How important are carbs when building lean muscle mass?

whyflysouth
whyflysouth Posts: 308 Member
edited September 21 in Fitness and Exercise
This thread isn't so much about losing weight, as it is about gaining lean body mass (muscle). It's pretty much accepted that muscle mass cannot be put on while eating at a caloric deficit below maintenance. I'd like to know why...

If a person has about 10 lbs of fat that he'd like to lose, and at the same time he's like to put on 10 lbs of muscle, the common advice to such a person would be to focus on one or the other first, building muscle by eating above maintenance, allot of protein, lifting heavy, etc, first, then cutting the fat by eating below maintenance second, or vice versa. Usually known as "bulking" or "cutting".

My question is, is it possible to do both at the same time by:

Eating slightly below maintenance calorie-wise (body should burn fat for energy, maybe also Catabolize muscle), but eating a diet very very high in protein so as to minimize catalysis and ensure anabolism of muscle tissue.

You are eating an excess of protein this way, so really if your diet is normally 2000 calories with 40% carbs/30% protein/30% fat, yielding 800 calories carbs, 600 cals protein, 600 cals fat... you cut back on the carbs and increase the protein to maybe 20% carbs, 40% protein, and 30% fat so you are going over with the protein and under w/ the carbs, protein is used to build muscle while carbs are used for energy in storage, wouldn't this configuration allow you to build muscle and lose fat at the same time?

Replies

  • CoachJ77
    CoachJ77 Posts: 80 Member
    The answer is no I am afraid. This is the reason why though.

    When bulking, like cutting, you dont want just any carb, you want complex carbs. With bulking your body NEEDS carbs to feed on to build the muscle. Many people think you need fat to gain muscle, that is just ridiculous. So if you are increasing your carb intake to say 200g of "clean" carbs, why cant you cut? Well if you have to eat that many carbs, you are burning them to increase muscle. Now with you workout plan, you want to be bulking, which means around 6-8 reps higher weight etc. But when you are cutting you want 10-12 reps so there is already a problem.

    It is quite simple in the laws of math though. Say you are an average 180lb guy that wants to do both. Well you say 2k calories. 200g of carbs, that is already 800 calories you are at. If you want to keep the muscle you need to also have at least 1g of protein per lb of body weight, so there is 185g of protein... about 800 more calories. Now you are at 1600 calories (hate to say it but this is what you need to lean out and you haven't considered fat yet). So the rest of your calories is to fat, 400 calories. that is about 40-45g of fat. That diet right there is a bulking diet basically. And that is by the numbers. So to lean out you would need to cut out something... cant cut fat, it is already low and you need at least 40g of good fats to be healthy... cant cut the protein or you cant gain muscle and the same principle why you cant cut the carbs.

    So I hoped this helped a bit buddy, good luck
  • whyflysouth
    whyflysouth Posts: 308 Member
    So I think with all this angst against carbs in the weight-loss environment these days, I assumed that carbs (complex or simple) aren't really needed for anything other than getting turned to storage (fat), and what you're saying is that complex carbs are needed if you want to build muscle, and lowering that carb intake won't help build. My hope was the body can consider the carb deficit as a lack of energy needed to build muscle and proceed to break down our own body fat for use in building that muscle instead.
  • HIzara
    HIzara Posts: 187
    Complex carbs such as vegetables is a natural metabolism, that actually helps to speed up your metabolism!
  • HIzara
    HIzara Posts: 187
    OH ya, brown rice is a complex carb that helps you stay fuller, longer. This way, you end up with more energy throughout the day (versus white rice) and less hungry, making you eat less!

    I think you should take the time to do research on different types of carbs, simple and complex, before taking them off your diet. Vegetables ARE considered a complex carb...
  • CoachJ77
    CoachJ77 Posts: 80 Member
    Unfortunately no, your body will actually start breaking down protein which will make you not gain muscle. You need any carb to gain muscle, dont get me wrong, but if you use complex carbs you will gain only muscle and very little if any fat while "bulking". They call it a "dirty bulk" when you just eat any carb because you will gain fat with your new muscle. So still you need carbs for muscle gain, complex carbs such as oatmeal is just the best way to stay lean and do that.

    Think of it this way; if you are that 180lb guy at say 15% body fat. You an either bulk or cut. If you bulk and gain 5 lbs of muscle in 3-4 months clean, you have not increased any fat but have gained 5 lbs, so now you are 185 lbs with 14.5% body fat and that is if you have not lost any fat int he process which I am sure you would if you really watched your diet. So you would probably be around 14% BF. Then cutting you could knock off 2% by reducing your carbs, but they should still be complex.
  • CoachJ77
    CoachJ77 Posts: 80 Member
    OH ya, brown rice is a complex carb that helps you stay fuller, longer. This way, you end up with more energy throughout the day (versus white rice) and less hungry, making you eat less!

    I think you should take the time to do research on different types of carbs, simple and complex, before taking them off your diet. Vegetables ARE considered a complex carb...

    Yes, veggies are considered a complex carb because they are high in fiber and that is the reason you feel full for a longer period of time. Unfortunately, your body cannot process fiber so your body is not using them to fuel your body in the muscle building process. I definitely agree though, you should be eating a ton of veggies while either bulking or cutting. Your body needs all the vitamins and minerals it can get especially while it is being stressed. But for bulking and or cutting, brown rice, and oatmeal are fantastic as carb substitutes.
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