Protein/shakes while eating at a deficit

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fankyskag
fankyskag Posts: 47 Member
in Food and Nutrition
I know there are thousands of topics about protein and I've searched through a load of them, but I can't find the answers I'm looking for. I'm also aware that this question will seem ridiculous to those in the know, so bear with me!

I'm new to the whole fitness/exercise thing and, therefore, I'm still learning about the body's requirements as a result. So I'm wondering what the benefits/detriments are of drinking protein shakes - or generally upping protein intake - while eating under maintenance? I'm aware that I won't gain muscle with a deficit, but I am aiming to lose body fat and appear more "toned" as a result. Do I need to up my protein in order to do this, or is the deficit adequate?

I'm doing 30DS which obviously works muscles a little (I'd love to do lifting, but have no access to those kind of weights), but is that extra protein really going to make a difference to the results? I usually get around 70g of protein from my food on average and don't have much weight to lose as such (I'm 5'2 and 127lb), but a lot of inches.

I'd just like some advice before spending any money on supplements. I appreciate any help given!
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Replies

  • Warchortle
    Warchortle Posts: 2,197 Member
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    If you are brand new to resistance training you can build some lean muscle in a deficit. Protein shakes aren't like a vitamin that you need per say.. it's just something to add into your routine if you're not getting ENOUGH protein. Treat protein shakes as a food and MFP calculates protein levels too low. You could maybe add one shake after your work out, but you should fit it into your caloric budget.
  • digitalsteel
    digitalsteel Posts: 374 Member
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    I started with good meat and pushups. You don't need expensive supplements or equipment to get it done.
  • fankyskag
    fankyskag Posts: 47 Member
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    If you are brand new to resistance training you can build some lean muscle in a deficit. Protein shakes aren't like a vitamin that you need per say.. it's just something to add into your routine if you're not getting ENOUGH protein. Treat protein shakes as a food and MFP calculates protein levels too low. You could maybe add one shake after your work out, but you should fit it into your caloric budget.

    I didn't know that, but did wonder how I would seem to be getting stronger without muscles changing somehow. If I go down the shake route, it'll definitely be calculated into my calorie goal. MFP has my protein set at 90g, so I'm trying to treat that as more of a minimum goal rather than a maximum.
    I started with good meat and pushups. You don't need expensive supplements or equipment to get it done.

    Definitely! I was just unsure if I should really be pushing to get a load of protein in when I'm not really working the muscles that much.

    Thanks guys!
  • Debbiedebbiey
    Debbiedebbiey Posts: 824 Member
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    Why do people say "if you are just starting out you can build lean muscle eating at a deficit"? Vs. you can't build muscle while eating TDEE -20% if you have 30 lbs to lose ? I don't get that part .
  • digitalsteel
    digitalsteel Posts: 374 Member
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    Why do people say "if you are just starting out you can build lean muscle eating at a deficit"? Vs. you can't build muscle while eating TDEE -20% if you have 30 lbs to lose ? I don't get that part .

    I don't understand, fat burning and muscle building are not mutually exclusive things.
  • Debbiedebbiey
    Debbiedebbiey Posts: 824 Member
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    Lost me again
  • sally_jeffswife
    sally_jeffswife Posts: 766 Member
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    Protein shakes are good to maintain muscle after working out and also it helps your muscles not be so sore after really working them. You don't need to spend a ton of money on them though. You can make your own if you have a blender and it actually has a ton of protein. There's a recipe on you tube I saw and it actually is suppose to have around 45g of protein if you make it. Just need 1 cup of Lowfat Cottage Cheese,1 cup skim milk,1 Tbsp "all natural" peanut butter,5 ice cubes, and 1/2 a package of sugar free chocolate jello pudding. I don't think protein shakes are something absolutely necessary at all. I just think they are nice like for a day when you sleep in and skip breakfast but need something to fill you up and also help some with your workout. Or for after you work out super hard so your muscles aren't in so much pain.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Why do people say "if you are just starting out you can build lean muscle eating at a deficit"? Vs. you can't build muscle while eating TDEE -20% if you have 30 lbs to lose ? I don't get that part .

    I think this is a great explanation:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html
  • Debbiedebbiey
    Debbiedebbiey Posts: 824 Member
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    Thanks Sidesteel.:smile:
  • fankyskag
    fankyskag Posts: 47 Member
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    Protein shakes are good to maintain muscle after working out and also it helps your muscles not be so sore after really working them. You don't need to spend a ton of money on them though. You can make your own if you have a blender and it actually has a ton of protein. There's a recipe on you tube I saw and it actually is suppose to have around 45g of protein if you make it. Just need 1 cup of Lowfat Cottage Cheese,1 cup skim milk,1 Tbsp "all natural" peanut butter,5 ice cubes, and 1/2 a package of sugar free chocolate jello pudding. I don't think protein shakes are something absolutely necessary at all. I just think they are nice like for a day when you sleep in and skip breakfast but need something to fill you up and also help some with your workout. Or for after you work out super hard so your muscles aren't in so much pain.

    Thanks for this - sounds yummy!
    I think this is a great explanation:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

    Thanks, also. So people with fat to lose that are new to training can gain some muscle, but those with a lower BF % are much less likely (which is why those who want to eat above maintenance)? I see! I'll be a bit worried if I end up wanting to increase my muscle size once I get my fat down. Eating above maintenance sounds scary.
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    Thanks, also. So people with fat to lose that are new to training can gain some muscle, but those with a lower BF % are much less likely (which is why those who want to eat above maintenance)?

    Basically yes.
    I see! I'll be a bit worried if I end up wanting to increase my muscle size once I get my fat down. Eating above maintenance sounds scary.

    It can be intimidating because you do gain a little fat along the way, but it's also very enjoyable for both satiety and gym performance.
  • jjrichard83
    jjrichard83 Posts: 483 Member
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    I know there are thousands of topics about protein and I've searched through a load of them, but I can't find the answers I'm looking for. I'm also aware that this question will seem ridiculous to those in the know, so bear with me!

    I'm new to the whole fitness/exercise thing and, therefore, I'm still learning about the body's requirements as a result. So I'm wondering what the benefits/detriments are of drinking protein shakes - or generally upping protein intake - while eating under maintenance? I'm aware that I won't gain muscle with a deficit, but I am aiming to lose body fat and appear more "toned" as a result. Do I need to up my protein in order to do this, or is the deficit adequate?

    I'm doing 30DS which obviously works muscles a little (I'd love to do lifting, but have no access to those kind of weights), but is that extra protein really going to make a difference to the results? I usually get around 70g of protein from my food on average and don't have much weight to lose as such (I'm 5'2 and 127lb), but a lot of inches.

    I'd just like some advice before spending any money on supplements. I appreciate any help given!

    You say you are aware that you won't gain muscle while in deficit. That is untrue. I say this (like others have) to highlight that there are MANY misinformations being touted as truths. Assume that EVERYTHING you were told, or that you know about this is wrong. I recently learned through a number of peer reviewed studies show that you need significantly less protein than 1-2g per lb (or even lean weight) to build muscle. Even now with all the research, people are still (trainers, nutrition "experts", people on here) spewing what they believe to be truths. NSCA (National Strength and Conditioning Association and the National RDA guide recommend 0.8 grams for FULL TIME ATHLETES, with the average active person only 0.4-0.6 grams.

    Not saying peer reviewed studies are best - because sometimes it takes 5-10 years for that info to become a reality. However, just believing someone tell you that A cause their results when they mistakenly discounted that it was B that was actually responsible.

    People don't like that answer because everyone wants the easy solutions. The body doesn't work that way. Most who think it's one thing that helped them really don't know for sure - it's just their own selective bias. Experiment with everything, and keep track as well.

    Lastly - We are not all beautiful snowflakes. What works for one, will most likely work for the rest - unless health conditions do not permit. Problem is many are not willing to alter their lifestyle to others. Look for multiple sources, and conflicting sources as well. Much of the info you get on here is useful, but plenty of it is not. Even some "peer reviewed" studies are not worth the paper it's written on. The Smoking Association had peer reviewed studies for years showing that there was no evidence smoking caused any health risks!
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    You say you are aware that you won't gain muscle while in deficit. That is untrue. I say this (like others have) to highlight that there are MANY misinformations being touted as truths. Assume that EVERYTHING you were told, or that you know about this is wrong.

    This is very dependent on context.


    I recently learned through a number of peer reviewed studies show that you need significantly less protein than 1-2g per lb (or even lean weight) to build muscle. Even now with all the research, people are still (trainers, nutrition "experts", people on here) spewing what they believe to be truths. NSCA (National Strength and Conditioning Association and the National RDA guide recommend 0.8 grams for FULL TIME ATHLETES, with the average active person only 0.4-0.6 grams.

    Here's a set of research indicating positive effects when double or even triple the RDA is consumed.
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/823505-research-on-protien-intake

    Additionally, the RDA primarily uses old studies that use nitrogen balance as a proxy for protein synthesis. Nitrogen balance is not tissue specific and consequently it's not necessarily telling you what happens with muscle protein accretion/breakdown.

    I would really hesitate to recommend or suggest the RDA's protein recommendations for the majority of fitness minded folks.
  • LAMypie
    LAMypie Posts: 127 Member
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    Protein helps make you and keep you feeling full. Other than helping repair your muscles after exercise, this is a BIG reason they're popular. That is why I add protein powder to my smoothies. Without it, I'm hungry in an hr, with it I can make it to lunch easy peasy.
  • haroon_awan
    haroon_awan Posts: 1,208 Member
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    Protein shakes are just a substitute for a piece of chicken or turkey, or fish or extra lean meat. If you haven't eaten any protein today and don't want to cook chicken, drink a protein shake. That's it. It works out a hell of a lot cheaper than the equivalent amount of lean meat or fish.

    Also, read:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/869015-fundamental-flaws-with-rda-recommendations-for-protein
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/823505-research-on-protien-intake
  • jezama77
    jezama77 Posts: 138 Member
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    Protein helps make you and keep you feeling full. Other than helping repair your muscles after exercise, this is a BIG reason they're popular. That is why I add protein powder to my smoothies. Without it, I'm hungry in an hr, with it I can make it to lunch easy peasy.

    This is me. I think a protein shake with half a bowl of cereal or oatmeal makes a great breakfast that will last me until lunch. I try to eat some veggies around 10ish, but sometimes I'm too busy. I like to have protein with all my meals, but for me it is usually either a protein shake or beans because I am a vegetarian. I am transitioning to a whole foods, plant-based diet though. It is the best thing that I have done for my health in a really long time. I feel like I may actually stop my yo-yo cycle of gaining 15-20 pounds then getting back to goal then repeat...
  • cheddle
    cheddle Posts: 102 Member
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    increasing the portion of calories consumed from protein, even whilst eating a deficit, is a good idea.

    Increasing protein intake will:
    Reduce appetite
    Ensure that you have enough protein to rebuild tissues throughout your body (not just muscles)
    Promote muscle gain/retention, which in turn will lead to a "better "body that burns more fuel and is capable of higher performance

    Some cons to consider:
    Using shakes is not as good as eating a wholesome source of protein like meat, dairy, eggs ect... I have read that they digest faster and contain less nutrients than real food.
    Shakes are not a cheap source of protein, but they are convenient

    FYI - you CAN gain muscle while in a deficit if your significantly over weight... I have done this when dropping from 143kgs to 87kgs. though once below about 105kgs I started to loose muscle and strength. there is a point for all people where this muscle gain/loss will change.
  • fankyskag
    fankyskag Posts: 47 Member
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    Re the conflicting opinions about gaining muscle when losing weight: I think I'll just continue trying to lose fat and if I gain muscle along the way that's always a bonus, but not a focus right now.
    Thanks, also. So people with fat to lose that are new to training can gain some muscle, but those with a lower BF % are much less likely (which is why those who want to eat above maintenance)?

    Basically yes.
    I see! I'll be a bit worried if I end up wanting to increase my muscle size once I get my fat down. Eating above maintenance sounds scary.

    It can be intimidating because you do gain a little fat along the way, but it's also very enjoyable for both satiety and gym performance.

    But then of course you cut calories to lose the fat again, yes? I'll have to read up on it for the future.
  • fankyskag
    fankyskag Posts: 47 Member
    Options
    Protein helps make you and keep you feeling full. Other than helping repair your muscles after exercise, this is a BIG reason they're popular. That is why I add protein powder to my smoothies. Without it, I'm hungry in an hr, with it I can make it to lunch easy peasy.

    This is me. I think a protein shake with half a bowl of cereal or oatmeal makes a great breakfast that will last me until lunch. I try to eat some veggies around 10ish, but sometimes I'm too busy. I like to have protein with all my meals, but for me it is usually either a protein shake or beans because I am a vegetarian. I am transitioning to a whole foods, plant-based diet though. It is the best thing that I have done for my health in a really long time. I feel like I may actually stop my yo-yo cycle of gaining 15-20 pounds then getting back to goal then repeat...

    I love meat and fish, but I'd find it quite hard to eat it constantly. As I said in the OP, I already average around 70g of protein a day from my food, so the shakes would just be to supplement that if required. I don't think I could just have a shake as a snack - I'd feel cheated! If I have enough calories for a shake I can probably make something else up to equal it. I had thought about putting powder in with meals, though, to satisfy me fully.
    Protein shakes are just a substitute for a piece of chicken or turkey, or fish or extra lean meat. If you haven't eaten any protein today and don't want to cook chicken, drink a protein shake. That's it. It works out a hell of a lot cheaper than the equivalent amount of lean meat or fish.

    Also, read:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/869015-fundamental-flaws-with-rda-recommendations-for-protein
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/823505-research-on-protien-intake

    Thanks. Going to have a look now!
  • fankyskag
    fankyskag Posts: 47 Member
    Options
    increasing the portion of calories consumed from protein, even whilst eating a deficit, is a good idea.

    Increasing protein intake will:
    Reduce appetite
    Ensure that you have enough protein to rebuild tissues throughout your body (not just muscles)
    Promote muscle gain/retention, which in turn will lead to a "better "body that burns more fuel and is capable of higher performance

    Some cons to consider:
    Using shakes is not as good as eating a wholesome source of protein like meat, dairy, eggs ect... I have read that they digest faster and contain less nutrients than real food.
    Shakes are not a cheap source of protein, but they are convenient

    FYI - you CAN gain muscle while in a deficit if your significantly over weight... I have done this when dropping from 143kgs to 87kgs. though once below about 105kgs I started to loose muscle and strength. there is a point for all people where this muscle gain/loss will change.

    Very helpful. Thank you. Definitely going to try and get as much protein as possible from food. I'm not significantly overweight so am less likely to gain a substantial amount of muscle, but it's good to know that is is actually possible.

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