The Seven Secrets of Slim People

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  • ScottishMrs
    ScottishMrs Posts: 254 Member
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    Just figured i would chime in here... intuitive eating does not work and is a terrible way to base your eating habits off of.

    Please do some more research. :)

    What makes you say that it doesn't work? I was at the perfect weight and a good fitness level when I first moved out because I had full control over when, what, and how much I ate. I didn't count calories or anything like that; I just ate when I felt I needed food. I lost 10lbs like that. The reason I'm currently calorie counting to lose weight is because of a combination of a knee injury that prevented me from doing any sort of working out for quite some time and working shift work which messed with my body and made me gain. What has caused your opinion to be that it doesn't work? (This question is 100% serious. I'm curious.)
  • holothuroidea
    holothuroidea Posts: 772 Member
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    Just figured i would chime in here... intuitive eating does not work and is a terrible way to base your eating habits off of.

    Please do some more research. :)

    Don't you just love when people drop bombs like this without citing any sources or providing any reasoning?
  • etoiles_argentees
    etoiles_argentees Posts: 2,827 Member
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    Just figured i would chime in here... intuitive eating does not work and is a terrible way to base your eating habits off of.

    Please do some more research. :)

    What?! Of course it does. If you can't do it quit bashing others that can.
  • angiechimpanzee
    angiechimpanzee Posts: 536 Member
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    There is a book by Paul McKenna called "I can make you thin" and the entire book has four simple rules that if followed will help you to lose weight and they are.

    1. When your body is physically hungry, no matter the time, eat.
    2. When your body is physically hungry and you eat, what you really want and not what you think you should eat.
    3. When you eat make sure you enjoy each individual bite. He recommends chewing each bite at least twenty times and to think about that bite and the different flavors and textures associated with it.
    4. Stop when you are no longer physically hungry, no matter how much food is or is not left on your plate.

    They're great concepts and really so simple but for me I struggle at times doing them because there are times that I know I'm not hungry and yet I want to eat (and do) anyway despite the fact I know very clearly that I'm not hungry. It makes no sense to me but it sounds like the book you read and Paul's book are similar. Paul also gets into some hypnosis type stuff that may help some people. All in all I think it's a great concept, I just have a hard time with the whole "not eating when you're not physically hungry" concept.
    That book does sound quite similar.

    "there are times that I know I'm not hungry and yet I want to eat (and do) anyway despite the fact I know very clearly that I'm not hungry. "

    I'm sure that's something most of us here struggle with lol hence why we all have or have had weight issues in the past. And I know it's going to be my biggest obstacle. The book goes into detail about why we feel that way sometimes (upbringing, habits that have been practiced for YEARS like eating for leisure or whenever you don't feel emotionally great, or even when you're happy) and how to slowly get away from doing that, but the bottom line is that eating for reasons besides hunger was never originally an issue for us humans. It's a learned behavior.

    And when you think about it, if you don't master eating only when you're hungry, it's going to be extremely difficult to manage your weight loss goal after you reach it. We can't all count calories forever. And usually the mindset of "I'll cross that bridge when I get there" (as far as maintenance goes) is what screws us up because usually by the time we get there we're so exhausted and relieved and ready to just EAT again (I know I was). I'm not sure hypnosis would even be necessary. People just have to develop the understanding (through knowledge AND practice) that your body doesn't need more than it asks for.
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
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    Sorry, I was out of touch for a while. I didn't just come in here and "bash" because clearly i stated that it is wrong. To understand why it's wrong you need to understand WHY you feel hungry and the way that your body works. Hunger and Satiety are controlled by two hormones called Leptin and Ghrelin.

    Leptin is the hormone in your body that regulates hunger. Leptin production follows caloric intake: if you restrict calories, your Leptin production will decrease and you will feel less hungry. This is how anorexics can eat 800 calories a day and not feel hungry. If you eat more, your Leptin production will increase, and you will feel more hungry.

    Because you are restricting calories, your Leptin production is out of whack; meaning, DO NOT listen to your body about how much/when to eat. Get your calories in and your Leptin production will follow, soon it will be no problem.

    Additionally these hormones can be affected by- exercise, sleep, weight, body fat, menstruation, etc.

    Lastly, the idea that "only eating when you're hungry" has another fatal flaw. It DOES NOT take into account WHAT you are eating. You're hungry and you're going to eat some cheesecake and a bacon ranch cheeseburger until you're no longer hungry? You may have just gone over your calories. You aren't very hungry as your leptin is low so you only ate two meals that totalled 700 calories for the day?

    Do you see what i'm getting at? These hormones directly affect your hunger satiety and are not an accurate representation of your nutritional needs. Every been on your period and been RAVENOUS? Ever work out really hard and be RAVENOUS? Ever completely lose hunger when you first start cutting calories?

    This is my point. Please feel free to look this up in medical journals or read studies. These are facts and NOT "my opinion".
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
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    Just figured i would chime in here... intuitive eating does not work and is a terrible way to base your eating habits off of.

    Please do some more research. :)

    What?! Of course it does. If you can't do it quit bashing others that can.

    Again, figured i would clarify i ABSOLUTELY could... I just understand the reasoning behind why i SHOULDN'T.
  • stephanieb72
    stephanieb72 Posts: 390 Member
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    Just figured i would chime in here... intuitive eating does not work and is a terrible way to base your eating habits off of.

    Please do some more research. :)

    What?! Of course it does. If you can't do it quit bashing others that can.

    Again, figured i would clarify i ABSOLUTELY could... I just understand the reasoning behind why i SHOULDN'T.

    please do explain why... I am actually curious to know why this would be a bad thing to do.

    EDIT--- nevermined I see previous post....
  • stephanieb72
    stephanieb72 Posts: 390 Member
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    maybe I misunderstood the original post but I took the book to be more of a lesson in eating when your body needs food and NOT eating when you are mad, stressed, tired, bored or because everybody else is eating.

    OP, is that correct? I guess I am doing something wrong because I try to only eat when my tummy growls and I know I am and should be hungry.
  • angiechimpanzee
    angiechimpanzee Posts: 536 Member
    Options
    Sorry, I was out of touch for a while. I didn't just come in here and "bash" because clearly i stated that it is wrong. To understand why it's wrong you need to understand WHY you feel hungry and the way that your body works. Hunger and Satiety are controlled by two hormones called Leptin and Ghrelin.

    Leptin is the hormone in your body that regulates hunger. Leptin production follows caloric intake: if you restrict calories, your Leptin production will decrease and you will feel less hungry. This is how anorexics can eat 800 calories a day and not feel hungry. If you eat more, your Leptin production will increase, and you will feel more hungry.

    Because you are restricting calories, your Leptin production is out of whack; meaning, DO NOT listen to your body about how much/when to eat. Get your calories in and your Leptin production will follow, soon it will be no problem.

    Additionally these hormones can be affected by- exercise, sleep, weight, body fat, menstruation, etc.

    Lastly, the idea that "only eating when you're hungry" has another fatal flaw. It DOES NOT take into account WHAT you are eating. You're hungry and you're going to eat some cheesecake and a bacon ranch cheeseburger until you're no longer hungry? You may have just gone over your calories. You aren't very hungry as your leptin is low so you only ate two meals that totalled 700 calories for the day?

    Do you see what i'm getting at? These hormones directly affect your hunger satiety and are not an accurate representation of your nutritional needs. Every been on your period and been RAVENOUS? Ever work out really hard and be RAVENOUS? Ever completely lose hunger when you first start cutting calories?

    This is my point. Please feel free to look this up in medical journals or read studies. These are facts and NOT "my opinion".
    Those hormones vary depending on certain situations, that's true. But that's all part of intuitive eating as well, because that's all a normal part of life (minus eating disorders and prolonged dieting, but those issues CAN and HAVE been remedied). MOST people who are overweight become so because they don't know what real hunger feels like, or what a reasonably full stomach feels like, or they do know but just ignore it because they want to eat more for other reasons like stress or leisure or boredom or because they feel as if they must clean their plate, so they eat in excess. If someone eats till they're satisfied after a workout, they likely will not gain weight. I can't speak for all girls, but when I'm unusually hungry because of my period alone, I do not eat more than I need UNLESS I'm emotionally eating, and that's not intuitive eating. And the "lost" hunger at the beginning of calorie cutting always comes back anyway, with a vengeance.

    About your cheesecake & bacon ranch cheeseburger statement, here's the thing. If you're really paying attention to your BODY, not your brain, not your cravings, but your physical well being & your stomach, cheesecake & a bacon ranch cheeseburger will NOT be what you want all the time. The book talks about trying a variety of foods, healthy and unhealthy, to broaden your horizon of food options. Of course a person who lives off junk food won't be able to do intuitive eating right away because they only know junk food. But allow them to actually get physically hungry, then introduce to them fruits & vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins, etc, and chances are they'll learn to love at least half of those new foods as well as how the new foods make them feel, and they'll become more likely to choose from those too when they're hungry.

    Key word is HUNGRY. Listening to your brain say "I've had a tough day at work. Sitting down with a pile of cookies and some milk would be great right now" is NOT intuitive eating. Going to McDonalds, ordering a big mac and large fries, and forcing down the entire thing even though you were only somewhat hungry to begin with, isnt intuitive eating. Letting yourself get to the point of moderate hunger (tummy rumbling, slight decrease in energy), then choosing a combination of foods that you enjoy AND make you feel good as well - turkey sandwich on whole wheat with a handful of nuts and maybe a cookie or something - and then stopping when you notice your stomach is full - EVEN IF you still have 1/3 of your sandwich & a few nuts left - and taking the time to notice how energized & physically good you feel after that meal vs. the mcdonalds one - THAT is intuitive eating.

    Yes hormones play a part but not nearly as large a part as people just not knowing when & how much to eat, or what real hunger even is. People have been able to maintain healthy weights far before the hormones you speak of were ever discovered or studied. And it's because those people know when to start eating, how much to eat, and when to stop. And they don't use food for anything else.
  • meeper123
    meeper123 Posts: 3,347 Member
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    What a great post this makes a hell of a lot of sense i am really going to try this see how it works thanks for posting this
  • angiechimpanzee
    angiechimpanzee Posts: 536 Member
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    maybe I misunderstood the original post but I took the book to be more of a lesson in eating when your body needs food and NOT eating when you are mad, stressed, tired, bored or because everybody else is eating.

    OP, is that correct? I guess I am doing something wrong because I try to only eat when my tummy growls and I know I am and should be hungry.
    Yes, that is correct. You aren't doing anything wrong lol.
  • merwright
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    oh my gosh! that is some real wisdom!
    ___________________________________________________________________________
    new yoga: www.squidoo.com/what-are-the-best-mens-womens-beginners-yoga-dvds
  • smantha32
    smantha32 Posts: 6,990 Member
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    4. Stop when you are no longer physically hungry, no matter how much food is or is not left on your plate.

    I don't have trouble with the eating when hungry issue. I recognize my hunger. Mine is #4, the stopping issue. My brain wants to eat it all until it's gone.
  • etoiles_argentees
    etoiles_argentees Posts: 2,827 Member
    Options
    Sorry, I was out of touch for a while. I didn't just come in here and "bash" because clearly i stated that it is wrong. To understand why it's wrong you need to understand WHY you feel hungry and the way that your body works. Hunger and Satiety are controlled by two hormones called Leptin and Ghrelin.

    Leptin is the hormone in your body that regulates hunger. Leptin production follows caloric intake: if you restrict calories, your Leptin production will decrease and you will feel less hungry. This is how anorexics can eat 800 calories a day and not feel hungry. If you eat more, your Leptin production will increase, and you will feel more hungry.

    Because you are restricting calories, your Leptin production is out of whack; meaning, DO NOT listen to your body about how much/when to eat. Get your calories in and your Leptin production will follow, soon it will be no problem.

    Additionally these hormones can be affected by- exercise, sleep, weight, body fat, menstruation, etc.

    Lastly, the idea that "only eating when you're hungry" has another fatal flaw. It DOES NOT take into account WHAT you are eating. You're hungry and you're going to eat some cheesecake and a bacon ranch cheeseburger until you're no longer hungry? You may have just gone over your calories. You aren't very hungry as your leptin is low so you only ate two meals that totalled 700 calories for the day?

    Do you see what i'm getting at? These hormones directly affect your hunger satiety and are not an accurate representation of your nutritional needs. Every been on your period and been RAVENOUS? Ever work out really hard and be RAVENOUS? Ever completely lose hunger when you first start cutting calories?

    This is my point. Please feel free to look this up in medical journals or read studies. These are facts and NOT "my opinion".

    That's not how it works, there are many more hormones involved. Start here-
    Physiology & Behavior
    Volume 81, Issue 5, July 2004, Pages 719–733

    Proceedings from the 2003 Meeting of the Society for the Study of Ingestive Behavior (SSIB)


    Endocrine controls of eating: CCK, leptin, and ghrelin
    Nori Geary,
    E.W. Bourne Laboratory, Weill Medical College of Cornell University, White Plains, NY 10506, USA
    http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.physbeh.2004.04.013, How to Cite or Link Using DOI

    Abstract
    The peripheral physiological and central nervous mechanisms contributing to the control of eating present formidable challenges to experimental analysis. One of the most productive approaches to these challenges has been endocrinological. This review introduces the endocrine control of eating by considering three hormonal signals that have been hypothesized to control hunger or satiation, cholecystokinin CCK, leptin, and ghrelin. The roles of these molecules in humans and in rodents are considered against a set of criteria established in classical endocrinology for establishing physiological endocrine action. It is concluded that according to these criteria, CCK's satiating action in humans is the best-established physiological endocrine action. In contrast, support for endocrine actions of leptin in satiation and of ghrelin in hunger is incomplete, and areas urgently requiring further research are identified. Finally, a review of work on these three hormones suggests the utility of a new conceptual scheme for understanding the endocrine control of eating. This scheme distinguishes between endocrine, in which the stimuli for hormonal secretion and the effect of secretion on eating are tightly coupled, and endocrine effects, in which one or both of these links is uncoupled. The implications of this concept for research design and interpretation of data are discussed.

    A vast literature links endocrine systems to the control of eating behavior [Geary, N. Hunger and satiation. In: Martini, L., ed. Encyclopedia of endocrine diseases. San Diego, CA: Academic Press, 2004, in press.]. This is fortunate for ingestive science. Endocrinology is a well-developed discipline with an impressive armamentarium of intellectual and technical tools. In contrast, ingestive science, i.e., the study of eating, drinking, and drug use, is at a more rudimentary stage of development. My general thesis here is that the adaptation and application of some of the well-accepted intellectual tools of endocrinology is likely to accelerate progress in ingestive science.

    The organization of the review is threefold. First, the treatment of endocrine controls of eating is selective. Just three hormones, CCK, leptin, and ghrelin, are considered. It is not clear that these are the three most important endocrine controls of eating, but they are each certainly interesting candidates, and comparisons among them are instructive. Second, I argue for the utility of the application of classical endocrine criteria for the identification of physiological effects of hormones, as adapted to eating behavior. This is done by introducing these criteria, considering each hormone's status with respect to them, and identifying the areas where relevant evidence is currently available or is lacking. Third, I argue for the utility of making explicit the distinction between endocrine actions, in which the stimuli for hormonal secretion and the effect of secretion on eating are tightly coupled, and endocrine actions, in which these links are uncoupled. This concept is assembled inductively in the course of the review.

    Keywords
    Endocrine controls; CCK; Leptin; Ghrelin
    Figures and tables from this article:


    Fig. 1. Endocrine action of CCK on gall bladder contraction in humans. Top panel: Ingestion of a meal elicits an increase in plasma CCK concentration and is associated with the contraction of the gall bladder. Middle panel: Intravenous infusion of 0.2 pMol/kg/min CCK-8 mimics the initial prandial increase in plasma CCK and is sufficient to produce normal prandial gall bladder contraction in men. Bottom panel: Oral administration of 10 mg of the CCK1R antagonist devazepide during the meal prevents prandial gall bladder contraction. Upper and middle panels are from Ref. [52]; lower panel is from Ref. [51]; used with permission.
    Figure options

    Fig. 2. The CCK1R antagonist loxiglumide antagonizes the satiation action of endogenous CCK in humans. Top panel: Loxiglumide blocks the satiating action of endogenous CCK stimulated by intraduodenal infusion of fat emulsion. Normal-weight adult males began a noontime lunch buffet 4 h after a standard breakfast, 90 min after beginning an intravenous infusion of loxiglumide (10 μmol/kg-h) or saline, 60 min after an intraduodenal infusion of corn oil or saline (0.4 ml/min), and 20 min after an oral preload of 400 ml of a low-fat banana milkshake. The infusions were continued throughout the meal. Intraduodenal fat infusion significantly reduced the size of the lunch meal (expressed as total energy content of the various foods) without producing physical or subjective side effects, and this inhibition of eating was reversed by loxiglumide infusion. Bottom panel: Loxiglumide stimulates eating. Normal-weight adult males began a noontime lunch buffet 4 h after a standard breakfast and 60 min after beginning an intravenous infusion of loxiglumide (22 μmol/kg-h) or saline. Infusions were continued throughout the meal. Loxiglumide significantly increased meal size without affecting the participants' enjoyment of their meals or their subjective sense of normal satiation. Upper panel is from Ref. [57]; lower panel is from Ref. [10]; used with permission.
    Figure options

    Fig. 3. Superior pancreaticoduodenal (SPD) artery injection of the CCK1R antagonist devazepide stimulates eating in rats at doses that are ineffective when infused via the jugular vein (intraventricular). Injections were done immediately before the 15-min access to 30% sucrose solutions after a 6-h food deprivation during the light phase. The superior pancreaticoduodenal artery perfuses the pyloric region of the stomach and the proximal small intestine. From Ref. [18], used with permission.
    Figure options

    Fig. 4. Endocrine controls may be considered to function through a chain of two stimulus–response links. In the first link, a stimulus for hormone secretion is linked to hormone secretion. In the second link, hormone secretion is the stimulus and eating is the response. Each of these links can be considered tightly coupled (top panel, filled arrows) or uncoupled (bottom panel, unfilled arrows). The first link is coupled when there are discrete, highly time-locked causal physiological cascades between the stimulus for hormone secretion and secretion. Similarly, the second link is coupled when there is a time-locked causal physiological cascade between changed plasma hormone levels and hunger, satiation, or another parameter of eating. In a fully coupled endocrine control of eating, both links are coupled; in an uncoupled endocrine control, one or both links is uncoupled. As explained in the text, CCK satiation is apparently fully coupled, whereas leptin satiation and ghrelin secretion appear uncoupled.
    Figure options

    Fig. 5. Circadian rhythms of (top panel) serum leptin concentration (expressed as percent change from the 0800-h fasting level of 12.0±4.4 ng/ml), (middle panel) insulin (μU/ml), and (bottom panel) glucose (mg/dl). Note that meals, indicated by arrows in the x axis of the bottom panel, clearly affect insulin and glucose concentrations but do not affect leptin concentration. Data are from normal-weight men and women. The leptin pattern shown was similar in obese participants (BMI 38.8±2.5 kg/m2), but the 0800-h leptin level was significantly elevated (41.7±9.0 ng/ml). From Ref. [76], used with permission.
    Figure options

    Fig. 6. Linear relationships between plasma leptin concentration (ng/ml) and body fat mass (kg, measured by hydrodensitometry) in men (aged 19–41 years) and premenopausal (aged 19–45 years) and postmenopausal women (aged 49–87 years). Regression coefficients were .99, .95, and .92 in the three groups, respectively (all Ps<.0001). From Ref. [74], used with permission.
    Figure options

    Fig. 7. Intracerebroventricular injection of rabbit antimouse leptin antibodies increases food intake in rats. Filled symbols are cumulative food intake after injection with 10 μl preimmune IgG, and open symbols are cumulative food intakes following injection of 10 μl antileptin IgG (mean±S.E.M.). This dose of leptin antibodies has an in vitro binding capacity of about 1 ng rat leptin. The number of rats tested in each condition is represented by n. *Significant difference. From Ref. [15], used with permission.
    Figure options

    Fig. 8. Circadian rhythms of plasma ghrelin (pg/ml) in men and women who were either normal weight (BMI 27.3±0.9 kg/m2) or similarly obese who had lost weight either by dieting (matched obese controls; present BMI 40.0±3.9 kg/m2, initial BMI 48.2±5.2 kg/m2) or after gastric bypass surgery (present BMI 43.5±6.0 kg/m2, initial BMI 68.0±7.8 mg/m2). Note that (1) ghrelin levels increase progressively prior to meals and decrease after meals, (2) ghrelin also increases during the evening before decreasing during the early morning hours, and (3) ghrelin levels are greater in normal-weight than in obese participants. From Ref. [19], used with permission.
    Figure options

    Fig. 9. Surgical abdominal vagotomy (top panel) and abdominal deafferentation by perivagal capsaicin injection (bottom panel) each block the stimulatory effect on eating of intravenously infused ghrelin in rats. Controls are intact rats; open bars are saline injections; filled bars are ghrelin injections. These vagal lesions had no effect on the stimulatory effect of intracerebroventriculalry administered ghrelin (data not shown). *Significant difference. From Ref. [20], used with permission.
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    Fig. 10. Intracerebroventricular injection of rabbit antirat ghrelin antibodies decreases food intake in rats. Open bars are food intake after injection with 10 μl preimmune IgG, and closed bars are intakes following injection of 10 μl antighrelin IgG (mean±S.E.M.). Top panel: 2-h food intakes in rats tested after an 8-h fast. Bottom panel: 12-h dark-phase food intakes in free-feeding rats injected at the beginning of the dark. *Significant decrease in food intake, P<.005, **P<.0001. From Ref. [65], used with permission.
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    Options
    No no, i do realize that. I'm simply saying that your body's "hunger" response is not indicitive of your nutritional and caloric needs.

    Sorry, I was out of touch for a while. I didn't just come in here and "bash" because clearly i stated that it is wrong. To understand why it's wrong you need to understand WHY you feel hungry and the way that your body works. Hunger and Satiety are controlled by two hormones called Leptin and Ghrelin.

    Leptin is the hormone in your body that regulates hunger. Leptin production follows caloric intake: if you restrict calories, your Leptin production will decrease and you will feel less hungry. This is how anorexics can eat 800 calories a day and not feel hungry. If you eat more, your Leptin production will increase, and you will feel more hungry.

    Because you are restricting calories, your Leptin production is out of whack; meaning, DO NOT listen to your body about how much/when to eat. Get your calories in and your Leptin production will follow, soon it will be no problem.

    Additionally these hormones can be affected by- exercise, sleep, weight, body fat, menstruation, etc.

    Lastly, the idea that "only eating when you're hungry" has another fatal flaw. It DOES NOT take into account WHAT you are eating. You're hungry and you're going to eat some cheesecake and a bacon ranch cheeseburger until you're no longer hungry? You may have just gone over your calories. You aren't very hungry as your leptin is low so you only ate two meals that totalled 700 calories for the day?

    Do you see what i'm getting at? These hormones directly affect your hunger satiety and are not an accurate representation of your nutritional needs. Every been on your period and been RAVENOUS? Ever work out really hard and be RAVENOUS? Ever completely lose hunger when you first start cutting calories?

    This is my point. Please feel free to look this up in medical journals or read studies. These are facts and NOT "my opinion".

    That's not how it works, there are many more hormones involved. Start here-
    Physiology & Behavior
    Volume 81, Issue 5, July 2004, Pages 719–733

    Proceedings from the 2003 Meeting of the Society for the Study of Ingestive Behavior (SSIB)


    Endocrine controls of eating: CCK, leptin, and ghrelin
    Nori Geary,
    E.W. Bourne Laboratory, Weill Medical College of Cornell University, White Plains, NY 10506, USA
    http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.physbeh.2004.04.013, How to Cite or Link Using DOI

    Abstract
    The peripheral physiological and central nervous mechanisms contributing to the control of eating present formidable challenges to experimental analysis. One of the most productive approaches to these challenges has been endocrinological. This review introduces the endocrine control of eating by considering three hormonal signals that have been hypothesized to control hunger or satiation, cholecystokinin CCK, leptin, and ghrelin. The roles of these molecules in humans and in rodents are considered against a set of criteria established in classical endocrinology for establishing physiological endocrine action. It is concluded that according to these criteria, CCK's satiating action in humans is the best-established physiological endocrine action. In contrast, support for endocrine actions of leptin in satiation and of ghrelin in hunger is incomplete, and areas urgently requiring further research are identified. Finally, a review of work on these three hormones suggests the utility of a new conceptual scheme for understanding the endocrine control of eating. This scheme distinguishes between endocrine, in which the stimuli for hormonal secretion and the effect of secretion on eating are tightly coupled, and endocrine effects, in which one or both of these links is uncoupled. The implications of this concept for research design and interpretation of data are discussed.

    A vast literature links endocrine systems to the control of eating behavior [Geary, N. Hunger and satiation. In: Martini, L., ed. Encyclopedia of endocrine diseases. San Diego, CA: Academic Press, 2004, in press.]. This is fortunate for ingestive science. Endocrinology is a well-developed discipline with an impressive armamentarium of intellectual and technical tools. In contrast, ingestive science, i.e., the study of eating, drinking, and drug use, is at a more rudimentary stage of development. My general thesis here is that the adaptation and application of some of the well-accepted intellectual tools of endocrinology is likely to accelerate progress in ingestive science.

    The organization of the review is threefold. First, the treatment of endocrine controls of eating is selective. Just three hormones, CCK, leptin, and ghrelin, are considered. It is not clear that these are the three most important endocrine controls of eating, but they are each certainly interesting candidates, and comparisons among them are instructive. Second, I argue for the utility of the application of classical endocrine criteria for the identification of physiological effects of hormones, as adapted to eating behavior. This is done by introducing these criteria, considering each hormone's status with respect to them, and identifying the areas where relevant evidence is currently available or is lacking. Third, I argue for the utility of making explicit the distinction between endocrine actions, in which the stimuli for hormonal secretion and the effect of secretion on eating are tightly coupled, and endocrine actions, in which these links are uncoupled. This concept is assembled inductively in the course of the review.

    Keywords
    Endocrine controls; CCK; Leptin; Ghrelin
    Figures and tables from this article:


    Fig. 1. Endocrine action of CCK on gall bladder contraction in humans. Top panel: Ingestion of a meal elicits an increase in plasma CCK concentration and is associated with the contraction of the gall bladder. Middle panel: Intravenous infusion of 0.2 pMol/kg/min CCK-8 mimics the initial prandial increase in plasma CCK and is sufficient to produce normal prandial gall bladder contraction in men. Bottom panel: Oral administration of 10 mg of the CCK1R antagonist devazepide during the meal prevents prandial gall bladder contraction. Upper and middle panels are from Ref. [52]; lower panel is from Ref. [51]; used with permission.
    Figure options

    Fig. 2. The CCK1R antagonist loxiglumide antagonizes the satiation action of endogenous CCK in humans. Top panel: Loxiglumide blocks the satiating action of endogenous CCK stimulated by intraduodenal infusion of fat emulsion. Normal-weight adult males began a noontime lunch buffet 4 h after a standard breakfast, 90 min after beginning an intravenous infusion of loxiglumide (10 μmol/kg-h) or saline, 60 min after an intraduodenal infusion of corn oil or saline (0.4 ml/min), and 20 min after an oral preload of 400 ml of a low-fat banana milkshake. The infusions were continued throughout the meal. Intraduodenal fat infusion significantly reduced the size of the lunch meal (expressed as total energy content of the various foods) without producing physical or subjective side effects, and this inhibition of eating was reversed by loxiglumide infusion. Bottom panel: Loxiglumide stimulates eating. Normal-weight adult males began a noontime lunch buffet 4 h after a standard breakfast and 60 min after beginning an intravenous infusion of loxiglumide (22 μmol/kg-h) or saline. Infusions were continued throughout the meal. Loxiglumide significantly increased meal size without affecting the participants' enjoyment of their meals or their subjective sense of normal satiation. Upper panel is from Ref. [57]; lower panel is from Ref. [10]; used with permission.
    Figure options

    Fig. 3. Superior pancreaticoduodenal (SPD) artery injection of the CCK1R antagonist devazepide stimulates eating in rats at doses that are ineffective when infused via the jugular vein (intraventricular). Injections were done immediately before the 15-min access to 30% sucrose solutions after a 6-h food deprivation during the light phase. The superior pancreaticoduodenal artery perfuses the pyloric region of the stomach and the proximal small intestine. From Ref. [18], used with permission.
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    Fig. 4. Endocrine controls may be considered to function through a chain of two stimulus–response links. In the first link, a stimulus for hormone secretion is linked to hormone secretion. In the second link, hormone secretion is the stimulus and eating is the response. Each of these links can be considered tightly coupled (top panel, filled arrows) or uncoupled (bottom panel, unfilled arrows). The first link is coupled when there are discrete, highly time-locked causal physiological cascades between the stimulus for hormone secretion and secretion. Similarly, the second link is coupled when there is a time-locked causal physiological cascade between changed plasma hormone levels and hunger, satiation, or another parameter of eating. In a fully coupled endocrine control of eating, both links are coupled; in an uncoupled endocrine control, one or both links is uncoupled. As explained in the text, CCK satiation is apparently fully coupled, whereas leptin satiation and ghrelin secretion appear uncoupled.
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    Fig. 5. Circadian rhythms of (top panel) serum leptin concentration (expressed as percent change from the 0800-h fasting level of 12.0±4.4 ng/ml), (middle panel) insulin (μU/ml), and (bottom panel) glucose (mg/dl). Note that meals, indicated by arrows in the x axis of the bottom panel, clearly affect insulin and glucose concentrations but do not affect leptin concentration. Data are from normal-weight men and women. The leptin pattern shown was similar in obese participants (BMI 38.8±2.5 kg/m2), but the 0800-h leptin level was significantly elevated (41.7±9.0 ng/ml). From Ref. [76], used with permission.
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    Fig. 6. Linear relationships between plasma leptin concentration (ng/ml) and body fat mass (kg, measured by hydrodensitometry) in men (aged 19–41 years) and premenopausal (aged 19–45 years) and postmenopausal women (aged 49–87 years). Regression coefficients were .99, .95, and .92 in the three groups, respectively (all Ps<.0001). From Ref. [74], used with permission.
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    Fig. 7. Intracerebroventricular injection of rabbit antimouse leptin antibodies increases food intake in rats. Filled symbols are cumulative food intake after injection with 10 μl preimmune IgG, and open symbols are cumulative food intakes following injection of 10 μl antileptin IgG (mean±S.E.M.). This dose of leptin antibodies has an in vitro binding capacity of about 1 ng rat leptin. The number of rats tested in each condition is represented by n. *Significant difference. From Ref. [15], used with permission.
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    Fig. 8. Circadian rhythms of plasma ghrelin (pg/ml) in men and women who were either normal weight (BMI 27.3±0.9 kg/m2) or similarly obese who had lost weight either by dieting (matched obese controls; present BMI 40.0±3.9 kg/m2, initial BMI 48.2±5.2 kg/m2) or after gastric bypass surgery (present BMI 43.5±6.0 kg/m2, initial BMI 68.0±7.8 mg/m2). Note that (1) ghrelin levels increase progressively prior to meals and decrease after meals, (2) ghrelin also increases during the evening before decreasing during the early morning hours, and (3) ghrelin levels are greater in normal-weight than in obese participants. From Ref. [19], used with permission.
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    Fig. 9. Surgical abdominal vagotomy (top panel) and abdominal deafferentation by perivagal capsaicin injection (bottom panel) each block the stimulatory effect on eating of intravenously infused ghrelin in rats. Controls are intact rats; open bars are saline injections; filled bars are ghrelin injections. These vagal lesions had no effect on the stimulatory effect of intracerebroventriculalry administered ghrelin (data not shown). *Significant difference. From Ref. [20], used with permission.
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    Fig. 10. Intracerebroventricular injection of rabbit antirat ghrelin antibodies decreases food intake in rats. Open bars are food intake after injection with 10 μl preimmune IgG, and closed bars are intakes following injection of 10 μl antighrelin IgG (mean±S.E.M.). Top panel: 2-h food intakes in rats tested after an 8-h fast. Bottom panel: 12-h dark-phase food intakes in free-feeding rats injected at the beginning of the dark. *Significant decrease in food intake, P<.005, **P<.0001. From Ref. [65], used with permission.
  • Microfiber
    Microfiber Posts: 956 Member
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    My question is, if we are going to follow the "rules" of this book for instance, then do we still need MFP? I mean, do we still need to log and/or keep within a certain calorie a day?
  • 5ftnFun
    5ftnFun Posts: 948 Member
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    The OP has obviously done her homework and has put thought into what she posted. Bravo! Now, whether everyone agrees with it, well, to each his/her own. This style of eating can work for some people, maybe not for others.

    There are a number of books like this out there. One I read years ago was "Intuitive Eating: A Revolutionary Program that Works" by Evelyn Tribole, M.S. R.D. and Elyse Resch, M.S., R.D. F.A.D.A. It is an easy read and I recommend it to anyone interested in reading more on this topic.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,867 Member
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    I think that being able to eat intuitively should be the goal...I believe I am almost there; that said, I've had to take about 6 months to re-teach myself how to eat intuitively and not just eat something because it's out. I've had to re-learn how to not over stuff myself and re-learn what satiated feels like. I've had to re-learn what a portion looks like and learn about proper nutrition in order that I'm giving my body everything it needs...not too much, not too little.

    So, while I think the idea behind intuitive eating is something that we should all strive to accomplish (I certainly don't want to count calories forever)...for many, they must re-learn a lot of things before it can actually be put into practice. I used to think I ate intuitively and...well...pretty much ate everything in sight ('cuz I was hungry) and put on a good 50 Lbs.

    Just sayin' be careful...this has pitfalls just like anything else, and isn't magic. The book is a great read though
  • GThibz
    GThibz Posts: 25 Member
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    interesting
  • LavenderBouquet
    LavenderBouquet Posts: 736 Member
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    Just figured i would chime in here... intuitive eating does not work and is a terrible way to base your eating habits off of.

    Please do some more research. :)

    I disagree based on the fact that the term calorie didn't even exist until around 150 years ago. Humans were somehow able to stay slim with almost no thought into their diet, which means, they ate when they were hungry. It's all about what you are eating, if you eat the "right" kinds of healthy foods meant for your body, it shouldn't be a problem to maintain a healthy weight. I don't suggest that I know exactly what these right foods are, but I would highly lean towards whole, unprocessed, natural foods.

    EDIT: I see now that you did clarify your opinion further. Probably should have included more depth to your post in the first place to avoid backlash.