Workout routine too aggressive?

FrnkLft
FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
So I've been considering stepping up my routine to be a bit more aggressive. I understand that overtraining could be a problem though, would I be overtraining if I tried this:

Day 1: Chest, Shoulders, Calves
Day 2: Legs, Back, Arms
Day 3: Chest, Shoulders, Calves
Day 4: Legs, Back, Arms
Day 5: Chest, Shoulders, Calves
Day 6: Rest, Cardio
Day 7: Rest, Cardio


My current plan is as follows... each group once a week just seems a little lax but I recognize that more might not be better:

Day 1: Chest
Day 2: Back
Day 3: Shoulders
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: Arms
Day 6: Forearms/Calves + Cardio
Day 7: Rest, Cardio

I do between 3-4 exercises each day, 4-6 reps, 3 sets, 2 min rests + about 7 min warmup at the start. Overall each day it takes about 45 min to get through my routine. I would be stretching it to about 1 hr 15 min if I grouped things because I would remove some of the isolation work due to the higher load.

I want to do legs twice a week, and maybe chest 3 times a week (non consecutive)
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Replies

  • joewtug1
    joewtug1 Posts: 10
    Nothing wrong with hitting everything twice a week. i would however put your rest days at different times in the week. Day 3 you should rest and day 5 you should rest. If you're hitting arms every day before your second and third chest workouts you're not going to get the quality of workout you're looking for because your secondary muscle groups are going to be too taxed. Also see you're doing chest/shoulders three times a week. IMO i think this is a bit much not so much for your chest but your shoulders are going to be fried. Keep in mind your shoulders aid greatly in every chest pressing exercise. I would do chest/shoulders workouts twice a week at the most, maybe even do shoulders another day. I would re-configure this a bit.
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
    The routine you are considering has flaws. Your tris will be getting worked every day your are lifting. When you do any kind of pressing movement your triceps are involved. Flat bench and inclines hit tris pretty hard. Why not train calves with legs. I would just do an upper/lower split or push/pull with legs.
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
    If you want to hit everything that frequently I would get a little more focused on what your're specifically doing. Checkout these two articles that basically cover what you would like to do I think.

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/6_weeks_to_superhero_how_i_build_muscle_and_strip_off_fat_fast&cr=

    or this

    For this link and within the article there's actually a link to an upper body and lower body workout but the following link is an overview of the program itself.

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/look_like_a_bodybuilder_perform_like_an_athlete
  • projectbam
    projectbam Posts: 55
    Doesnt seem too ridiculous to me. I try to hit one (if smashing it) or two body parts per session tho, with maybe throwing in calves at the end of the workout so that i hit them three or four times a week.

    I dont schedule rest days because i dont want to NOT go to the gym when i'm feeling fresh and be all like "I know its rest day but damn i wish i'd gone to the gym today!" .. but i do rest when i've hit the gym like maybe 3 or 4 days on the bounce and my body is pretty much telling me to.

    Good to see youre giving legs the attention they deserve tho mate!!
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    Yeah I'm the same way, I would go to the gym every day if I could.

    Hows this:

    Day: 1 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 2 Back Shoulders Biceps
    Day: 3 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 4 Back Shoulders Biceps
    Day: 5 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 6 Rest Cardio
    Day: 7 Rest Cardio

    I push it pretty hard on the chest and shoulders, my triceps probably don't need isolation. other than that my biceps only get worked a little with back, so some isolation couldn't hurt. I want to keep my working days straight though, so I would rest at the end of the week.
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
    Yeah I'm the same way, I would go to the gym every day if I could.

    Hows this:

    Day: 1 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 2 Back Shoulders Biceps
    Day: 3 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 4 Back Shoulders Biceps
    Day: 5 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 6 Rest Cardio
    Day: 7 Rest Cardio

    I think not only is the split important but what are you doing with the split. For example, what is a Day 1 Chest workout versus a Day 2 Chest workout? Also, what are your goals? You say you use 4-6 reps for all your exercises, so is each workout just compound movements basically?
  • mrdexter1
    mrdexter1 Posts: 356 Member
    calves 3 times a week ???

    If i did mine to "usual failure" 3 times a week i d be walking like a cripple all week instead of just 2 days they take to recover...(84kg / 171/2 inch calf.)
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
    Yeah I'm the same way, I would go to the gym every day if I could.

    Hows this:

    Day: 1 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 2 Back Shoulders Biceps
    Day: 3 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 4 Back Shoulders Biceps
    Day: 5 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 6 Rest Cardio
    Day: 7 Rest Cardio


    Problem with the above split is your shoulders are getting worked every day. Flat bench, incline benches, dips not only hit your chest and tris but your shoulders are getting worked and a lot as well.
  • Shawshankcan
    Shawshankcan Posts: 900 Member
    Take a look at the routine listed here

    http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-feature-layne-norton-training-series-full-powerhypertrophy-routine-updated-2011.html
  • grantdumas7
    grantdumas7 Posts: 802 Member
    Take a look at the routine listed here

    http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-feature-layne-norton-training-series-full-powerhypertrophy-routine-updated-2011.html
    I was thinking of suggesting that routine. I did the PHAT with slightly less volume and I made some decent gains from it.
  • markpmc
    markpmc Posts: 240 Member
    I started a similar routine today!
    I plan to go heavy on the first workout and light medium on the second workout of the week. There's nothing wrong w/ hitting it twice a week.
  • Vonwarr
    Vonwarr Posts: 390 Member
    I'm not sure if you're really asking the right question. What are your goals right now? You've listed a possible split, but not the goals that are driving your program choice.

    Edit - "Overtraining" gets thrown around a lot more than it should. I wouldn't worry about overtraining, I would be more concerned with ensuring your program design doesn't have an imbalance in it.
  • Phrakman
    Phrakman Posts: 113
    Im not overly concerned with your triceps getting worked every day, they are small and can recover fast. However your shoulders will take a serious beating, basically any press movement will hit them, then you hit them again the next day. Its a recipe for over use injuries.

    You may want to look into PHAT as stated or a P/P/L routine.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    Well my goals are first hypertrophy, then strength. From what I understand they go hand in hand however, though I've read here and there that some differentiate between hypertrophy and power... no idea why. Maybe it's the way the muscle is used (pure power over explosiveness).

    BTW I'm looking for permanent "Myofibril hypertrophy", solid mass, rather than "Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy" which just amounts to lasting pump.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    Ok, how about this:

    Day: 1 Chest Shoulders Triceps
    Day: 2 Back Biceps
    Day: 3 Legs Calves
    Day: 4 Chest Shoulders Triceps
    Day: 5 Back Biceps
    Day: 6 Legs Calves
    Day: 7 Rest Cardio


    I see legs as a rest day for upper body, and on day 7 there is a day of full rest (maybe spinning/cycling).
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
    Hypertrophy and Absolute (maximal) strength do not go hand-in-hand by any means. Bodybuilders are typically far more massive than most powerlifters, however; they are surely not stronger than them.

    I would seriously consider one of the two links I sent you because they, especially the 6-Weeks to Superhero, seem to be in-line with what you want to accomplish. It doesn't sound like your 100% sure of how to get there, so try something that is already built, do it, learn from it, and adjust as needed.
  • scottdeeby
    scottdeeby Posts: 95 Member
    Yeah I'm the same way, I would go to the gym every day if I could.

    Hows this:

    Day: 1 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 2 Back Shoulders Biceps
    Day: 3 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 4 Back Shoulders Biceps
    Day: 5 Chest Legs Calves
    Day: 6 Rest Cardio
    Day: 7 Rest Cardio

    I think not only is the split important but what are you doing with the split. For example, what is a Day 1 Chest workout versus a Day 2 Chest workout? Also, what are your goals? You say you use 4-6 reps for all your exercises, so is each workout just compound movements basically?

    couldn't agree more.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    I've got some limitations due to my lower back and neck/shoulders. For instance I really can't deadlift or do barbell rows.

    So for chest I do bench, shoulders I do raises and military press, biceps just curls, triceps just extensions, and back is lat pulldowns cable pulls and cable hyperextensions for lower. I avoid isolation as much as I can, but that's not always possible.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    So this is what it would look like I guess:

    Day 1:

    Flat Chest Press
    Incline Press
    Decline Press
    Military Press
    Front Raises
    Lateral Raises
    Skull Crushers

    Day 2:

    Lat Pulldown
    Seated Cable Pull
    Cable Hyperextensions - Lower Back
    Hammer Curls
    Barbell Curls

    Day 3:

    Barbell Split Squat (doesn't hurt my back)
    Leg Curls
    Machine Leg Press (need back support)
    Calf Raises
  • Phrakman
    Phrakman Posts: 113
    Well my goals are first hypertrophy, then strength. From what I understand they go hand in hand however, though I've read here and there that some differentiate between hypertrophy and power... no idea why. Maybe it's the way the muscle is used (pure power over explosiveness).

    BTW I'm looking for permanent "Myofibril hypertrophy", solid mass, rather than "Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy" which just amounts to lasting pump.

    No one ever had a solid chest benching 135. Improve your strength and so you can rep out heavier weight.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    Well my goals are first hypertrophy, then strength. From what I understand they go hand in hand however, though I've read here and there that some differentiate between hypertrophy and power... no idea why. Maybe it's the way the muscle is used (pure power over explosiveness).

    BTW I'm looking for permanent "Myofibril hypertrophy", solid mass, rather than "Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy" which just amounts to lasting pump.

    No one ever had a solid chest benching 135. Improve your strength and so you can rep out heavier weight.

    Yeah, right now I weigh 146 and I'm benching 160 looking to increase by next week to 165-170. Whatever I do I'm always looking to up the weight when I feel I can do it safely (I don't have a spotter).
  • phjorg
    phjorg Posts: 252 Member
    Just do PHAT. it's a high volume routine where everything is hit multiple times a week. perfect for what you're looking for.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
    I don't know man, I keep reading that that high volume doesn't amount to much but pump. That low reps high weight is the way to go across the board.
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
    99% of the time, "overtraining" is really just "underfeeding and undersleeping."

    high volume =/= necessarily high reps per set. It's true that high rep sets (9+ per set or so) are more designed for hypertrophy than anything else. But you can easily do high volume strength range sets by just increasing the amount of sets. Hell, Smolov workouts do like 30 reps per session at 70-85% 1RM just by programming lots of sets into the high-intensity stuff. Yeah, it takes longer. But if you want to get stronger, it's the way to go. How "beginner" are you?
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
    Well my goals are first hypertrophy, then strength. From what I understand they go hand in hand however, though I've read here and there that some differentiate between hypertrophy and power... no idea why. Maybe it's the way the muscle is used (pure power over explosiveness).

    The difference is that powerlifting training is almost as much neural as it is muscular. Traditionally, powerlifters will also train lifts rather than body parts. ie-instead of having a legs/back/chest split, they'll do squat/deadlift/bp. The main lift is the core of the work, and accessory/isolation work is only used to bring up deficient muscle groups affecting the performance of the main lift.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    I don't know man, I keep reading that that high volume doesn't amount to much but pump. That low reps high weight is the way to go across the board.

    not for hypertrophy, it ain't
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
    I don't know man, I keep reading that that high volume doesn't amount to much but pump. That low reps high weight is the way to go across the board.

    I mean this respectfully... you're reading the wrong ****. Go to EliteFTS and start reading articles there, read articles and books by Dave Tate, Louie Simmons, Jim Wendler, John Meadows, Brandon Lily.
    The difference is that powerlifting training is almost as much neural as it is muscular. Traditionally, powerlifters will also train lifts rather than body parts. ie-instead of having a legs/back/chest split, they'll do squat/deadlift/bp. The main lift is the core of the work, and accessory/isolation work is only used to bring up deficient muscle groups affecting the performance of the main lift.

    Pretty much agree. It's used to strengthen weak points but it also there to provide some hypertrophy benefit. A larger muscle is better support for the lifts than a stronger one. Probably won't gain the same size as a bodybuilder but your muscle won't be just for show.
  • katy_trail
    katy_trail Posts: 1,992 Member
    I just wanna know if you're going to do ss's like I suggested :)
  • DawnEH612
    DawnEH612 Posts: 574 Member
    I think the first thing i would ask you are what are your current goals. If you dont know where you're going, no map in the world will help you. You first need a defined goal. Second, how one sets up splits and how much rest is done between days/muscle groups is dependent on how heavy/light your lifting, how many sets/reps. I used to love a push, pull, leg day but the heavier i lifted the more i would break up my lifting.most of the time i now lift only one or two body parts per day, per week. With that said i have also done the following splits: 4 days split of: chest/bicep, legs/abs, back/triceps and shoulders/abs. i like this because it hits shoulders, biceps and triceps twice once when worked directly and once when worked as an accessory muscle group with chest or back), i have also done 4 days split of back/chest, arms, shoulders and legs. you could do shoulders on leg day if you wanted to make this a three days split. mix cardio in for long sessions 60 minutes 2-3 times a week and working recovery cardio of 20-30 minutes 2-3 times a week.
    Whatever you choose, routinely change things up.. The body is highly adaptable and efficient and quickly grows accustomed to routine. Make sure you scheduled in deloads (every 4-12 weeks depending on how our body is adjusting and feeling) and changes from heavy weight/low reps to lower weight/higher reps and everything else in between.
    As much as we all enjoy lifting and working out the anabolic stage (the building process) actually takes place when we rest. The catabolic state occurs when we are tearing things down at the gym... Rest is necessary for proper gains!
    Good luck. ????????????
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
    The difference is that powerlifting training is almost as much neural as it is muscular. Traditionally, powerlifters will also train lifts rather than body parts. ie-instead of having a legs/back/chest split, they'll do squat/deadlift/bp. The main lift is the core of the work, and accessory/isolation work is only used to bring up deficient muscle groups affecting the performance of the main lift.

    Pretty much agree. It's used to strengthen weak points but it also there to provide some hypertrophy benefit. A larger muscle is better support for the lifts than a stronger one. Probably won't gain the same size as a bodybuilder but your muscle won't be just for show.

    TBH the only muscles where I can think of size actually providing a benefit for the mechanics of a lift are traps and maybe rear delts for squats (bar platform) and lats for bp.

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