Obesity and poverty...
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I have a friend who is on all kinds of assistance. She gets WAY more money from the government for food each month than I spend. All she buys are prepared foods. Frozen pizzas, burritos, corn dogs, chips, TV dinners, etc. These things cost a ton and are terrible for you but she gets plenty of assistance money to pay for them. I spend less than half of what she spends. I'm buying ingredients to make meals, not pre-made meals. I think, sometimes, people who are "poor" take the easy way out.
Hubby, on the other hand, grew up really poor. But his mom grew a garden every year, bottled whatever they didn't eat fresh, his dad hunted, they ate the "old fashioned" way. More families need to be doing this rather than relying on the government to give them money for food. Just my opinion.
My grandparents were somewhat like your husbands parents. They used every scrap of what they had, and saved the pot scrapings to flavor the next meal an the empty butter wrapper to grease the pans. And for heaven's sake, you did not EVER get up from the table without having cleaned your plate of every crumb of food.0 -
As someone who actually came from a poverty-stricken background, allow me to shed a little light on a lot of people's situation. I'm not going to give my opinion on the topic itself, just some information for other people to consider before they do. If you haven't been horribly poor you really do not have any idea of how to guess what you'd do in the situation.
Um, there are some good points here but also some nonsense.
I see no points of nonsense in the first posters argument. In fact, it's very articulate and an empathetic mind could really see the struggle of those who cant afford "healthy food.
The issue of poverty and obesity will only be solved with radical education and changing the whole institution of food distribution and marketing.
In fact, by taking an empathetic approach sometimes one can get more done and change the mindset of another. It's easier to educate when you understand that the reason "Maria" is only feeding fries and chicken nuggets to her kids is because she works there and gets to take the left over home the next step is finding out where we can make other changes and sometimes it literally takes a whole village so "Maria" can get fresh fruit on her table.
Empathy is one thing. Blame and a lack of personal responsibility is another.
Thinking radical change to food industry is the only thing that can solve the poverty / obesity problem is a big part of the problem. It's so easy to point the finger at big brother or big business.
Where would mom work that fries and chicken nuggets were her only options? Is she required to feed Maria so many of these fries and nuggets that Maria becomes obese? Whom are you trying to educate and what are you trying to teach them?
My last analogy wasnt very good. I was making the point that I've worked with clients before and they fed their children "junk" because they worked at a well known fast food establishment and when that establishment shut down for the night left overs went home with the employees. This client made minimum wage. Her rent alone consumed 33% of her earnings. The nearest grocery store had outrageously priced produce that was also terrible quality. Because this was a rural town the store could charge exorbitant amounts for things like a can of beans $2.50. A 15oz can! Children were all obese, and family was there to get healthy. It took a lot of work and support from the community to get them to have access to produce. I dont think changing access to food is a part of the problem. I think it's part of the solution.
This Mom was not irresponsible she was doing her damn best with what she knew how and the love she had for her babies was paramount.0 -
Just gotta say, I've seen real poverty overseas. They don't get government help or food stamps. You rarely find obese people in poverty outside of the US.
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An interesting side note is that the UN NGO sends peanut based foods to the poorest nations and there's no peanut allergies either0 -
Just gotta say, I've seen real poverty overseas. They don't get government help or food stamps. You rarely find obese people in poverty outside of the US.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
No you dont see much obesity, but according to the WHO there is a rising obesity paradox especially in poor Carribean and Latin American countries.0 -
Tagging this for later reading..0
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I agree it's not that simple. They also have to take birth control pills for it to work.
Which are now free, thanks to the health care overhaul. I'm betting state funded abortions aren't far behind. Not that I have a huge problem with abortion, I can see their argument, but it's inescapably cruel to use that as an all too often used "Plan C".0 -
I once saw two pictures that demonstrated what 1500 calories can look like. One picture was just a hamburger, fries, and a coke. The other picture was filled with nuts, lean meat, low fat cheese, whole grains, fruit, and veggies. I know this picture was designed to show how you get to eat more when you eat healthy, but let's look at the cost of these things.
You can spend about $3 for 1500 calories at a fast food chain.
OR
You can buy groceries so you have 1500 calories of healthy stuff, so let's figure out how much that would cost you.... I eat 1500 calories a day of healthy stuff and spend about $150 a week for two people. That equals to about $10 a day, or $10 for 1500 calories. That is three times the cost of fast food, when divided by calories.
Sure if you eat fast food three meals a day, then you eat more calories and spend about the same that I do. BUT, do poor families really eat fast food three meals out of the day? Probably not.... they buy other low cost per calorie junk in the grocery store, their kids get free lunches, and they might get non perishables (aka processed crap) from a food bank.
Yes, I do think poverty and obesity are related.0 -
As a former home health RN in rural north Florida, in MHO, it is about access to healthy foods. The only store they can get to is the jiffy mart in which their selection is hot dogs, boiled peanuts, little debbie cakes and chips. When someone is able to bring them fresh fruits and vegetables they are grateful....many of the impoverished rely solely upon others to bring them food ... much of which is quick, easy, sodium and sugar laden, etc. A trip to town to purchase groceries would, in fact, eradicate their grocery budget and/or the ability to purchase medications. Many of these people do not even have stoves or ovens or refrigerators ... so if they were to purchase perishables, how would they store them? It is a tragedy that we do so little to fight real hunger and real poverty in our own country. I will end my reply before it turns into a rant....
Edited for grammar ...0 -
Maybe neither bad genes nor Big Macs are the right place to the cause of the obesity epidemic. What about changes in the American economy? When the obesity shot up so did the levels of economic hardship and insecurity.
Who suffered? The same sectors of the population who gained the most weight: low income Americans and ethnic minorities.
Chronic stress, maybe?
Law of unintended consequences?0 -
So true!0
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Anyone who thinks the connection between obesity and poverty can be explained away with a couple of obtuse statements shouldn't be harping on about anyone else's lack of intelligence or education. Life in poverty is a miserable life. When you are miserable, you often make poor choices to try to feel better in the moment. When you live in poverty, life becomes a series of those moments. Few people take into account the fact that there is a strong link between poverty and depression, especially in affluent countries where poverty isn't the norm. Blanket statements about the cost of healthy food and lack of education only touch on part of the reality.
Yes!
And, does anyone else see the irony of people who are joined together on a weight loss site concluding that people who are overweight are lazy?
Something else which I think joins people who are struggling with their weight from all ends of the economic spectrum: Damn, it feels good to feel superior to someone...and that smug "Oh, you just have to make better choices" superiority is something which I think all of us have experienced.
Overweight people and poor people...two groups to which everyone can feel morally superior...
So true!0 -
I haven't read through the comments, but another reason for this are "food deserts." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
Also, think about the things you donate to food drives. These are the things many people in poverty are eating. Food banks rarely have very healthy choices. You can't maintain a healthy diet eating ramen and spam.0 -
Do people in cities (can't speak for rural areas) really not have access to produce? Where are the stores? How far can a proper supermarket be in the city that people can't get to it by walking or transit? I remember making 20 minute walking trips with my dad in the middle of winter to get to the supermarket (and then back), surely others can too. We weren't well off and yet none of us were fat. I think ppl just do t bother to learn how to cook anymore and it's so much easier to grab some chips.0
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I know I will probably get bashed for this but here goes..........MY father grew up dirt poor as one of 8 children. He was not and is not obese and neither were his parents and siblings. They did have a garden that helped supplement their diet etc and they ate beans for the majority of their meals. So, that being said, people can find a way to eat without being obese if they try.
I KNOW IT"S NOT THAT SIMPLE. But...............0 -
Well, there would have to be a heck of a lot more psych wards bc it's called food advocacy. Have you ever seen factory farming? Have you ever wondered why substances that are banned in other countries (potassium bromate, GMO's, phalphates etc) are allowed into our food supply. Go ahead and keep those blinders on sista'. My kiddos aren't eating that crap bc I prefer for them not to have cancer. I actually feel sorry for you.
This really has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Are you the topic police? We are talking about "healthy" foods and the state of our food supply. Seems relevant to me???0 -
how has this thread blown up so much? it's incredibly obvious that in America, the poorer and less educated a population, the more obese they tend to be.
just compare maps of obesity rates, poverty rates, education rates. they're all going to be identical.
and because of government subsidies, less nutritious food is cheaper to produce, and thus cheaper to buy and thus, poor people get fat.
it's common sense.0 -
I agree with you I came from a single parent home and I was the only child. My mother didn't have much money so we ate crap but also she didn't know how to cook healthy meals. If you gave me any of those things you mentioned I wouldn't have a clue what to do with them even now. I am trying to educate myself and buy fruit for example when it is on sale and I freeze it. Education and health promotion are two key things needed in our societies. I live in Canada and where I live everything is expensive most of the time I can't afford to buy meat at all for weeks or I can afford to buy fresh vegetables but only enough for a week then I have to wait a week or two before I get money again. When that happens what do you think is available in my kitchen to eat? Cheap no name high sodium soups, macaroni and cheese (no name) made with water if I'm out of milk, or bread. To buy a loaf of bread for a dollar you have two choices white or whole wheat then there is always peanut butter once again high in salt and sugar. My point is knowing how to cook means being able to buy low discounted vegetables and meat (if your lucky) learn to make things that can be frozen. I also go to food banks for help because some times the stress of trying to make it to feed my son and I is too great there we are given choses of high sodium soup, peanut butter, bread some almost spoiled fruits and vegetables and other misc items. My son and I only have the necessities a roof over our heads, internet for education and entertainment and a phone no cable, no car and at times I want to cut the internet and phones but in this society a phone is a necesary for communication between my son, his school and for emergencies. Lack of transportation means my son needs the internet for school and I am now using it to educate myself as well. I don't work because I am disabled. We don't have a yard so gardening isn't an option. Its easy to sit in judgement of the poor today for many people who can afford to eat healthy and have the education to do so to those people out there I say walk a mile in my shoes before you sit in judgement of me!0
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Just gotta say, I've seen real poverty overseas. They don't get government help or food stamps. You rarely find obese people in poverty outside of the US.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
An interesting side note is that the UN NGO sends peanut based foods to the poorest nations and there's no peanut allergies either
Or the people with allergies ate the peanuts and died.0 -
This entire thread is a microcosm of whats wrong with the U.S. You have a bunch of people who have never had to want for anything in their lives trying to debate why poor people are fat. Listen to the people who have posted in this thread who ACTUALLY GREW UP POOR, we aren't making excuses because we know what its like. It is a choice. This is just another example of people who don't know what they are talking about enabling people who make poor decisions. I know, I lived it. Someone posted earlier that this thread made them feel sorry for humanity. Yeah, me too. People have to be responsible for their own actions. Stop making excuses for them.0
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I agree it's not that simple. They also have to take birth control pills for it to work.
Which are now free, thanks to the health care overhaul. I'm betting state funded abortions aren't far behind. Not that I have a huge problem with abortion, I can see their argument, but it's inescapably cruel to use that as an all too often used "Plan C".
Vote me for president and I will END ALL welfare (except food stamps) and use that money to increase unemployment payments, increase food stamps but add restrictions tied to length of use and number of kids to encourage less breeding, offer free birth control and free abortions. It's true the costs will outweigh the welfare savings for a bit, but the changes would inevitably decrease the population, decrease the burden on our education system allowing for better educations to be given AND decrease the weight on our medical system and food supply which would creative amazing savings down the road.0 -
While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.
Out in the country, they don't have farmer's markets and bulk stores. :frown: Where I grew up in Alabama, you had to drive about 30 mins. to get to the one tiny grocery store in the nearest town, and I didn't even know what a farmer's market was until I moved to a big city.
That's irony isn't it?
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This entire thread is a microcosm of whats wrong with the U.S. You have a bunch of people who have never had to want for anything in their lives trying to debate why poor people are fat. Listen to the people who have posted in this thread who ACTUALLY GREW UP POOR, we aren't making excuses because we know what its like. It is a choice. This is just another example of people who don't know what they are talking about enabling people who make poor decisions. I know, I lived it. Someone posted earlier that this thread made them feel sorry for humanity. Yeah, me too. People have to be responsible for their own actions. Stop making excuses for them.
I love how you KNOW who and who hasn't had to want for anything in their lives based on their decision to advertise it in their post. You're making assumptions that are incorrect. Even if they haven't ever had to, it doesn't mean they don't have friends or family or some type of experience with people in that situation that has given them knowledge on it. Which really doesn't matter because people are free to discuss whatever it is they so choose. I have opinions on space travel, but I've never been an astronaut. Am I therefore not allowed to voice said opinion?0 -
I know I will probably get bashed for this but here goes..........MY father grew up dirt poor as one of 8 children. He was not and is not obese and neither were his parents and siblings. They did have a garden that helped supplement their diet etc and they ate beans for the majority of their meals. So, that being said, people can find a way to eat without being obese if they try.
I KNOW IT"S NOT THAT SIMPLE. But...............
Sometimes its fear that keeps people from trying. Someone dear in my life is morbid obese and her family are comfortable. She was thin as a kid but something must have changed growing up and its not that she doesn't come from a loving family. My cousin and I both tried to help her, but her response was 'but I like to eat this or I don't want to' so me being much more draconian than my cousin, gave up and I said, come back when you want to because I don't speak whine. Her mom paid for an expensive martial arts center because she said she likes it, but then she doesn't go. Its quite tragic really. Rich or poor is not an excuse, excuses are excuses.0 -
It is part of the problem. I am poor and easily paid for and ate food that was cheap and only marginally healthy. I didn't even eat out that much. Maybe twice a month. But Rice-a-Roni is $10 for ten boxes. It was easy just to thaw out a chicken breast and frozen veggies and cook all that as a skillet casserole. Then was made aware of how much sodium was in the stuff and realized what I was doing to my body. Cheap food has a ton of sodium. Which is probably why heart disease is so prevalent.
I can't have a garden, I live in the inner city. I am lucky enough to have a Mom n Pop open air food market down the street I can shop from whenever I want. But the more specialized your diet, the more you have to pay. The more time you have to spend figuring out what to eat or buy.
Someone called it. If you haven't been there, you don't understand and shouldn't judge. If you want to change things, start writing your congress critters and demanding stricter standards. Instead of insulting poverty stricken people trying to get by.0 -
SS is based on household income and number of immediate family members.0
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While i agree with you to an extent i'll also argue that yes you can feed a family of 4 for less than $200 a week. My Weekly grocery budget is 1/2 of that! I buy in bulk and also shop seasonal fruits and veggies. I also shop at farmers markets and a little amish shop that is in my neighborhood. Its not just what they are eating, but the quantity.
Out in the country, they don't have farmer's markets and bulk stores. :frown: Where I grew up in Alabama, you had to drive about 30 mins. to get to the one tiny grocery store in the nearest town, and I didn't even know what a farmer's market was until I moved to a big city.
That's irony isn't it?
When I lived in a small town, I didn't go to the farmer's market because I went to the farmer. Unpasteurized milk, day old eggs and fresh meat. Loved it!0 -
If you're the sole breadwinner in a single-parent house dealing with poverty, and work 17 hours a day in order to provide for your family, is it still "laziness" to buy less healthy foods that don't take 15 minutes and more to prepare, rather than the potatoes and hamburgers (sorely lacking in any vegetables or fruits, incidentally) suggested here?If you spent $3 on a cheeseburger, fries and a coke at McDonald's you have gotten yourself a kid's meal which would have more calories, less nutrition than one of there $6 salads. I think what it boils down to is laziness. Yes it is easier to swing through a drive through, but if you buy a pound of hamburger meat ($3.50), some buns (usually can find on sale for $1 for 8), a sack of potatoes ($3) you can cook all of it yourself and have left over food for what it would cost to feed a family of four at McDonald's.0 -
I'm sure when your father was young life and society was very different than it is today comparing the two really is putting blinders on to what it is really like for obese people to loose weight. I don't mean any disrespect towards you because you are of course entitlled to your opinion but ignorance is bliss and making a statement like that just shows how it is easy for those like yourself to judge others when every situation is different. I personally don't know if I can loose weight in my situation but I am taking steps to try but many people who are just trying to survive like me aren't worried about their weight as much as they are worried about providing a roof over their family's heads and food to eat period. There are many factors that contribute to obesity and its not just the food people eat.0
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its a combination of ignorance of proper nutrition, poverty, and local economy. some people may even lack electricity and running water necessary to prepare healthy nourishing meals. I think it really depends on the situation.0
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If you're the sole breadwinner in a single-parent house dealing with poverty, and work 17 hours a day in order to provide for your family, is it still "laziness" to buy less healthy foods that don't take 15 minutes and more to prepare, rather than the potatoes and hamburgers (sorely lacking in any vegetables or fruits, incidentally) suggested here?If you spent $3 on a cheeseburger, fries and a coke at McDonald's you have gotten yourself a kid's meal which would have more calories, less nutrition than one of there $6 salads. I think what it boils down to is laziness. Yes it is easier to swing through a drive through, but if you buy a pound of hamburger meat ($3.50), some buns (usually can find on sale for $1 for 8), a sack of potatoes ($3) you can cook all of it yourself and have left over food for what it would cost to feed a family of four at McDonald's.
Hell at one point when I lived with my ex on his father's land I didn't have running water or electricity in order to cook unless his father felt generous enough to turn the power on. Is it still "laziness" to go to McDonalds in order to eat cooked food in a comfortable place? FYI I still lost tons of weight while eating McDonalds every 2-3 day when I could scrounge up enough money to eat.0
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