want to say is, LOL! I wish the forums had a simple "like" button for each post then I wouldn't have the urge to reply with absolutely nothing to say albeit using a few sentences to do it. MFP could also supply some emotion/ADJ votes after each post: BS, HA HA, BOO, LOVE, HATE, DRAMA QUEEN, HERE'S A TISSUE, INSPIRING, GO FOR A RUN, NOW, GOOD JOB!

    TTFN...

    Cheers!
  • I love language. Enjoyed reading these posts:)
  • WinnerVictorious
    WinnerVictorious Posts: 4,733 Member
    we have plenty of regionalisms in the USA. one of the more interesting ones is the use of soda vs. pop vs. coke in various parts of the country. there are many others (e.g., sub vs. hero vs. grinder vs. hoagie).

    right click the map graphic and select "view image" to see the whole thing.

    popvssodamap.gif
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    Because of Harry Potter, my kids will say, "Don't be thick," "Bloody hell," and "Gone mental."

    "bloody hell" is considered a swearword in the UK... it's a mild one though, not in the same league as other swearwords though. It's fine when used to mean "covered in blood" but not when used like "where's the bloody remote" or "bloody hell" - I try not to say stuff like that in front of the kids.... some people will say "blooming" or "blimming" instead of "bloody" to tone their language down.

    (just in case you didn't know, for future reference if you visit the UK)

    Aren't "swear words" considered slang? I consider them as such. I don't care if my kids use slang. Mind you, my kids are teenagers, not little ones.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    I can remember my aunts lock of shock when someone called my son a little bugger - she come from New Zealand and there its a strong swear word but in Norfolk its just another term like monkey. However she would use the s**t Word as they did not considered it a bad word.

    I can remember moving up north and hearing the term muppet for the first time and did not know it was used as an insult.

    We also used to have discussions at uni about what people called bread rolls - barn cakes, baps and in Yorkshire its called a tea cake. any where else in the UK a tea cake has sultanas in but here it means a plain bread roll.

    Differences in language like that can have dire consequences in terms of miscommuniciation

    in southern UK, "chuffed" means really happy; in the north, it means the same as the f-word (though not considered as rude)

    in southern UK, "well" can be used as an intensifier for an adjective, e.g. "well annoyed" = "very annoyed" etc.

    Anyway this girl from down south was with a bunch of northerners and she wanted to say "I was very happy last night" so she said "I was well chuffed last night" .................


    another one, American in London

    y'all know what *kitten* means in the USA. In many parts of the UK it means cigarettes

    American in London, gets taxi. Taxis nowadays have no smoking rules (i.e. taxi drivers are not allowed to smoke in their taxis) driver stops outside a building and says to the American... "you don't mind waiting five minutes do ya? I'm just going round the back to have a *kitten*."
  • Admiral_Derp
    Admiral_Derp Posts: 866 Member
    Isn't it bad enough that these forums are racist, sexist, misogynist, and classist? The last thing we need is a *disgusted face* linguist! smh
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
    For the record, I adore slang. I hate the concept of "cuss words" or "swear words." In America, it's ok to say "*kitten*," but only if you are referring to a donkey. It's ok to say "b1tch," but only if you are talking about a female dog. It's ok hell, but only if you are talking about the place for bad people mentioned in the Bible. Outside of context, those three words can't be spoken, unless it's after 9pm. :laugh:

    Allowing for a word to be "forbidden" when it's so commonly spoken is one of American's worst hypocrisies.

    ETA! I forgot about....It's ok to say dam, when referring to a structure intended to impound flowing water.
  • harvo
    harvo Posts: 4,676 Member
    Yo, check it. In some, if not all states Ebonics be recoginized foo as a legit language and *kitten*. Fo rizzle, I ain't believe it yo and a teach be hollerin at me and made it legit!
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,228 Member
    Yes, eventually the English-language, I think, will completely assimilate itself. But then again, there will always be unique dialects. Some regions pride themselves on the uniqueness of their dialect and their regional slang.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    Because of Harry Potter, my kids will say, "Don't be thick," "Bloody hell," and "Gone mental."

    "bloody hell" is considered a swearword in the UK... it's a mild one though, not in the same league as other swearwords though. It's fine when used to mean "covered in blood" but not when used like "where's the bloody remote" or "bloody hell" - I try not to say stuff like that in front of the kids.... some people will say "blooming" or "blimming" instead of "bloody" to tone their language down.

    (just in case you didn't know, for future reference if you visit the UK)

    Aren't "swear words" considered slang? I consider them as such. I don't care if my kids use slang. Mind you, my kids are teenagers, not little ones.

    probably, it was just a "just in case you didn't know" - so they don't say it in front of people who might take offense to it. But I'd be fine with my kids saying "don't be thick" or "gone mental" in class,so long as they're not used in an insulting way (they can be in some contexts but usually are fine if you say them to friends)... but they might get a detention for saying "bloody hell" within earshot of a teacher. That depends on how strict the teacher is though.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    Yes, eventually the English-language, I think, will completely assimilate itself. But then again, there will always be unique dialects. Some regions pride themselves on the uniqueness of their dialect and their regional slang.

    I think what you'll get, and I think it's already emerging, is "regional" internet dialects of written slang. This is a very new thing, because until recently, written English was by and large formal, but the advent of the internet has resulted in all kinds of informal ways of writing, and internet slang, which includes smileys made from punctuation.... and rather than geographic regions, you are likely to get "regional" differences based on "where"on the internet people hang out. This is similar to the concept of memes, but is in relation to ways of using written language and punctuation, which could be considered a form of written slang.

    So while there may be assimilation in terms of geographical regional dialects, there may actually end up being diversification of online dialects, linked to particular sites, forums etc, rather than geographical regions.
  • Douchecanoe? What wonder does this describe?

    Re: soda or pop I live in Virginia and call carbonated sugar bombs soft drinks. I also call my sneakers tennis shoes. I believe it's Wisconsinites who call water fountains bubblers, which I've always found delightful.
  • SpeSHul_SnoflEHk
    SpeSHul_SnoflEHk Posts: 6,256 Member
    So I saw someone from England adopt the term "douchecanoe" today in the forums. And this got me to thinking.

    Communication causes the distribution, adoption, and use (thus redistribution) of slang terminology. Prior to the printing press, local slang terms did not spread as quickly or with the same geographic breadth, because writing was a more formal endeavor and communication was more localized. As the printing press was introduced and words became mass produced, words were distributed more quickly and broadly, and with greater and greater efficiency.

    As modes of communication such as radio and television have been introduced, so it seems that the economics of language have followed this curve. As local media has been supplanted by national media, it seems like our informal vocabulary has gradually simplified into a more harmonized series of slang terms (see: douche.)

    The internet now facilitates instant, nearly zero-cost communication globally. Is it likely that the internet will thus simplify and reduce the slang in English-speaking countries? On a long enough timeline, will this leave us with a common lexicon consisting of terms like "smeg" or "frak"?

    Navel-gazing,
    Burt

    I haven't read anyone else's replies yet, but this is actually a well studied phenomena. When I was doing my undergrad work, I attended a few seminars that were offered by a visiting lecturer named Jared Diamond. He is an evolutionary biologist who has done some work studying the evolution of languages. He gave a great lecture one night about the evolution of languages where two seperate languages come together in trade and commerce. He used the communnities of Papua New Guinea as an example of how this happens. He discusses how when you have two languages (or dialects, etc) come together, there is usually a third language that is formed a dumbed down version of the two. (It's kind of like spanglish here in the states). If you are more interested in this issue, you can read Diamond's books "Guns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Society." or "The Third Chimpanzee" Fair warning, some of his case studies had been disputed in that work. I don't know what the final verdict was. However, his postulates make sense, and they do seem to fit what I have observed in my life.
  • SpeSHul_SnoflEHk
    SpeSHul_SnoflEHk Posts: 6,256 Member
    Because of Harry Potter, my kids will say, "Don't be thick," "Bloody hell," and "Gone mental."

    "bloody hell" is considered a swearword in the UK... it's a mild one though, not in the same league as other swearwords though. It's fine when used to mean "covered in blood" but not when used like "where's the bloody remote" or "bloody hell" - I try not to say stuff like that in front of the kids.... some people will say "blooming" or "blimming" instead of "bloody" to tone their language down.

    (just in case you didn't know, for future reference if you visit the UK)

    And be careful about talking about your fanny pack.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,228 Member
    Yes, eventually the English-language, I think, will completely assimilate itself. But then again, there will always be unique dialects. Some regions pride themselves on the uniqueness of their dialect and their regional slang.

    I think what you'll get, and I think it's already emerging, is "regional" internet dialects of written slang. This is a very new thing, because until recently, written English was by and large formal, but the advent of the internet has resulted in all kinds of informal ways of writing, and internet slang, which includes smileys made from punctuation.... and rather than geographic regions, you are likely to get "regional" differences based on "where"on the internet people hang out. This is similar to the concept of memes, but is in relation to ways of using written language and punctuation, which could be considered a form of written slang.

    So while there may be assimilation in terms of geographical regional dialects, there may actually end up being diversification of online dialects, linked to particular sites, forums etc, rather than geographical regions.

    I kind of understand what you mean here. MFP has acronyms and sayings that aren't necessarily found on other sites.