Criticism vs Shaming
djshari
Posts: 513 Member
So CNN just featured a success story and like most I read on here I found it very inspiring. However - it started in part because of a comment her teacher made about her weight. Plenty of people thought it was wrong for the teacher to make the comment - but there plenty of others who feel that it wasn't bullying and that overweight/obese people should be shamed or bullied into losing weight.
What do you all think of this? I know it is the internet and probably lots of the comments were trolling or just people being nasty for the sake of being nasty but I know there are people that actually think like this. So now it is ok to call out people for being fat and telling them what to do? I've seen posts here from members do the exact same thing which is even worse imho because we are all already here to get healthier. I think if someone feels they have a right to judge and comment on a stranger or near strangers appearance and health without actually knowing them they open themselves up to the exact same criticism and is that what we want? So why is ok just with fat people? Why can't I walk up to people I barely know and tell them I think they drink too much or they should get their teeth fixed or they really shouldn't be eating whatever they are eating. It just still shocks me that people are so ignorant and wonder why we have such a problem in our society. I see someone who has tanned the youth right out of their skin or smokes worrying about how OTHER people's unhealthy habits effect THEM... Instead of making positive and productive steps they think they can just sit back and be a jerk and people will change and then THANK them for it? It's one thing to ask for help... quite another to think it's ok to bully people "for their own good".
Are you someone who can take negativity and turn it around to work for you? Or does it drag you down?
I'm going to chalk this one up to positive. I found another source of inspiriation. I also think that the people that can be most critical should spend more time working on their own habits and health and I should be doing that more as well - which means I'm going to go do that right now.
What do you all think of this? I know it is the internet and probably lots of the comments were trolling or just people being nasty for the sake of being nasty but I know there are people that actually think like this. So now it is ok to call out people for being fat and telling them what to do? I've seen posts here from members do the exact same thing which is even worse imho because we are all already here to get healthier. I think if someone feels they have a right to judge and comment on a stranger or near strangers appearance and health without actually knowing them they open themselves up to the exact same criticism and is that what we want? So why is ok just with fat people? Why can't I walk up to people I barely know and tell them I think they drink too much or they should get their teeth fixed or they really shouldn't be eating whatever they are eating. It just still shocks me that people are so ignorant and wonder why we have such a problem in our society. I see someone who has tanned the youth right out of their skin or smokes worrying about how OTHER people's unhealthy habits effect THEM... Instead of making positive and productive steps they think they can just sit back and be a jerk and people will change and then THANK them for it? It's one thing to ask for help... quite another to think it's ok to bully people "for their own good".
Are you someone who can take negativity and turn it around to work for you? Or does it drag you down?
I'm going to chalk this one up to positive. I found another source of inspiriation. I also think that the people that can be most critical should spend more time working on their own habits and health and I should be doing that more as well - which means I'm going to go do that right now.
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It's hard to tell how someone is going to take something.
The fact of the matter is the truth hurts sometimes.
I call it like I see it. Always have always will.
Am I right all the time? No.
But I will always review my actions and be willing to make amends.
All I can ask is that others do the same.
Edit: Spelling!!0 -
Plenty of people thought it was wrong for the teacher to make the comment - but there plenty of others who feel that it wasn't bullying and that overweight/obese people should be shamed or bullied into losing weight.
The problem with bullying or shaming people into losing weight is that poor self-esteem or other emotional problems are often at the heart of a great many people's over-eating issues. Adding to their poor self-esteem doesn't help them, it simply confirms all the nasty things they're already thinking about themselves.
The times in my life when I've really got down to losing weight (like now) have been times when I've been feeling confident and positive and had a lot of non-judgemental support. The times I've holed up in my house like a hermit, stuffing my face, have been the times when I've been at my most unhappy - anyone attempting to 'shame' me during those times would have only driven me to be even more self-destructive with food and drink.0 -
Well, telling it like it is isn't exactly the same. Would you turn to a classmate or coworker and tell them they are fat or obese?It's hard to tell how someone is going to take something.
The fact of the matter is the truth hurts sometimes.
I call it like I see it. Always have always will.
Am I right all the time? No.
But I will always review my actions and be willing to make amends.
All I can ask is that others do the same.
Edit: Spelling!!0 -
I don't think anyone needs to tell anyone else that they're fat/obese. It's very obvious to other people and to the person being told this.
I think it's absolutely not ok for a teacher to tell a student about their weight, even in a nice way. Children do not have control over what their parents feed them, and sometimes they aren't even allowed to leave the table without clearing the poorly chosen, nutritionally bankrupt, artery-clogging meal before them. It is not a teacher's place to speak to the student. If health were actually issue, and not just being a nasty b!tch, the teacher should raise those concerns with her principal, then they can contact the parent together.
Overall, I think people don't like to hear any negative comments made about them, no matter how well-intended or true, because the comments confirm what they already feel about themselves. I can't gauge the moment when someone will think a comment is actually bullying.0 -
It's all in the context. Was this the teacher of a 10 year old or a 17 year old for example. Culture makes a difference too. In politeness obsessed anglo Saxon cultures this would be considered rude but in many cultures it's the norm to point out weight issues and people don't bat an eyelash.0
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That someone can take an incident where a teacher calls a student fat and use it as motivation to better their life does not mean the teacher provided the catalyst for success.
Without knowing any more context (How old was this student? Was it a private conversation between teacher and student? in front of a class? Were others within earshot? was the teacher truly concerned about health issues?), it's difficult to judge the teacher's actions. But let's be clear - the teacher's actions should be judged on their own, not the resulting success (or failure) of the student. Either it was inappropriate or not.
I had more, but read this and it aligns pretty well with the rest of what I would have written:I don't think anyone needs to tell anyone else that they're fat/obese. It's very obvious to other people and to the person being told this.
I think it's absolutely not ok for a teacher to tell a student about their weight, even in a nice way. Children do not have control over what their parents feed them, and sometimes they aren't even allowed to leave the table without clearing the poorly chosen, nutritionally bankrupt, artery-clogging meal before them. It is not a teacher's place to speak to the student. If health were actually issue, and not just being a nasty b!tch, the teacher should raise those concerns with her principal, then they can contact the parent together.
Overall, I think people don't like to hear any negative comments made about them, no matter how well-intended or true, because the comments confirm what they already feel about themselves. I can't gauge the moment when someone will think a comment is actually bullying.0 -
I am fat if someone calls me fat I cant disagree or be offended. Calling them mean or a bully for it is BS and just something fat ppl in denial do. I do not judge ppl but if I am asked my opinion I tell the truth I dont sugar coat it and worry about the other persons feelings (because nowadays truth seems to be mistaken for being mean) If you want to be fat then be fat but make sure you have the insurance to pay for your medical bills down the road. You want to be a drunk be a drunk but make sure you dont get in a car and kill ppl. Do wtf you want but if it in anyway affects me whether it be in the long run(tax dollars) or immediately(you kill a loved one) I have the right to say whatever I want about it. That coupled with freedom of speech. If you dont want to be called fat dont be fat.0
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A teacher should never tell a student she is fat. If a teacher is that concerned about a student's weight, she can do a couple of things. 1. Mention it to the school nurse and have the nurse evaluate if there is a health issue. Then the nurse can contact the parents 2. Decide to have a class lecture on healthy eating and exercise for the entire class, never addressing the child in question specifically.
I also call BS on coaches who believe they need to shame their players into performing better. To me it's the same logic. You can motivate people without shaming them, especially children.0 -
Well people who are fat - are already well aware they are fat. I did not need people to tell me that, i saw it in the mirror every day.
I think this will just increase suicide rates and mental health problems - mainly depression.0 -
Been fat most of my life...it wasnt a secret to me...I was well aware of it. I dont see how pointing out the obvious to me would be a good thing.0
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Been fat most of my life...it wasnt a secret to me...I was well aware of it. I dont see how pointing out the obvious to me would be a good thing.
Would pointing out the obvious be a bad thing than? Or everyone just continue to go about like ti is never going to affect them and allow it to go on? Maybe if we did a little more talking about it and pointing it out something would get done about it. It is not okay to be fat. Not for the individual and not for society. Remaining quiet about it does nothing but in a silent way make it acceptable.0 -
Would pointing out the obvious be a bad thing than?
To a child when you're not that child's parent or doctor? Absolutely.0 -
I was aware that I was overweight; I didn't need anyone to tell me. I also honestly don't care how overweight someone chooses to be (unless government healthcare in the USA happens, not fond of possibly having to pay higher taxes to take care of someone's problems they created on their own.) Someone being 300 pounds doesn't affect me in any way. If they choose to lose weight, kudos to them. If not, why would I waste my time trying to help them when they're not willing to help themselves?
I'm not going to tell someone something that they clearly know and try to help them do something they don't want to do. Ain't nobody got time for that.
As for the story, it's not the teacher's place to say something to the child. It's the parent's. If someone mentions concerns to the child's caregiver(s) that's one thing; to say something to the kid is another and asking for a whole lot of trouble. How old was the child? Past a certain age a kid can decide how much of something to eat, even if the adults are only buying junk. An overweight 8 year old is a different case than an overweight 15 year old.0 -
You don't barely know a teacher.
That's not shaming, its education into how society and your body works.0 -
Honestly, anything said can be hurtful. I'm dealing with my 13 year old son right now having the opposite issue. He is very thin, as both my husband and I were in our younger years. At his age and metabolism, he would have a tough time gaining weight, he is just growing too darn fast. Yet people are making fun of him for being too thin. It is really impacting his self-esteem, he's asking how he can gain weight. Why is this any more ok? I have similar issues now that I've lost weight, people commenting that I shouldn't lose anymore, I'm going to whittle down to nothing, etc. I know how to brush it off, but still tired of hearing it. Doesn't mean I'm going to go put on weight.
We all have our own journeys and you never know when a person might have a health issue that is making them fat or thin or if it's just a choice. It really isn't for anyone else to decide or comment on. For all a person knows, that person has already dropped 100 lbs. If you don't have all the facts, it's better to just keep it shut.0 -
Would pointing out the obvious be a bad thing than?
To a child when you're not that child's parent or doctor? Absolutely.
Thats unrealistic....you dont think the kids arent making fun of them already? If the parents were so concerned the kid wouldnt be fat to begin with. As far as the doctor goes, hell who knows if the kid even has one these days. I commend this teacher and I hope it opens eyes to exactly where are future is headed.0 -
Honestly, anything said can be hurtful. I'm dealing with my 13 year old son right now having the opposite issue. He is very thin, as both my husband and I were in our younger years. At his age and metabolism, he would have a tough time gaining weight, he is just growing too darn fast. Yet people are making fun of him for being too thin. It is really impacting his self-esteem, he's asking how he can gain weight. Why is this any more ok? I have similar issues now that I've lost weight, people commenting that I shouldn't lose anymore, I'm going to whittle down to nothing, etc. I know how to brush it off, but still tired of hearing it. Doesn't mean I'm going to go put on weight.
We all have our own journeys and you never know when a person might have a health issue that is making them fat or thin or if it's just a choice. It really isn't for anyone else to decide or comment on. For all a person knows, that person has already dropped 100 lbs. If you don't have all the facts, it's better to just keep it shut.
The difference is.....your son it looks to be genetic. For the most part (I do not know the exact issue for this child) kids that are fat is due to eating habits which can be controlled and a child being obese can be prevented. There is no comparison when it has to do with poor diet and lack of exercise.0 -
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/12/health/cherie-steffen-weight-loss/index.html?hpt=hp_abar
Is this the story to which you're referring?0 -
I think that anyone who is fat knows it and needs not to be told by others. I also think that anyone who is fat will lose weight only if and when they decide to and commit to it. Why hurt their feelings?
once someone is committed, I do not hold back my opinions when they ask because I have learned so much (and at the beginning I felt like a lost puppy who couldn't accomplish anyting with weight loss), so I want to help them.0 -
Plenty of people thought it was wrong for the teacher to make the comment - but there plenty of others who feel that it wasn't bullying and that overweight/obese people should be shamed or bullied into losing weight.
The problem with bullying or shaming people into losing weight is that poor self-esteem or other emotional problems are often at the heart of a great many people's over-eating issues. Adding to their poor self-esteem doesn't help them, it simply confirms all the nasty things they're already thinking about themselves.
The times in my life when I've really got down to losing weight (like now) have been times when I've been feeling confident and positive and had a lot of non-judgemental support. The times I've holed up in my house like a hermit, stuffing my face, have been the times when I've been at my most unhappy - anyone attempting to 'shame' me during those times would have only driven me to be even more self-destructive with food and drink.
THIS!!!!!!!!0 -
Just call all fat people "healthy" and "skinny." That'll solve everything.0
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/12/health/cherie-steffen-weight-loss/index.html?hpt=hp_abar
Is this the story to which you're referring?
If it is the story that is no child lol But it kicked her fat *kitten* into gear she is now a nutritionist! Makes me smile :happy:0 -
A teacher should never tell a student she is fat. If a teacher is that concerned about a student's weight, she can do a couple of things. 1. Mention it to the school nurse and have the nurse evaluate if there is a health issue. Then the nurse can contact the parents 2. Decide to have a class lecture on healthy eating and exercise for the entire class, never addressing the child in question specifically.
I also call BS on coaches who believe they need to shame their players into performing better. To me it's the same logic. You can motivate people without shaming them, especially children.
As a health teacher, it is in my curriculum to teach about healthy eating and nutrition. While I do not call out any student for being overweight, and trust me, I have a few overweight students in my class, I WILL emphasize the importance of eating a balanced diet, stick to the calorie levels kids this age should be consuming, and inform them of the amount of calories, sugar, sodium and fat there are in local fast food restaurants. They LEARN this information so they can make better choices. But, the choice to eat what they eat remains entirely up to them -- and I do not "shame" anyone. What I hope to have happen is what happened last year with my students: "Wow, there are 37 teaspoons full of sugar in that Sonic fruit smoothie!" "Wow, there are 850 calories in that one slice of loaded pizza!" "WHOA, one BK whopper with cheese, large fry and large coke is nearly an ENTIRE day's worth of calories!"
That's what they learn -- and no one is shamed in the process.0 -
If it is the story that is no child lol But it kicked her fat *kitten* into gear she is now a nutritionist! Makes me smile :happy:
No, definitely NOT a child. I still find what the teacher said and how/where it was said to be very offensive and inappropriate.0 -
While it is very true that my son's issue is most likely genetic (it doesn't make it any less hurtful), I was trying to point out that no one truly knows the reason for a person's situation. You can't assume it's always poor nutrition and even in the event that it is, telling an eight year old (as an example) that they are overweight is likely not going to have a positive impact and it's the parents that truly need to help the child change those habits. My son is 13 and telling him it's genetics doesn't make him feel any better about his situation (I've tried). Unfortunately, in today's society it has become more accepted to be overweight, making it that much more difficult.Honestly, anything said can be hurtful. I'm dealing with my 13 year old son right now having the opposite issue. He is very thin, as both my husband and I were in our younger years. At his age and metabolism, he would have a tough time gaining weight, he is just growing too darn fast. Yet people are making fun of him for being too thin. It is really impacting his self-esteem, he's asking how he can gain weight. Why is this any more ok? I have similar issues now that I've lost weight, people commenting that I shouldn't lose anymore, I'm going to whittle down to nothing, etc. I know how to brush it off, but still tired of hearing it. Doesn't mean I'm going to go put on weight.
We all have our own journeys and you never know when a person might have a health issue that is making them fat or thin or if it's just a choice. It really isn't for anyone else to decide or comment on. For all a person knows, that person has already dropped 100 lbs. If you don't have all the facts, it's better to just keep it shut.
The difference is.....your son it looks to be genetic. For the most part (I do not know the exact issue for this child) kids that are fat is due to eating habits which can be controlled and a child being obese can be prevented. There is no comparison when it has to do with poor diet and lack of exercise.0 -
If it is the story that is no child lol But it kicked her fat *kitten* into gear she is now a nutritionist! Makes me smile :happy:
No, definitely NOT a child. I still find what the teacher said and how/where it was said to be very offensive and inappropriate.
The mothers dying words were to lose weight lmao Do you find that offensive? Of course not because you are going to say it is her mom. She was a grown woman ffs mom or not she had to be told she was too fat lol Maybe if her teacher would have told her about 16 yrs prior her college prof never would have had the chance :laugh:0 -
I was aware that I was overweight; I didn't need anyone to tell me. I also honestly don't care how overweight someone chooses to be (unless government healthcare in the USA happens, not fond of possibly having to pay higher taxes to take care of someone's problems they created on their own.)
You are aware government funded healthcare IS supported by tax dollars, right? I support Universal healthcare, I'm just wanting to make sure we're on the same page.
The context of the comment wasn't given about the teacher and student. Was it a health class (a perfectly okay environment to talk about the ill effects of obesity, as long as it's done so objectively and respectfully), was the student even American? As someone else pointed out, many other cultures see "you're too fat" on the same level as "you have lint on your shirt" (more or less. you know what I'm saying - they're pointing out a problem you may want to fix). Did the teacher have any right to be rude?Absolutely not.
There's also a difference between shaming someone for being a fattie and sitting down with a particular student who may have weight issues and voicing your concerns in a supportive manner. Yes, I WOULD do that with someone who tanned too much, smoke too much, or drank too much (and I have. It resulted in one of my best friends attending AA, and now she's been 3 years sober and better off for it). It may surprise you, but teachers don't go into teaching for the money. They care about their students. Not saying every teacher is even close to perfect, but again, context is key and I feel like we weren't given any.
Also, I'm kind of amused at the people who say it's no place for the school to voice concerns over weight issues, and then turn around and complain that public schools need to practically babysit their precious little snowflakes for them ("help you with homework? You were supposed to learn that at school!" "Why didn't the school teach you about how to do taxes or do your laundry?... It's not MY place to make sure you grow into a well adjusted, functioning adult or anything! ")0 -
I was aware that I was overweight; I didn't need anyone to tell me. I also honestly don't care how overweight someone chooses to be (unless government healthcare in the USA happens, not fond of possibly having to pay higher taxes to take care of someone's problems they created on their own.)
You are aware government funded healthcare IS supported by tax dollars, right? I support Universal healthcare, I'm just wanting to make sure we're on the same page.
The context of the comment wasn't given about the teacher and student. Was it a health class (a perfectly okay environment to talk about the ill effects of obesity, as long as it's done so objectively and respectfully), was the student even American? As someone else pointed out, many other cultures see "you're too fat" on the same level as "you have lint on your shirt" (more or less. you know what I'm saying - they're pointing out a problem you may want to fix). Did the teacher have any right to be rude?Absolutely not.
There's also a difference between shaming someone for being a fattie and sitting down with a particular student who may have weight issues and voicing your concerns in a supportive manner. Yes, I WOULD do that with someone who tanned too much, smoke too much, or drank too much (and I have. It resulted in one of my best friends attending AA, and now she's been 3 years sober and better off for it). It may surprise you, but teachers don't go into teaching for the money. They care about their students. Not saying every teacher is even close to perfect, but again, context is key and I feel like we weren't given any.
Also, I'm kind of amused at the people who say it's no place for the school to voice concerns over weight issues, and then turn around and complain that public schools need to practically babysit their precious little snowflakes for them ("help you with homework? You were supposed to learn that at school!" "Why didn't the school teach you about how to do taxes or do your laundry?... It's not MY place to make sure you grow into a well adjusted, functioning adult or anything! ")
You are absolutely right, there! We teachers are charged with the responsibility of educating our students in manners pertaining to their health and welfare. We can talk all we want, provide excellent lessons and hands on learning, but ultimately, the responsibility falls with the student and the parents. I was once told "You spend more time with my daughter than her mom and I do - please remember how important a role model you are to her." That was a very honest and insightful comment from a dad, and I took it to heart. I treat these kids like they're my own -- I hurt when they do, celebrate when they do, and discipline them appropriately when I need to, and yet SOME parents have accused me of stepping over my bounds (by pointing out healthy eating, or making them do chores in my room -- the HORRORS!). Teachers have to walk a fine line every day. Some parents are okay with this, others are not.0 -
All contextual. If I was a teacher I'd never call out a student on being fat, it's not breaking any rules and isn't relevant. However I reached a level where I got fat to the point where even my closest friends were mocking and ridiculing me for it. Shaming, if you like. That was a big trigger for me to fix it. I'm eternally grateful for being shamed. Some of the "support" I see on here just pandering and being ridiculously nice to everyone seems very counter-intuitive. Don't tell me I look amazing when I don't. It's not helpful, and makes me distrust you.0
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I was aware that I was overweight; I didn't need anyone to tell me. I also honestly don't care how overweight someone chooses to be (unless government healthcare in the USA happens, not fond of possibly having to pay higher taxes to take care of someone's problems they created on their own.)
You are aware government funded healthcare IS supported by tax dollars, right? I support Universal healthcare, I'm just wanting to make sure we're on the same page.
The context of the comment wasn't given about the teacher and student. Was it a health class (a perfectly okay environment to talk about the ill effects of obesity, as long as it's done so objectively and respectfully), was the student even American? As someone else pointed out, many other cultures see "you're too fat" on the same level as "you have lint on your shirt" (more or less. you know what I'm saying - they're pointing out a problem you may want to fix). Did the teacher have any right to be rude?Absolutely not.
There's also a difference between shaming someone for being a fattie and sitting down with a particular student who may have weight issues and voicing your concerns in a supportive manner. Yes, I WOULD do that with someone who tanned too much, smoke too much, or drank too much (and I have. It resulted in one of my best friends attending AA, and now she's been 3 years sober and better off for it). It may surprise you, but teachers don't go into teaching for the money. They care about their students. Not saying every teacher is even close to perfect, but again, context is key and I feel like we weren't given any.
Also, I'm kind of amused at the people who say it's no place for the school to voice concerns over weight issues, and then turn around and complain that public schools need to practically babysit their precious little snowflakes for them ("help you with homework? You were supposed to learn that at school!" "Why didn't the school teach you about how to do taxes or do your laundry?... It's not MY place to make sure you grow into a well adjusted, functioning adult or anything! ")
You are absolutely right, there! We teachers are charged with the responsibility of educating our students in manners pertaining to their health and welfare. We can talk all we want, provide excellent lessons and hands on learning, but ultimately, the responsibility falls with the student and the parents. I was once told "You spend more time with my daughter than her mom and I do - please remember how important a role model you are to her." That was a very honest and insightful comment from a dad, and I took it to heart. I treat these kids like they're my own -- I hurt when they do, celebrate when they do, and discipline them appropriately when I need to, and yet SOME parents have accused me of stepping over my bounds (by pointing out healthy eating, or making them do chores in my room -- the HORRORS!). Teachers have to walk a fine line every day. Some parents are okay with this, others are not.
Yerp! And as soon as their kid is getting d's and f's its your fault lol not the fact they never asked the kid if he/she had homework...not the fact they didnt monitor wtf their kids do from the time they get out of school lol Is it just me or does everything seem to go back to accountability lol SMH0
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