Is eating 4% below BMR really that bad?
Replies
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So then are you saying, if you aren't exercising, it isn't ok to eat below BMR, even if it is only 4% below?Also, in your example, if I ate 1784 and then burned 300 calories exercising, I'd still only be netting 1484 anyway. So how is that any different?
The difference is the fact that you're exercising. Exercise precipitates a whole host of hormonal responses and changes that push your body to maintain muscle mass and metabolism. This helps maintain metabolism and circulatory health.
If you do no exercise while losing weight, your metabolism slows rather dramatically, you lose a lot more muscle mass, etc.
Netting 1480 calories while exercising regularly is very different from netting 1480 while not exercising.
And it is ok, if you are exercising?
He is talking about eating back your exercise calorie, so in theory you are eatng mor than 14800 -
That doesn't matter - it is what you net that counts.
So then are you saying, if you aren't exercising, it isn't ok to eat below BMR, even if it is only 4% below?Also, in your example, if I ate 1784 and then burned 300 calories exercising, I'd still only be netting 1484 anyway. So how is that any different?
The difference is the fact that you're exercising. Exercise precipitates a whole host of hormonal responses and changes that push your body to maintain muscle mass and metabolism. This helps maintain metabolism and circulatory health.
If you do no exercise while losing weight, your metabolism slows rather dramatically, you lose a lot more muscle mass, etc.
Netting 1480 calories while exercising regularly is very different from netting 1480 while not exercising.
And it is ok, if you are exercising?
He is talking about eating back your exercise calorie, so in theory you are eatng mor than 14800 -
I don't think it's fair to tell CM that 3 pound weights are going to do nothing for her. She's currently eating below her BMR because of not being able to exercise at all but as she's willing to start with 3 pound weights then I say she should go for it. She can start with that and graduate a few times a week to slightly higher weights if she feels that the 3 pounders are too light. Getting started is more than half the battle and I understand her struggles. I was almost entirely immobile for the past 2 years waiting for spine surgery. I could get myself from a chair or a bed to the bathroom with a great deal of pain and then barely had it in me to get back to a chair or bed. That was as much as I could move. I could stand still, upright for up to 10 minutes max but the pains was so bad I would probably have been burning calories from the pain if it weren't for the fact that the adrenal glands are affected by pain and stress and tend to cause the body to go into storage mode. It took me a year to lose 17 pounds being immobile like that. My body was shut down so even adding 3 pound wrist weights to my arms and doing arm exercises in bed was doing 'something' to raise my BMR and burn some calories (granted a pittance). I've had my surgery in January and although it wasn't a "cure", I can now stand for up to an hour at a time and I'm doing crunches and walking. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to do more than that but where weight management and health is concerned, anything is better than nothing. I agree she shouldn't be eating below her BMR to continue losing weight but obviously she knows this and that's why she wants to add in something to help.
CM just go ahead and get started. Start with 3 pounds and just challenge yourself to increase sets and reps until you feel ready to increase the weight. Worry about adjusting your intake once you get yourself into an established pattern of exercise no matter how big or little it is.0 -
edited belowI don't think it's fair to tell CM that 3 pound weights are going to do nothing for her. She's currently eating below her BMR because of not being able to exercise at all but as she's willing to start with 3 pound weights then I say she should go for it. She can start with that and graduate a few times a week to slightly higher weights if she feels that the 3 pounders are too light. Getting started is more than half the battle and I understand her struggles. I was almost entirely immobile for the past 2 years waiting for spine surgery. I could get myself from a chair or a bed to the bathroom with a great deal of pain and then barely had it in me to get back to a chair or bed. That was as much as I could move. I could stand still, upright for up to 10 minutes max but the pains was so bad I would probably have been burning calories from the pain if it weren't for the fact that the adrenal glands are affected by pain and stress and tend to cause the body to go into storage mode. It took me a year to lose 17 pounds being immobile like that. My body was shut down so even adding 3 pound wrist weights to my arms and doing arm exercises in bed was doing 'something' to raise my BMR and burn some calories (granted a pittance). I've had my surgery in January and although it wasn't a "cure", I can now stand for up to an hour at a time and I'm doing crunches and walking. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to do more than that but where weight management and health is concerned, anything is better than nothing. I agree she shouldn't be eating below her BMR to continue losing weight but obviously she knows this and that's why she wants to add in something to help.
CM just go ahead and get started. Start with 3 pounds and just challenge yourself to increase sets and reps until you feel ready to increase the weight. Worry about adjusting your intake once you get yourself into an established pattern of exercise no matter how big or little it is.0 -
Thank you.I don't think it's fair to tell CM that 3 pound weights are going to do nothing for her. She's currently eating below her BMR because of not being able to exercise at all but as she's willing to start with 3 pound weights then I say she should go for it. She can start with that and graduate a few times a week to slightly higher weights if she feels that the 3 pounders are too light. Getting started is more than half the battle and I understand her struggles. I was almost entirely immobile for the past 2 years waiting for spine surgery. I could get myself from a chair or a bed to the bathroom with a great deal of pain and then barely had it in me to get back to a chair or bed. That was as much as I could move. I could stand still, upright for up to 10 minutes max but the pains was so bad I would probably have been burning calories from the pain if it weren't for the fact that the adrenal glands are affected by pain and stress and tend to cause the body to go into storage mode. It took me a year to lose 17 pounds being immobile like that. My body was shut down so even adding 3 pound wrist weights to my arms and doing arm exercises in bed was doing 'something' to raise my BMR and burn some calories (granted a pittance). I've had my surgery in January and although it wasn't a "cure", I can now stand for up to an hour at a time and I'm doing crunches and walking. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to do more than that but where weight management and health is concerned, anything is better than nothing. I agree she shouldn't be eating below her BMR to continue losing weight but obviously she knows this and that's why she wants to add in something to help.
CM just go ahead and get started. Start with 3 pounds and just challenge yourself to increase sets and reps until you feel ready to increase the weight. Worry about adjusting your intake once you get yourself into an established pattern of exercise no matter how big or little it is.
The main reason I asked this question was because everybody always says that none of this is exact and there is a margin of error. So one would think that 4% fits into that margin of error. For all I know, I may not even be eating under my BMR to begin with.
I understand that Johnny was suggesting I not use a 20% deficit from TDEE if I'm not exercising, but it seems like that is just his opinion. I'm still not 100% sure I understand why eating at a 20% deficit and not exercising is wrong or a bad thing to do.
Heck - he actually said that if you aren't exercising, you should not try to lose any weight - period. That is the first time I have EVER heard someone say that.
I would think in the long run, for someone that is considered obese, it would be better for their overall health to lose weight - whether they exercise or not.
I understand that exercise will benefit my health- but it is unclear to me how eating at a 20% deficit and not exercising will negatively effect my healthy - besides the possibility of losing some muscle. As some have said, for all I know, I could be burning a lot more calories during the day than I think - and maybe I'm not as sedentary as I think. All of this is an estimation.
It is just that you tend to see a lot of opinions on what is right and what is wrong, but rarely do I see any facts to back up that information.0 -
OH MY GOD YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!
No. Those with the knowledge set of a general MFP user seem to think that you should never EVER eat below your BMR.
This is the only group of peolpe i have ever met that seem to think eating below your BMR when you are obese/overweight is extremely harmful. Even physicians and nutritionists with formal training and education will suggest you consume "x" deficit regardless of your BMR.
Assuming you are consuming adequate protein, fats, and micronutrients there is no reason to freak out about eating below your BMR.0 -
What about eating at a TDEE deficit while not exercising?OH MY GOD YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!
No. Those with the knowledge set of a general MFP user seem to think that you should never EVER eat below your BMR.
This is the only group of peolpe i have ever met that seem to think eating below your BMR when you are obese/overweight is extremely harmful. Even physicians and nutritionists with formal training and education will suggest you consume "x" deficit regardless of your BMR.
Assuming you are consuming adequate protein, fats, and micronutrients there is no reason to freak out about eating below your BMR.
Another words TDEE at sedentary - minus 20% - no exercise. Am I going to die?0 -
What about eating at a TDEE deficit while not exercising?OH MY GOD YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!
No. Those with the knowledge set of a general MFP user seem to think that you should never EVER eat below your BMR.
This is the only group of peolpe i have ever met that seem to think eating below your BMR when you are obese/overweight is extremely harmful. Even physicians and nutritionists with formal training and education will suggest you consume "x" deficit regardless of your BMR.
Assuming you are consuming adequate protein, fats, and micronutrients there is no reason to freak out about eating below your BMR.
Another words TDEE at sedentary - minus 20% - no exercise. Am I going to die?
No,but you are likely to get weaker than you already are. I would suggest a smaller deficit. 10-15 percent. Why starve yourself and lose lean muscle for quick weight loss when you can eat more, maintain muscle and lose more slowly?0 -
For the naysayers out there, just step back a minute. Her TDEE is 1900. She is talking about eating 1500. This is a very reasonable deficit. Does anyone really think a 400 cal daily deficit is unhealthy (assuming she has at least 10 or so lbs to lose)?
Regarding the exercise, it's not helpful to jump down someone's throat asking for help with calorie intake for not "exercising". Exercise is just purposeful calorie expenditure and its only relevance to weight loss is increasing TDEE. Yes, you will lose more muscle if you don't strength train while eating at a deficit, but since muscle is lost in even an ideal situation the difference is just a matter of degree.0 -
yo debo de comer 1200 cal para perder 15 kilos eso me marco mfp!! y ejercitar minimo 3 horas a la semana! es muy poco entonces????
Si, esta poco. Come tus calorías extras cuando haces ejercicio?0 -
40% would be but not 4%...
If it was, no one would be losing weight anytime soon!0 -
Pretty sure the "do not eat below BMR" thing is a made up rule. 20% below TDEE is reasonable regardless of it's relationship to BMR.0
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I understand that if you use "sedentary tdee" that I need to eat back exercise calories.
But you said that you shouldn't eat at 20% deficit if you are sedentary and not exercising.
My question was why would these calculators even give you a tdee-20% calculation for sedentary, if you shouldn't do that much of a deficit? It doesn't make sense to me that they are just "assuming" that I will exercise on top of that number. If they wanted me to exercise, then sedentary shouldn't even be an option. Do you know what I'm saying?
I want to point out that I'm not arguing with any of the advice being given here. But I see a lot of advice thrown around without an explanation behind it. If I am going to follow the advice of someone - I want to understand the reasoning behind why I should be doing something.
The calculators give you a TDEE-20% calculation for sedentary because they assume you will be adding exercise calories on top of the number that you get.
I personally set my calorie goal to about TDEE - 20% for sedentary. I add exercise calories back on top of that.
If I did no exercise, I would not set my calorie goal to TDEE - 20% for sedentary.
The reason I recommend not doing that is because eating a significant calorie deficit while doing no exercise is a recipe for muscle loss, poor cardiovascular health, fat maintenance, fatigue, and general feelings of tiredness and lethargy.
Perfectly safe to eat slightly below your BMR when sedentary, especially if you have 40 lbs to lose.
Ok, I understand what you are saying.
So basically, to answer my original question - since I am not currently exercising, I should not use TDEE - 20%.
I should use a lower deficit for now.
If I begin exercising, I can increase the deficit to 20% and it would be ok to be slightly under my BMR.
Correct?
Yes, that would be my recommendation.
Ok makes sense.
How accurate do you think the TDEE calculators are that don't include body fat (since I don't have a caliper to measure body fat). ?
They seem to be really good for normal people actually. Pretty much everyone I know that followed them lost weight at expected speed.
Good to know!
So problem now is, you say its ok to be a little below BMR (if i'm exercising) because it isn't a magical number and I should be more concerned about the size of my deficit.
Yet others here say the BMR is what you need in a coma and you should never, ever eat below it.
So who is right?
it is perfectly safe for you to eat below your BMR given you are sedentary and especially because you have 40 lbs to lose. Your body is going to metabolize your excess fat to make up your deficit. Try to keep your protein consumption to .8-1 g / lb of LBM.0 -
Me too!I say just set it to 1500 and be done with it. I like nice even numbers!0 -
No. 1484 is a perfectly appropriate calorie goal for you.
However, you should not find yourself actually eating that many calories often. 1856 is your *sedentary* TDEE, so you need to add exercise calories on top of that. If you spend half an hour on the treadmill, your TDEE for that day will be morelike 2156. This means you'll have to eat about 1784 calories that day.
IMO you should set your calorie goal in MFP to 1484 and add exercise calories. If you find yourself eating fewer than 1547 calories often, it means you need to start getting a little more exercise. The fact that 1484 is below 1547 is completely irrelevant.
My activity level is sedentary right now, as I stated above. I am not exercising at this time - so I would be eating 1484 every single day. (or average for the week).
So is that a problem then?
I don't recommend trying to lose weight while living a completely sedentary lifestyle.
LOL that's a ridiculous statement0 -
Have you looked at chair exercises? There are a bunch of short videos on youtube that you may be able to do, even with your injury. I found this one in just a quick search:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_XEGNgx0W4 The first part is all light upper body without weights but you could add weights as you get stronger. This is another one that you might be able to do: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3NDzgqjfyU
Good luck!
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I need help here I don't even understand the terminology. I am wondering if I should change my calories carbs daily intake.What do all these abbreviations mean and where can I find them to calculate what I need ? Thanks !0
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I don't exactly consider it starving myself and losing weight quickly, when it took over a year to lose 40 lbs, at around 1350 calories.
What about eating at a TDEE deficit while not exercising?OH MY GOD YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!
No. Those with the knowledge set of a general MFP user seem to think that you should never EVER eat below your BMR.
This is the only group of peolpe i have ever met that seem to think eating below your BMR when you are obese/overweight is extremely harmful. Even physicians and nutritionists with formal training and education will suggest you consume "x" deficit regardless of your BMR.
Assuming you are consuming adequate protein, fats, and micronutrients there is no reason to freak out about eating below your BMR.
Another words TDEE at sedentary - minus 20% - no exercise. Am I going to die?
No,but you are likely to get weaker than you already are. I would suggest a smaller deficit. 10-15 percent. Why starve yourself and lose lean muscle for quick weight loss when you can eat more, maintain muscle and lose more slowly?0 -
Thanks to everyone for all of the opinions, input, information and suggestions.
I'm really trying to learn from all angles - then take that information and use it to my best advantage.
I don't agree with that idea that it is bad to try to lose weight if you aren't exercising at all. I understand the benefits of exercise - but I also believe that you can lose weight in a healthy way without it. That wasn't my reason for posting my question here.
Some have said that BMR isn't as important, and TDEE and deficit are most important. I can understand that reasoning - so now I am not so much concerned about eating below BMR anymore - especially when it is such a small percentage.
I'm still a little confused about whether or not a 20% deficit is ok for me at this point. I could live with a 15% deficit - but if I can increase my weight loss a little bit without negatively effecting my overall health - then I don't see the problem with 20%.0 -
Unfortunately, that isn't the first person who has told me that.No. 1484 is a perfectly appropriate calorie goal for you.
However, you should not find yourself actually eating that many calories often. 1856 is your *sedentary* TDEE, so you need to add exercise calories on top of that. If you spend half an hour on the treadmill, your TDEE for that day will be morelike 2156. This means you'll have to eat about 1784 calories that day.
IMO you should set your calorie goal in MFP to 1484 and add exercise calories. If you find yourself eating fewer than 1547 calories often, it means you need to start getting a little more exercise. The fact that 1484 is below 1547 is completely irrelevant.
My activity level is sedentary right now, as I stated above. I am not exercising at this time - so I would be eating 1484 every single day. (or average for the week).
So is that a problem then?
I don't recommend trying to lose weight while living a completely sedentary lifestyle.
LOL that's a ridiculous statement0 -
I understand that if you use "sedentary tdee" that I need to eat back exercise calories.
But you said that you shouldn't eat at 20% deficit if you are sedentary and not exercising.
My question was why would these calculators even give you a tdee-20% calculation for sedentary, if you shouldn't do that much of a deficit? It doesn't make sense to me that they are just "assuming" that I will exercise on top of that number. If they wanted me to exercise, then sedentary shouldn't even be an option. Do you know what I'm saying?
I want to point out that I'm not arguing with any of the advice being given here. But I see a lot of advice thrown around without an explanation behind it. If I am going to follow the advice of someone - I want to understand the reasoning behind why I should be doing something.
The calculators give you a TDEE-20% calculation for sedentary because they assume you will be adding exercise calories on top of the number that you get.
I personally set my calorie goal to about TDEE - 20% for sedentary. I add exercise calories back on top of that.
If I did no exercise, I would not set my calorie goal to TDEE - 20% for sedentary.
The reason I recommend not doing that is because eating a significant calorie deficit while doing no exercise is a recipe for muscle loss, poor cardiovascular health, fat maintenance, fatigue, and general feelings of tiredness and lethargy.
Perfectly safe to eat slightly below your BMR when sedentary, especially if you have 40 lbs to lose.
Ok, I understand what you are saying.
So basically, to answer my original question - since I am not currently exercising, I should not use TDEE - 20%.
I should use a lower deficit for now.
If I begin exercising, I can increase the deficit to 20% and it would be ok to be slightly under my BMR.
Correct?
Yes, that would be my recommendation.
Ok makes sense.
How accurate do you think the TDEE calculators are that don't include body fat (since I don't have a caliper to measure body fat). ?
They seem to be really good for normal people actually. Pretty much everyone I know that followed them lost weight at expected speed.
Good to know!
So problem now is, you say its ok to be a little below BMR (if i'm exercising) because it isn't a magical number and I should be more concerned about the size of my deficit.
Yet others here say the BMR is what you need in a coma and you should never, ever eat below it.
So who is right?
it is perfectly safe for you to eat below your BMR given you are sedentary and especially because you have 40 lbs to lose. Your body is going to metabolize your excess fat to make up your deficit. Try to keep your protein consumption to .8-1 g / lb of LBM.
thanks, this makes sense.0 -
Oh man you're concerned with that. I must be doing something very wrong then. My work out set me at 1200cal a day without exercise. I'm having trouble just eating that much. I'm just not hungry : /. Does the calorie intake depend on height? Now I feel the need to do research before asking more dumb questions.0
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There is no problem eating under your bmr especially if you have lots of fat stores. I am under the care of a dietician. I walk 40 mins 3 times a week and lift weights 3 to 4 times a week. I have maintained my LBM whilst eating under my bmr.0
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It's fine. You are talking 60 calories under -- this is well within the range of estimation error. You don't know your BMR exactly, the calorie content of your food exactly, or the amount you are eating exactly. The "don't eat under your BMR" rule is something you only see advocated here on MFP and is basically a way of advising against very large deficits as a way to lose weight -- you would not fall into that category.
Yeah, that is what I was going to say. But, it bears repeating. 60 calories aren't that many. No one eats exactly the same calories everyday or burns the exact same calories everyday. So, there is a margin of error. But, I wouldn't advise overeating 60 calories a day everyday, it will still add up.0 -
Oh man you're concerned with that. I must be doing something very wrong then. My work out set me at 1200cal a day without exercise. I'm having trouble just eating that much. I'm just not hungry : /. Does the calorie intake depend on height? Now I feel the need to do research before asking more dumb questions.
It's not personal but I almost get angry seeing posts like yours. I struggle to gain enough exercise calories just to be able to eat at a deficit, and it STILL feels like I'm not eating much. I guess I can't fathom how someone could struggle to reach such a low calorie amount, especially considering how quickly calorie dense foods can fill that gap (eg: peanut butter, avacados or just junk food).0 -
And as you lose weight, you'll lose muscle, which means your metabolic rate slows even faster than from just weight loss alone.And what exactly is the reason for that? You don't have to exercise to aid in weight loss, it just prevents muscle loss.
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There is obviously a margin of error when using calculators for BMR and TDEE. Eating under your true BMR (not the guesstimate) for long periods of time can be counter-productive because the body will figure out how to use less energy to function (out of necessity), which will lower your metabolism. Lower metabolism is clearly not great for fat loss or weight loss.
As I understand the math, 3500 calories = 1 lb of fat, whereas 600 calories = 1 lb of muscle. So, when your body is trying to figure out what to burn when it isn't getting enough energy (calories), it's going to choose some combination of the two because it's more efficient for the body to break down LBM. Muscle helps to keep your metabolism up, so it's kind of a double whammy to lower metabolism by not eating enough and then to further reduce it by losing muscle. That's why it's important to do some resistance training, so that your muscles are being used and aren't seen as a good source of energy for the body to deplete.
That's where the whole thing about not eating TDEE-20% while being truly sedentary comes in. You are essentially giving your body permission to burn muscle (and therefore less fat). That's a good way to set yourself up for becoming 'skinny fat,' which means you're probably going to have to make an additional lifestyle change in the future. Can you do it? Certainly. Is it the best path? Hard to imagine it is. Eating at TDEE-15% or 10% while being truly sedentary just gives your body less permission to burn LBM. It'll probably still happen, but to a lesser extent. Theoretically, that means you wouldn't have as much to overcome later as you would eating TDEE-20%. It think that's why so many people get fairly up-in-arms about the prospect of eating less with no exercise. It's just setting up a more difficult road later.
As this applies to you, I don't think your body is going to shut down by eating 4% below your guesstimate BMR. If I were you, I'd probably opt for 15% in the short-term, though. It doesn't appear that you're unwilling to exercise, just that you are unable for the time being. That leads me to believe that in the future, you will be willing to, so more potential muscle loss seems like a bad idea because it will just make it more difficult for you when you are well enough to engage more fully in exercise (specifically resistance training). I do think it's great that you're working on doing some dumbbell work, no matter the weight. You aren't going to be burning a lot of calories, so I wouldn't even worry about that aspect of it. You should try to keep in mind, though, that you don't need to do high reps with the weights. Start out at 3 lbs, but as you gain some strength and you find that you can do sets of 15 reps without failure, you should try to increase to 5 lbs, etc. That's just going to use your muscles more and therefore help you to preserve them.
All of what I've said could certainly be wrong, but it makes more sense to me than a lot of the other approaches I've seen. Good luck!0 -
I wish my BMR were above 1500. The more calories you have to play with, the easier it is to get those all important nutrients. I might occasionally eat below my BMR, but I would not make a habit of it. You just end up being tired, moving less, and not thinking as well because your brain isn't properly fueled.0
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