Criticism vs Shaming
Replies
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This post has received a lot of responses. I'll try to be brief for anyone who's still reading.
My response is similar to how I feel about the "Biggest Loser" type of encouragement. The trainer in your face, telling you that you've been lazy and irresponsible, shaming you into working out harder. . . telling you that you're not doing well enough, etc.
This is a bad form of "encouragement". We should be building people up with positive encouragement. Think of it when it comes to encouraging kids in school. Should we challenge kids to do well in school by suggesting that they are losers or stupid if they can't get an "A"? If motivating people to do something well is supposed to build confidence, I don't see how that can be done by tearing someone down. Others point out that obese people have poor self-confidence. Shaming them or humiliating them in front of others is psychologically damaging and wrong. Being kind, empathetic, and concerned is one thing. Being rude, judgmental, and harsh for effect is almost never called for. I can't think of a compassionate human being using humiliation or shaming to motivate someone to do something. It's just wrong. If we can't call kids stupid or losers to motivate them to do better in school, why should it be any different with obese people?
Edit: And technically, to humiliate or make fun of a student in class about his weight could be construed as a form of harassment. A kid who knew his rights might appeal to his parents to sue the school. They would have a fair chance of winning. Students are entitled to a safe learning environment, just as workers are entitled to a safe working environment. A kid *does not* have a choice to attend school. A teacher *does*. Teacher should keep this in mind. Their students are usually forced by state law, or by their parents (in high school), to go to school. We already have enough problems in education without shaming our children about their weight in the presence of their peers. Kids are cruel enough to each other as it is, why should the adults model this behavior to students?
You've got a strong point, but negative reinforcement sometimes can be just as helpful if not more beneficial to the person. Strict positive reinforcement with no negative reinforcement is not a good idea. Sorry.
Negative reinforcement may be beneficial in some situations, but in this case, I don't think it is the teacher's place to shame kids about their weight. Leave that to the parents. Shaming kids in front of their peers at school is cruel and damaging. School bullying is a big problem, and if the teachers join in on the bullying, it definitely sends the wrong message, and actually makes the problem of bullying worse.
Edit: Also "negative reinforcement" does not refer to just shaming and humiliation. Negative reinforcement in parenting is like saying, "If you keep sassing your mother, you're grounded." Or, "If you don't do your chores, you won't get allowance." See the difference? Negative reinforcement is another tool for parents and teachers, but humiliation is not some fundamental part of it that needs to be there. A teacher might say, "If you fail this class, you will have to retake it." Or, "If you don't learn basic math, it will hindrance your future." This is all negative reinforcement, but not the same thing as a teacher announcing, "John can't subtract, he must be a real idiot. . ."0 -
I don't think shaming is productive at all. Shame and desperation make people buy into stupid fad starvation diets so restrictive they give up and gain their weight back and then some. Shame skews your relationship with food so that starving is righteous and the inevitable binging that follows brings on such self-loathing that you give up hope. Shame makes you feel trapped and helpless in your own body. Shame makes you unable to bear the thought of exercising publicly.
Well said. Agreed.
Edit: sorry for the double-post.0 -
any suggestions for getting to NOT reach for a second cupcake for dessert? Spring musical. parents cook for kids between afternoon and evening rehearsal. Fat girl has 4 cupcakes after eating the salad and pasta and veggies...A teacher should never tell a student she is fat. If a teacher is that concerned about a student's weight, she can do a couple of things. 1. Mention it to the school nurse and have the nurse evaluate if there is a health issue. Then the nurse can contact the parents 2. Decide to have a class lecture on healthy eating and exercise for the entire class, never addressing the child in question specifically.
I also call BS on coaches who believe they need to shame their players into performing better. To me it's the same logic. You can motivate people without shaming them, especially children.
As a health teacher, it is in my curriculum to teach about healthy eating and nutrition. While I do not call out any student for being overweight, and trust me, I have a few overweight students in my class, I WILL emphasize the importance of eating a balanced diet, stick to the calorie levels kids this age should be consuming, and inform them of the amount of calories, sugar, sodium and fat there are in local fast food restaurants. They LEARN this information so they can make better choices. But, the choice to eat what they eat remains entirely up to them -- and I do not "shame" anyone. What I hope to have happen is what happened last year with my students: "Wow, there are 37 teaspoons full of sugar in that Sonic fruit smoothie!" "Wow, there are 850 calories in that one slice of loaded pizza!" "WHOA, one BK whopper with cheese, large fry and large coke is nearly an ENTIRE day's worth of calories!"
That's what they learn -- and no one is shamed in the process.
Our school has a policy about bringing in sweets for the kids. Kids are only allowed 1 treat per child, and 1 healthy option. The parents and students in my class/grade KNOW I don't eat gluten, because I tell them "No thanks, I can't" - so they will make sure something healthy is sent in for me. Also, I encourage my students to bring in healthy snacks for our mid morning snacks -- pretzels, fruit, popcorn, etc, while I eat dark cocoa almonds or a piece of fruit. I also say "What you eat for lunch is YOUR business, but what you eat in MY ROOM, is MY business."0 -
any suggestions for getting to NOT reach for a second cupcake for dessert? Spring musical. parents cook for kids between afternoon and evening rehearsal. Fat girl has 4 cupcakes after eating the salad and pasta and veggies...A teacher should never tell a student she is fat. If a teacher is that concerned about a student's weight, she can do a couple of things. 1. Mention it to the school nurse and have the nurse evaluate if there is a health issue. Then the nurse can contact the parents 2. Decide to have a class lecture on healthy eating and exercise for the entire class, never addressing the child in question specifically.
I also call BS on coaches who believe they need to shame their players into performing better. To me it's the same logic. You can motivate people without shaming them, especially children.
As a health teacher, it is in my curriculum to teach about healthy eating and nutrition. While I do not call out any student for being overweight, and trust me, I have a few overweight students in my class, I WILL emphasize the importance of eating a balanced diet, stick to the calorie levels kids this age should be consuming, and inform them of the amount of calories, sugar, sodium and fat there are in local fast food restaurants. They LEARN this information so they can make better choices. But, the choice to eat what they eat remains entirely up to them -- and I do not "shame" anyone. What I hope to have happen is what happened last year with my students: "Wow, there are 37 teaspoons full of sugar in that Sonic fruit smoothie!" "Wow, there are 850 calories in that one slice of loaded pizza!" "WHOA, one BK whopper with cheese, large fry and large coke is nearly an ENTIRE day's worth of calories!"
That's what they learn -- and no one is shamed in the process.
Our school has a policy about bringing in sweets for the kids. Kids are only allowed 1 treat per child, and 1 healthy option. The parents and students in my class/grade KNOW I don't eat gluten, because I tell them "No thanks, I can't" - so they will make sure something healthy is sent in for me. Also, I encourage my students to bring in healthy snacks for our mid morning snacks -- pretzels, fruit, popcorn, etc, while I eat dark cocoa almonds or a piece of fruit. I also say "What you eat for lunch is YOUR business, but what you eat in MY ROOM, is MY business."
^^^^^^
Leading by example! Our school doesnt allow junk for snack either. So my 12 yr old takes granola bar or fruit lol I make him take a box to school every week in case the other kids who parents dont care come to school empty handed. 0 -
This post has received a lot of responses. I'll try to be brief for anyone who's still reading.
My response is similar to how I feel about the "Biggest Loser" type of encouragement. The trainer in your face, telling you that you've been lazy and irresponsible, shaming you into working out harder. . . telling you that you're not doing well enough, etc.
This is a bad form of "encouragement". We should be building people up with positive encouragement. Think of it when it comes to encouraging kids in school. Should we challenge kids to do well in school by suggesting that they are losers or stupid if they can't get an "A"? If motivating people to do something well is supposed to build confidence, I don't see how that can be done by tearing someone down. Others point out that obese people have poor self-confidence. Shaming them or humiliating them in front of others is psychologically damaging and wrong. Being kind, empathetic, and concerned is one thing. Being rude, judgmental, and harsh for effect is almost never called for. I can't think of a compassionate human being using humiliation or shaming to motivate someone to do something. It's just wrong. If we can't call kids stupid or losers to motivate them to do better in school, why should it be any different with obese people?
Edit: And technically, to humiliate or make fun of a student in class about his weight could be construed as a form of harassment. A kid who knew his rights might appeal to his parents to sue the school. They would have a fair chance of winning. Students are entitled to a safe learning environment, just as workers are entitled to a safe working environment. A kid *does not* have a choice to attend school. A teacher *does*. Teacher should keep this in mind. Their students are usually forced by state law, or by their parents (in high school), to go to school. We already have enough problems in education without shaming our children about their weight in the presence of their peers. Kids are cruel enough to each other as it is, why should the adults model this behavior to students?
You've got a strong point, but negative reinforcement sometimes can be just as helpful if not more beneficial to the person. Strict positive reinforcement with no negative reinforcement is not a good idea. Sorry.
Negative reinforcement may be beneficial in some situations, but in this case, I don't think it is the teacher's place to shame kids about their weight. Leave that to the parents. Shaming kids in front of their peers at school is cruel and damaging. School bullying is a big problem, and if the teachers join in on the bullying, it definitely sends the wrong message, and actually makes the problem of bullying worse.
Edit: Also "negative reinforcement" does not refer to just shaming and humiliation. Negative reinforcement in parenting is like saying, "If you keep sassing your mother, you're grounded." Or, "If you don't do your chores, you won't get allowance." See the difference? Negative reinforcement is another tool for parents and teachers, but humiliation is not some fundamental part of it that needs to be there. A teacher might say, "If you fail this class, you will have to retake it." Or, "If you don't learn basic math, it will hindrance your future." This is all negative reinforcement, but not the same thing as a teacher announcing, "John can't subtract, he must be a real idiot. . ."
I am aware of the difference. But what you said was positive "encouragement" which is the same thing as positive reinforcement, and you applied it to situations other than what we are talking about here, and so have I.0 -
Ironically, being bullied for something usually just makes that person do it even more. I.e. if you're overweight and you get picked on for it, you usually end up eating more.0
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so is there a good answer? I have a student feeling more and more 'trapped in her body' she's 7th grade at a performing arts high school and has trouble getting up and down off the floor... kneeling and stuff. her family is uniformly large and she's following right in line. getting taller and rounder and it's harder for her to move and is definitely seeing other kids pass her up in performance. It's a school policy we're not allowed to talk to kids about their weight, but I did point out one day that I had one cupcake, not 4 after eating a full meal.Shame makes you feel trapped and helpless in your own body. Shame makes you unable to bear the thought of exercising publicly.0 -
Negative reinforcement may be beneficial in some situations, but in this case, I don't think it is the teacher's place to shame kids about their weight. Leave that to the parents. Shaming kids in front of their peers at school is cruel and damaging. School bullying is a big problem, and if the teachers join in on the bullying, it definitely sends the wrong message, and actually makes the problem of bullying worse.
Edit: Also "negative reinforcement" does not refer to just shaming and humiliation. Negative reinforcement in parenting is like saying, "If you keep sassing your mother, you're grounded." Or, "If you don't do your chores, you won't get allowance." See the difference? Negative reinforcement is another tool for parents and teachers, but humiliation is not some fundamental part of it that needs to be there. A teacher might say, "If you fail this class, you will have to retake it." Or, "If you don't learn basic math, it will hindrance your future." This is all negative reinforcement, but not the same thing as a teacher announcing, "John can't subtract, he must be a real idiot. . ."
I am aware of the difference. But what you said was positive "encouragement" which is the same thing as positive reinforcement, and you applied it to situations other than what we are talking about here, and so have I.
I equated shaming or humiliating in one sense (grades and intelligence), with shaming someone about their weight.
The comparison was made to suggest that if it is wrong to humiliate a student to get them to achieve better grades, it is also wrong to shame or humiliate them in front of their peers to get them to want to lose weight. The role of whether the latter was even in the teacher's job was also raised.
I agree with you that endless positive reinforcement and praising children for no actual accomplishments is a bad thing. George Carlin criticized the culture of hyper-positivity and whether excessive confidence building was actually positive for children. Endlessly telling kids that they are amazing is not good. Humility should at least be a value. This endless culture of, "you are so great and amazing, and everything you do is amazing" is a problem with our notions of child-rearing today. But I think you are confusing that fair complaint with the reality that what this teacher did to the student in front of his peers is outside of her domain, is quite possibly illegal (harassment), and is not the best form of motivation for someone who is obese. I mentioned the instance of calling kids stupid as an example of what we can all agree as not acceptable behavior. The same logic applies to this.
And while you are allowed to bring up other areas, what you have not done is challenged the central issue of whether the teacher has any legitimate ability to shame a student in front of his peers about his weight.
And, I will preemptively state that, even if some overweight/obese people think that shame and public humiliation is a great motivator for them, they should not get the right to speak for the rest of us. In a majority of cases, shaming a person about their weight in front of their peers is bad behavior. And while you focus on an issue that wasn't at the heart of what I was saying: positive reinforcement, what my main point was whether shaming and humiliation are necessary parts of negative reinforcement. Most of what I said had to do with negative reinforcement.
So you have blurred the issue, which is simply whether humiliation and shaming are necessary forms of negative reinforcement. I have suggested that they aren't, and that, for the teacher to employ them in the classroom is both ethically and legally wrong.0 -
There is a time and place for everything. An honest word, spoken at the right time, can sometimes be the kindest thing you can do for a person. However, there is never a proper time or pace for bullying or shaming.0
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And while you are allowed to bring up other areas, what you have not done is challenged the central issue of whether the teacher has any legitimate ability to shame a student in front of his peers about his weight.
I get what you are saying. To this, though, I don't know if it's just wording or if you mean ability. Of course she had the ability, everyone has the ability to shame someone. It's more of a question of whether she had the right to do so.
I do believe in this case, though I have not read the story, that if the teacher was truly worried about this child being obese she could have done something more constructive, like tell the class "we're all going to bring healthy snacks tomorrow." That way the kid doesn't feel singled out and the teacher feels like she can do something. That's just assuming it was a young child anyway.0 -
And while you are allowed to bring up other areas, what you have not done is challenged the central issue of whether the teacher has any legitimate ability to shame a student in front of his peers about his weight.
I get what you are saying. To this, though, I don't know if it's just wording or if you mean ability. Of course she had the ability, everyone has the ability to shame someone. It's more of a question of whether she had the right to do so.
I do believe in this case, though I have not read the story, that if the teacher was truly worried about this child being obese she could have done something more constructive, like tell the class "we're all going to bring healthy snacks tomorrow." That way the kid doesn't feel singled out and the teacher feels like she can do something. That's just assuming it was a young child anyway.
teachers dont get paid enough for this chit0 -
And while you are allowed to bring up other areas, what you have not done is challenged the central issue of whether the teacher has any legitimate ability to shame a student in front of his peers about his weight.
I get what you are saying. To this, though, I don't know if it's just wording or if you mean ability. Of course she had the ability, everyone has the ability to shame someone. It's more of a question of whether she had the right to do so.
I do believe in this case, though I have not read the story, that if the teacher was truly worried about this child being obese she could have done something more constructive, like tell the class "we're all going to bring healthy snacks tomorrow." That way the kid doesn't feel singled out and the teacher feels like she can do something. That's just assuming it was a young child anyway.
teachers dont get paid enough for this chit
No, teachers don't get paid enough for what they do. But they don't have any more right to call a kid fat than a police officer or a cashier or a plumber does. See what I mean?0 -
I think it really depends on the situation. If this teacher was close with the student and the comment was respectful, I don't see a problem with it. In the same way I might tell a loved one about dangers of going tanning or drinking too much. But I wouldn't talk to someone I didn't know well about that.0
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This, to me, is the same situation as the guy who wrote that news gal in Wisconsin a few months back and told her he was disappointed with her weight issues. It's no ones business to tell another person if they are fat or not. We know we are. There are many reasons we are over weight and a teacher, friend, or perfect stranger don't know all the circumstances. There could be medical issues, there could be emotional issues, etc.
99 times out of 100, the over weight person already knows it anyway. Telling me isn't going to shame or guilt me into doing something about it. All its going to do is make me mad at you and run for a box of donuts or Oreo's to make me feel better. I have to make that decision on my own.
The teacher was wrong in telling the kid that. I didn't see the story about it, but it doesn't matter. No one has the right to say something to someone else about their weight. It's just rude and demeaning and a form of bullying.0 -
A teacher should never tell a student she is fat. If a teacher is that concerned about a student's weight, she can do a couple of things. 1. Mention it to the school nurse and have the nurse evaluate if there is a health issue. Then the nurse can contact the parents 2. Decide to have a class lecture on healthy eating and exercise for the entire class, never addressing the child in question specifically.
I also call BS on coaches who believe they need to shame their players into performing better. To me it's the same logic. You can motivate people without shaming them, especially children.
As a health teacher, it is in my curriculum to teach about healthy eating and nutrition. While I do not call out any student for being overweight, and trust me, I have a few overweight students in my class, I WILL emphasize the importance of eating a balanced diet, stick to the calorie levels kids this age should be consuming, and inform them of the amount of calories, sugar, sodium and fat there are in local fast food restaurants. They LEARN this information so they can make better choices. But, the choice to eat what they eat remains entirely up to them -- and I do not "shame" anyone. What I hope to have happen is what happened last year with my students: "Wow, there are 37 teaspoons full of sugar in that Sonic fruit smoothie!" "Wow, there are 850 calories in that one slice of loaded pizza!" "WHOA, one BK whopper with cheese, large fry and large coke is nearly an ENTIRE day's worth of calories!"
That's what they learn -- and no one is shamed in the process.
^This. I have been a health teacher, but now I'm teaching special ed. There are ways to empower people to learn about healthy habits without ever calling on individuals.0 -
If someone is obese, they don't need to be told they are. I'm sure realise this themselves. If someone had called me fat before i lost weight, I would have eaten a load of junk food to make myself feel better! You have to want it for yourself.
My mother always gave me a hard time about my weight. She would insult me all the time and I had no confidence at all. She thought she was helping me by giving me the 'tough love' approach. The more she critized me the more I would binge. Maybe it's a coincidence but I started to lose weight a few weeks after I moved in with my then boyfriend.
One thing that did stick with me was a co-worker at my previous job commenting on how much I ate and how greedy I was. I laughed it off because I didn't know how else to react. I was shocked. After that I barely ate in work and saved my junk food for evenings and weekends. To this day, I do not eat crap in front of my co-workers. Ever0 -
And while you are allowed to bring up other areas, what you have not done is challenged the central issue of whether the teacher has any legitimate ability to shame a student in front of his peers about his weight.
I get what you are saying. To this, though, I don't know if it's just wording or if you mean ability. Of course she had the ability, everyone has the ability to shame someone. It's more of a question of whether she had the right to do so.
I do believe in this case, though I have not read the story, that if the teacher was truly worried about this child being obese she could have done something more constructive, like tell the class "we're all going to bring healthy snacks tomorrow." That way the kid doesn't feel singled out and the teacher feels like she can do something. That's just assuming it was a young child anyway.
teachers dont get paid enough for this chit
No, teachers don't get paid enough for what they do. But they don't have any more right to call a kid fat than a police officer or a cashier or a plumber does. See what I mean?
Everyone has the right to say what they want. Is it always taken as nice? No. If you dont want to be labeled or called fat dont be fat. Same goes for everything else in life. You lie you get called a liar. You drink too much you are called a drunk. You do drugs you are called a druggie. If you dont like to be called out on your issues...resolve them. Dont be mad or place blame on the person saying what they see in front of them. Many great ppl turned out just fine and dandy from shaming. You cant call the sky green when it it so obvious it is blue.0 -
And while you are allowed to bring up other areas, what you have not done is challenged the central issue of whether the teacher has any legitimate ability to shame a student in front of his peers about his weight.
I get what you are saying. To this, though, I don't know if it's just wording or if you mean ability. Of course she had the ability, everyone has the ability to shame someone. It's more of a question of whether she had the right to do so.
I do believe in this case, though I have not read the story, that if the teacher was truly worried about this child being obese she could have done something more constructive, like tell the class "we're all going to bring healthy snacks tomorrow." That way the kid doesn't feel singled out and the teacher feels like she can do something. That's just assuming it was a young child anyway.
teachers dont get paid enough for this chit
No, teachers don't get paid enough for what they do. But they don't have any more right to call a kid fat than a police officer or a cashier or a plumber does. See what I mean?
Everyone has the right to say what they want. Is it always taken as nice? No. If you dont want to be labeled or called fat dont be fat. Same goes for everything else in life. You lie you get called a liar. You drink too much you are called a drunk. You do drugs you are called a druggie. If you dont like to be called out on your issues...resolve them. Dont be mad or place blame on the person saying what they see in front of them. Many great ppl turned out just fine and dandy from shaming. You cant call the sky green when it it so obvious it is blue.
Now, doll, you KNOW I love ya, BUT just because we've been given the right to free speech doesn't mean we can abuse others with it. There is a line that shouldn't be crossed when it comes to a teacher singling out and verbally abusing a student. That's one I won't cross, but you can bet I am very firm with my students (6th graders) when they need a good old fashioned calling out.
NOW, however, the students KNOW I am totally funning with them, and since it's towards the end of the year, I WILL say goofy things at funny times, like when a student is walking back into the room after a drink -- I will say, just out of the blue, with a smile in my voice "And ANOTHER THING I don't like about Dylan is..." and look at Dylan out of the corner of my eye and wink. That's a way to get his attention focused back on class. None of it is ever said with mean spiritedness or rudeness. The kids totally know I'm kidding.
In fact, two boys yesterday were talking at each other from across the room (there's a reason why they're that far from each other), and after I had told each of them twice to stop, and they hadn't, I changed my words to: "Boys, stop before the rest of the class starts to think you're flirting with each other! There's no flirting allowed" Oh did THAT get them to stop!0 -
"Hey, I think your weight might be affecting your health" and "Hey, your weight is affecting the way you look in those clothes" are two totally different statements. The first might show concern and the second just shows you being an ignorant, superficial, judgmental *kitten*.
Not to mention, to be able to sit there and "coach" other people on how to exercise and how to eat right is a totally privileged position. If you have access to open, safe outdoor spaces and an actual grocery store where you can buy fresh produce, you're in actuality extremely lucky.
Same as saying you are fat just in a beating around the bush way......and as far as privileged positions of "coaching" we all do it on a daily basis with our BFFF's by motivating them to exercise or make better eating choices. Exercising and groceries have nothing to do with "luck" you either do what you need to do or you make excuses to stay where you are.
Not if you live in a food desert and the only place you can get groceries is a 7-11, and you live somewhere where there are no gyms and going jogging can get you shot.
Edit: And, motivating someone and calling them out are different things. If you have a friend and you are both on the same page with exercising and eating, it's an appropriate situation to discuss fitness goals. If you are only acquaintances with someone and you call them out for what you think is unhealthy, it's not exactly your place to do so.0 -
Yes I do once I know them and especially if they are putting on weight fast0
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"Hey, I think your weight might be affecting your health" and "Hey, your weight is affecting the way you look in those clothes" are two totally different statements. The first might show concern and the second just shows you being an ignorant, superficial, judgmental *kitten*.
Not to mention, to be able to sit there and "coach" other people on how to exercise and how to eat right is a totally privileged position. If you have access to open, safe outdoor spaces and an actual grocery store where you can buy fresh produce, you're in actuality extremely lucky.
Same as saying you are fat just in a beating around the bush way......and as far as privileged positions of "coaching" we all do it on a daily basis with our BFFF's by motivating them to exercise or make better eating choices. Exercising and groceries have nothing to do with "luck" you either do what you need to do or you make excuses to stay where you are.
Not if you live in a food desert and the only place you can get groceries is a 7-11, and you live somewhere where there are no gyms and going jogging can get you shot.
Edit: And, motivating someone and calling them out are different things. If you have a friend and you are both on the same page with exercising and eating, it's an appropriate situation to discuss fitness goals. If you are only acquaintances with someone and you call them out for what you think is unhealthy, it's not exactly your place to do so.
If you are in the situation you mentioned above how the hell did you get fat? Wouldnt you be hiding and running from bullets *rolls eyes* When you re-enter realities atmosphere I will continue this convo. Until then carry on with whatever you are doing to post such a ridiculous comment lol Everyone knows 7-11 sells fruit. And I hardly leave my house and workout out. Such BS lol
EHHHHHHH.....try again! lol0 -
People do not always know how big they are and having a loving supportive family what support you and feed you your favourites. Do the walking for you and always give you the front seat is not always helpful. If the whole family and all friends are big them it is " normal. I weighed 120kg dropped to 80kg which was still obese but everyone thought I had lost too much because they were used to me being morbidly obese.0
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Oh and I get told, but you have african curves. True but I would still have those curves at 65kg with a healthier heart.0
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Ah yes, how could I forget the fruit! Shame on me. Sometimes I get so caught up in issues of segregation and poverty that plague the city of Chicago and the nation as a whole that I forget about 7-11's over-priced health food options that nicely accompany the Big Gulps, candy bars, and flasks of liquor."Hey, I think your weight might be affecting your health" and "Hey, your weight is affecting the way you look in those clothes" are two totally different statements. The first might show concern and the second just shows you being an ignorant, superficial, judgmental *kitten*.
Not to mention, to be able to sit there and "coach" other people on how to exercise and how to eat right is a totally privileged position. If you have access to open, safe outdoor spaces and an actual grocery store where you can buy fresh produce, you're in actuality extremely lucky.
Same as saying you are fat just in a beating around the bush way......and as far as privileged positions of "coaching" we all do it on a daily basis with our BFFF's by motivating them to exercise or make better eating choices. Exercising and groceries have nothing to do with "luck" you either do what you need to do or you make excuses to stay where you are.
Not if you live in a food desert and the only place you can get groceries is a 7-11, and you live somewhere where there are no gyms and going jogging can get you shot.
Edit: And, motivating someone and calling them out are different things. If you have a friend and you are both on the same page with exercising and eating, it's an appropriate situation to discuss fitness goals. If you are only acquaintances with someone and you call them out for what you think is unhealthy, it's not exactly your place to do so.
If you are in the situation you mentioned above how the hell did you get fat? Wouldnt you be hiding and running from bullets *rolls eyes* When you re-enter realities atmosphere I will continue this convo. Until then carry on with whatever you are doing to post such a ridiculous comment lol Everyone knows 7-11 sells fruit. And I hardly leave my house and workout out. Such BS lol
EHHHHHHH.....try again! lol
Good luck on your future endeavors of bacon and fat-shaming.0 -
Ah yes, how could I forget the fruit! Shame on me. Sometimes I get so caught up in issues of segregation and poverty that plague the city of Chicago and the nation as a whole that I forget about 7-11's over-priced health food options that nicely accompany the Big Gulps, candy bars, and flasks of liquor."Hey, I think your weight might be affecting your health" and "Hey, your weight is affecting the way you look in those clothes" are two totally different statements. The first might show concern and the second just shows you being an ignorant, superficial, judgmental *kitten*.
Not to mention, to be able to sit there and "coach" other people on how to exercise and how to eat right is a totally privileged position. If you have access to open, safe outdoor spaces and an actual grocery store where you can buy fresh produce, you're in actuality extremely lucky.
Same as saying you are fat just in a beating around the bush way......and as far as privileged positions of "coaching" we all do it on a daily basis with our BFFF's by motivating them to exercise or make better eating choices. Exercising and groceries have nothing to do with "luck" you either do what you need to do or you make excuses to stay where you are.
Not if you live in a food desert and the only place you can get groceries is a 7-11, and you live somewhere where there are no gyms and going jogging can get you shot.
Edit: And, motivating someone and calling them out are different things. If you have a friend and you are both on the same page with exercising and eating, it's an appropriate situation to discuss fitness goals. If you are only acquaintances with someone and you call them out for what you think is unhealthy, it's not exactly your place to do so.
If you are in the situation you mentioned above how the hell did you get fat? Wouldnt you be hiding and running from bullets *rolls eyes* When you re-enter realities atmosphere I will continue this convo. Until then carry on with whatever you are doing to post such a ridiculous comment lol Everyone knows 7-11 sells fruit. And I hardly leave my house and workout out. Such BS lol
EHHHHHHH.....try again! lol
Good luck on your future endeavors of bacon and fat-shaming.
Ty and good luck to you on your continued blaming of society and endless excuses instead of doing something about it. Arent we a peachy pair! :drinker:0 -
From the CNN article you seem to be referencing:
---
"Hey, Precious."
Cherie Hart Steffen turned toward her professor in the hall of their community college. "What?" she asked, sure she had misheard.
"Precious -- you know, from the movie," he repeated.
The students around them started laughing. Steffen could only stare in disbelief. He had just compared her to Gabourey Sidibe's obese character in the 2009 film.
"It was like ... someone hit me with a frying pan on my head," she remembers.
---
Yes, that was bullying. OP probably should have included that from the beginning. Until I went and looked at the article I wouldn't have thought so; context is key.
I don't think this teacher intended to shame her into losing weight.
I don't think he wanted to help her.
I think he just wanted to humiliate her in front of her peers and even though it produced a positive result, I don't think it was professional and it could have backfired.
I would feel the exact same way if the teacher had said, "Hello, J-Lo" implying the student had a huge butt. I would feel the same way if the teacher had said, "Hello, Harvy Milk" or "Hello, Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" and implied the student was gay or "Hello, Monster" to imply they looked like Charlize Theron in said movie . WTF. It's just not ok in that environment.
He's being paid to teach, not to comment on a student's body, gender, sexual preference, etc.
Really glad the subject of the article lost the weight and is helping others in their journey, but I don't think she should give any credit to this teacher. He was just a plain, ol' capital D.0 -
Oh wow, I didn't realize that was the context.From the CNN article you seem to be referencing:
---
"Hey, Precious."
Cherie Hart Steffen turned toward her professor in the hall of their community college. "What?" she asked, sure she had misheard.
"Precious -- you know, from the movie," he repeated.
The students around them started laughing. Steffen could only stare in disbelief. He had just compared her to Gabourey Sidibe's obese character in the 2009 film.
"It was like ... someone hit me with a frying pan on my head," she remembers.
---
Yes, that was bullying. OP probably should have included that from the beginning. Until I went and looked at the article I wouldn't have thought so; context is key.
I don't think this teacher intended to shame her into losing weight.
I don't think he wanted to help her.
I think he just wanted to humiliate her in front of her peers and even though it produced a positive result, I don't think it was professional and it could have backfired.
I would feel the exact same way if the teacher had said, "Hello, J-Lo" implying the student had a huge butt. I would feel the same way if the teacher had said, "Hello, Harvy Milk" or "Hello, Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" and implied the student was gay or "Hello, Monster" to imply they looked like Charlize Theron in said movie . WTF. It's just not ok in that environment.
He's being paid to teach, not to comment on a student's body, gender, sexual preference, etc.
Really glad the subject of the article lost the weight and is helping others in their journey, but I don't think she should give any credit to this teacher. He was just a plain, ol' capital D.
Pretty sure that probably counts as harassment. I would have filed a complaint and gotten his *kitten* fired.0 -
From the CNN article you seem to be referencing:
---
"Hey, Precious."
Cherie Hart Steffen turned toward her professor in the hall of their community college. "What?" she asked, sure she had misheard.
"Precious -- you know, from the movie," he repeated.
The students around them started laughing. Steffen could only stare in disbelief. He had just compared her to Gabourey Sidibe's obese character in the 2009 film.
"It was like ... someone hit me with a frying pan on my head," she remembers.
---
Yes, that was bullying. OP probably should have included that from the beginning. Until I went and looked at the article I wouldn't have thought so; context is key.
I don't think this teacher intended to shame her into losing weight.
I don't think he wanted to help her.
I think he just wanted to humiliate her in front of her peers and even though it produced a positive result, I don't think it was professional and it could have backfired.
I would feel the exact same way if the teacher had said, "Hello, J-Lo" implying the student had a huge butt. I would feel the same way if the teacher had said, "Hello, Harvy Milk" or "Hello, Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" and implied the student was gay or "Hello, Monster" to imply they looked like Charlize Theron in said movie . WTF. It's just not ok in that environment.
He's being paid to teach, not to comment on a student's body, gender, sexual preference, etc.
Really glad the subject of the article lost the weight and is helping others in their journey, but I don't think she should give any credit to this teacher. He was just a plain, ol' capital D.
I think she gives the credit to her mom..her dying words were for her to lose weight. TBH I dont think the professors comments even need to be in the story. Yeah he was an asshat for saying it but he has the right to say what he wants. Just because someone is a total asshat doesnt mean you have to cont to eat yourself into oblivion. If anything she shoudl get all the credit not the teacher not the mom. She is the one who was fat and fixed it. She took responsibility for her life the reasons behind it matter not.0 -
Everyone has the right to say what they want. Is it always taken as nice? No. If you dont want to be labeled or called fat dont be fat. Same goes for everything else in life. You lie you get called a liar. You drink too much you are called a drunk. You do drugs you are called a druggie. If you dont like to be called out on your issues...resolve them. Dont be mad or place blame on the person saying what they see in front of them. Many great ppl turned out just fine and dandy from shaming. You cant call the sky green when it it so obvious it is blue.
[/quote]
Everyone does not have the right to say what they want when they want.
Most jobs do not allow people to say whatever they want to their patients, students, employees, customers, clients etc and could very easily face consequences such as lawsuits and professional discipline for doing so.
But, hey, if you want to say what you want to people in your personal life, go right ahead if that's working for you:flowerforyou:0 -
From the CNN article you seem to be referencing:
---
"It was like ... someone hit me with a frying pan on my head," she remembers.
I'm a little upset by this split infinitive. It appears as those she's been hit while wearing a frying pan on her head. That should read: "It was like, someone hit me on the head with a frying pan," she remembers.0
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