Sorry I have to vent...
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If you don't put it into preventing bad health, you'll pay for it in dr. visits, medicine and things that could have been prevented. I also don't understand how someone can be into healthy eating and exercise and then drink liquor all that time.... counterintuitive at the least.0
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GetSoda is right. Exception would be medical reasons.0
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Why isn't it covered? Becuase we're actually governed by dirty money from pharmaceutical. That's why. If we were healthy think of all the money they woulnd't make on meds to "fix" the issues.
As you are grateful to chiropractors, I am grateful to pharmacuticals.
They saved my life.
Both ends of that argument can be valid.0 -
I agree with the intent of the post...and agree that people should invest more in their health and being. That said, I don't think having a nutritionist or a massage therapist or gym membership or a personal trainer, etc, etc are necessary to that investment. Those things are completely unnecessary to your health and well being...they are nice, but you have to have the disposable income. If people would just take more initiative to research proper nutrition, fitness, etc...that would go a long way in "investing" in their health and well being.
I cannot walk or bike to work because I have three offices in three different counties, two of which are rural and about 60 miles from my home...the other is about 20 miles from my home. Albuquerque is also the text book definition of urban sprawl and our public transportation system is pretty much non-existent. therefore, I need a car...that usually results in car payments for most people. I need to put gas in that car...I need to take the car to a mechanic when it breaks because transmission repair is far more complicated than putting together a fitness routine.
Like I said, I agree with the overall intent of the OP's post, but it is pretty difficult to make any meaningful comparison of necessary expenditures to extra curricular expenditures.0 -
I'm pretty lucky... I live in Canada and my healthcare is paid for, over and above that the company I work for gives me additional benefits to cover Chiropractor, Optometrist, Physio, Acupucture, Prescription drugs and full dental coverage, they give me an additional $1500 toward Health/Life spending, this covers fitness equipment, Sports equipment, Club memberships, or Personal Trainer, Gym memberships etc. So in some cases there are people/businesses that have put a value on our fitness and health. More places should get on board with this philosophy.
Dang... we need to move to Canada!0 -
I guess the OP owns a gym?0
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Looking at things from a logical point of view, in the long run; nutritionists, physical therapists, massage therapists, chiropractors and personal trainers should be seen as MORE of a necessary expense than some of the things society deems "necessary". Seem to me we, as a society, have our priorities screwed up.
I'd agree, except that none of those things are necessary for health or fitness for most people.0 -
Gotta have a car to get to work. Don't need a six pack to get to work.0
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Why isn't it covered? Becuase we're actually governed by dirty money from pharmaceutical. That's why. If we were healthy think of all the money they woulnd't make on meds to "fix" the issues.
As you are grateful to chiropractors, I am grateful to pharmacuticals.
They saved my life.
Both ends of that argument can be valid.
I'm also grateful for pharmaceuticals. I'm unhealthy no matter what I do, arthritis, fibro, degenerative hip (had surgery in Jan, not an injury, just bad hip) cyst in my brain, hole in my heart and massive allergies with inflammatory asthma and COPD. I live on freaking pills and inhalers. I'm not saying we don't NEED them, I'm saying that the reason preventative care isn't covered is because the government would lose money0 -
I agree to some extent.
Now, I don't have a personal trainer or a nutritionist nor do I think you need them to be successful in your fitness goals. I think if you put time and energy (and common sense) in to exercise and food you can be healthy (or at least healthier then you were). What annoys me is not so much that people won't spend money on it, it's that they won't put effort into it. Time and energy are free.
I think people should spend their money (and some time) on healthier foods and maybe some supplements like protien supplements and vitamins. (I can't believe some people think of healthy food as an additional expense! It saddens me.) All though if they have extra money to spend... fitness equipment, gym memberships, fitness classes, trainers, and nutritionist are great assets but these are fitness conveninces not necessities.
Now I see a naturopath. It usaully costs me a bit of money, but I can afford it, I have some benefits through my work for it, and I would rather see a naturopath then a doctor. I believe that this is a luxery that everyone should have. IMO more health care plans (including government ran ones) should cover this so that people can choose what type of "health" advice they want.
I think Physio therapists, massage therapists, and chiropracters are execellent healthcare aids but they are simply a luxery that most can not afford. And although I see both a massage therapist and chiropracter myself, and I see merit in their treatments, I do believe one can be "healthy" without them.
I just wanted to add to this ^^ that if I lacked in money/benefits. I too would drive before investing in these professionals. I do understand your point and I agree that people need to invest more in their health - period. However the investment is time, comittment, and effort not so much financial as suggested in your original post.0 -
If one is having problems, yes, indeed, one should see the doc ASAP so a small problem doesn't turn into a big problem...or if it is a big problem, to get the jump on it early. A lot of people do put off coming to the doctor because of the copay or the cost. A lot of people who pay for prescriptions out of pocket will skip doses to save the money. And too, there are people who are totally in denial about their health problems (many people in their 40s, when problems really start to crop up, will put off seeing a physician for too long).
There are some people who go TOO often, though.
Health should come first, then everything else, because everything else will suffer if your health goes.
I've been there, putting off my own care because someone or something seemed more important than my health, and that's really not a good attitude to have.0 -
While the OP was clearly *not* talking about "state run health centers" or "nutjob socialist" type stuff, the rest of this very interesting thread got me thinking. Because of the way our tax systems (federal, state, and local) are set up, aren't we all kind of subsidizing each other anyway? It's kind of roundabout, but think about it....
New Wal-Mart opens up, receives tax abatements from the city
New Boeing plant opens up (say, for example, in South Carolina), receives tax package from the state
New gym opens up, deducts a raft of things when it files its taxes
New company offers gym memberships, receives tax incentives from the feds for doing so
I buy a house, I receive a sweet mortgage deduction from the feds (paid for by the rest of you)
You buy a house, you receive a sweet mortgage deduction from the feds (paid for the rest of us)
Lather, rinse, repeat.....
Yes, this is grossly oversimplified. However, it's a fun thought activity for this very slow afternoon at work. :-)0 -
I'm pretty lucky... I live in Canada and my healthcare is paid for, over and above that the company I work for gives me additional benefits to cover Chiropractor, Optometrist, Physio, Acupucture, Prescription drugs and full dental coverage, they give me an additional $1500 toward Health/Life spending, this covers fitness equipment, Sports equipment, Club memberships, or Personal Trainer, Gym memberships etc. So in some cases there are people/businesses that have put a value on our fitness and health. More places should get on board with this philosophy.
You won't feel so lucky when you need some diagnostics tests if you get cancer and it takes nine months to get them.
Nine months? Try two years here on the east coast.0 -
pretty soon we will have government mandated "state" uniforms to wear, maybe even have our tounges cut out if we talk negative about our government... this mandated health care, forcing americans to purchase a product is just one more reason to fear the idea of a socialist society. pretty soon we will live like north korea, and have absolutely no control over our own lives. taxing us into not drinking soda? really? how about, i dont murder, i dont steal, and i follow the laws of the land, and thats it... freedom? what freedom? its slowly being taken from me... i buy health insurance because i want health insurance... that should be my choice...
and i will graciously bow out of this now, because all it does it get me upset...
i'm sorry, just lol.
Haha... Yeah, that totally came out of left wing...errr Or right wing I mean : P
Anyhow, we can all interpret what we think the OP said. I wonder the same things as well and I took it as why do people feel the need to be in DEBT, or live pay check to pay check, mainly based on their poor choices.
I do not believe a car payment is necessary. You can find a car and pay cash for it. YES, you can find a reliable car for 2-3k. In tern, your car insurance will decrease.
My list of other unnecessary items:
Cable/satellite
Smart phones. You can get a regular cell phone and opt out of internet charges.
Getting your nails done weekly
Getting your hair done monthly
Tanning bed
Eating out-and if you choose to eat out you don't have to get alcohol/soda
Mortgage/rent payments that eat up your paycheck, in turn your normally have a larger utility bill. Get a smaller house, or a house in a different location.
Children in every sport/extra curricular activity *gasp! Yes, that stuff costs loads of money!
Now I'm not saying I'm not guilty of any of the above, but I will say that we do what we can comfortably afford. I just hate seeing people with a brand new SUV, house in an ideal location, multiple big screen TV's, kids with smart phones, etc...*(you get the point) complain about making ends meet. Are you kidding me?0 -
I hope you feel better but just a couple of thoughts...
If you don't live in a metro area with mass transit you'll need a car to get to work (a la a car payment). I don't mind sleeping outdoors on occasion but December's a little chilly without a roof or central heat (a la a mortgage payment). I also have the other sundry bills, electric, internet, cell phone, etc. All of these things cost money.
Here's a shocker, I also don't pay for a gym membership. I have some videos, some weights a couple of cardio machines in the basement of my house.
The thing that amazed me about your little rant was your determination that personal trainers, nutritionists and chiropractors are "necessary" to be healthy. I've never interacted with any of the three and seem to be doing pretty well without them. To suggest that they are "professionals" calls some serious training and education into question. With the exception of perhaps a chiropractor, none of those requires anything beyond a Master's degree and oops, I paid for one of those too.
Hope you didn't injure anything stepping down from your high horse.0 -
I don't have the money to fork around for the extra stuff that can help me be healthy, I use knowledge, equipment accessible by me, time that I can find to set aside and the will power to push forward.
Not all nutritionalists actually know what nutrition you are going to require or that you do require, they are not registered dieticians that do a lot of schooling and are better suited to the needs. A chiropracter and Sports Medicine Therapist (Physiotherapist) are not necessary until you have an injury and can only provide information that can be found for free online on how to prevent injuries.
I don't have a car and I definitely ensure that my basic needs for my daughter and myself are met. Daycare is a big cost but I cannot go to work if I do not bring my daughter there, food is another huge cost, eating healthy is expensive and eating for activity is also added expense.
It's all about needs and ability to do so, not "why are these people spending on these non-crucial things when they could be spending it one these 'crucial' ones"0 -
I'm pretty lucky... I live in Canada and my healthcare is paid for, over and above that the company I work for gives me additional benefits to cover Chiropractor, Optometrist, Physio, Acupucture, Prescription drugs and full dental coverage, they give me an additional $1500 toward Health/Life spending, this covers fitness equipment, Sports equipment, Club memberships, or Personal Trainer, Gym memberships etc. So in some cases there are people/businesses that have put a value on our fitness and health. More places should get on board with this philosophy.
You won't feel so lucky when you need some diagnostics tests if you get cancer and it takes nine months to get them.
I live in the United States and when I had cancer and needed surgery it was postponed repeatedly for months because of difficulties dealing with my health insurance company.
And I was one of the lucky ones with health insurance. It's hardly some medical utopia here.0 -
So how many of us would use the Doctor as often as we do if health insurance didn't exist? People use them on a regular basis because they are covered on a health insurance program....What ever happened to walking or riding a bike (for most of us) Better on your health and saving the environment!
I have great health insurance and hardly ever go to the doctor, but that's because it's a huge pain in the *kitten* to take time off from my job to go. If I go to the dr. it's because I'm near death. Same for my kids.0 -
I botha gree and disagree. I can see various sides to this. I see where OP is coming from, and I see why so many people are getting their panties in a twist.
I recently decided to put my health in front of having a lot of discretionary money for "fun" stuff personally. I spend more money on food so I can go get organic and GMO free foods from a local market as opposed to shopping at a Walmart Supercenter. I bought a gym membership, and workout at home as well.
What people spend their money on in regards to their health is their choice. But in America we as a population generally spend the least amount possible on food, which is the root of all evil when it comes to making or breaking our health. Thsi in turn will determine how much money and time we spend in the doctor's office with various diseases and ailments. Some people ahve more disposable income to drastically change how they eat and exercise to be healthy. Some have to go about it in a slower more managable way and ramp up as they can cut other things out.
For me, not having as much money to go eat out at restaurants or see movies a few times a week is fine because the tradeoff I get is the adrenaline high I get after lifting weights at the gym and feeling better in my clothes, and my insides feeling good from fueling it with nutritious foods.
We are all here for the same eason. I don't see the point in so many people getting mad over a forum post. I'm seeing it more and more frequently in the forums on this site...
I appreciate your response, and overall, appreciate your last point. I warned people. So if you are overly sensitive on the subject, just keep your fingers off the keyboard :happy:
lol and warn you sure did!0 -
Well, considering that I work out of town and wouldn't be able to get to my job to make money to pay the bills and buy food without having a running car full of gas...yes, my car is more important to me. lol
Anyway, I get your point and it's a good one...but....fitness can be free...or at least cheap. I have never gone to a gym/paid for a gym membership, nutritionist, personal trainer, etc and I don't have a problem. I do a lot of my own research, I try to focus on finding healthy recipes, I bought a relatively cheap set of hand weights and I buy cheap workout DVDs/borrow from friends and use Youtube. I don't need to invest monthly payments to my health like I have to for my car and every other bill I have. However, forking out the extra money for a fancy set of weights or a treadmill or whatever is an extra, luxury expense to me. I would LOVE a treadmill to be able to jog year round (I'm not a fan of jogging in -30 degree C weather...) but I just can't afford that and it's not going to be a priority over putting gas in my car.
But the general idea from this post is a valid one I think, for the most part.0 -
can of worms: OPENED0
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I do agree with you, however, on the other hand, I have 2 kids, I have a mortgage, I have a car payment and monthly bills.... at the end of the month, there isn't a lot left for me to pay for a personal trainer.
Exactly. I pay for the stuff I HAVE to pay for first. And then savings. And health insurance.
A personal trainer is not a necessity.0 -
Well, that escalated quickly....0
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Well, that escalated quickly....
This is really quite mild for MFP spats.0 -
I generally agree. One big distinction of course is that many people need a car to commute to earn a living. Taking care of one's health and exercising are considered as extras because our culture treats them as extras. Not so in countries that have socialized medicine and where everyone has health care.0
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I totally agree!0
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If you don't live in a metro area with mass transit you'll need a car to get to work (a la a car payment)
Not necessarily. I have never had a car payment in my life. I buy "new to me" cars that I can afford, pay $200 a year for AAA and have a great mechanic. Unless you are driving a hundred miles a day there is absolutely no need to get the latest and greatest $50,000 car on the market, unless you're doing so because you feel you need that "status symbol". I don't. I have a 2000 Jeep Cherokee with 226,000 miles on it and I can't wait to get another 226,000 miles. If I can't and the jeep craps the bed I'll go out and find myself another used car that I can afford and pay cash for.
OP: I get what you were saying with your post and while there are a lot of people out there who after paying all their bills don't have the money to drop for a gym membership there are free videos that you can get on demand. DVD's don't cost a lot and neither does some of the equipment that you can get at a regular store. Running is pretty cheap AND no equipment necessary. I think it's just another excuse not to do what's right for you. IMO I'd rather drive my old jeep and buy things I can afford so that I can spend a little extra on a gym membership rather than hundreds of thousands of dollars on hospital bills.0
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