TED Talk on Processed Food (short)
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So frozen vegetables are less than zero nutritionally? Same with meat?:laugh:I eat almost nothing in the way of processed food and make a point of avoiding any food with added chemicals. The salad dressing that I use has nothing beyond food ingredients and not many ingredients at that. I eat sweet potato chips but all there is in them is sweet potatoes, "cold pressed oil" and sea salt. Other than that, I eat organic vegetables and fruits (as much as possible), organic raw milk cheddar (and some other dairy), organic eggs, "wild caught" fish, and "naturally raised" beef and chicken. Our food bills for my husband and me are not high (but we are not big eaters). In general, processed food is pretty expensive when you account for the fact that it is a nutritional "less than zero".
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There is nothing in that list that isn't processed in some manner except possibly the fruits and veggies unless the eggs were plucked directly from under the chicken with no sorting, washing or packaging and the fish was still whole and never frozen.
And as an aside and nothing to do with the above - if you know the chemistry involved in food, you're automatically biased!? WTH? Since when does knowledge == bias?
ETA: On further consideration, I guess I must be biased about a whole lot of things. Dratted education. Wish I was ignorant like the rest of the unbiased society.
There is no room for your knowledge or facts here. Take that crap somewhere else.
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Come on Reddy. If you lived rent free, then $800 is plenty for food.this is an excuse.
I make a couple hundred a week living in NYC - the most expensive city in the world - and I eat organic, local whole foods.
:flowerforyou:
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i don't live rent free and yes, I make more than $800/month as we have established.0 -
While you're at it, add some natural fertilizer.:laugh:speaking of which - time to go plant some veggies in pots!
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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yup. already done.0 -
So frozen vegetables are less than zero nutritionally? Same with meat?:laugh:I eat almost nothing in the way of processed food and make a point of avoiding any food with added chemicals. The salad dressing that I use has nothing beyond food ingredients and not many ingredients at that. I eat sweet potato chips but all there is in them is sweet potatoes, "cold pressed oil" and sea salt. Other than that, I eat organic vegetables and fruits (as much as possible), organic raw milk cheddar (and some other dairy), organic eggs, "wild caught" fish, and "naturally raised" beef and chicken. Our food bills for my husband and me are not high (but we are not big eaters). In general, processed food is pretty expensive when you account for the fact that it is a nutritional "less than zero".
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
There is nothing in that list that isn't processed in some manner except possibly the fruits and veggies unless the eggs were plucked directly from under the chicken with no sorting, washing or packaging and the fish was still whole and never frozen.
And as an aside and nothing to do with the above - if you know the chemistry involved in food, you're automatically biased!? WTH? Since when does knowledge == bias?
Another misleading comment about processing. Of course, people don't mean that processing includes sorting, washing, or packaging. By your definition, nothing is not processed because we chew our food, thus "processing it" in our mouths.
And no, most people would not consider freezing whole meat or fish or veg to be processed either.
However... if you're buying factory-farmed meat and poultry, even those labeled "natural", it may include MANY additives to enhance the color, texture, flavor, and shelf-life. I don't think these are ever listed on labels, but it it's not organic, they're probably in there. Even if it is organic, some might still be in there, I'm not sure.
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/Additives_in_Meat_&_Poultry_Products/index.asp0 -
I have to snicker a little when I hear people advocating the buying of local farmer's produce. I grew up on a farm and helped my grandpa run the produce stand and tend the fields. Our family and all the other small town farm's around us used pesticides on produce.
Also, I knew of a couple of "farmers" who would buy produce in bulk, that was shipped from as far as Mexico, and would sell it as local grown to unsuspecting patrons at the farmers' market.
Yeah, a common MFP misconception seems to be that farmers market = organic. It rarely does.0 -
Farmer's markets really vary depending on city/location....if your city even has one. Where I used to live in the states (Portland, Oregon) there were some great deals to be had on locally grown organic produce at the farmer's markets. There was also a whole lot of really expensive stuff, including all sorts of "fancy" organic food products (anything from sausages to jams to spice mixtures to freshly baked goods). The farmer's markets I went to whilst living in San Francisco were also fantastic.
Here in Glasgow, Scotland, there is a farmer's market down the street every other week....it is full of these expensive food products and doesn't have much (if anything) in the way of fresh local produce, meats, or fish.
There are not CSAs in my area, either. You can get organic produce deliveries weekly, but it doesn't work out to be any less expensive than buying organic produce from the supermarkets. It's nicer, because it's fresh and locally grown...but it's still all very expensive.
I live in a tenement flat that's over 100 years old. There is no garden space. I don't have a balcony or terrace, either. I don't even have a fire escape, lol! One could join the community garden deal...(allotment is what it's called), but that would involve knowing at least a little bit about growing stuff and having the time/desire to get into it.
My point is that not everyone has access to organic produce/meats/etc. and certainly not if they don't have a whole lot of cash. If you've got access to these things, that's great, and you should consider yourself fortunate! I consider myself fortunate to be able to eat as I do, because it ain't cheap. I don't eat all organic all the time. Can't afford it and can't source it here. But I do the best I can with what I've got.
I think everyone should be encouraged to do the best they can with whatever they've got available to them locally and in terms of what they can afford. It's not right to look down your nose at anyone who is saying they don't have the same opportunities to eat as well as you, whether it is due to their location, budget, housing (no room for a garden or planters), etc.0 -
I have to snicker a little when I hear people advocating the buying of local farmer's produce. I grew up on a farm and helped my grandpa run the produce stand and tend the fields. Our family and all the other small town farm's around us used pesticides on produce.
Also, I knew of a couple of "farmers" who would buy produce in bulk, that was shipped from as far as Mexico, and would sell it as local grown to unsuspecting patrons at the farmers' market.
Yeah, a common MFP misconception seems to be that farmers market = organic. It rarely does.
Personally I could care less if pesticides are used. I grew up on farm raised produce. Nothing like a fruit or veggie right off the plant!0 -
I have to snicker a little when I hear people advocating the buying of local farmer's produce. I grew up on a farm and helped my grandpa run the produce stand and tend the fields. Our family and all the other small town farm's around us used pesticides on produce.
Also, I knew of a couple of "farmers" who would buy produce in bulk, that was shipped from as far as Mexico, and would sell it as local grown to unsuspecting patrons at the farmers' market.
Yeah, a common MFP misconception seems to be that farmers market = organic. It rarely does.
Personally I could care less if pesticides are used. I grew up on farm raised produce. Nothing like a fruit or veggie right off the plant!
that's certainly your choice to make, but there are plenty of farmers markets that offer local, organic produce. all you have to do is - gasp - ask the farmers.0 -
I have to snicker a little when I hear people advocating the buying of local farmer's produce. I grew up on a farm and helped my grandpa run the produce stand and tend the fields. Our family and all the other small town farm's around us used pesticides on produce.
Also, I knew of a couple of "farmers" who would buy produce in bulk, that was shipped from as far as Mexico, and would sell it as local grown to unsuspecting patrons at the farmers' market.
Yeah, a common MFP misconception seems to be that farmers market = organic. It rarely does.
Personally I could care less if pesticides are used. I grew up on farm raised produce. Nothing like a fruit or veggie right off the plant!
that's certainly your choice to make, but there are plenty of farmers markets that offer local, organic produce. all you have to do is - gasp - ask the farmers.
No way they would ever lie to increase profits. :noway:0 -
Only to the uneducated.Since when does knowledge == bias?
Here, it seems to be Reddy's Ready Answer to Science™0 -
Yes, you must label food additives. It's a big deal, and the FDA will come down hard if you don't. I'm not sure about USDA because I don't work with them.
"Natural" in the labeling context means the ingredient was sourced from a natural product. For instance, if I extracted flavor compounds from an orange fruit and put it into chewing gum, it would be a Natural Flavor. If you took the exact same compounds, but not extracted from an orange it would be Artificial Flavor.
The source is what determines the labeling, not the actual chemistry of the product.
"Organic" isn't defined by the FDA, so it can mean whatever you want it to. That's why you may see some kind of "Certified Organic" by an independent organization label on the food. To lend credibility to the product.
I also wanted to mention in the original video, the author says that Gatorade's blue dye is considered IP to protect their investment and hide information from the consumer. This is false. Brilliant Blue FCF (FD&C Blue 1) is well known and has been around for a long time. Anyone can use it.0 -
I have to snicker a little when I hear people advocating the buying of local farmer's produce. I grew up on a farm and helped my grandpa run the produce stand and tend the fields. Our family and all the other small town farm's around us used pesticides on produce.
Also, I knew of a couple of "farmers" who would buy produce in bulk, that was shipped from as far as Mexico, and would sell it as local grown to unsuspecting patrons at the farmers' market.
Yeah, a common MFP misconception seems to be that farmers market = organic. It rarely does.
Personally I could care less if pesticides are used. I grew up on farm raised produce. Nothing like a fruit or veggie right off the plant!
that's certainly your choice to make, but there are plenty of farmers markets that offer local, organic produce. all you have to do is - gasp - ask the farmers.
And-gasp- like I previously stated, many "farmers" are less than honest about where their produce comes from and how it is grown. Granted most small farmers are honest but the consumer should be wary.0 -
Only to the uneducated.Since when does knowledge == bias?
Here, it seems to be Reddy's Ready Answer to Science™
nah, it just means that when you work IN an industry, it obviously means you think they do good work since you wouldn't (I assume) willingly work for a corporation that you thought did scary/dangerous/less-than-safe things to its consumers.
it's a conflict of interest thing - that's all.0 -
Yes, you must label food additives. It's a big deal, and the FDA will come down hard if you don't. I'm not sure about USDA because I don't work with them.
"Natural" in the labeling context means the ingredient was sourced from a natural product. For instance, if I extracted flavor compounds from an orange fruit and put it into chewing gum, it would be a Natural Flavor. If you took the exact same compounds, but not extracted from an orange it would be Artificial Flavor.
The source is what determines the labeling, not the actual chemistry of the product.
"Organic" isn't defined by the FDA, so it can mean whatever you want it to. That's why you may see some kind of "Certified Organic" by an independent organization label on the food. To lend credibility to the product.
I also wanted to mention in the original video, the author says that Gatorade's blue dye is considered IP to protect their investment and hide information from the consumer. This is false. Brilliant Blue FCF (FD&C Blue 1) is well known and has been around for a long time. Anyone can use it.
The USDA does have stringent guidelines for labeling something "Organic", though I'll be the first to admit it's far from perfect.
however, it's better than the alternative.0 -
Farmer's markets really vary depending on city/location....if your city even has one. Where I used to live in the states (Portland, Oregon) there were some great deals to be had on locally grown organic produce at the farmer's markets. There was also a whole lot of really expensive stuff, including all sorts of "fancy" organic food products (anything from sausages to jams to spice mixtures to freshly baked goods). The farmer's markets I went to whilst living in San Francisco were also fantastic.
Here in Glasgow, Scotland, there is a farmer's market down the street every other week....it is full of these expensive food products and doesn't have much (if anything) in the way of fresh local produce, meats, or fish.
There are not CSAs in my area, either. You can get organic produce deliveries weekly, but it doesn't work out to be any less expensive than buying organic produce from the supermarkets. It's nicer, because it's fresh and locally grown...but it's still all very expensive.
I live in a tenement flat that's over 100 years old. There is no garden space. I don't have a balcony or terrace, either. I don't even have a fire escape, lol! One could join the community garden deal...(allotment is what it's called), but that would involve knowing at least a little bit about growing stuff and having the time/desire to get into it.
My point is that not everyone has access to organic produce/meats/etc. and certainly not if they don't have a whole lot of cash. If you've got access to these things, that's great, and you should consider yourself fortunate! I consider myself fortunate to be able to eat as I do, because it ain't cheap. I don't eat all organic all the time. Can't afford it and can't source it here. But I do the best I can with what I've got.
I think everyone should be encouraged to do the best they can with whatever they've got available to them locally and in terms of what they can afford. It's not right to look down your nose at anyone who is saying they don't have the same opportunities to eat as well as you, whether it is due to their location, budget, housing (no room for a garden or planters), etc.
I whole-heartedly agree with every thing you posted. The intent of my post was to list some ways to obtain nutritious whole foods even when you're on a budget. Doesn't mean each one of these things is available to everyone. Each person makes their choices based on their budget, access, and priorities.0 -
I didn't know about the USDA organic stuff. I'll read up on it.
And I am biased. I think having nutritious, affordable food is important to any society, which is why I'm in food science. I can't speak for the whole industry though.
And I have 150 square feet of raised beds in my backyard that hopefully will yield a nice crop this year, though a late frost put a damper on some of my tomatoes and peppers. It's not all rattling test tubes.0 -
Only to the uneducated.Since when does knowledge == bias?
Here, it seems to be Reddy's Ready Answer to Science™
nah, it just means that when you work IN an industry, it obviously means you think they do good work since you wouldn't (I assume) willingly work for a corporation that you thought did scary/dangerous/less-than-safe things to its consumers.
it's a conflict of interest thing - that's all.
It's a *potential* conflict of interest. But it doesn't mean you trade in your brain and do not think critically. And the knowledge gained as a "practitioner of the art" let's you understand and see the true issues more clearly.
But in the face of your cartoonish representation of a thing you truly don't know your assumptions are the real bias. I mean, you could, thread after thread gotten the idea of asking an insider to give you the low-down on what they think are the issues but some sort of arrogance makes you think you know how "drug peddling" works and prevents you from asking.
I remember when you arrived here with your "clean is everything" vs IIFYM and your position evolved. There is always hope. :flowerforyou:0 -
"...People need to stop trying to scare others with chemical names. Here's a fun list of chemicals found in an orange:
Hesperidin, Naringenin, Limonene..."
But we know for a fact that the first three, at least, are actually quite good for you and combat disease. But we just don't know the long term effects of some chemicals that are added to processed food. For me, I think I will try to stick (as close as possible) to what nature provides.
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So frozen vegetables are less than zero nutritionally? Same with meat?:laugh:I eat almost nothing in the way of processed food and make a point of avoiding any food with added chemicals. The salad dressing that I use has nothing beyond food ingredients and not many ingredients at that. I eat sweet potato chips but all there is in them is sweet potatoes, "cold pressed oil" and sea salt. Other than that, I eat organic vegetables and fruits (as much as possible), organic raw milk cheddar (and some other dairy), organic eggs, "wild caught" fish, and "naturally raised" beef and chicken. Our food bills for my husband and me are not high (but we are not big eaters). In general, processed food is pretty expensive when you account for the fact that it is a nutritional "less than zero".
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
You know that is not what is commonly meant by the phrase "processed food". What is meant is something that comes in a package with an ingredient list as long as your arm.0 -
Only to the uneducated.Since when does knowledge == bias?
Here, it seems to be Reddy's Ready Answer to Science™
nah, it just means that when you work IN an industry, it obviously means you think they do good work since you wouldn't (I assume) willingly work for a corporation that you thought did scary/dangerous/less-than-safe things to its consumers.
it's a conflict of interest thing - that's all.
It's a *potential* conflict of interest. But it doesn't mean you trade in your brain and do not think critically. And the knowledge gained as a "practitioner of the art" let's you understand and see the true issues more clearly.
As someone who's bills are paid in large part thanks to the pharma industry, I agree with this. Anyone who works in a large publicly-traded corporation is potentially working for an organization that cares more about share price and profit than anything else. In every industry. Believe me... I've lived through a massive drug recall as a pharma rep... that is NOT fun. But that doesn't mean that I can't think for myself or that I think all of pharma is bad, or even that everyone involved in the development and marketing of that specific drug was bad. I couldn't control what goes on in the board room, but I could control my own sphere of influence.
Does that mean I love to take drugs? Nope. Am I glad that the very same company that I worked for that had the drug recall also makes one of my brother's many HIV drugs? Absolutely.0
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