Severe carb cutting and ketosis for fat loss...advice?
sarahveela
Posts: 3
I am trying to get rid of about 20 pounds and get back to a toned looking body in a short period of time, I just got out of the ARMY and because of an injury and the huge amount of food per meal at basic, really put some extra fat on FAST. I want to lose it just as quickly as possible! The main thing that helped me to slim down before basic was carb cutting but not excessively. My calorie guideline is always about 1200, before basic I limited myself to about 175-200 grams of carbs a day. I've researched it a little and apparently the best carb intake for steady fat loss is about 50-100 g a day, and 0-50 g a day is putting the body into ketosis which is helpful for very short amounts of time. Therefore, for the next month or so until I see real results I had planned on juggling an intake of about 75 carbs a day, save one or two days each week where I will carb fast and not allow more than 20 or so. Given, I am eating all fresh healthy low carb foods otherwise.
So, any advice on how this has worked for others? Tips on exercise or how to curve hunger when going low carb? Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
So, any advice on how this has worked for others? Tips on exercise or how to curve hunger when going low carb? Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Replies
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I am trying to get rid of about 20 pounds and get back to a toned looking body in a short period of time, I just got out of the ARMY and because of an injury and the huge amount of food per meal at basic, really put some extra fat on FAST. I want to lose it just as quickly as possible! The main thing that helped me to slim down before basic was carb cutting but not excessively. My calorie guideline is always about 1200, before basic I limited myself to about 175-200 grams of carbs a day. I've researched it a little and apparently the best carb intake for steady fat loss is about 50-100 g a day, and 0-50 g a day is putting the body into ketosis which is helpful for very short amounts of time. Therefore, for the next month or so until I see real results I had planned on juggling an intake of about 75 carbs a day, save one or two days each week where I will carb fast and not allow more than 20 or so. Given, I am eating all fresh healthy low carb foods otherwise.
So, any advice on how this has worked for others? Tips on exercise or how to curve hunger when going low carb? Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Holding protein and calories constant, there is not a significant difference in fat loss between low and higher carb diets, assuming no medical conditions that would require you to keep carbs lower. So stick to a diet that is easy for you to adhere to, as that's the most important thing0 -
I am trying to get rid of about 20 pounds and get back to a toned looking body in a short period of time, I just got out of the ARMY and because of an injury and the huge amount of food per meal at basic, really put some extra fat on FAST. I want to lose it just as quickly as possible! The main thing that helped me to slim down before basic was carb cutting but not excessively. My calorie guideline is always about 1200, before basic I limited myself to about 175-200 grams of carbs a day. I've researched it a little and apparently the best carb intake for steady fat loss is about 50-100 g a day, and 0-50 g a day is putting the body into ketosis which is helpful for very short amounts of time. Therefore, for the next month or so until I see real results I had planned on juggling an intake of about 75 carbs a day, save one or two days each week where I will carb fast and not allow more than 20 or so. Given, I am eating all fresh healthy low carb foods otherwise.
So, any advice on how this has worked for others? Tips on exercise or how to curve hunger when going low carb? Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Holding protein and calories constant, there is not a significant difference in fat loss between low and higher carb diets, assuming no medical conditions that would require you to keep carbs lower. So stick to a diet that is easy for you to adhere to, as that's the most important thing
agreed.0 -
thisI am trying to get rid of about 20 pounds and get back to a toned looking body in a short period of time, I just got out of the ARMY and because of an injury and the huge amount of food per meal at basic, really put some extra fat on FAST. I want to lose it just as quickly as possible! The main thing that helped me to slim down before basic was carb cutting but not excessively. My calorie guideline is always about 1200, before basic I limited myself to about 175-200 grams of carbs a day. I've researched it a little and apparently the best carb intake for steady fat loss is about 50-100 g a day, and 0-50 g a day is putting the body into ketosis which is helpful for very short amounts of time. Therefore, for the next month or so until I see real results I had planned on juggling an intake of about 75 carbs a day, save one or two days each week where I will carb fast and not allow more than 20 or so. Given, I am eating all fresh healthy low carb foods otherwise.
So, any advice on how this has worked for others? Tips on exercise or how to curve hunger when going low carb? Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Holding protein and calories constant, there is not a significant difference in fat loss between low and higher carb diets, assuming no medical conditions that would require you to keep carbs lower. So stick to a diet that is easy for you to adhere to, as that's the most important thing
a diet isnt a short term thing but a sustainable lifestyle0 -
Thanks guys. Although, are you sure this isn't only the case for people who have a lot of fat to lose? I'm not a big person and (with clothes on lol) I look perfectly in shape. It's just that I'm a little chubby all around at the moment but I truthfully don't have too much to lose and I've heard that the less you need to lose the harder it is to lose it. So maybe while carb cutting wouldn't make a difference for someone with 60+ lbs to lose, it seems to make sense that it would help for people who are very close to their goal...
Also! I agree with that of course but apparently the whole maintainable factor with carbs is that you do this short term to lose fast but then keep your diet always at a lower number of carbs (around 150g daily maybe) to maintain.0 -
I use keto for fat loss for comp but U then revert to carbs to bulk. So it depends how controlled you can be for eating. I know it works well for me, it strips the fat off me like nobodies business:
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I have no experience with intentionally alternating higher carb days with low carb days. (You may not even get into ketosis with that approach, and so yes you will feel hungry and crave carbs.) I do, however, have lots of experience with the ketogenic lifestyle. IMO, I don't know what benefits that you will have with that approach. FYI, if you do get into a ketogenic state you will not be struggling with hunger. Carbohydrates and hunger go together and there's physiological reasons why.
I also don't think this lifestyle is useful for quick weight loss, ie your mention of "a short period of time" IF you want to maintain the loss. If you only plan to use this lifestyle for weight loss and then go back to your previous way of eating, what do you think will happen? The benefits of reducing carbs go far beyond weight loss and those benefits disappear quickly once one returns to a high carb eating plan. (200 grams of carbs per day; holy batman!)
You should consider posting this topic in a forum for keto or low carb people. The general forum is not a good place for discussing anything other than the Standard American Diet, calories in/calories out, if it fits your macros etc.
Edit: for once I (almost) agree with everyone else. Find an eating plan that you like and is sustainable forever. Temporary dieting is useless.0 -
I did a ketogenic diet for about 6 months and only had maybe 4 cheat days total through the whole thing. I dropped about 22lbs. Then I went back to eating "normal" over December/Christmas and gained all but 6lbs of it back. Given, I was bingeing a little because of all the tasty things I missed, but it ended up being not a good choice.
I will say that I did like the ketogenic diet. I was almost never hungry, and after the first week or so, stopped craving carbs. Currently, I'm doing clean eating and limiting meat and grain consumption. My carbs are in the 100-150g/day neighborhood and it's good, but not the same as 20g/day that I had before.0 -
See that's the bad thing lol if you think 200 g of carbs a day is bad then almost everyone I know should be way bigger because most people that I know who are not dieting, including me on what I feel is a terrible eating day...can seriously take in about 600g of carbs. Carbs are just everywhere man! And who eats roast beef and spinach for fun? I used to get way into brownies/cookies/cappuccinos...in my opinion, the real benefit of me doing this low carb thing is to break myself of those habits because my sweet tooth is what makes me weight cycle to begin with. I'd like to get lean and stay that way by first breaking myy bad eating habits then maintaining by allowing something like that only once or twice a week.0
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.in my opinion, the real benefit of me doing this low carb thing is to break myself of those habits because my sweet tooth is what makes me weight cycle to begin with. I'd like to get lean and stay that way by first breaking myy bad eating habits then maintaining by allowing something like that only once or twice a week.
The reason that the very strict low carb worked so well for me was because it was that, very strict. If something was just NOT an option, then it wasn't, and being tempted by it didn't work. Having a diet where slipping up is a kind of big deal (throwing you out of ketosis, etc) worked well for me.
I'm still trying to figure out the ropes on something where there's some wiggle room. You may want to check out lowcarbfriends and see if that's a useful forum.0 -
See that's the bad thing lol if you think 200 g of carbs a day is bad then almost everyone I know should be way bigger because most people that I know who are not dieting, including me on what I feel is a terrible eating day...can seriously take in about 600g of carbs. Carbs are just everywhere man! And who eats roast beef and spinach for fun? I used to get way into brownies/cookies/cappuccinos...in my opinion, the real benefit of me doing this low carb thing is to break myself of those habits because my sweet tooth is what makes me weight cycle to begin with. I'd like to get lean and stay that way by first breaking myy bad eating habits then maintaining by allowing something like that only once or twice a week.
Then why are you going to ask us if you are going to do it anyway?
stop trying to justify your diet.
You are not trying to convince us. You are trying to convince yourself.
Go do your diet and dont even respond please.-1 -
I use keto for fat loss for comp but U then revert to carbs to bulk. So it depends how controlled you can be for eating. I know it works well for me, it strips the fat off me like nobodies business:
not everyone is a bb competitor and people need to learn a proper diet.
you and I both know that if a regular person goes hypercaloric they probably are also not going to the gym and their weight gain is not intentional like yours.
Going slightly hypercaloric is fine if you are exercising. Average person does and doesnt even do physical activity, its bad for their health.0 -
FYI I've spent over two and a half years researching VLCKD (Very-Low-Carb-Ketogenic-Diets) for weight-loss, and I strongly encourage them in certain circumstances, but not yours.
With only 20lbs to lose, you're obviously not morbidly obese, and having been medically-approved for the army's basic training, you're also not dealing with any metabolic disorders that require a lower carbohydrate intake.
Yes, ketosis can help with fat-loss ... but only once keto-adapted. If you've never been keto-adapted, it can take anywhere from 3 to 8 weeks (depending on your commitment to diet/exercise) to become fully keto-adapted. (Those who use a cyclic ketogenic diet seem to be able to get in/out of the keto-adapted state faster than others.)
As such, with only 20lbs to lose, it makes MUCH more sense to me that you target a healthy macronutrient ratio sufficient for your needs (40/30/30 of carb/fat/protein is a good place to start) and select a calorie goal that keeps you above BMR but below your TDEE.
Remember as well, the larger initial weight-loss of a ketogenic diet is water- not fat. This is why many people have a great first few weeks, then slow down considerably... Also, most people who are ketogenic dieters find the last 20lbs just as hard to lose as people on any other diet...
If you want to reduce refined carbohydrate, by all means do so. There's certainly more nutrients available in vegetables and whole grains than in refined products that may or may not be fortified...
... but I personally see no need for you to go ketogenic, especially for 20lbs.
As for curbing hunger ... if you're doing a ketogenic diet right, you're eating around 5% of your calories from carbohydrate, 70% or more of you calories from fat and about 25% from protein... with the majority of calories coming from fat and protein, most ketogenic dieters are NOT hungry.0 -
I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here. The Ketogenic Diet works for anyone with body fat. My BMI is less than 24 and I'm still doing it, after watching a girlfriend get amazing results needing only 10lbs to lose. Ketosis takes 3-5 days to achieve if you are eating a very restrictive caloric (500-600) and carb (10 net g) diet with electrolyte water (16oz/day), a multivitamin, a great vitamin D, omega-3 fatty acid, and once you're in the cycle, a fat burner (all 3 once at breakfast and again at lunch). You can buy urine test strips to see when you're in ketosis and at what stage you are in. I did this diet under the supervision of a cardiologist and a nutritionist. It was well worth the $100 for the B-12 injections and the appetite suppressants. I do recommend getting an EKG before you start this diet, but it definitely works and the only side effect I've had is a slight amount of dizziness from the appetite suppressant. I'm down 8 pounds and this is my 10th day. The second week, since I had so little to lose, I start reintroducing carbs by an additional 10 net grams/week until I'm up to 100. I also do an intense boot camp 5 times a week, so my nutritional needs might vary from other's. you are not allowed to exercise for the first week, by the way. I mean, you can, but you'll feel sick the rest of the day.0
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advice? dont do it0
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I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here. The Ketogenic Diet works for anyone with body fat. My BMI is less than 24 and I'm still doing it, after watching a girlfriend get amazing results needing only 10lbs to lose. Ketosis takes 3-5 days to achieve if you are eating a very restrictive caloric (500-600) and carb (10 net g) diet with electrolyte water (16oz/day), a multivitamin, a great vitamin D, omega-3 fatty acid, and once you're in the cycle, a fat burner (all 3 once at breakfast and again at lunch). You can buy urine test strips to see when you're in ketosis and at what stage you are in. I did this diet under the supervision of a cardiologist and a nutritionist. It was well worth the $100 for the B-12 injections and the appetite suppressants. I do recommend getting an EKG before you start this diet, but it definitely works and the only side effect I've had is a slight amount of dizziness from the appetite suppressant. I'm down 8 pounds and this is my 10th day. The second week, since I had so little to lose, I start reintroducing carbs by an additional 10 net grams/week until I'm up to 100. I also do an intense boot camp 5 times a week, so my nutritional needs might vary from other's. you are not allowed to exercise for the first week, by the way. I mean, you can, but you'll feel sick the rest of the day.
600 calories a day, 10 days into this. Come back in 6 months and tell us if you kept off all this water weight loss :noway:
Op, don't do this. This is idiotic.0 -
There seem to be alot of people with severe food issues on here....
If you want to lose 20lb then eat less, move more. Starvation and deliberately putting your body into a state of ketosis is not the way to go and anyone who encourages it needs a good smack around the head in my opinion. Just sayin....
What is with people wanting instant results? It takes time to lose weight healthily and if you take the time to do it properly it is more likely to stay off.
But I guess nobody wants to hear that0 -
I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here. The Ketogenic Diet works for anyone with body fat. My BMI is less than 24 and I'm still doing it, after watching a girlfriend get amazing results needing only 10lbs to lose. Ketosis takes 3-5 days to achieve if you are eating a very restrictive caloric (500-600) and carb (10 net g) diet with electrolyte water (16oz/day), a multivitamin, a great vitamin D, omega-3 fatty acid, and once you're in the cycle, a fat burner (all 3 once at breakfast and again at lunch). You can buy urine test strips to see when you're in ketosis and at what stage you are in. I did this diet under the supervision of a cardiologist and a nutritionist. It was well worth the $100 for the B-12 injections and the appetite suppressants. I do recommend getting an EKG before you start this diet, but it definitely works and the only side effect I've had is a slight amount of dizziness from the appetite suppressant. I'm down 8 pounds and this is my 10th day. The second week, since I had so little to lose, I start reintroducing carbs by an additional 10 net grams/week until I'm up to 100. I also do an intense boot camp 5 times a week, so my nutritional needs might vary from other's. you are not allowed to exercise for the first week, by the way. I mean, you can, but you'll feel sick the rest of the day.
600 calories a day, 10 days into this. Come back in 6 months and tell us if you kept off all this water weight loss :noway:
Op, don't do this. This is idiotic.
I second that! 8 pounds in 10 days is crazy and temporary.
Reading that recommendation for the diet-- EKG, app suppressants, 600 cals a day, feel sick if you exercise-- seriously, HOW can that do more good than harm? Be sensible, be patient, eat clean, steadily challenge your body with progressive exercise, and expect a genuine lifestyle change with longterm results.0 -
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http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/963088-level-obstacles-lose-weight-target-fat-easy?hl=Lose+weight+obstacles+easy+&page=1#posts-14690973
This is an excellent post on losing weight healthily :bigsmile:0 -
What is with people wanting instant results? It takes time to lose weight healthily and if you take the time to do it properly it is more likely to stay off.
But I guess nobody wants to hear that
I agree with this. It took me a looooong time to get up to 250lb. I life style change of eating right and exercise reversed it.
I didn't get fat over night and I didn't get fit over night.0 -
What is with people wanting instant results? It takes time to lose weight healthily and if you take the time to do it properly it is more likely to stay off.
But I guess nobody wants to hear that
I agree with this. It took me a looooong time to get up to 250lb. I life style change of eating right and exercise reversed it.
I didn't get fat over night and I didn't get fit over night.
agree agree agree
ketosis is unsustainable. not a way you can live long term. you don't learn how to do it right, you'll be fat again in no time once you go back to eating "normal"0 -
Your first post is NOT looking well.I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here. The Ketogenic Diet works for anyone with body fat. My BMI is less than 24 and I'm still doing it, after watching a girlfriend get amazing results needing only 10lbs to lose. Ketosis takes 3-5 days to achieve if you are eating a very restrictive caloric (500-600) and carb (10 net g) diet with electrolyte water (16oz/day), a multivitamin, a great vitamin D, omega-3 fatty acid, and once you're in the cycle, a fat burner (all 3 once at breakfast and again at lunch). You can buy urine test strips to see when you're in ketosis and at what stage you are in. I did this diet under the supervision of a cardiologist and a nutritionist. It was well worth the $100 for the B-12 injections and the appetite suppressants. I do recommend getting an EKG before you start this diet, but it definitely works and the only side effect I've had is a slight amount of dizziness from the appetite suppressant. I'm down 8 pounds and this is my 10th day. The second week, since I had so little to lose, I start reintroducing carbs by an additional 10 net grams/week until I'm up to 100. I also do an intense boot camp 5 times a week, so my nutritional needs might vary from other's. you are not allowed to exercise for the first week, by the way. I mean, you can, but you'll feel sick the rest of the day.
First, you can get into ketosis is about 2 days if you do it right ... not 3 - 5 ... and yes, you'll lose weight - but initial weight-loss is water. Also, being in ketosis is NOT the same as being keto-adapted (where your metabolism burns fatty-acids primarily instead of glucose). Being fully keto-adapted can take up to 7 weeks, even more.
600 calories a day could actually be dangerous on a VLCKD (very-low-carb ketogenic diet) and should be medically supervised and just isn't recommended.
Again, without a metabolic NEED for a VLCKD (very low-carb ketogenic diet) such as diabetes, morbid obesity, metabolic syndrome, insulin-resistance from any of the former or other conditions such as PCOS or Hashimoto's thyroiditis, there is no need or advantage in using a low-carb ketogenic diet.0 -
Actually coach - Ketosis is NOT unsustainable.agree agree agree
ketosis is unsustainable. not a way you can live long term. you don't learn how to do it right, you'll be fat again in no time once you go back to eating "normal"
In fact, I personally know people that have been in ketosis since 1999. I've been in ketosis myself for about 2 and a half years.
It's easily sustainable - but should ONLY be a long-term solution in those with a metabolic need, or epilepsy - I keep forgetting to add epilepsy - ketogenic diets have been recommended and used to treat both epilepsy and diabetes for well-over a century. Diabetics stopped after the advent of insulin, but many are going BACK to ketogenic diets as it reduces need for insulin and prevents hypoglycaemia.
But again, it's easily sustainable. It's just not NEEDED for someone that wants to lose 20lbs.0 -
I used to get way into brownies/cookies/cappuccinos...in my opinion, the real benefit of me doing this low carb thing is to break myself of those habits because my sweet tooth is what makes me weight cycle to begin with. I'd like to get lean and stay that way by first breaking myy bad eating habits then maintaining by allowing something like that only once or twice a week.
Depending on how frequently you indulge in something like this and how many calories you're eating during the day in combination, you could probably just cut out the sweets (mostly, a treat here and there will keep it sustainable) and be fine within a four to five months.0 -
I stay in mild ketosis (ie when I measure on a pee stick it's in the "some ketones present" range, usually) and am very lean while eating really delicious food. If you decide to do it, just MAKE SURE YOU'RE EATING ENOUGH FAT. People that complain about feeling like crap while "low-carbing" (I'm not a fan of that term...I just don't eat crap!
) almost always have the problem of too little dietary fat.
And as far as staying satisfied, it's easy when primarily consuming fat and some protein. Those are very satisfying foods, in general, and take much (MUCH) longer to digest than carbohydrate, so you feel full for quite a bit longer--moreso, than, like, bread or crackers or pasta or whatever. Now all that stuff tastes like filler to me, like it's getting in the way of the "real" food that actually tastes good. But, like others have posted, choose a "diet" that you will stick with. I prefer this way of eating...but severely cutting carbs and then eating a ton again will likely result in you gaining the weight right back. However you decide to eat, whatever works best for your energy, health, cravings, and lifestyle, is what is sustainable for YOU. That's what you need.0 -
What is keto ? Please explain. Thank you0
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I am trying to get rid of about 20 pounds and get back to a toned looking body in a short period of time, I just got out of the ARMY and because of an injury and the huge amount of food per meal at basic, really put some extra fat on FAST. I want to lose it just as quickly as possible! The main thing that helped me to slim down before basic was carb cutting but not excessively. My calorie guideline is always about 1200, before basic I limited myself to about 175-200 grams of carbs a day. I've researched it a little and apparently the best carb intake for steady fat loss is about 50-100 g a day, and 0-50 g a day is putting the body into ketosis which is helpful for very short amounts of time. Therefore, for the next month or so until I see real results I had planned on juggling an intake of about 75 carbs a day, save one or two days each week where I will carb fast and not allow more than 20 or so. Given, I am eating all fresh healthy low carb foods otherwise.
So, any advice on how this has worked for others? Tips on exercise or how to curve hunger when going low carb? Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Its a shame you didnt get the support this site purports to offer ( on this subject )...but thats probably born out of a lack of understanding of the subject.
I m about embark keeping carbs below 20g,protein 180 and eating in the region of 1550 cals (5 whole eggs,3 egg whites 150g chicken breast, 200g steak, 30g nuts ,olive oil and 2 x 40g protein shakes and a can of tuna . )
5 days should see me in ketosis ..
And the advantage of this - increased energy levels for training, and its simplicity in that i can scramble eggs if i want to cook or just chuck them in the shake raw and have done, can even pre cook the chicken and steak and spend no time in the kitchen or shops obsessing with food and how to dress up the reduced cals everyone else is eating because they miss what they have been eating that got them in a state in the first place ! I wont reduce protein and carb up to 400g until the 3 rd week and thereafter every week and the not feeling hungry is another bonus !0 -
What is keto ? Please explain. Thank you
Keto is Ketosis, it's a metabolic state in which your body is using fats for energy over glucose primarily. It's not magic like some people seem to think. Atkins is a form of keto diet, but it's not in depth enough to really work IMO. Akins works "for a while" because ketosis doesn't magically alter your metabolism to burn up your gut. Without tracking calories those people eventually eat themselves to maintenance, plateau, then get depressed.
Someone else mentioned keto isn't sustainable longterm, that's pretty wrong. I've been doing it for a few years in various forms (mostly SKD, but I'm doing CKD now).0 -
Your first post is NOT looking well.I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here. The Ketogenic Diet works for anyone with body fat. My BMI is less than 24 and I'm still doing it, after watching a girlfriend get amazing results needing only 10lbs to lose. Ketosis takes 3-5 days to achieve if you are eating a very restrictive caloric (500-600) and carb (10 net g) diet with electrolyte water (16oz/day), a multivitamin, a great vitamin D, omega-3 fatty acid, and once you're in the cycle, a fat burner (all 3 once at breakfast and again at lunch). You can buy urine test strips to see when you're in ketosis and at what stage you are in. I did this diet under the supervision of a cardiologist and a nutritionist. It was well worth the $100 for the B-12 injections and the appetite suppressants. I do recommend getting an EKG before you start this diet, but it definitely works and the only side effect I've had is a slight amount of dizziness from the appetite suppressant. I'm down 8 pounds and this is my 10th day. The second week, since I had so little to lose, I start reintroducing carbs by an additional 10 net grams/week until I'm up to 100. I also do an intense boot camp 5 times a week, so my nutritional needs might vary from other's. you are not allowed to exercise for the first week, by the way. I mean, you can, but you'll feel sick the rest of the day.
First, you can get into ketosis is about 2 days if you do it right ... not 3 - 5 ... and yes, you'll lose weight - but initial weight-loss is water. Also, being in ketosis is NOT the same as being keto-adapted (where your metabolism burns fatty-acids primarily instead of glucose). Being fully keto-adapted can take up to 7 weeks, even more.
600 calories a day could actually be dangerous on a VLCKD (very-low-carb ketogenic diet) and should be medically supervised and just isn't recommended.
Again, without a metabolic NEED for a VLCKD (very low-carb ketogenic diet) such as diabetes, morbid obesity, metabolic syndrome, insulin-resistance from any of the former or other conditions such as PCOS or Hashimoto's thyroiditis, there is no need or advantage in using a low-carb ketogenic diet.
^^^^^Totally agree.^^^^ Dietary requirements are simply NOT one-size-fits-all. When you have serious medical issues like those mentioned above, it makes sense to use something like a ketogenic diet. But with only 20 pounds to lose, I would simply cut out added sugar (which will do a LOT to help curb appetite) and refined carbohydrates, and then gradually burn off the flab.0 -
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