Experienced Marathon/Half Marathoners Input needed

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rybo
rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Ok here’s the deal. I sat out running my city’s race this year, opting to volunteer. It was an awesome experience and now I’m anxious to run again next year. I’ve done 2 full marathons and a few halfs. I said I was done running full’s, but am considering one more since I turn 40 next year. My half PR coming during training for a full. I keep in relatively decent year round shape, and completing a half isn’t that big a deal so if I run the half I will race it hard in order to try and PR. (1:39) If I run the full I will just put in the miles and run a pace that should give me a decent finish that may or may not be a PR (3:56) and I don’t care. My question comes in the training plan. It seems to me like training hard for a half would take my mileage almost to the point that would allow me to run a full marathon with just a little bit longer runs here & there? So if I am going to put in that kind of time, I feel like I should just run the full one last time and call it a career. Looking at the plans side by side, I’d average only 6-7 miles less per week doing the half program compared to the full which equates to about 1 extra hour a week.
Opinions?

Replies

  • sakamanojr
    sakamanojr Posts: 378 Member
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    Hello there,
    I have run 8 Half's and 4 Full's. Am currently in training for a Half and my 2 cents is that there is a HUGE difference in training and running a Full. Now that is my experience. If you found when you previously trained and ran the Full that is was not a huge stretch then I would go for it. If you did find that it took a lot of extra time and strength then you may be in for a rough experience.
    Good luck either way
    Saka
  • BenKnowsFitness
    BenKnowsFitness Posts: 451 Member
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    Too busy at work to study your post but I think I get what you are asking. I run 20 miles a week. Just did a Full one month ago. Felt great at the half way mark, near dead at the finish line.
  • therealangd
    therealangd Posts: 1,861 Member
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    So, what you are saying is that the training required to PR your half marathon would be about an hour in the difference to a maintenance or moderate full training program on a weekly basis?

    To me the difference between training for a full and training for a half are the long runs. Your easy runs and your speedwork / tempo runs will pretty much be the same. (Once you get up to that calibre of endurance, you're just working on pace at that point)

    I don't know. It seems to me that only you can answer the question. If you are not interested in running any more fulls then don't bother.
  • supertracylynn
    supertracylynn Posts: 1,338 Member
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    You know I follow the Higdon training methods. I've not done a full yet, but am working up to one next year (maybe).

    Here are the Nov2 training plans, which I prefer because of the easy progression,.
    Half:
    http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51312/Half-Marathon-Novice-2-Training-Program
    Full:
    http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51138/Marathon-Novice-2-Training-Program

    It doesn't seem like such a big deal when looking at these particular plans. What ever y decide to do, I know you'll do well!
  • vmclach
    vmclach Posts: 670 Member
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    are looking at doing a Late July half and a October Full? or what?! I feel like you should do the half first! I have a half in 7 weeks and my speed is GONE.
  • arc918
    arc918 Posts: 2,037 Member
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    My $.02 - good half marathon training is fairly similar to "half *kitten*" marathon training.

    As an experienced runner, for a half I probably wouldn't go past 16 miles my long run. 11 or 12 for max long run is fine for newbies, but if you want to really race and perform out there, I think long run should be longer.

    Now if you are training nicely with your long run and 15-16 most every week, then you are in position to ramp up to a full in 8 or 10 weeks. My last piece of reality based advice, if you want to run once last full, then really put in the time and learn to run even splits on race day.

    FWIW - I find racing a good half to be very satisfying. My favorite distance to race for sure.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    My $.02 - good half marathon training is fairly similar to "half *kitten*" marathon training.

    As an experienced runner, for a half I probably wouldn't go past 16 miles my long run. 11 or 12 for max long run is fine for newbies, but if you want to really race and perform out there, I think long run should be longer.

    Now if you are training nicely with your long run and 15-16 most every week, then you are in position to ramp up to a full in 8 or 10 weeks. My last piece of reality based advice, if you want to run once last full, then really put in the time and learn to run even splits on race day.

    I mostly agree with Jon here. In order for me to race a really good HM, I need to put in 60+ miles per week and maybe even push it to 70 for a couple weeks. I don't think that is half assed marathon training, but it's not what's required to race a marathon. It falls somewhere in between the two. 65 miles per week will give you a really good HM and will probably get you a decent marathon finishing ASSUMING you have been running good mileage for a couple years prior.

    So, if you hovering in that 40 mile per week range, ramping it up to 60 to 70 for marathon training should be doable. I say go for it. :)
  • BenKnowsFitness
    BenKnowsFitness Posts: 451 Member
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    Uhh, are you guys talking about the humans or cyborgs? 60 Miles week? I don't drive that far to work.:bigsmile:
    My $.02 - good half marathon training is fairly similar to "half *kitten*" marathon training.

    As an experienced runner, for a half I probably wouldn't go past 16 miles my long run. 11 or 12 for max long run is fine for newbies, but if you want to really race and perform out there, I think long run should be longer.

    Now if you are training nicely with your long run and 15-16 most every week, then you are in position to ramp up to a full in 8 or 10 weeks. My last piece of reality based advice, if you want to run once last full, then really put in the time and learn to run even splits on race day.

    I mostly agree with Jon here. In order for me to race a really good HM, I need to put in 60+ miles per week and maybe even push it to 70 for a couple weeks. I don't think that is half assed marathon training, but it's not what's required to race a marathon. It falls somewhere in between the two. 65 miles per week will give you a really good HM and will probably get you a decent marathon finishing ASSUMING you have been running good mileage for a couple years prior.

    So, if you hovering in that 40 mile per week range, ramping it up to 60 to 70 for marathon training should be doable. I say go for it. :)
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
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    Uhh, are you guys talking about the humans or cyborgs? 60 Miles week? I don't drive that far to work.:bigsmile:
    It just depends on your priorities, but most people can do far more than they believe they can. I have averaged 67 miles per week for the past year without injury not so much because I like running all the time but that I have a 6 year stretch goal in the marathon that I don't think I can reach without this amount of work.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    Uhh, are you guys talking about the humans or cyborgs? 60 Miles week? I don't drive that far to work.:bigsmile:
    It just depends on your priorities, but most people can do far more than they believe they can. I have averaged 67 miles per week for the past year without injury not so much because I like running all the time but that I have a 6 year stretch goal in the marathon that I don't think I can reach without this amount of work.

    What he said. :smile:
  • vmclach
    vmclach Posts: 670 Member
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    Uhh, are you guys talking about the humans or cyborgs? 60 Miles week? I don't drive that far to work.:bigsmile:
    It just depends on your priorities, but most people can do far more than they believe they can. I have averaged 67 miles per week for the past year without injury not so much because I like running all the time but that I have a 6 year stretch goal in the marathon that I don't think I can reach without this amount of work.

    What he said. :smile:

    It's about a 7 hour a week commitment to run 50 miles a week for me. What's really crazy is spending money to run a race. haha. I still don't know why I pay to do that to myself. I love it tho.
  • dsjohndrow
    dsjohndrow Posts: 1,821 Member
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    So, what you are saying is that the training required to PR your half marathon would be about an hour in the difference to a maintenance or moderate full training program on a weekly basis?

    To me the difference between training for a full and training for a half are the long runs. Your easy runs and your speedwork / tempo runs will pretty much be the same. (Once you get up to that calibre of endurance, you're just working on pace at that point)

    I don't know. It seems to me that only you can answer the question. If you are not interested in running any more fulls then don't bother.

    I like this. ^^^

    If you are not going to get a PR, or have fun, why bother doing the full. Just find a distance that you can enjoy. And BTW - you are young. I started running at 53. and now i am almost 55. There is a lot more running to be done, I hope you find a way to enjoy it.
  • BenKnowsFitness
    BenKnowsFitness Posts: 451 Member
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    You guys crack me up. Good luck with your goals. I run 22 miles per week ( about 4 hours) , cycle hills 3 hours per week, lift weights 2 hours per week, and once in a while take a random 1 hour fitness class at the gym. I just ran a full, it was hard for me but still doable.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    You guys crack me up. Good luck with your goals. I run 22 miles per week ( about 4 hours) , cycle hills 3 hours per week, lift weights 2 hours per week, and once in a while take a random 1 hour fitness class at the gym. I just ran a full, it was hard for me but still doable.

    9 to 10 hours per week, which is the same number of hours that I run during the peak of marathon training. It just depends upon your goals for the race, your overall fitness goals and how you balance the two. If you want to perform your best in marathon, you have to run a lot.
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,424 Member
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    My $.02 - good half marathon training is fairly similar to "half *kitten*" marathon training.

    As an experienced runner, for a half I probably wouldn't go past 16 miles my long run. 11 or 12 for max long run is fine for newbies, but if you want to really race and perform out there, I think long run should be longer.

    Now if you are training nicely with your long run and 15-16 most every week, then you are in position to ramp up to a full in 8 or 10 weeks. My last piece of reality based advice, if you want to run once last full, then really put in the time and learn to run even splits on race day.

    I mostly agree with Jon here. In order for me to race a really good HM, I need to put in 60+ miles per week and maybe even push it to 70 for a couple weeks. I don't think that is half assed marathon training, but it's not what's required to race a marathon. It falls somewhere in between the two. 65 miles per week will give you a really good HM and will probably get you a decent marathon finishing ASSUMING you have been running good mileage for a couple years prior.

    So, if you hovering in that 40 mile per week range, ramping it up to 60 to 70 for marathon training should be doable. I say go for it. :)

    The Important words in Jon's post are "half *kitten*". While yes I know I could, I have no desire to run over 50-55 mpw. When I looked at the adjustments I'd make from a full to half, it was mostly in the long runs. I still intend to got to 15 for the half several times. My full training would top out low 50's with a weekly average in the low 40's. Half topping at low 40s with an average of 35 mpw. At this point I am still undecided, but leaning half. I just can't shake that draw of the full and the crazy sense of accomplishment you get crossing the line after 26.2 miles.
  • TheLaser
    TheLaser Posts: 338 Member
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    If it's just about training --which from your "sense of accomplishment" comment it sounds like it isn't-- you could find a 20 mi race or a challenging 25 k trail race to get you revved up for breaking your 1/2 PR. I've done killer 12 mi trail races that took me 3 hours, and I was then probably a 3:40 marathoner. Just a thought.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    My $.02 - good half marathon training is fairly similar to "half *kitten*" marathon training.

    As an experienced runner, for a half I probably wouldn't go past 16 miles my long run. 11 or 12 for max long run is fine for newbies, but if you want to really race and perform out there, I think long run should be longer.

    Now if you are training nicely with your long run and 15-16 most every week, then you are in position to ramp up to a full in 8 or 10 weeks. My last piece of reality based advice, if you want to run once last full, then really put in the time and learn to run even splits on race day.

    I mostly agree with Jon here. In order for me to race a really good HM, I need to put in 60+ miles per week and maybe even push it to 70 for a couple weeks. I don't think that is half assed marathon training, but it's not what's required to race a marathon. It falls somewhere in between the two. 65 miles per week will give you a really good HM and will probably get you a decent marathon finishing ASSUMING you have been running good mileage for a couple years prior.

    So, if you hovering in that 40 mile per week range, ramping it up to 60 to 70 for marathon training should be doable. I say go for it. :)

    The Important words in Jon's post are "half *kitten*". While yes I know I could, I have no desire to run over 50-55 mpw. When I looked at the adjustments I'd make from a full to half, it was mostly in the long runs. I still intend to got to 15 for the half several times. My full training would top out low 50's with a weekly average in the low 40's. Half topping at low 40s with an average of 35 mpw. At this point I am still undecided, but leaning half. I just can't shake that draw of the full and the crazy sense of accomplishment you get crossing the line after 26.2 miles.

    I think that was a little tongue in cheek. A better comparison would be the difference between running a tolerable marathon and performing in the marathon. You could certainly successfully run a marathon using a training plan that looks like a HM plan during the week but extends the LSD to marathon training distance. The only thing that concerns me about this is that a 20 mile LSD on a 40 mpw plan is 1/2 the mileage. That's pretty heavy. Usually it's best to keep that LSD to 1/4 to 1/3 of total weekly mileage. Not saying it can't be done, just pointing out the concerns.
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
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    You guys crack me up. Good luck with your goals. I run 22 miles per week ( about 4 hours) , cycle hills 3 hours per week, lift weights 2 hours per week, and once in a while take a random 1 hour fitness class at the gym. I just ran a full, it was hard for me but still doable.
    So you do all that in 10 hrs a week and I run 70 miles in 10 hrs a week. We both exercise the same amount. How does that crack you up?
  • davemunger
    davemunger Posts: 1,139 Member
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    8 marathons (including qualifying and running Boston) here. Just to add to what's already been said, Daniels also lumps half-marathon and full-marathon training together. There really isn't much difference between the two. That said, when I've done well in marathons it has been when I have put in serious miles, especially in the key period about 8-4 weeks out from the race. But lots of people run marathons on 50 or fewer miles a week. You will certainly be able to finish, just maybe not PR.

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