Wasn't it just a matter of staying under the calorie limit?

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  • cebreisch
    cebreisch Posts: 1,340 Member
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    It isn't about just staying within calorie limits, it's also about having "quality food". If you still have a lot of fast food or other "crap" with a lot of salt in it, it's going to make things a lot harder.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,669 Member
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    Not necessarily that crazy - those diets are too restrictive. Any time you tell yourself you can't have something it becomes the main object of desire, right? :-) I will find another post I did earlier that explains it better and copy it here in a sec.
    But you're telling people NOT to have refined carbs? Ironic.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • lizag2012
    lizag2012 Posts: 13
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    Here's the thing. If it was simply a matter of the math, calories in/out, then why does anyone lose 14 lbs in a week? Why do you lose more some weeks and less others? If I need to burn 500 more or eat 500 calories less per day than what I use to lose one pound a week, and I do that, I should lose 1 pound a week no matter what. It shouldn't matter what the sodium is or what the protein is or what the dairy is or what the carb count is or how much water I drink, etc. Of course, that doesn't happen. Then everyone comes in and tries to figure out why the math isn't working. He's eating less than he burns, so why isn't he losing weight??? Should just be a simple arithmetic problem according to the popular calories in/out mantra.

    Yes, especially if you are already in shape and never had a weight problem, then you have never had much issue with your metabolism and foods aren't having as much impact. I understand my use of the word carbs in the first post got a lot of people riled up. Low-glycemic might be a better word. For someone who is struggling with weight loss, reducing carbohydrates and getting carbs from lower-glycemic sources (squash instead of potatoes for instance) will help.

    Again, no one has to follow this advice and you are all free to do your own research to see what science really says about diet and exercise. Yes, there is research to show that low-fat diets actually can be detrimental to our health.

    As for my own story, you will never see a "ripped" photo of me (or any other photo as I am pretty private), I don't crunch abs for hours a day, because that isn't important to me, but when I go to the doctor, all of my numbers are extremely healthy. My children are all thin and active. I exercise, I try to make good choices when I eat, and I recognize that eating an ice cream sundae isn't going to be the end of the world. I do limit carbs, when I don't, it doesn't affect me right away, but then after a while of eating like that I crave them more and more. Like the Lay's commercial says, bet ya can't eat just one! This is the problem a lot of obese and overweight people suffer from. It is almost addicitive how hard it can be to avoid overeating your calories when the cravings are so strong to eat. The research proves that we are less likely to go over our calorie intake if we increase protein and decrease carbohydrates. Therefore, it is much easier to maintain a lower-glycemic diet in the long term. You will stop daydreaming about doughnuts and cupcakes and all of that. I'm simply offering a suggestion that the math doesn't always work.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Here's the thing. If it was simply a matter of the math, calories in/out, then why does anyone lose 14 lbs in a week? Why do you lose more some weeks and less others? If I need to burn 500 more or eat 500 calories less per day than what I use to lose one pound a week, and I do that, I should lose 1 pound a week no matter what. It shouldn't matter what the sodium is or what the protein is or what the dairy is or what the carb count is or how much water I drink, etc. Of course, that doesn't happen. Then everyone comes in and tries to figure out why the math isn't working. He's eating less than he burns, so why isn't he losing weight??? Should just be a simple arithmetic problem according to the popular calories in/out mantra.

    Yes, especially if you are already in shape and never had a weight problem, then you have never had much issue with your metabolism and foods aren't having as much impact. I understand my use of the word carbs in the first post got a lot of people riled up. Low-glycemic might be a better word. For someone who is struggling with weight loss, reducing carbohydrates and getting carbs from lower-glycemic sources (squash instead of potatoes for instance) will help.

    Again, no one has to follow this advice and you are all free to do your own research to see what science really says about diet and exercise. Yes, there is research to show that low-fat diets actually can be detrimental to our health.

    As for my own story, you will never see a "ripped" photo of me (or any other photo as I am pretty private), I don't crunch abs for hours a day, because that isn't important to me, but when I go to the doctor, all of my numbers are extremely healthy. My children are all thin and active. I exercise, I try to make good choices when I eat, and I recognize that eating an ice cream sundae isn't going to be the end of the world. I do limit carbs, when I don't, it doesn't affect me right away, but then after a while of eating like that I crave them more and more. Like the Lay's commercial says, bet ya can't eat just one! This is the problem a lot of obese and overweight people suffer from. It is almost addicitive how hard it can be to avoid overeating your calories when the cravings are so strong to eat. The research proves that we are less likely to go over our calorie intake if we increase protein and decrease carbohydrates. Therefore, it is much easier to maintain a lower-glycemic diet in the long term. You will stop daydreaming about doughnuts and cupcakes and all of that. I'm simply offering a suggestion that the math doesn't always work.

    You are confusing weight loss and fat loss. And way to ignore the fact protein is highly insulinogenic, which happens to make your previous carb fear mongering posts look silly since you also suggested upping protein
  • endoftheside
    endoftheside Posts: 568 Member
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    If it were me, I would start eating back only half of the exercise calories (unless I was 100% sure I was burning that much, and MFP and even HRMs are not 100% accurate), cut back on sodium, and give it a week. For me, all the weird little blips in the scale seem to work themselves out in that time frame.
  • lizag2012
    lizag2012 Posts: 13
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    You are confusing weight loss and fat loss. And way to ignore the fact protein is highly insulinogenic, which happens to make your previous carb fear mongering posts look silly since you also suggested upping protein

    I can't find anything that says protein is insulinogenic, in fact as I have been looking it up, all of the reports, articles, science research and everything I have found so far says the opposite. The only thing that came close was a study of dairy protein which found an elevated insulin response from dairy products, but they tested other animal proteins as well and there was no insulin response. I'd be happy to address this more thoroughly if you could point me to the genesis of your statement.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    You are confusing weight loss and fat loss. And way to ignore the fact protein is highly insulinogenic, which happens to make your previous carb fear mongering posts look silly since you also suggested upping protein

    I can't find anything that says protein is insulinogenic, in fact as I have been looking it up, all of the reports, articles, science research and everything I have found so far says the opposite. The only thing that came close was a study of dairy protein which found an elevated insulin response from dairy products, but they tested other animal proteins as well and there was no insulin response. I'd be happy to address this more thoroughly if you could point me to the genesis of your statement.

    Holt et al. An insulin index of foods: the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 66, 1264-1276

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf+html

    The insulinogenic effect of whey protein is partially mediated by a direct effect of amino acids and GIP on β-cells

    http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/9/1/48
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,868 Member
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    I can fluctuate 2-5 Lbs day to day. When you're talking weight loss of 1/2 Lb to 2 Lbs per week, it can sometimes be difficult to see over a short period of time due to these fluctuations. You need more data points...i.e. be patient and look at things month to month as well as week to week to see a general trend, not a linear event.
  • cmeiron
    cmeiron Posts: 1,599 Member
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    How are you meauring your food/cals? Unless you are using a scale many people will say your aren't really counting your calories.

    ^^^^^THIS. OP, are you measuring your food with a scale? Are you tracking every single thing that goes in your mouth? It's VERY easy to underestimate your intake.
  • EmilyOfTheSun
    EmilyOfTheSun Posts: 1,548 Member
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    Are you logging accurately? Food scale, measuring cups, etc.
    Are you choosing the entries on MFP with accurate info? Sometimes it's good to double check them.
  • lizag2012
    lizag2012 Posts: 13
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    If it was just a matter of staying under the calorie limit, it wouldn't matter what he ate. Whether it's fat or muscle or whatever he's losing, the argument here seems to be that the math is the math. 3500 calories a week should equal a pound of something lost no matter which way you slice it.

    Oh, and Japanese and Italians may eat rice and pasta, but not nearly in the quantities that are served here. A Japanese diet may have rice as a side for meals, but they also include plenty of fish, seaweed and other vegetables, not just a heaping scoop of rice with a tiny amount of the rests. Much of the sushi here in America is nothing like what you'd find in Japan. Italians have lots of protein and veggies and healthy fats with their pasta, and the proportion of noodles to the rest is much smaller than what we typically eat over here. They also don't eat tons of bread and cheesecake.

    100's of years ago certain Native American tribes had obese people who were basially "starving". They had government rations of grains and sugar, but their ability to hunt and farm was restricted. Their diet consisted mainly of the rations, which were not a generous amount. They showed signs of malnutrition and yet were still putting on fat. They weren't leading a sedentary lifestyle. Same things in certain tribes in Africa, and other places. I'm sorry I don't have all of the data here in front of me at the moment.

    Again, as I said, if you were never overweight, your body doesn't have the same insulin resistance built up. It is easier to control cravings. You also must work out quite a bit to be able to eat as many carbs as you want and still stay at an ideal weight. The point is, that isn't realistic for most people. It turns everyone else into a failure if they can't magically control their eating and exercise so tightly. Of course calories still matter, but when you eat more protein, you don't have enough room/appetite to overindulge on carbs. You can believe this or not, it's not my idea, it's backed by 100 years of research.

    I haven't really heard anything that discounts this, and I don't think I will ever convince you to look into it yourselves, so I will stop trying to convince you. Those of you who don't have a weight problem don't need to worry about it anyway, and you will never understand what it is like to be someone who can't stop eating "junk food" even when you really want to. If the OP wants to get his eating in check, based on everything I have ever learned about weight loss, his diet contains way too many carbs (most of the people arguing with me seem to say they eat more protein, so why would it be so crazy to encourage him to do so as well?)
  • AnneU93
    AnneU93 Posts: 114 Member
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    Your sodium on Saturday was over 4600. That alone would cause a gain. Weigh again in a few days after you have flushed all that out.

    Other than that, its possible you are overestimating your calories burned. I saw 1280....unless that was a 90 minute run, seems high.

    It was a 90 minute run. I had a birthday later so, I used the elliptical trainer for 90 minutes.

    Getting the sodium under control is so difficult. I'm going to try to lower it this week.

    I would just like to point out that the" calories burned" counter on the elliptical machine is very rarely correct and you should get a HRM. Calories burned various with the person and the elleptical machine doesn't consider your height or weight or fitness level. An obese person will usually burn more doing 20 minutes of exercise than a fit person doing the exact same.
  • MrsDanner78
    MrsDanner78 Posts: 107
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    How are you meauring your food/cals? Unless you are using a scale many people will say your aren't really counting your calories.

    ^^^^^THIS. OP, are you measuring your food with a scale? Are you tracking every single thing that goes in your mouth? It's VERY easy to underestimate your intake.

    I agree. I was positive that I was guesstimating the serving sizes properly. But once I started measuring and weighing things, I realized just how wrong I was!

    Also, I agree that you shouldn't eat back all of your exercise calories. Some, yes. But not all of them. But, of course, that's a matter of opinion.
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
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    sooooooooooo if it's the evil carbs and insulin that are stopping him losing weight how come he lost weight in the first 2 weeks and by his own ticker has already lost 70lbs?

    although I do actually agree your protein is a bit low for someone of your weight.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    sooooooooooo if it's the evil carbs and insulin that are stopping him losing weight how come he lost weight in the first 2 weeks and by his own ticker has already lost 70lbs?

    although I do actually agree you protein is a bit low of someone of your weight.

    Protein will make him fat bro cause of the insulin
  • BhanGoes
    BhanGoes Posts: 75 Member
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    Let's stay on topic, kids. We aren't here to accuse someone of using "supplements" or to flaunt our knowledge. We're here to exchange information specifically pertaining to this individual's question.

    OP: It looks like scattered among the insults there is some actual good advice. Hope you're able to sift through it. My advice is to choose one day per week to weigh in. As much as possible, wear the same clothing and eat the same foods before weighing in. (For example, I weigh in every Saturday morning at 10:30 wearing my swim suit prior to a pool workout.)

    Also, try changing one thing at a time. Reducing your sodium intake is a good place to start. Try *just* that for a couple weeks, reevaluate how you feel and what you weigh, and then consider altering another part of your intake/exercise (like reducing after-lunch carbs).

    Best of luck! Stick with it!
  • lizag2012
    lizag2012 Posts: 13
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    You are confusing weight loss and fat loss. And way to ignore the fact protein is highly insulinogenic, which happens to make your previous carb fear mongering posts look silly since you also suggested upping protein

    I can't find anything that says protein is insulinogenic, in fact as I have been looking it up, all of the reports, articles, science research and everything I have found so far says the opposite. The only thing that came close was a study of dairy protein which found an elevated insulin response from dairy products, but they tested other animal proteins as well and there was no insulin response. I'd be happy to address this more thoroughly if you could point me to the genesis of your statement.

    Holt et al. An insulin index of foods: the insulin demand generated by 1000-kJ portions of common foods. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 66, 1264-1276

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.full.pdf+html

    The insulinogenic effect of whey protein is partially mediated by a direct effect of amino acids and GIP on β-cells

    http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/9/1/48

    I haven't had time to read everything thoroughly, but from what I can see, of course food has an insulin response, every food in the world will. What I see on the charts and from briefly reading the articles is that proteins had an insulin response similar to a few whole grains, but less of a response than the fruit, some of the whole grains, and all of the refined carbs.
  • 007FatSlayer
    007FatSlayer Posts: 132 Member
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    It's about staying under your calorie limit and eating whole foods. That is so important-- if you look at the ingredients in something you're about to eat and you don't know what it is-- neither does your body. Whole grains, fruits, veggies, fish, poultry (red mean on occasion), healthy fats (avocados, olive oil, nuts [almonds])...you're staying under your calorie goal, for the most part, but the food you're eating is crap. This does make a difference. Look up ingredients you're unfamiliar with and see where they come from.

    Try eating natural quality foods :smile:
  • kellymiller23
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    Carbs. Your diet has way too many carbs, and you work out too hard. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but crazy workouts make you super hungry, eating carbs makes your insulin fire up and store fat, which in turn makes you more hungry. You don't eat nearly enough protein. You could completely stop counting calories and eat tons of protein and stop eating rice and pasta salad and tortillas and cereal and you would lose weight. Rice, pasta, etc are not part of a nutritious eating plan. Eat a huge steak for dinner with a huge side of veggies - 2 cups of greens at least. Eggs and bacon for breakfast instead of cereal.

    This has worked for me. I stick to lean protein, vegetables, fruit, and a few whole grains (i.e. a turkey sandwich on multi-grain bread).

    Try and limit dairy, rice, pasta, potatoes, cereal, processed foods, frozen foods, artificial sweeteners, soda, and fruit juice.
  • aliencheesecake
    aliencheesecake Posts: 570 Member
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    If you were doing everything else correctly (correct food estimates, serving sizes, etc, AND exercising, perhaps it's muscle gain... Or water weight.