TDEE Activity Level is, well, kind of... really vague.

lisasch67
lisasch67 Posts: 135 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
So a lot of people on here use TDEE, BMR, TDEE+Cut, etc, etc, etc to calculate exactly how many calories their bodies need and what their macros should be set at. Well I've calculated my BMR, TDEE, TDEE plus cut. I've used the scooby page, fitness frog, everything. And while I'm not a nazi about my calories, and tend to overindulge once a week or so (it keeps me sane), I do work out fairly often and feel like things aren't changing.

I am 28, 5'-6" and currently weigh between 153 and 156 depending on the day of the week/time of the month. I strive to get in some sort of physical activity daily with real workouts 5 days a week, 3 days of running (it's my favorite - I'm a weirdo) and 2 days of strength - not heavy lifting yet - working my way there. I know some of you are going to jump on me right away and tell me cardio is for @$$holes and I should rarely do cardio, but I am runner, it makes me happy and I won't give it up.

I am not concerned about what the scale says because I feel myself getting stronger, but the measurements aren't changing, so I am concerned I am doing this wrong. So with all this talk, what I really want to know is what is my real activity level? I want to know if I am eating too much or too little.

"Sedentary (Desk job, and Little Formal Exercise)
Lightly Active (Light daily activity AND light exercise 1-3 days a week)
Moderately Active (Moderately daily Activity & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)
Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle & Hard exercise 6-7 days a week)
Extremely Active (Athlete in ENDURANCE training or VERY HARD physical job)"

THIS IS SO VAGUE AND IT ANNOYS ME.

I live in an urban area and don't own a car. So on the weekdays I'm at a desk 9 hours a day, but I walk to and from work most of the time (1.5 miles one day, 3 miles round trip). Days I run, I'm running between 3-5 miles, and days I do strength my workouts are about 40 - 50 mins. Some days I completely rest, but I am always walking from point A to point B. And on the weekends I walk EVERYWHERE. I have fuelband which has a pedometer, so I find on the weekends that I walk up to 6 miles easily, just running errands.

Basically here's what I've calculated across all the sites:

BMR: 1501
TDEE (moderate exercise): 2327
20% Cut: 1862

I try to get around 1800-1900 calories in every day, even days I 'rest.' And like I said I don't care too much about the numbers on the scale, but my measurements aren't really changing despite feeling strong. The calories come lots of chicken, quinoa, salads, broccoli, veggies, etc. My diary is open to people who are my friends, so friend me if you want to take a closer look.

Anyway, I've been working out consistently and eating fairly well for about 6 weeks. Should I stick with it longer? Am I calculating this wrong? Do I just have to live with it because I like running and am not lifting heavy yet?

Sidenote: I just bought a HRM (Polar FT7), so I am hoping that helps me really calculate how many calories I'm burning and need to be replacing.
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Replies

  • stefa711
    stefa711 Posts: 196 Member
    I absolutely agree with you. Bump!
  • Woomytron
    Woomytron Posts: 253 Member
    I don't know if this will change anything but I know on Scooby's it goes by hours not how many days. Light is 1-3 hours (a week). Moderate is 3-5 hours ( a week). So I don't know how many hours you workout or anything but maybe try putting it at light instead?
  • BikerGirlElaine
    BikerGirlElaine Posts: 1,631 Member
    What has been very helpful to me is to use my 'observed' TDEE over the last eight weeks.

    Total your calories eaten for the last eight weeks. Take your pounds lost in that time frame and multiply by 3,500, and add the two numbers together. Divide by 56 and that is your maintenance TDEE.

    Then you can take the appropriate % cut from that number and have what you should eat to lose weight. Of course, if the number is too low, then maybe you need to look at other factors -- are you trying to take too deep of a cut, are you logging your food accurately enough, etc.

    Since you said you eat more on the weekends, I think that I would make it a weekly total calorie goal and target that.

    Hope that helps. :flowerforyou:
  • hbrittingham
    hbrittingham Posts: 2,518 Member
    I'm not sure what your HRM has to do with using TDEE - 20%. It doesn't matter how many calories you are burning as long as you are getting the activity you are using to figure your TDEE, which it sounds like you are. Actually, I am thinking that it's possible that you need to up your calories and figure your TDEE - 20% on Very Active rather than Moderately Active.
  • hbrittingham
    hbrittingham Posts: 2,518 Member
    Oh, and I wanted to add that I read somewhere that when you are 20 lbs or less from your goal weight, you should use TDEE- 15%.
  • donna_glasgow
    donna_glasgow Posts: 869 Member
    couldn't agree more, Im 40 years old and 5'6"

    I am currently trying the eat more to weigh less method and have found the TDEE numbers so confusing .... I am a stay at home mum so I have a house to keep neat and tidy also we are re-furbishing our house (converting the loft into living space) so I do alot of lifting and carrying of materials into the loft and out also carpentry blah blah .. I work on this in this 4 maybe 5 evenings Mon to fri , and 8 hours per day sat and sunday ... theres allot of work to be done ... I have also added the 30 day shred.

    So with the above I am not sedentary .... I felt that moderatly active (2300 TDEE) was too high so I plumped for the lightly active .. no idea where I should be thou

    ETS - I do the -20% and that puts me at 1600 per day which I average out :)
  • climbamnt
    climbamnt Posts: 190 Member
    I got a FitBit and it give me the breakdown of my activity level and I took that and entered it into a more detailed TDEE calculator. Average day is about 2200 for me, so I am aim for 1800 too. I haven't had the scale move, but I have lost another inch off my measurements and another pant size. How long have you been at it?

    I used the IIFYM TDEE calculator on an outside website.
  • hgrizzle
    hgrizzle Posts: 11
    I agree that the activity level descriptions are vague. If you want to have a realistic idea of how many calories you are burning I would suggest something like the Bodymedia Fit. You say you have purchased an HRM and you may be able to get the same kind of information from it, but I haven't used one so I'm not positive. Regardless, I had myself set at sedentary and wasn't eating much until I purchased a Bodymedia Fit and discovered that I was burning significantly more calories than I thought I was. I'm eating more and still loosing weight.
  • Michelle7897
    Michelle7897 Posts: 108 Member
    I tried figuring my activity level using the Scooby calculator, not to mention just about every other website I found on google. I never did get good results from that. I use a heart rate monitor when I exercise, which is either eliptical or running, and wear my Fitbit. I put everything in here and have my Fitbit linked to myfitnesspal. This gives me my TDEE and seems to be pretty accurate. Here is my numbers for this week:

    Monday: TDEE was 2351, Deficit was -707
    Tuesday: TDEE was 2419, Deficit was -855
    Wednesday: TDEE was 2313, Deficit was -734
    Thursday: TDEE was 1618, Deficit was -483

    Total deficit for the week so far is 2779, which should translate to 0.8 pound loss. My weight was 148.0 on Monday and 146.4 today. I highly recommend a Fitbit One if you can afford it. Good luck!
  • NJL13500
    NJL13500 Posts: 433 Member
    I agree that TDEE can be a moving target. I bought a BodyMedia armband and I was actually very surprised to see that the online calculators were fairly close. I found that MFP overestimates exercise calories (at least for me). I also move around A LOT more just doing "stuff" than I thought.

    My stats are:
    5'6"
    135 pounds
    42 years old
    1293 BMR
    2405 TDEE (average over the last 28 days)
    I'd like to lose about 3 more pounds, but keep my lean mass and increase my strength.

    I currently eat between 1850-1950 calories per day to run a slight deficit. I do lift heavy, but refuse to give up cardio as well. I'm training for a half marathon in 2 weeks and balance my lifting (3 days per week) with my cardio. I'm found a balance that works for me. Even on lifting days I do 30 minutes of steady state cardio to unwind and loosen my muscles.

    Before I got my BodyMedia I used 1200 as a base but ate back exercise calories. I usually ended up grossing anywhere from 1400-2000 depending on how active I was that day.

    That is what works for me. My advice to you is that you might need to challenge yourself a little more in terms of your cardio. Your runs may be routine to your body. You are probably a very efficient runner. Maybe throw some speedwork in. A couple of sprints here and there to challenge your body. The lifting will definitely help, but I think you are taking a great approach by going slowly. I used the machines for a while and then switched to barbells and free weights.

    I think you have the right idea in terms of calorie intake. (My opinion) You might start to see results with a more challenging workout routine. Good luck!
  • climbamnt
    climbamnt Posts: 190 Member
    I agree that the activity level descriptions are vague. If you want to have a realistic idea of how many calories you are burning I would suggest something like the Bodymedia Fit. You say you have purchased an HRM and you may be able to get the same kind of information from it, but I haven't used one so I'm not positive. Regardless, I had myself set at sedentary and wasn't eating much until I purchased a Bodymedia Fit and discovered that I was burning significantly more calories than I thought I was. I'm eating more and still loosing weight.

    Same thing here, I thought I was sedentary, but after using my FitBit (similar to BodyMedia) I found that I was much more active than I thought and I was underfeeding myself.
  • xampx
    xampx Posts: 323 Member
    I just work mine out as sedentary (about 1500) and then eat back all exercise calories since I track them with my HRM.
  • laurie41565
    laurie41565 Posts: 64 Member
    I just work mine out as sedentary (about 1500) and then eat back all exercise calories since I track them with my HRM.

    This is what I am going to try doing. Has it been working for you this way?
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    Generally when calculators say 1-3 times per week or 3-5 times per week...they are assuming 60 minute (hour increments)...so really 1-3 hours per week or 3-5 hours per week, etc. The kicker is that someone using TDEE who puts themselves as "light active" based 1-3 hours per week...the weight loss will be variable as to whether it's 1 hour or 3 hours...or more. Someone using TDEE at light active who works out 3 hours per week is likely to have better results than someone who works out 1 hour per week...same for all of the levels.

    What you have to remember OP is that these calculators are meant to give you a starting point. You are going to find a calculator in the world that is going to tell you THIS IS YOUR TDEE PERIOD. When I started using TDEE, I started with moderate active as well based on my exercise combined with my work...reality is that I'm somewhere between light active and moderate active...if I eat my TDEE at moderate active, I gain...which is good to know for when I go into a bulk...it'll be perfect. If I eat at my TDEE for light active, I still lose when I don't want to...so see...I just have to find my happy spot somewhere in the middle.

    This is all trial and error...it's a combination of things that need to be dialed in. It helps when you take a truly long view of things and think of this as an overall lifestyle rather than a diet...it leaves you some time to play with your numbers without stressing about the scale so much.
  • lisasch67
    lisasch67 Posts: 135 Member
    Thank you all for the suggestions. I think I might be stronger than I think I am and need to challenge myself a bit more in addition to finding my TDEE average. Also, thank you guys and gals for helping me realize I am on the right track, just need to take it a few steps further...
  • kdiamond
    kdiamond Posts: 3,329 Member
    I agree with the OP, it is a moving target.

    Honestly it took me a YEAR of changing up my calories to figure out my maintenance. A year of losing 2 pounds, gaining 2 pounds, etc..

    I think you're doing fine, but if I were you I'd probably drop 150 more calories daily, ATLEAST on the days you rest. And then adjust from there. You might not be burning as much as you think (believe me, when I got an HRM and really monitored my workouts, it was pretty much half of what the machines said) and thus not creating a high enough deficit.

    It definitely takes trial and error.
  • Cyclink
    Cyclink Posts: 517 Member
    The incredible vagueness is why I calculated myself as sedentary and then add my activities to it.

    I vary a lot from day to day (some days training intensely, some easily, some not at all, and then variations within each of those) so I would be off if I went with one of the semi-defined options.
  • rosiereally2
    rosiereally2 Posts: 539 Member
    I use heybales's spreadsheet on the In Place of a Roadmap Forum. It is MUCH more comprehensive.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/717858-spreadsheet-bmr-tdee-and-deficit-calcs-macros-hrm
  • CaffeinatedConfectionist
    CaffeinatedConfectionist Posts: 1,046 Member
    I just work mine out as sedentary (about 1500) and then eat back all exercise calories since I track them with my HRM.

    I do this as well, and have for some months. I feel that my activity level fluctuates too much day by day or week by week to try to use one set activity level as a modified. So I had been using TDEE at sedentary minus 15%, but I recently changed it to TDEE at light activity minus 15% to take into account the heavy lifting that I do. If I skip a lifting session, then I reduce intake by 100 calories or so that day. It's been working pretty well for me.
  • EmilyOfTheSun
    EmilyOfTheSun Posts: 1,548 Member
    This is a problem that I ran into. It's hard to be accurate especially if your workouts have a lot of variety and you're burning different amounts of calories each time. Some of my workouts could be considered "moderate exercise" and some are workouts that have ridiculous calorie burns.

    I calculated my TDEE NOT including any exercise activity. So I calculated mine for a sedentary lifestyle with NO exercise, -20%.
    Then I bought a heart rate monitor, and I just "eat back my exercise calories" on days when I workout. It's worked pretty well for me.
  • lithezebra
    lithezebra Posts: 3,670 Member
    I set my activity level at sedentary, whether I am or not, and log my activity independently. I have a long, complicated reason for thinking that this is, overall, a more accurate way to determine one's caloric needs than choosing an activity level.

    I like EmilyoftheSun's way of doing it too.
  • ZombieSlayer
    ZombieSlayer Posts: 369 Member
    Have you considered that you might be at your ideal weight already?

    At 5'4" I was at 23% body fat at 155 lbs (pre-pregnancy).

    When you're at ideal weight, seeing changes in body composition can take a long time.

    edit to fix typo.
  • jzammetti
    jzammetti Posts: 1,956 Member
    TDEE seems to be a moving target for me. I tried the sedentary plus eating back exercise calories but stalled after a while. I moved to lightly active and stalled after a while. Turns out I am moderately active and needed mroe food. As I get more involved in heavy lifting my activity level goes up so my calories must also go up to stay properly fueled.

    Pick a number, test it out for 30 days, re-eavluate. I had to do this repeatedly. Trial and error is probably the only way to get it right and while it is time consuming and pretty frustrating when you haven't picked the right number (or when trying to decide whether to add or subtract calories), you will figure it out and eventually find what works for your body. Remember, we are learning how to eat for the rest of our lives and it is totally worth the process.
  • t2kburl
    t2kburl Posts: 123 Member
    What has been very helpful to me is to use my 'observed' TDEE over the last eight weeks.

    Total your calories eaten for the last eight weeks. Take your pounds lost in that time frame and multiply by 3,500, and add the two numbers together. Divide by 56 and that is your maintenance TDEE.

    Then you can take the appropriate % cut from that number and have what you should eat to lose weight. Of course, if the number is too low, then maybe you need to look at other factors -- are you trying to take too deep of a cut, are you logging your food accurately enough, etc.

    Since you said you eat more on the weekends, I think that I would make it a weekly total calorie goal and target that.

    Hope that helps. :flowerforyou:

    I just calculated all that and got a TDEE-20% value within 50 cal of my current goal :)
    I used the exrx.net TDEE calculator, IIFYM and Scoobys and averaged them.

    ETA: I completely agree that trial and error is the best method to find what works best for YOU. It took me months to come up with my current calorie goal. Coincidentally, it is the highest goal I've used. And it has worked the best.
  • tom_olech
    tom_olech Posts: 139 Member
    TDEE is vague because it is an estimate, you would need to wear a mask which measures oxygen uptake over several days to get an accurate estimate of real world TDEE. What you need to do is set it to the level most appropriate to what your current activity level is and make little adjustments it from there (i.e. add 150 calories if you feel overly tired or run down)
  • tom_olech
    tom_olech Posts: 139 Member
    What has been very helpful to me is to use my 'observed' TDEE over the last eight weeks.

    Total your calories eaten for the last eight weeks. Take your pounds lost in that time frame and multiply by 3,500, and add the two numbers together. Divide by 56 and that is your maintenance TDEE.

    Then you can take the appropriate % cut from that number and have what you should eat to lose weight. Of course, if the number is too low, then maybe you need to look at other factors -- are you trying to take too deep of a cut, are you logging your food accurately enough, etc.

    Since you said you eat more on the weekends, I think that I would make it a weekly total calorie goal and target that.

    Hope that helps. :flowerforyou:

    YAAAAA....i dont think this is an accurate measurement of TDEE. Weight changes on a daily basis and if you do any sort of weight training, you gain muscle and lose less weight overall....this is, at best, an rough estimate like TDEE
  • aleesh_
    aleesh_ Posts: 137 Member
    No TDEE calculator is going to be exact, it's all trial and error. I go by weekly averages of my net calories, I try to keep the average above my BMR. If I'm under my BMR then I adjust my calories for the next week since I'm doing Insanity and basically doing the same exercises every week. Next week is my last week of Insanity though so I'll have to figure out a new workout plan and adjust my calories accordingly!
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    The incredible vagueness is why I calculated myself as sedentary and then add my activities to it.

    I vary a lot from day to day (some days training intensely, some easily, some not at all, and then variations within each of those) so I would be off if I went with one of the semi-defined options.

    I generally recommend people use the NEAT method (or MFP method) as you've described above in such a scenario. It is difficult to use the TDEE method when you're all over the place. My exercise varies in intensity day to day, but averages out to something consistent over the course of a week...once you've got that dialed in, TDEE is nice because you can just plan your day around a set number of calories rather than having to worry about bumping up what you're having for dinner or adding another unplanned snack or something.
  • Cyclink
    Cyclink Posts: 517 Member
    The incredible vagueness is why I calculated myself as sedentary and then add my activities to it.

    I vary a lot from day to day (some days training intensely, some easily, some not at all, and then variations within each of those) so I would be off if I went with one of the semi-defined options.

    I generally recommend people use the NEAT method (or MFP method) as you've described above in such a scenario. It is difficult to use the TDEE method when you're all over the place. My exercise varies in intensity day to day, but averages out to something consistent over the course of a week...once you've got that dialed in, TDEE is nice because you can just plan your day around a set number of calories rather than having to worry about bumping up what you're having for dinner or adding another unplanned snack or something.

    It works well for me to log every day because I'm a data junkie and will later compare my results with my logs and see what I can do better.

    Not everyone is that obsessive.
  • Rhonnie
    Rhonnie Posts: 506 Member
    It really seems like you've got your numbers worked out, and may just need to be patient.

    I see 2 possible places where things are getting mixed up, and unfortunately (or not, depending on how you look at it) they are kind of opposite issues. One is you seem pretty active so maybe have your calories set to low. The other is that you go over on your calories one or two days. Now, there is nothing wrong with going over one day a week, but you still need to keep track of what you are eating that day and make sure you are still at a calorie deficit for the week.

    In general I'd say stick with what you are doing a little longer, see how the numbers on your HRM work into the equation, and then tweak things in a few weeks if you still don't see any changes you are happy with.

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