Question Re:P90X + running?
wanderingpilgrim
Posts: 109 Member
Hi MFPals, I'm wondering if any of you can help me out just a little?
Today I started P90X. Yay me!
Unfortunately, I started it two years ago and quit. I was exhausted. I think what happened was that I became depleted of energy. I was eating about 1600-1800 calories per day and was also running at the time (approximately 20kms per week). I was on Level One (which is the "Fat Shredder"), and so I was eating a lot of protein and not enough carbs for what my body needed.
I'm giving it a second shot now but am afraid of "failing". I really want to see the program to the end! I am still running (not as much, maybe 12-15kms/week) since I am about to initiate a running program at a local highschool. I feel I NEED to keep my running up to be able to coach it. Is doing both simultaneously a terrible idea? Is P90X meant to be done on it's own? Am I setting myself up for failure here by including both?
I thought that if I got proper sleep and nutrition, I would be better off. So this time, I've custom changed my daily allotment of calories to 2400. Do you think that is enough? Should I be adding more?
Any thoughts?
Thanks for your time...
Today I started P90X. Yay me!
Unfortunately, I started it two years ago and quit. I was exhausted. I think what happened was that I became depleted of energy. I was eating about 1600-1800 calories per day and was also running at the time (approximately 20kms per week). I was on Level One (which is the "Fat Shredder"), and so I was eating a lot of protein and not enough carbs for what my body needed.
I'm giving it a second shot now but am afraid of "failing". I really want to see the program to the end! I am still running (not as much, maybe 12-15kms/week) since I am about to initiate a running program at a local highschool. I feel I NEED to keep my running up to be able to coach it. Is doing both simultaneously a terrible idea? Is P90X meant to be done on it's own? Am I setting myself up for failure here by including both?
I thought that if I got proper sleep and nutrition, I would be better off. So this time, I've custom changed my daily allotment of calories to 2400. Do you think that is enough? Should I be adding more?
Any thoughts?
Thanks for your time...
0
Replies
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It is nearly impossible to give a meaningful answer to this without knowing a whole lot more about you. What is your diet? What is your current fitness level.
The fact is that if you are not in shape, your body needs time to build up. Is doing both bad? No. Will you be tired? Yes probably.
Most people do not know the difference between pain and injury or tired and exhaustion.
That being said, you are in control of how hard you push yourself and where your body is at. Are you willing to go to sleep for 9 hours a night? Can you be sore for a week?
So the short answer is no, and the long answer is maybe.
For me to do what you are doing, I would be considering it an 'easy' week, but my life is different from yours and I am willing to live with a lot of pain to train for where I need to be.
A good plan needs a good goal first and then build your plan specific to where you are and how and when you need to get where you are going.0 -
Hi MFPals, I'm wondering if any of you can help me out just a little?
Today I started P90X. Yay me!
Unfortunately, I started it two years ago and quit. I was exhausted. I think what happened was that I became depleted of energy. I was eating about 1600-1800 calories per day and was also running at the time (approximately 20kms per week). I was on Level One (which is the "Fat Shredder"), and so I was eating a lot of protein and not enough carbs for what my body needed.
I'm giving it a second shot now but am afraid of "failing". I really want to see the program to the end! I am still running (not as much, maybe 12-15kms/week) since I am about to initiate a running program at a local highschool. I feel I NEED to keep my running up to be able to coach it. Is doing both simultaneously a terrible idea? Is P90X meant to be done on it's own? Am I setting myself up for failure here by including both?
I thought that if I got proper sleep and nutrition, I would be better off. So this time, I've custom changed my daily allotment of calories to 2400. Do you think that is enough? Should I be adding more?
Any thoughts?
Thanks for your time...
Take out the Kenpo and Plyo days and do your running then. Do your speed work/intervals/whatever on Tue, your distance run on the Thur and a recovery/easy run on the Sat. Take Sunday off. Problem sorted!
You don't need to be doing a whole load of extra stuff, just modify it sensibly as outlined above and it'll be fine. If you try to do the full schedule and run 3 times a week, then you'll just end up repeating the previous try. Plus, joints, ligaments and tendons can't be sorted out by eating extra calories.......0 -
Thanks.
I like the idea of taking out some of the Kenpo and Plyo days and keeping up with my running; I'll give that some thought. I was the one who initiated getting a running program started at the high school, so I really don't want to abandon the idea now!
I haven't been super active recently. My diet has been good; I've been changing up my calorie intake... doing a week here of 1200, then bumping it to 1500 and then spending some time at 1800 calories. My goal though is to become strong- hence the P90X challenge. What do you think of 2400 calories?
I think that setting a realistic goal (improvising slightly) is better for me right now than setting an "ideal" (combining P90X + running). Small triumphs I can build on!0 -
You are welcome, although I don't think we have managed to give you much help yet.
Without knowing what specifically you are doing or what your level is or what you are trying to attain, then, it is so hard to say anything useful.
I don't think anything of 2400 calories. It isn't anything on its own except 2400 calories.
Here I what I mean:
Your diet is good. How is it good? What is it doing to accomplish your goal?
You want to be strong. How strong? What is strong going to look like to you in your goal? Bodybuilder strong? Lift heavy + protein diet?
Running. How much do you want to run how fast? What is your cardio fitness level? Body weight? If you are bodybuilder strong, you will be heavier and need more calories. If you are starting out, you will need more recovery time as you can't rush recovery of joint tissues.
Are you seeking to do this to loose weight only? Then that needs a different approach less focused on training to build and more on training to cut.
Age? What I suggest for a 22 yr old is different than a 42 yr old. You look young, but so do I and I'm not. Nordic DNA I guess...
Is this a 'fit in my pants' project, or a 'new bad *kitten* me life workover'. How much of your life are you looking to devote?
What does 'not super active' mean to you? me not being super active is 6 miles a day 3-4 times a week at a 8-9 min. pace, plus short sessions of cals on the off days.
Is there anything you should not eat? Nuts may be the super duper superfood, but they will end me. I have to get my healthy fats and stuff elsewhere.
Without any of that, anything anyone tells you will be something generic like you will read in any health magazine or web article. "watch your sugar and bad fat intake. Drink lots of water. Eat fruits and nuts. Get lots of sleep..." etc.
I love to talk fitness, but easy answers never are because they rarely fit. If you are 18 and training for boot camp to become a military superhero, I have a very different answer again than I have for anything I mentioned above already.0 -
Mostly any program that has you following a strict 5-6 day a week schedule was meant to be done on its own, and it is difficult to incorporate additional exercise of any kind without creating problems in one of the following areas:
1. Too little rest in between periods of high intensity exercise, which can stunt results OR make you more prone to injury
2. It becomes difficult to meet your now astronomically high calorie requirements
3. It becomes difficult to meet your now higher sleep requirements
This is not to say it can't be done. It just requires a lot of planning when it comes to both rest and nutrition. I like the above suggestion about removing the "cardio" workouts from P90X and adding in running to replace them. However it should be noted that Plyo X is more than just a "cardio" workout. It is a very intense lower body resistance session and if you omit it from the schedule completely you may find your upper body will develop at a different rate than your lower body.0 -
Hi MFPals, I'm wondering if any of you can help me out just a little?
Today I started P90X. Yay me!
Unfortunately, I started it two years ago and quit. I was exhausted. I think what happened was that I became depleted of energy. I was eating about 1600-1800 calories per day and was also running at the time (approximately 20kms per week). I was on Level One (which is the "Fat Shredder"), and so I was eating a lot of protein and not enough carbs for what my body needed.
I'm giving it a second shot now but am afraid of "failing". I really want to see the program to the end! I am still running (not as much, maybe 12-15kms/week) since I am about to initiate a running program at a local highschool. I feel I NEED to keep my running up to be able to coach it. Is doing both simultaneously a terrible idea? Is P90X meant to be done on it's own? Am I setting myself up for failure here by including both?
I thought that if I got proper sleep and nutrition, I would be better off. So this time, I've custom changed my daily allotment of calories to 2400. Do you think that is enough? Should I be adding more?
Any thoughts?
Thanks for your time...
Take out the Kenpo and Plyo days and do your running then. Do your speed work/intervals/whatever on Tue, your distance run on the Thur and a recovery/easy run on the Sat. Take Sunday off. Problem sorted!
You don't need to be doing a whole load of extra stuff, just modify it sensibly as outlined above and it'll be fine. If you try to do the full schedule and run 3 times a week, then you'll just end up repeating the previous try. Plus, joints, ligaments and tendons can't be sorted out by eating extra calories.......
I agree with this. The thing about P90X to remember is that it is 3 days of weight training with 2 days of cardio and 1 day of yoga. There's nothing "against the rules" to replace the cardio DVDs with some cardio of your own. The whole purpose of cardio with this program is for endurance and calorie burning. You don't have to specifically do Kenpo and Plyo for that. Running would be great in place of those.
You could also get away with taking out Yoga X and replacing that with running so you run 3 days a week and do weight lifting 3 days a week, but that's your choice, really. I simply hate that DVD because it is insanely long and boring...and a bit easy, honestly. The last time I did P90X, I took that one out and replaced it with something more fun like PiYo, which is a pilates/yoga combo that is more interesting than Yoga X ever hopes to be.0 -
I am on week 7 of p90x. Personally I couldn't handle phase 1 of the nutrition guide. My body just doesn't do well on high protein/low carb. I did it for about 3 weeks and crashed. I had horrible dizzy spells and had no energy what so ever. After upping my carbs and lowering my protein a little I started to feel much better. I don't have any advice about running along with it. What the other person said about subbing the kenpo and plyo out sounds like a good idea. I love running but I love plyo more so it wouldn't work for me lol but it may work for you.0
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Thanks all for your input to my questions!
I did today's Plyo workout and completely agree that it is NOT like running! It definitely gets my heart rate up, but the resistance work sure jacks it up a notch!! I can see myself wanting to keep it in just because it's so good, and running on the Kenpo/ Yoga days. The last time I did this, I too found the yoga sooo boring!
Since I'm still wondering if my 2400 calorie target is the right fit (too much, too little??), here is some more info (as requested):
Fitness: All I was doing up till now was running about 5-10 kms per week, and walking whenever and wherever.
Diet: When I say my diet was good, I mean that I've been eating relatively clean food, with my macros set at: Protein:35%, Carbs:40% and Fats:25%. I have been able to lose 30 lbs just from playing with my calorie intake which helped my metabolism get working again.
Sleep: I realistically get about 7-8 hours of sleep per night.
Running level: I've been running 5km outside in about 30 minutes.
Goals: Toning. I shattered my heel 10 years ago and lived in a wheelchair for one year. A part of me died inside when my foot turned gangrene in the cast, but I got it back again when I learned how to walk and then run again 2 years ago (they said it would be impossible!) :blushing: I think I prefer to lift heavy and be toned than just do cardio and "fit in my jeans". It's not about that for me; it's about how strong I feel in my head. (Hope that makes some sense!)
Data: I am 36 yrs old, 5'10", mother of 4, and weigh 177. I think that an ideal weight for me is somewhere around 160.
Commitment: I can realistically commit an hour/day to something. I think that free weights + interval training are the direction I am leaning toward, but if any of you have other suggestions, I'm listening!
Other: I drink 8+ glasses of water, take vitamin B and the occasional antioxidant. I have diabetes & heart disease in my family history, so I am taking that seriously, especially because diabetes could do a terrible number on my reconstructed foot.
I'm appreciative of your feedback.0 -
Wow! Right on! That is great for you to have done so much already.
Now that sounds like a plan, and a good one. I would caution one thing. DO NOT get attached to that weight number. It sounds like you have a naturally strong body type, just guessing by your description. Muscle weighs more, and you may find that 'loss' of inches comes at the gain of weight once you get going. It will even out in the end and you will see it in the mirror, but don't let that weight number trip you up.
Your diet looks good. When I cut, or do strength work, I keep my protein higher and carbs lower because I build better with about 50% protein, 25 fat 25 carbs and never mix the carbs and fat when I eat (if I can help it). But you are not me, so play with it a little bit and see what works good for you. The good thing is that all you need is fine tuning based on your activity and that is a great place to be.
An hour a day is plenty of time to do what you want to do. (and good for you!) If you want to add some strength into your running days without changing much, (i am assuming you have good shoes) you run at about 10km/hr (6mi/hr) go for a few min to get warmed up and throw in some hill sprints (charge up fast, walk back down slow) or some timed sprints at about 85% effort for 30 seconds then fast walk or jog for a min. and repeat 3 times. Then run as slow as you need to make it back without disgracing yourself and crawling. The effort will build your legs, abs, core, and also give you higher cardio HR after you do it for your now slower run. I would not do anything else the day you do this or do it more than once a week until are feeling tougher.
At 36 the good news is that you are in your cardio prime. 30's are considered endurance years, so you are the perfect age to rock out the endurance workouts or marathon or whatever.
Your P90x workouts to build strength and core are great to get you started. If you keep going you will probably want to lift more than just the cals and body weight, but if you are looking for tone and beginning, that is perfect. You can also make it heavier by adding a child or pet, or backpack of books or whatever to your P90X to your workout. I had a friend who had this baby carry harness thing and he did squats and lunges with his kids strapped on him then ran pushing the stroller.
Calories: The question is, how much do you burn ... I would guess that your running pace you are burning 100calories/10 min. If you feel your HR is slimier during P90x then you want to assume about the same burning rate. I use a fancy HR monitor that knows my age and weight and tracks my HR and speed etc. I know it is very close, based on experience with it. But lacking something like that you have to guess. So, what do you burn in a day just doing life, plus what do you burn during exercise minus how much deficit do you want to create to loose weight. (not too much or you will be weak and tired) Keeping in mind that the more you build the more you burn.
I am guessing also by you saying that you varied your calorie intake that you have realized that your body adjusts to a static equilibrium if you stick to the same thing all the time? Not everyone has this issue, but if you do, good for you for shaking it up! Self awareness award! The last thing you want is your body lowering your metabolism or something while you are trying to sit and read because it feels it needs to conserve so it has enough for exercise. If that is you, keep doing that every few weeks.
Once again, good for you for getting this going with all that you have to do and old injuries.
Oh yea, one more thing. If something isn't working, don't keep doing it because 'it's good for you'. It is only good for you if it is working.0 -
I'll echo the sentiment above and say great comeback! I had to take a year out from lifting/martial arts due to a bum shoulder - so feel your pain to a small degree (obviously not as serious as your case, but it's frustrating when you can't do what you want to!).
As to plyo - there is no direct replacement for running with plyo, but it's pretty heavy on the joints, so you have to drop running on that day or else you'll just end up injured and then there'll be no training. The closest you'll get is doing something like sprints/hill sprints, which is why I suggested subbing something like that in for plyo if you were dead keen on running 3 times a week. Although, you'll probably have a greater impact on your running performance by actually doing the plyo instead of doing a running day. It's been a long time since I did P90X, but I ran whilst I did it and found the plyo and the Legs & Back day had a massive carry over to my running (even though my mileage was massively decreased due to the demands of the schedule)
For gaining strength, make sure you keep upping the weights. Remember, heavy is heavy for you and your body adapts quite quickly to start with, so you'll want to keep upping the numbers to force strength adaptions. If you really want to gain strength, I would have a whizz through P90X once and if you're liking the increasing strength get on a good beginners lifting routine like Starting Strength, Stronglifts 5x5 or All Pro. They are all structured in such a way that running can be slotted in quite nicely on non-lifting days giving you a great rounded program. As to calories, if your goals are reduced bf %, then just take your TDEE - 20% for a few weeks, and if that's too brutal a cut, the try TDEE - 15% for a few more. As you get leaner you'll have to get up to TDEE - 10% to make sure you're not losing LBM.
Finally, Yoga. If you hate it, you probably need it! Seriously, be kind to your soft tissue and do the Yoga. If not, supplement it with a good mobility/foam rolling/dynamic movement type routine that'll workout the kinks and knit everything back together. This level of training can be quite brutal if you're not used to it and you want to give your body every chance to adapt to ever increasing stresses without injury.0 -
As to calories, if your goals are reduced bf %, then just take your TDEE - 20% for a few weeks, and if that's too brutal a cut, the try TDEE - 15% for a few more. As you get leaner you'll have to get up to TDEE - 10% to make sure you're not losing LBM.
Pardon my ignorance here! TDEE? LBM?
(Please interpret...I'm not following!)
Thanks!0 -
As to calories, if your goals are reduced bf %, then just take your TDEE - 20% for a few weeks, and if that's too brutal a cut, the try TDEE - 15% for a few more. As you get leaner you'll have to get up to TDEE - 10% to make sure you're not losing LBM.
Pardon my ignorance here! TDEE? LBM?
(Please interpret...I'm not following!)
Thanks!
LBM = Lean Body Mass - it's stuff like muscle tissue, bone density, glycogen stores, connective tissue, etc. Basically anything your body is made of that's not fat. It's all the stuff you need to keep as much as possible of when you're losing weight. That's why BF % is really the metric you should be most concerned with rather than scale weight.
BF % = Body Fat Percentage - Take your LBM from your Scale Weight and what your left with is fat. What proportion this forms of your total body gives you your BF %
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure - You have something called your BMR which is the amount of calories you would burn in a 24 hour period if you were in a coma. It's basically the minimum you need for organ function, respiration, etc. Well, you're not in a coma, so you burn calories walking around, working, exercising, dancing, etc. Add these calories you burn through living your life to your BMR and you get your TDEE. It's the total number of calories you burn in 24 hours. If you eat above your TDEE you gain weight. If you eat below your TDEE you lose weight.
What exercise you do and whether or not your are in deficit of your TDEE or in surplus determines what happens to your body. You can have a big deficit and do no strength training and you'll lose LBM (bad) you can have a moderate deficit and strength train and you'll lose fat and retain the maximum LBM possible (good). You can eat at a surplus and do no strength training and put on fat (bad) or you can eat at a moderate surplus and strength train and put on muscle and fat (good - although the ratio will be down to how far over your TDEE you go and how much protein you get)
Hope that clears things up for you!0 -
Yeah- I totally get what you're saying about BF% being the only truly important number to be concerned with. That's sort of why I said "I think my goal is..." only because I've never ever had a "magic number". The goal has simply been to be lean, fit and strong.
However, I don't attend a gym; is there another way that can I find out what my BF% is? I'm curious to find out my LBM and really want to know my BF%!!
(Thanks, hey!)0 -
Easiest way to track decreasing bf%:
Take a semi/fully naked photo front and rear once a month. Comparing this months photos to last months (and the ones before) gives you an imediate sense of the impact of your training on bf%
You're really looking for a downward trend in squishy-ness rather than an absolute number. If you're consistent with your weight workouts and make sure you're in a sensible deficit, you'll lose mostly fat and the photos will show you what you need to know.0 -
Also pay attention to how your sweat smells. If you are working out hard and start to get that sharp 'cat urine' smell, you are burning LBM ... not a bad thing per se, but realize that you need to get some good solid protein after that workout and give yourself a good solid recovery day(s) with water and sleep.0
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You're really looking for a downward trend in squishy-ness rather than an absolute number. If you're consistent with your weight workouts and make sure you're in a sensible deficit, you'll lose mostly fat and the photos will show you what you need to know.
What is considered a sensible deficit?0 -
You're really looking for a downward trend in squishy-ness rather than an absolute number. If you're consistent with your weight workouts and make sure you're in a sensible deficit, you'll lose mostly fat and the photos will show you what you need to know.
What is considered a sensible deficit?
Check this out
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/952996-level-obstacles-lose-weight-target-fat-easy0 -
What exercise you do and whether or not your are in deficit of your TDEE or in surplus determines what happens to your body. You can have a big deficit and do no strength training and you'll lose LBM (bad) you can have a moderate deficit and strength train and you'll lose fat and retain the maximum LBM possible (good). You can eat at a surplus and do no strength training and put on fat (bad) or you can eat at a moderate surplus and strength train and put on muscle and fat (good - although the ratio will be down to how far over your TDEE you go and how much protein you get)
According to a few online tests I've done, my basal metabolic rate is around 1570. How do I go about figuring out my TDEE? I am a busy mom of 4, so with that territory comes lots of "running around". Aside from that, I'm doing P90X (no idea how much I'm actually burning). I plan to add in some running...not lots, but in a few weeks, maybe 5-6 km's per week. (P90X is kicking my butt, and I really want to use my energy to complete it since I know it's a superior choice to running any day!!)
I am currently eating between 2200 and 2400 (shooting for 2400). Do you think that's a number? I'm concerned that I may fall into your last scenario of gaining fat with muscle). I'm eating 7 servings of protein per day (whey protein, fish, fish, fish!) so the protein thing is happening.
Any thoughts?0 -
Also pay attention to how your sweat smells. If you are working out hard and start to get that sharp 'cat urine' smell, you are burning LBM ... not a bad thing per se, but realize that you need to get some good solid protein after that workout and give yourself a good solid recovery day(s) with water and sleep.
This is nasty! I'm glad you mentioned it though because if I actually noticed something like that, I'd immediately stop out of worry that something was wrong with me (hormones etc).
Man I'm learning all kinds of stuff! LOL!0 -
My thoughts are the same as before really. I would say a good estimate for you is about 100 cal/10min.
You can tell if you are burning LBM if you smell the sharp sweat and it is easy to fix by eating the protein.
Don't over think it or you will get wrapped around the axle and do something dumb like not rest enough.
If you see something happening that you don't like, change your diet up.
Keep in mind that 'girl time' will make you seem bigger than you are every month, so don't panic at that.0 -
You're really looking for a downward trend in squishy-ness rather than an absolute number. If you're consistent with your weight workouts and make sure you're in a sensible deficit, you'll lose mostly fat and the photos will show you what you need to know.
What is considered a sensible deficit?
Check this out
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/952996-level-obstacles-lose-weight-target-fat-easy
That was EXACTLY what I was looking for! Now I have a ball-park idea of what I should be aiming for.
Thanks a million. :happy:0 -
This is nasty! I'm glad you mentioned it though because if I actually noticed something like that, I'd immediately stop out of worry that something was wrong with me (hormones etc).
Man I'm learning all kinds of stuff! LOL!
That was my reaction the first time it happened to me!
I was sure something had made me toxic.0 -
That being said, you are in control of how hard you push yourself and where your body is at. Are you willing to go to sleep for 9 hours a night? Can you be sore for a week?
I woke up thinking about this comment about being sore. I am sore everywhere!! But, "good sore"- not in pain, just knowing I'm working muscles that haven't been used or working in quite some time.
Just wanted to ask: should I expect this as long as I keep up P90X? Or will the soreness go away over time as my muscles adapt to exercise?
I'm fine if the answer is "no"; just curious what to expect.0 -
Oh- and also- what is "cutting"?0
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I did both at the same time last year. I started with classic and then switched to the "doubles" after the first month. I swapped out the Kenpo and Cardio X for running. Since several days were "doubles," I was running and lifting on the same days. But never doing 2 cardio sessions like running & plyo on the same day.
It's definitely do-able!0 -
Soreness is from the buildup of waist in your muscles. As you become more fit, it happens less, or it is more accurate to say, your muscles become stronger and more efficient and therefore do not get sore like they did unless you drastically increase the effort.
Cutting: loosing the fat. As apposed to bulking, or maintaining or ... whatever... I find that I sometimes talk in gym jargon here, sorry. Also my vocab is apparently dated I have been told. Damn generation gap.0 -
Good to know!
What made you switch from Classic to Doubles?0 -
When I cut, or do strength work, I keep my protein higher and carbs lower because I build better with about 50% protein, 25 fat 25 carbs and never mix the carbs and fat when I eat (if I can help it).
Curious about the reasoning/science behind this. How come you don't combine the two?0 -
Wondering if any of you have looked into making your own protein powder at home? I found some interesting info on Livestrong.com (think Lance Armstrong). It talks you through the process of making your own whey and everything.
What do you think; good/ bad idea?
Have you tried it?
(http://www.livestrong.com/article/293743-how-to-make-high-protein-powder/)
(http://www.livestrong.com/article/491895-whey-protein-powder-ingredients/)0 -
Wondering if any of you have looked into making your own protein powder at home? I found some interesting info on Livestrong.com (think Lance Armstrong). It talks you through the process of making your own whey and everything.
What do you think; good/ bad idea?
Have you tried it?
(http://www.livestrong.com/article/293743-how-to-make-high-protein-powder/)
(http://www.livestrong.com/article/491895-whey-protein-powder-ingredients/)
Im aware of it and I am on livestrong too.
Just too much wheel inventing. There are lots of good ones to buy0
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