IF, Keto, and Total Calorie Intake - Could use some help
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brillmer
Posts: 1,268 Member
Hiyoooooooooo,
My name is Daniel.. And this is my story/background before I get to my question.
I have been eating healthy, monitoring calorie intake via MFP for about 8 months in total now.
In the first 4-5 months, I lost about 40-50 pounds strictly from changing my eating habits and cutting out all the crap.
I cut out all junk food, processed carbs/refined carbs, sugars, snacks etc... and replaced it with lots of lean protein, veggies, and complex carbohydrates. I had went from 240 pounds to 190 pounds.
In January, I started working out at the gym doing a basic split. Chest/tris, back/biceps, legs, abs etc.. and cardio at least a few times a week.
From the beginning of January to the end of February I was stuck at 190.
I decided to start intermittent fasting at the beginning of March to see if it would change anything. I also began doing the stronglift 5x5 workout.. 3x a week (M/W/F, focusing on the major compound lifts - squats, chest press, barbell rows, overhead press and deadlift).
I started losing again, and within about 3 weeks I was down to 180. I was very happy with the results, and very much enjoyed intermittent fasting. I would stop eating every day at around 6/7/8pm, and start eating the next morning, AFTER A WORKOUT, at approximately 10am/11am/12pm. This forced me to stop eating unnecessary calories late at night while watching my sports/tv shows.
On March 25th, it was the Jewish holiday passover. During this holiday, you basically aren't allowed to eat wheat products.
I thought this would be a great time for me to start keto, as I always wanted to try it.
For the last few weeks now, I have been doing a combination of IF/keto. I am at the lowest I've ever been in my life, 170.
My concern however, is my overall calorie intake. The number I have set for myself is around 2000 calories per day. My goal, is still to lose weight. I lift 3 times a week, and try to do some sort of cardio at least 3 times a week as well.
My problem is I am having a difficult time meeting my total calories. A lot of the time I am finding my number closer to 1500 calories.. and sometimes after a workout.. even closer to 1000 or 1200 calories.
I know this isn't enough, but I am not starving by any means. My goal is still to lose weight, so I am wondering if what I am doing is kind of counter productive..?
During my 6-8 hour eating window I usually eat the following:
9am, post workout, 2-4 free range eggs and 2-3 pieces of turkey bacon cooked in a bit of olive oil or coconut oil as my breakfast
11am, at work, A protein shake with 2 cups of unsweetened almond milk, 2 scoops of whey protein, flax seed, coconut oil, 1/2 cup of berries or natural peanut butter
2-3pm, at work, A gigantic salad with spinach, peppers, cucumbers, brocolli, and lots of protein (usually chicken breast)
4-5pm Maybe another protein shake with literally just protein and water. Literally forcing this down to get extra calories, even though I am full.
Next thing I know, its 5-6pm, my eating window is done, im not hungry at all, and I haven't ingested anywhere near the amount of calories that I should.
Is this bad for me? Should I just start bringing almonds / more protein to work and just forcing myself to have more shakes/calories?
Hope someone can shed some light on this...
Daniel.
Please feel free to ask any questions if something is unclear.
My name is Daniel.. And this is my story/background before I get to my question.
I have been eating healthy, monitoring calorie intake via MFP for about 8 months in total now.
In the first 4-5 months, I lost about 40-50 pounds strictly from changing my eating habits and cutting out all the crap.
I cut out all junk food, processed carbs/refined carbs, sugars, snacks etc... and replaced it with lots of lean protein, veggies, and complex carbohydrates. I had went from 240 pounds to 190 pounds.
In January, I started working out at the gym doing a basic split. Chest/tris, back/biceps, legs, abs etc.. and cardio at least a few times a week.
From the beginning of January to the end of February I was stuck at 190.
I decided to start intermittent fasting at the beginning of March to see if it would change anything. I also began doing the stronglift 5x5 workout.. 3x a week (M/W/F, focusing on the major compound lifts - squats, chest press, barbell rows, overhead press and deadlift).
I started losing again, and within about 3 weeks I was down to 180. I was very happy with the results, and very much enjoyed intermittent fasting. I would stop eating every day at around 6/7/8pm, and start eating the next morning, AFTER A WORKOUT, at approximately 10am/11am/12pm. This forced me to stop eating unnecessary calories late at night while watching my sports/tv shows.
On March 25th, it was the Jewish holiday passover. During this holiday, you basically aren't allowed to eat wheat products.
I thought this would be a great time for me to start keto, as I always wanted to try it.
For the last few weeks now, I have been doing a combination of IF/keto. I am at the lowest I've ever been in my life, 170.
My concern however, is my overall calorie intake. The number I have set for myself is around 2000 calories per day. My goal, is still to lose weight. I lift 3 times a week, and try to do some sort of cardio at least 3 times a week as well.
My problem is I am having a difficult time meeting my total calories. A lot of the time I am finding my number closer to 1500 calories.. and sometimes after a workout.. even closer to 1000 or 1200 calories.
I know this isn't enough, but I am not starving by any means. My goal is still to lose weight, so I am wondering if what I am doing is kind of counter productive..?
During my 6-8 hour eating window I usually eat the following:
9am, post workout, 2-4 free range eggs and 2-3 pieces of turkey bacon cooked in a bit of olive oil or coconut oil as my breakfast
11am, at work, A protein shake with 2 cups of unsweetened almond milk, 2 scoops of whey protein, flax seed, coconut oil, 1/2 cup of berries or natural peanut butter
2-3pm, at work, A gigantic salad with spinach, peppers, cucumbers, brocolli, and lots of protein (usually chicken breast)
4-5pm Maybe another protein shake with literally just protein and water. Literally forcing this down to get extra calories, even though I am full.
Next thing I know, its 5-6pm, my eating window is done, im not hungry at all, and I haven't ingested anywhere near the amount of calories that I should.
Is this bad for me? Should I just start bringing almonds / more protein to work and just forcing myself to have more shakes/calories?
Hope someone can shed some light on this...
Daniel.
Please feel free to ask any questions if something is unclear.
0
Replies
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Hi Daniel,
I'm not sure if I am very qualified yet to answer your questions. But I just wanted to reply to let you know that there are Keto peeps out there. I am a firm believer of Ketogenic diet. I have been very successful in the past, but after a long stressful life of personal problems, I am finally able to get back on track and get going again.
I am finding a similar problem...in that I eat and eat and feel full but I am not meeting the calorie expectation. I rarely get up to my full calories each day. Maybe if we keep this thread going and keep talking about it, someone will come up with the answers. I know there are some good recipes online that combine vegetables, fat and protein. I have fallen in love with quite a few of the recipes.
Brenda0 -
Hi Daniel,
I also do Keto/IF. I don’t lift but I run 30-35 miles week. Normally my rule of thumb is go by how your body feels, but in your case I would say you’re not eating enough calories. If you can’t eat more in volume because you’re just not hungry then I would suggest you eat more calorie dense. Eat regular bacon instead of turkey bacon. Add more oil to your salad or smoothies if you can. Have tea or decaf coffee with a tablespoon of coconut oil in it. Hell, if you have to (and can handle it) eat a tablespoon of coconut oil straight.
In my not-so-distant past, I too did not eat enough calories for the same reason. I felt okay for a couple of weeks but then it started to affect my energy levels and weight loss slowed (even though I was pushing myself to keep up with my running). I eventually upped my calories by 300-400 (while still maintaining a calorie deficit) and I started to feel better (it only took 2-3 extra tablespoons of healthy oils). This is just my experience, but regardless, it still looks like your calories are too low (especially since you’re working out).0 -
Keep in mind that you dont just get calories from the food you eat but also from the fat you burn. When your body needs more cals it will tell you.0
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Pick a new diet or eat more nuts, nut butters, ice cream, full fat dairy, fatty cuts of meat etc0
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As above too. Hit the cheese!0
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I personally don't think keto diets are sustainable long term. People will argue the point since they are losing weight, but, in reality, it's just not fat being lost. You will lose muscle on a keto diet since your body will not use all it's energy from fat and will turn to using some protein to create glucose.0
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Just thinking back when I was early keto I only felt like eating about 1200 cals per day and had too much energy. After about 8 weeks that changed and I knew I needed more. As said though if in doubt throw in some dense foods such as nuts cheeses etc. Anything fatty packs a lot of cals per g0
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Not if you do it right! But I agree its not forever you need to phase across into a sensible whole food diet eventually.I personally don't think keto diets are sustainable long term. People will argue the point since they are losing weight, but, in reality, it's just not fat being lost. You will lose muscle on a keto diet since your body will not use all it's energy from fat and will turn to using some protein to create glucose.0 -
Thanks for your input.
I have definitely tried adding oils over the last few days to up my calorie intake as I was realizing that my numbers were low. An extra tbsp of coconut oil in each shake and other oils in my salads etc.
The problem with eating stuff like cheese is I am not supposed to be eating dairy. I have chronic sinusitis and apparently dairy only makes sinuses worse.. So I am trying to stay away from that kind of stuff.
I can't imagine it would be a problem to add extra fats/oils into some of my foods, but my main concern is whether or not this is detrimental to my weight loss.. even if I am at.. Let's say around 1500 calories net on a workout day (which is seeming what today will be like.. im at 1250 calories so far.. eating some almonds now.. going to have a salad with chicken for lunch... but will be burning at least 300+ calories after my workout)
I don't really care too much if I burn a bit of muscle along with my fat, because for now, I am trying to cut down to my goal weight.. and from there I can focus on putting on muscle and eating more calories.. and maybe I can stop with intermittent fasting at that point so I don't have to force all my food within a window.
I guess realistically.. Worst case scenario.. I can just add in a couple tablespoons of natural peanut butter or almond butter (since I hate coconut oil haha).. It's a pretty dense food.. lots of fat and pretty high in calories i guess..?0 -
Thanks for your input.
I have definitely tried adding oils over the last few days to up my calorie intake as I was realizing that my numbers were low. An extra tbsp of coconut oil in each shake and other oils in my salads etc.
The problem with eating stuff like cheese is I am not supposed to be eating dairy. I have chronic sinusitis and apparently dairy only makes sinuses worse.. So I am trying to stay away from that kind of stuff.
I can't imagine it would be a problem to add extra fats/oils into some of my foods, but my main concern is whether or not this is detrimental to my weight loss.. even if I am at.. Let's say around 1500 calories net on a workout day (which is seeming what today will be like.. im at 1250 calories so far.. eating some almonds now.. going to have a salad with chicken for lunch... but will be burning at least 300+ calories after my workout)
I don't really care too much if I burn a bit of muscle along with my fat, because for now, I am trying to cut down to my goal weight.. and from there I can focus on putting on muscle and eating more calories.. and maybe I can stop with intermittent fasting at that point so I don't have to force all my food within a window.
I guess realistically.. Worst case scenario.. I can just add in a couple tablespoons of natural peanut butter or almond butter (since I hate coconut oil haha).. It's a pretty dense food.. lots of fat and pretty high in calories i guess..?
Such silliness, stop trying to hit some magical number on a scale and focus on body comp0 -
have to agree with acg, success is by the tape not the scale. Unless you have a comp monitor scale. I base success on fat % as I found that the amount of protein I eat nowadays has led to muscle build just from day to day tasks weirdly.0
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Thanks for your input.
I have definitely tried adding oils over the last few days to up my calorie intake as I was realizing that my numbers were low. An extra tbsp of coconut oil in each shake and other oils in my salads etc.
The problem with eating stuff like cheese is I am not supposed to be eating dairy. I have chronic sinusitis and apparently dairy only makes sinuses worse.. So I am trying to stay away from that kind of stuff.
I can't imagine it would be a problem to add extra fats/oils into some of my foods, but my main concern is whether or not this is detrimental to my weight loss.. even if I am at.. Let's say around 1500 calories net on a workout day (which is seeming what today will be like.. im at 1250 calories so far.. eating some almonds now.. going to have a salad with chicken for lunch... but will be burning at least 300+ calories after my workout)
I don't really care too much if I burn a bit of muscle along with my fat, because for now, I am trying to cut down to my goal weight.. and from there I can focus on putting on muscle and eating more calories.. and maybe I can stop with intermittent fasting at that point so I don't have to force all my food within a window.
I guess realistically.. Worst case scenario.. I can just add in a couple tablespoons of natural peanut butter or almond butter (since I hate coconut oil haha).. It's a pretty dense food.. lots of fat and pretty high in calories i guess..?
Such silliness, stop trying to hit some magical number on a scale and focus on body comp
And what exactly am I doing..? I was under the impression that eating healthy and working out is me focusing on improving my body composition.
I couldn't care less about the number on the scale, as long as it's going down (this applies for both my weight and my body fat%). That is the point of trying to lose fat when you are overweight... Right?
Thanks for your constructive criticism though, much appreciated.0 -
I think there was just concern that you were happy to lose muscle mass which really shouldn't be recommended. Remember that its that muscle mass that will have a big role in dictating your daily existence calorie burn. So if you lose muscle too much you will have to restrict more to drop fat.
of course its completely personal and nobody can tell you what to do. If you do keto right with a good dose of protein you will not lose muscle though I can promise you that.0 -
I think there was just concern that you were happy to lose muscle mass which really shouldn't be recommended. Remember that its that muscle mass that will have a big role in dictating your daily existence calorie burn. So if you lose muscle too much you will have to restrict more to drop fat.
of course its completely personal and nobody can tell you what to do. If you do keto right with a good dose of protein you will not lose muscle though I can promise you that.
I understand entirely.
It's not like its my goal to lose muscle or anything. But I have done a lot of research about this kind of stuff and it seems like its basically impossible to lose weight, while gaining muscle (and sometimes even maintaining muscle), unless you're very new to lifting. I feel like I have come to a point where I basically have to decide to lose fat or gain muscle.. ? And I feel like there is still some fat left to lose.
If I am incorrect, please, correct me. I am fairly new to this and am very much still learning.
I definitely will try to increase my intake of those oils/butters/fatty meats and stuff though.
edit* I do have a very high amount of protein intake every day. About 1g per pound of lean body mass. I try to get around 150g of protein a day.0 -
Thanks for your input.
I have definitely tried adding oils over the last few days to up my calorie intake as I was realizing that my numbers were low. An extra tbsp of coconut oil in each shake and other oils in my salads etc.
The problem with eating stuff like cheese is I am not supposed to be eating dairy. I have chronic sinusitis and apparently dairy only makes sinuses worse.. So I am trying to stay away from that kind of stuff.
I can't imagine it would be a problem to add extra fats/oils into some of my foods, but my main concern is whether or not this is detrimental to my weight loss.. even if I am at.. Let's say around 1500 calories net on a workout day (which is seeming what today will be like.. im at 1250 calories so far.. eating some almonds now.. going to have a salad with chicken for lunch... but will be burning at least 300+ calories after my workout)
I don't really care too much if I burn a bit of muscle along with my fat, because for now, I am trying to cut down to my goal weight.. and from there I can focus on putting on muscle and eating more calories.. and maybe I can stop with intermittent fasting at that point so I don't have to force all my food within a window.
I guess realistically.. Worst case scenario.. I can just add in a couple tablespoons of natural peanut butter or almond butter (since I hate coconut oil haha).. It's a pretty dense food.. lots of fat and pretty high in calories i guess..?
Such silliness, stop trying to hit some magical number on a scale and focus on body comp
And what exactly am I doing..? I was under the impression that eating healthy and working out is me focusing on improving my body composition.
I couldn't care less about the number on the scale, as long as it's going down (this applies for both my weight and my body fat%). That is the point of trying to lose fat when you are overweight... Right?
Thanks for your constructive criticism though, much appreciated.
If your goal is to have a nice physique, you will need to quit all the nonsense. of changing your diet every few weeks. All your lifting work is going down the tubes. Your lifting and working hard, yet, your not taking in enough calories to keep the lean muscle. If you continue on your path, you will be very lean but muscle mass will probably not be where you want it. So up your calories to around 150 below TDEE and eat. You'll lose weight much slower but your LBM will be able to develop. You won't gain new muscle mass, but you will retain most of the muscle you do have. Since you just started SL 5x5, you may get some newbie gains in LBM. That will end shortly, but you'll be happier in the end.0 -
Since your lifting, up your calories with a nice whey protein isolate. This will help feed your muscles and get your calories up. I buy the muclse milk from costco and it only contains 3g of carbs and 27g of protien per scoop. Drink it with a cup of milk and get more added calories.0
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Thanks for your input.
I have definitely tried adding oils over the last few days to up my calorie intake as I was realizing that my numbers were low. An extra tbsp of coconut oil in each shake and other oils in my salads etc.
The problem with eating stuff like cheese is I am not supposed to be eating dairy. I have chronic sinusitis and apparently dairy only makes sinuses worse.. So I am trying to stay away from that kind of stuff.
I can't imagine it would be a problem to add extra fats/oils into some of my foods, but my main concern is whether or not this is detrimental to my weight loss.. even if I am at.. Let's say around 1500 calories net on a workout day (which is seeming what today will be like.. im at 1250 calories so far.. eating some almonds now.. going to have a salad with chicken for lunch... but will be burning at least 300+ calories after my workout)
I don't really care too much if I burn a bit of muscle along with my fat, because for now, I am trying to cut down to my goal weight.. and from there I can focus on putting on muscle and eating more calories.. and maybe I can stop with intermittent fasting at that point so I don't have to force all my food within a window.
I guess realistically.. Worst case scenario.. I can just add in a couple tablespoons of natural peanut butter or almond butter (since I hate coconut oil haha).. It's a pretty dense food.. lots of fat and pretty high in calories i guess..?
Such silliness, stop trying to hit some magical number on a scale and focus on body comp
And what exactly am I doing..? I was under the impression that eating healthy and working out is me focusing on improving my body composition.
I couldn't care less about the number on the scale, as long as it's going down (this applies for both my weight and my body fat%). That is the point of trying to lose fat when you are overweight... Right?
Thanks for your constructive criticism though, much appreciated.
If your goal is to have a nice physique, you will need to quit all the nonsense. of changing your diet every few weeks. All your lifting work is going down the tubes. Your lifting and working hard, yet, your not taking in enough calories to keep the lean muscle. If you continue on your path, you will be very lean but muscle mass will probably not be where you want it. So up your calories to around 150 below TDEE and eat. You'll lose weight much slower but your LBM will be able to develop. You won't gain new muscle mass, but you will retain most of the muscle you do have. Since you just started SL 5x5, you may get some newbie gains in LBM. That will end shortly, but you'll be happier in the end.
Thank you for the explanation. This is the type of answer I was hoping to get.
I'd like to get the point across that I am not trying to change my diet every few weeks. For the 5-6 months where I originally started my healthy journey, I ate a very low amount of carbs.. maybe 50g-100g at most on any given day. So I really haven't changed much.. I always had a high protein intake, I am just learning to eat extra fat and reducing carbs by a bit more. The only real change that I have implemented is the intermittent fasting that I started about 6 weeks ago. This however, does not change my overall calorie intake (by much) or my macros in any way.
I understand exactly what you are saying though. I'll up my total calorie intake over the next few weeks and see if I can maintain it. It will probably help me in the gym as well.
Thanks0 -
It's probably because you're still relatively new to IF. During the beginning your stomach isn't used to so much food coming in at once so you get full really easily. Give it some time and it gets easier to eat more. 90% of the time when I'm eating I'm either not hungry or full but I just keep eating because it tastes good lol.0
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Agree with the person who told you to stop switching your diet every few weeks. Consistency is key. Pick a diet that works for you that is well rounded macro wise (extremely low carb, high fat diets aren't sustainable long term. they just aren't. plus carbs improve workout performance and promote muscle growth).
Weight loss is calories in vs calories out. It's really that simple. At this point in your dieting experience i'm sure you know how many calories you can eat while still losing weight. Eat that much. Hit your macros. Drink enough water. Get enough sleep. Get enough fiber. Eat one serving of fruit a day and at least one serving of veggie a day. Continue to lift weights as you've been doing and you will continue to lose weight. You might not GAIN muscle - but you will maintain whatever LBM you currently have. That's all you can really ask for during a cut, right?
If your weight loss is stalling even at a caloric deficit try
1) double checking to make sure your calories are correct. are you weighing your food or are you just guestimating? If you're just guestimating, chances are you might be estimating your daily calorie intake lower than it actually is. Weigh your food for a couple weeks to make sure.
2) If you've done the above and after 2 weeks you still aren't losing - try eating at maintenance calories for a week (so eat back your workout calories to hit maintenance) and then go back to dieting
or
3) start incorporating a relaxed meal once a week. i like to do these on legs days. after you workout go out and a nice satisfying meal of whatever you want. eat until you're full, not until you're busting at the seams
in the immortal words of the hodge twins, this is just my advice, you can do whatever the **** you wanna do0 -
Agree with the person who told you to stop switching your diet every few weeks. Consistency is key. Pick a diet that works for you that is well rounded macro wise (extremely low carb, high fat diets aren't sustainable long term. they just aren't. plus carbs improve workout performance and promote muscle growth).
Weight loss is calories in vs calories out. It's really that simple. At this point in your dieting experience i'm sure you know how many calories you can eat while still losing weight. Eat that much. Hit your macros. Drink enough water. Get enough sleep. Get enough fiber. Eat one serving of fruit a day and at least one serving of veggie a day. Continue to lift weights as you've been doing and you will continue to lose weight. You might not GAIN muscle - but you will maintain whatever LBM you currently have. That's all you can really ask for during a cut, right?
If your weight loss is stalling even at a caloric deficit try
1) double checking to make sure your calories are correct. are you weighing your food or are you just guestimating? If you're just guestimating, chances are you might be estimating your daily calorie intake lower than it actually is. Weigh your food for a couple weeks to make sure.
2) If you've done the above and after 2 weeks you still aren't losing - try eating at maintenance calories for a week (so eat back your workout calories to hit maintenance) and then go back to dieting
or
3) start incorporating a relaxed meal once a week. i like to do these on legs days. after you workout go out and a nice satisfying meal of whatever you want. eat until you're full, not until you're busting at the seams
in the immortal words of the hodge twins, this is just my advice, you can do whatever the **** you wanna do
Thank you for your response.
I would like to reiterate, again, that I have not been switching my diet every few weeks.
I mean no disrespect, but seriously, I wouldn't have lost 70 pounds if I didn't understand how this process works. I understand consistency is key. That is why I have got to where I am. Like I stated in an earlier post, the first 4-5 months of my lifestyle change was very similar to my current diet. I understand calories in vs calories out. That is why I am still eating at a calorie deficit, as I am still trying to lose weight.
I should have stated that I have a carb refeed at the end of every week to ensure my glycogen stores aren't depleted and I have the energy to go through my workout for the following week.
My question was in reference to total calorie intake, and if its harmful, detrimental or counter productive to what my goals are. Not getting opinions on what people think of a ketogenic diet and whether or not its sustainable long term. I know people who have been doing it for 10+ years and love it. To each their own.
1) I do weigh all my food. The calories I log are accurate. There is no guesstimating involved.
2) I will definitely try to up my calories and see what kind of effect that has.
3) Sounds too good to be true :P
The hodge twins are actually the reason why I decided to start IF.. But rather than eating a giant piece of cornbread to get my macros in, I am trying to eat cleaner and healthier foods... Thus making it harder for me to reach my daily macros.
Again, I mean no disrespect and I don't mean to come off as a ****, but it's becoming frustrating when people are just assuming that I am constantly changing things/diets, when in reality I am not.
I have made calculated and well researched changes over long periods of time. No quick fixes or fads, that is not how I function.0
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