DIABETICS AND DAILY CALORIES

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  • CJ_Holmes
    CJ_Holmes Posts: 759 Member
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    In response to your original post, I would recommend upping your fat intake. I'm a Type I diabetic, and try to keep my fat at 50%, protein at 30%, and carbs at 20% of my calories. A couple of tablespoons of coconut oil in your coffee would boost you up 250 calories! Yum!

    I used to eat very low carb, but love more variety in my diet. I do think that the ketogenic diet would probably be the best for sugar control, and I just haven't been able to bring myself to give up fruit. I have a feeling as I get older, if something else doesn't change, I will eventually give in to what I already know!
    For most Type I's the macros you suggest may actually work quite well, if there's not too much 'guessing' on their bolus insulin requirements.

    For Type II's though - the vast majority are insulin-resistant, and as such the ketogenic ratio of < 10% carbs and > 65% fat will provide for better control - and much less work on the pancreas.

    Interestingly, over the past few decades as the amount of refined sugars/carbohydrates have gradually but greatly increased in our diets, so has insulin-resistance started to manifest in Type I diabetics, especially those that didn't restrict carbohydrate and just attempted to eat anything they want and just 'bolus it' .... It would seem that even Type I's that over-indulge in refined carbohydrate are experiencing the same insulin-resistance that normally only manifested in Type II's.

    Thank you for that! You know, when I think about it, my problem is probably the "guessing" because I eat and exercise at different times every day, and snack a lot, which causes me to "stack" my insulin. My main goal should probably be to get a little more routine, so that my glucose will be more predictable. I'm having to adjust all my dosages since I have been losing weight, so I'm all out of whack.

    Thanks for all of your great info!
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
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    Thank you for that! You know, when I think about it, my problem is probably the "guessing" because I eat and exercise at different times every day, and snack a lot, which causes me to "stack" my insulin. My main goal should probably be to get a little more routine, so that my glucose will be more predictable. I'm having to adjust all my dosages since I have been losing weight, so I'm all out of whack.

    Thanks for all of your great info!
    Ron Raab, who's a previous Vice-President of the International Diabetes Federation ( www.idf.org ) is also a Type I diabetic and back in 1998 decided to try to treat his with a reduced-carbohydrate approach. He's written some very clear/concise articles on why he chose this diet, and the theory/practice behind the treatment at his web page here: http://www.diabetes-low-carb.org/

    The major benefit of a low-carb approach for an insulin-dependent diabetic is VERY normalized blood glucose without near the numbers of hypos or spikes to deal with. (You are far-more accurate estimating bolus amounts when you're eating ~10g of carbohydrate a meal, as opposed to wondering if that spaghetti is 75g or 120g of carbohydrate....)

    His 'summary' page on his reasoning and the benefit is here:
    http://www.diabetes-low-carb.org/articles/articles-english/1/1-summary-why.html

    and his more in-depth analysis is here:
    http://www.diabetes-low-carb.org/articles/articles-english/1/3-in-depth.html

    It's a good read for Type I's, as is Dr. Richard K. Bernstein's book "Diabetes Solution". Both simply make sense.
  • cubbies77
    cubbies77 Posts: 607 Member
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    /bumping because this thread is full of really good information and I want others to see it
  • CJ_Holmes
    CJ_Holmes Posts: 759 Member
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    His 'summary' page on his reasoning and the benefit is here:
    http://www.diabetes-low-carb.org/articles/articles-english/1/1-summary-why.html

    and his more in-depth analysis is here:
    http://www.diabetes-low-carb.org/articles/articles-english/1/3-in-depth.html

    It's a good read for Type I's, as is Dr. Richard K. Bernstein's book "Diabetes Solution". Both simply make sense.
    [/quote]

    I will llok into that! Dr. Bernstein's book was basically where I learned everything I know. I had no insurance or regular medical care when when I was DX'ed, so once they booted me out of my severe DKA hospital stay, books were all I had. I actually am pretty sure I was better off reading Dr. Bernstein than in person with most of the doctors I have met since....
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
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    ... Dr. Bernstein's book was basically where I learned everything I know. I had no insurance or regular medical care when when I was DX'ed, so once they booted me out of my severe DKA hospital stay, books were all I had. I actually am pretty sure I was better off reading Dr. Bernstein than in person with most of the doctors I have met since....
    You're probably correct. I had to educate my own physician (who, admittedly takes new information better from me than they would from a layperson) on the benefits of a very-low-carb approach to diabetes management.

    I'm actually the first patient my physician ever had that went from a starting HbA1c of above 10% (I was 12.2%) to 7.0% in 3 months (while still morbidly obese) without using insulin. The fact that my HbA1c is always in the low-5's (now) without insulin shows how effective the diet is, especially considering I actually have very little insulin production of my own (which was why my A1c was so high at diagnosis).
  • stephenson2012
    stephenson2012 Posts: 94 Member
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    Bump for later reading.
  • iquiltoo
    iquiltoo Posts: 246 Member
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    Thanks for the excellent information.
  • DrBorkBork
    DrBorkBork Posts: 4,099 Member
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    the spiritual way of eating (Buddhism/Hinduism). Plus I was concerned about what they fed the animals and what hormones was given to them.

    I live this way, but I believe the Lord placed creatures on this earth to help sustain man, so I eat meat. I believe the Lord would want me to eat a clean diet of things He created (animals, fruit, veggies), and not necessarily one full of man's creations (processed food like bread and such).

    We also source our meat from a local farmer who grass feeds his cows and other critters.
  • Snooozie
    Snooozie Posts: 3,447 Member
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    bump
  • MoniMoni2u
    MoniMoni2u Posts: 211 Member
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    Thanks so much for all the information and sites to read. I'll look at more of them later! :)
  • Time2LoseWeightNOW
    Time2LoseWeightNOW Posts: 1,730 Member
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  • Peni_Davidson
    Peni_Davidson Posts: 54 Member
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    While I am not diabetic myself my partner is and I do advocate as low carb diet as possible for anyone with diabetes. After all, all carbs are sugar just in varying forms.
  • mistesh
    mistesh Posts: 243 Member
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    "What are the absolute best five foods one can eat to reverse diabetes?

    Beans, Greens, Non-starchy vegetables, Nuts and seeds, Berries"

    "What will readers be most surprised to learn from your book?

    They will be most surprised to learn that not just type 2 diabetes, but heart attacks, strokes and even dementia can be almost totally prevented with a nutritarian diet. In other words, people have accepted that the typical risks, suffering, and premature death is normal or unavoidable and accepted that medical care is the answer to our health problems."

    Diabetes Diet: New Book 'The End Of Diabetes' Highlights Ways To Prevent And Reverse The Disease
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/diabetes-diet-prevention-the-end-of-diabetes-book_n_2478790.html
  • teresab101
    teresab101 Posts: 56 Member
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    bump
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
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    "What are the absolute best five foods one can eat to reverse diabetes?

    Beans, Greens, Non-starchy vegetables, Nuts and seeds, Berries"

    "What will readers be most surprised to learn from your book?

    They will be most surprised to learn that not just type 2 diabetes, but heart attacks, strokes and even dementia can be almost totally prevented with a nutritarian diet. In other words, people have accepted that the typical risks, suffering, and premature death is normal or unavoidable and accepted that medical care is the answer to our health problems."

    Diabetes Diet: New Book 'The End Of Diabetes' Highlights Ways To Prevent And Reverse The Disease
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/18/diabetes-diet-prevention-the-end-of-diabetes-book_n_2478790.html
    Well, since Fuhrman advocates vegetarian or vegan diets, and is a member of known animal-activist groups, I'll take what he says with a grain of salt, and stick to the scientific studies on diabetes, rather than what a vegan animal-activist tells the Huffington Post.
  • DistractedGrace
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    I am a T2 diabetic and have been struggling with my diagnosis and weight loss. I started out reading on diabetesforums.com about what diets work the best for T2's, and have been trying for low carb. Then I came here and starting reading, and thought, well lets try counting calories. Then I go to my CDE and she states that I should be eating 30 to 45 grams of carbs at each meal, 15 grams for a snack, but then tells me that I should only be eating 3 times a day. No snacking between meals, in order to give your blood sugar time to come down before you eat your next meal, so it won't be so high afterwards. I told her about diabetesforums.com and the low-carb, high fat diet. She just laughed and said "I can't make you eat like I have told you, but I am the one that is right".

    I am so confused right now, I just don't know what to do anymore.
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
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    I am a T2 diabetic and have been struggling with my diagnosis and weight loss. I started out reading on diabetesforums.com about what diets work the best for T2's, and have been trying for low carb. Then I came here and starting reading, and thought, well lets try counting calories. Then I go to my CDE and she states that I should be eating 30 to 45 grams of carbs at each meal, 15 grams for a snack, but then tells me that I should only be eating 3 times a day. No snacking between meals, in order to give your blood sugar time to come down before you eat your next meal, so it won't be so high afterwards. I told her about diabetesforums.com and the low-carb, high fat diet. She just laughed and said "I can't make you eat like I have told you, but I am the one that is right".

    I am so confused right now, I just don't know what to do anymore.
    First, your dietician is simply wrong, because she was taught wrong. She gets her advice from the ADA (American Diabetes Association) or the diabetes associations of their country, and their targets for glycemic control are DAMAGING to diabetics, as is their suggested diet.

    Here's the thing - what she's telling you is NOT based on the scientific evidence, but SHE is likely convinced she's right unless she's done the research on her own.

    Here a few studies you can use to help convince yourself that what www.diabetesforum.com and any low-carb advocate who's done the research on diabetes is correct. You can google any of these and clearly see the results. These are specifically low-carb studies, some on diabetics...
    Some Low-Carb Studies:

    "A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women"

    "A Low-Carbohydrate as Compared with a Low-Fat Diet in Severe Obesity"

    "A low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet to treat type 2 diabetes"

    "Comparison of a High-Carbohydrate Diet with a High-Monounsaturated-Fat Diet in Patients with Non-Insulin-Dependent Diabetes Mellitus"

    "The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus"

    "Effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet program compared to a low-fat diet on fasting lipoprotein subclasses"

    "Comparison of Low Fat and Low Carbohydrate Diets on Circulating Fatty Acid Composition and Markers of Inflammation"

    "Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women"

    "Lasting Improvement of Hyperglycaemia and Bodyweight: Low-carbohydrate Diet in Type 2 Diabetes. – A Brief Report"

    "A Pilot Trial of a Low-Carbohydrate, Ketogenic Diet in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes"

    "A Randomized Trial of a Low-Carbohydrate Diet for Obesity"

    "Low-carbohydrate diets: an update on current research"

    "Efficacy of low-carbohydrate diet in the treatment of obesity in adolescents"

    "A ketogenic diet favorably affects serum biomarkers for cardiovascular disease in normal-weight men"
    ... and here's some more - specifically dietary studies on the treatment of diabetes (some may overlap with the one's previous, sorry...)
    Diabetes Diet Studies:

    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/41/10/1278.short
    Comparison of effects of high and low carbohydrate diets on plasma lipoproteins and insulin sensitivity in patients with mild NIDDM.

    “Compared with the low-carbohydrate diet, the high-carbohydrate diet caused a 27.5% increase in plasma triglycerides and a similar increase in VLDL-cholesterol levels; it also reduced levels of HDL cholesterol by 11%.”


    http://www.annals.org/content/142/6/403.short
    Effect of a Low-Carbohydrate Diet on Appetite, Blood Glucose Levels, and Insulin Resistance in Obese Patients with Type 2 Diabetes

    “Mean 24-hour plasma profiles of glucose levels normalized, mean hemoglobin A1c decreased from 7.3% to 6.8%, and insulin sensitivity improved by approximately 75%. Mean plasma triglyceride and cholesterol levels decreased (change, −35% and −10%, respectively).”


    http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/9/2375.short
    Effect of a High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diet on Blood Glucose Control in People With Type 2 Diabetes

    “The mean 24-h integrated serum glucose at the end of the control and LoBAG diets was 198 and 126 mg/dl, respectively. The percentage of glycohemoglobin was 9.8 ± 0.5 and 7.6 ± 0.3, respectively. It was still decreasing at the end of the LoBAG diet. Thus, the final calculated glycohemoglobin was estimated to be ∼6.3–5.4%. Serum insulin was decreased, and plasma glucagon was increased.”

    “Potentially, this could be a patient-empowering way to ameliorate hyperglycemia without pharmacological intervention.”


    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637
    A Low-Carbohydrate as Compared with a Low-Fat Diet in Severe Obesity

    “Severely obese subjects with a high prevalence of diabetes or the metabolic syndrome lost more weight during six months on a carbohydrate-restricted diet than on a calorie- and fat-restricted diet, with a relative improvement in insulin sensitivity and triglyceride levels, even after adjustment for the amount of weight lost.”


    http://www.annals.org/content/140/10/778.short
    The Effects of Low-Carbohydrate versus Conventional Weight Loss Diets in Severely Obese Adults: One-Year Follow-up of a Randomized Trial

    “Participants on a low-carbohydrate diet had more favorable overall outcomes at 1 year than did those on a conventional diet. Weight loss was similar between groups, but effects on atherogenic dyslipidemia and glycemic control were still more favorable with a low-carbohydrate diet after adjustment for differences in weight loss.”


    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022207
    A Randomized Trial of a Low-Carbohydrate Diet for Obesity

    “The low-carbohydrate diet produced a greater weight loss (absolute difference, approximately 4 percent) than did the conventional diet for the first six months, but the differences were not significant at one year. The low-carbohydrate diet was associated with a greater improvement in some risk factors for coronary heart disease.”


    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/88/4/1617.short
    A Randomized Trial Comparing a Very Low Carbohydrate Diet and a Calorie-Restricted Low Fat Diet on Body Weight and Cardiovascular Risk Factors in Healthy Women

    “Based on these data, a very low carbohydrate diet is more effective than a low fat diet for short-term weight loss and, over 6 months, is not associated with deleterious effects on important cardiovascular risk factors in healthy women.”


    http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-2-34.pdf
    A low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet to treat type 2 diabetes

    “In summary, the LCKD had positive effects on body weight, waist measurement, serum triglycerides, and glycemic control in a cohort of 21 participants with type 2 diabetes. Most impressive is that improvement in hemoglobin A1c was observed despite a small sample size and short duration of follow-up, and this improvement in glycemic control occurred while diabetes medications were reduced substantially in many participants.”


    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1743-7075/2/16
    The case for low carbohydrate diets in diabetes management

    “Low carbohydrate diet compares more favorably … to traditional low fat for improving glycemic control, insulin sensitivity and dyslipidemia of diabetes with reduction in triglycerides, increase in HDL cholesterol and modification of LDL to less atherogenic form. The need of the hour is to accept the benefits of carbohydrate restriction…”
    Lots of information, I know. But the bottom line is you'll NEVER find any scientific evidence that 30-45g per meal is good for diabetics, ANYWHERE. Please, for the sake of your health do NOT listen to the dietician.
  • mistesh
    mistesh Posts: 243 Member
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    Well, since Fuhrman advocates vegetarian or vegan diets, and is a member of known animal-activist groups, I'll take what he says with a grain of salt, and stick to the scientific studies on diabetes, rather than what a vegan animal-activist tells the Huffington Post.

    Nope. But you're welcome to document your assertions. Just once will do, I take it.
  • albertabeefy
    albertabeefy Posts: 1,169 Member
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    Well, since Fuhrman advocates vegetarian or vegan diets, and is a member of known animal-activist groups, I'll take what he says with a grain of salt, and stick to the scientific studies on diabetes, rather than what a vegan animal-activist tells the Huffington Post.

    Nope. But you're welcome to document your assertions. Just once will do, I take it.
    To which statement do you "Nope"?

    The statement that he does, indeed advocate vegan or vegetarian diets? Though he doesn't vilify meat like some hardcore vegans do, Fuhrman advocates a primarily "plant-based" diet. And says things like:
    The chief feature that makes a vegetarian diet beneficial compared to more conventional ways of eating is that a person following a vegetarian diet is likelier to be consuming more high nutrient produce that contains protective fibers and antioxidant nutrients.
    ... which shows well his anti-meat stance. As well as statements like:
    To achieve optimal health, we require a significant exposure to a full symphony of antioxidants and phytochemicals in unprocessed plant matter. Minimizing or removing animal products from the diet leaves more calories that can be derived from plant foods. Also, since animal products contain no fiber, they remain in the digestive tract longer than plant foods, slowing digestive transit time and allowing heightened exposure to toxic compounds.
    ... reinforce his position. He also makes this claim about being vegetarian:
    This diet will naturally be lower in saturated fat, which is an accepted risk factor for both heart disease and cancer.
    Which isn't actually true about saturated fat, as the science shows.

    If you've read his books, they're basically anti-meat propaganda without coming out and saying it. He's the sneaky PCRM member... if you ask me.

    As for animal activism, this brings us to the PCRM: He's both a member of the PCRM, and has done paid work for them. http://www.pcrm.org/good-medicine/2003/summer/physician-profile-joel-fuhrman-md

    The PCRM is an animal-activist organization with strong ties to PETA that's been repeatedly censured by the American Medical Association.

    Here's some straight truth about the PCRM, to which Dr. Fuhrman belongs and for which he works:
    The American Medical Association (AMA), which actually represents the medical profession, has called PCRM a “fringe organization” that uses “unethical tactics” and is “interested in perverting medical science.”

    PCRM is a font of medical disinformation. The group has argued, with a straight face, that experiments involving animal subjects “interfere with new drug development.” PCRM even rejects the consensus of the respectable medical community by claiming that animal experimentation “leads AIDS research astray.”
    “Less than 5 percent of PCRM’s members are physicians,” Newsweek wrote in February 2004. The respected news magazine continued:
    [PCRM president Neal] Barnard has co-signed letters, on PCRM letterhead, with the leader of Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty, an animal-rights group the Department of Justice calls a “domestic terrorist threat.” PCRM also has ties to People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. An agency called the foundation to Support Animal Protection has distributed money from PETA to PCRM in the past and, until very recently, did both groups’ books. Barnard and PETA head Ingrid Newkirk are both on the foundation’s board.
    Also of note, the American Medical Association (AMA) has issued several strong public rebukes of PCRM, including a 1991 statement in Newsweek by the AMA’s senior vice president for science and medical education, who said:
    They are neither responsible nor are they physicians.”
    Another great quote from the American Medical Association about the PCRM (again, that Dr. Fuhrman is a member of, and PAID for work by:
    The AMA finds the recommendations of PCRM irresponsible and potentially dangerous to the health and welfare of Americans. [PRCM is] blatantly misleading Americans on a health matter and concealing its true purpose as an animal ‘rights’ organization.
    If you care to argue that Fuhrman's not a member of the PCRM, you'll be wrong. If you care to argue he does have a strong, "plant-based" agenda, you'd also be wrong. The proof is in what he says and what he does.
  • strick1982
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    Bumping to continue reading!