Let's petition MFP to use a REAL BMR/ TDEE calculator
greenmeena
Posts: 118 Member
This post is for all of us out there who attack those "1200 cal/ day success!" posts.
From what I've seen, the people who go after those posts are genuinely concerned about the ruined metabolisms, yo-yo dieting, boomerang weight that occurs when people follow this recommendation. Although MFP was really only meant to be a calorie tracking site/ app, and a way to track exercise, people really do follow the guidelines and recommendations.
Now, if you are avid on this site and really read the threads, you'll come across "In Place Of A Roadmap" or "Eat More To Weigh Less" and you'll learn all about BMR, RMR, TDEE, net calories, etc etc.
BUT if you're new, you'll just plug your info into MFP and you'll be psyched to see that your options include "lose 2 lbs/ week" (well, who wouldn't want that!?) and it will tell you- lo and behold- 1200 calories per day. At least, that's what it told me, and I'm 5'4". It didn't seem unreasonable to me, but boy was I weak, cranky and exhausted on that calorie recommendation. Barely dragged through my workouts.
When I went to some of the calculators suggested (like the Scooby calculator, for example) I discovered that I averaged 1375 to 1450 as my BMR! That is well above the 1200 suggested by MFP! So in other words, MFP was suggesting starvation!
Well, starvation is not a long lasting solution to losing weight for the long haul.
This does not mean that a person might have that prescribed by an MD (say, someone who needs significant weight loss fast for life saving surgery) but it is not a good idea for those of us over 5' who want lasting changes.
What can we do to get the message to MFP that they should perhaps revamp their website a bit to have a real calculator embedded? There are so many good ones out there. Please please please stop suggesting this madness to people! Let people be guided by sense, and good health! Yes, it will take you a little bit longer to lose, but you'll look and feel amazing, and you won't bounce right back into your fatty jeans when you get sick of starving yourselves.
Who's with me? Can we ask for some changes, for the greater good?
many thanks
Greenmeena
From what I've seen, the people who go after those posts are genuinely concerned about the ruined metabolisms, yo-yo dieting, boomerang weight that occurs when people follow this recommendation. Although MFP was really only meant to be a calorie tracking site/ app, and a way to track exercise, people really do follow the guidelines and recommendations.
Now, if you are avid on this site and really read the threads, you'll come across "In Place Of A Roadmap" or "Eat More To Weigh Less" and you'll learn all about BMR, RMR, TDEE, net calories, etc etc.
BUT if you're new, you'll just plug your info into MFP and you'll be psyched to see that your options include "lose 2 lbs/ week" (well, who wouldn't want that!?) and it will tell you- lo and behold- 1200 calories per day. At least, that's what it told me, and I'm 5'4". It didn't seem unreasonable to me, but boy was I weak, cranky and exhausted on that calorie recommendation. Barely dragged through my workouts.
When I went to some of the calculators suggested (like the Scooby calculator, for example) I discovered that I averaged 1375 to 1450 as my BMR! That is well above the 1200 suggested by MFP! So in other words, MFP was suggesting starvation!
Well, starvation is not a long lasting solution to losing weight for the long haul.
This does not mean that a person might have that prescribed by an MD (say, someone who needs significant weight loss fast for life saving surgery) but it is not a good idea for those of us over 5' who want lasting changes.
What can we do to get the message to MFP that they should perhaps revamp their website a bit to have a real calculator embedded? There are so many good ones out there. Please please please stop suggesting this madness to people! Let people be guided by sense, and good health! Yes, it will take you a little bit longer to lose, but you'll look and feel amazing, and you won't bounce right back into your fatty jeans when you get sick of starving yourselves.
Who's with me? Can we ask for some changes, for the greater good?
many thanks
Greenmeena
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Replies
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They already do.0
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Exercise is calculated daily with MFP. When you go to a random website, you are plugging in your exercise before you even do it.0
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They do, the 1200 cals comes from users choosing the highest weightloss per week goal, which is both unrealistic and unsustainable.0
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If you do it right, your MFP goal plus exercise calories comes out pretty close to the TDEE - 20% numbers. Or at least mine did.
I'm sticking to MFP numbers for now simply because my workouts are unpredictable and I get bored easily, so I switch it up a lot.
It may be beneficial for MFP to add some suggestions for people who are just starting out about what healthy weight loss goals might be for a given start weight. But I actually think it's a good thing that people read about TDEE and calculate their own numbers for themselves. It's educational, and the more you learn about your body and healthy living, the better off you'll be!0 -
But I disagree. As I said, when I calculated my BMR, it came out to 1375 (the lowest possible). MFP gave me 1200. It needs to be better than that. Most folk will go by *that* number, which is not based in reality0
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But I disagree. As I said, when I calculated my BMR, it came out to 1375 (the lowest possible). MFP gave me 1200. It needs to be better than that. Most folk will go by *that* number, which is not based in reality
Trying to lose 2lbs/week isn't reality for most either.0 -
But I disagree. As I said, when I calculated my BMR, it came out to 1375 (the lowest possible). MFP gave me 1200. It needs to be better than that. Most folk will go by *that* number, which is not based in reality
1375 isn't the lowest possible BMR, I just dialled in my wife and it came out at less than that.
I think you're arguing for the maximum weight loss setting to be 1 lb/week ?0 -
But I disagree. As I said, when I calculated my BMR, it came out to 1375 (the lowest possible). MFP gave me 1200. It needs to be better than that. Most folk will go by *that* number, which is not based in reality
1375 isn't the lowest possible BMR, I just dialled in my wife and it came out at less than that.
I think you're arguing for the maximum weight loss setting to be 1 lb/week ?
I think the OP's statement of 1375 being the lowest possible meant for her particularly. She mentioned using several different calculators to figure her BMR and the lowest value for her range was 1375.
And I think you're right about the 1lb a week setting. Seems like anyone who selects losing 2lbs a week is given a caloric goal in the 1200 range.0 -
And I think you're right about the 1lb a week setting. Seems like anyone who selects losing 2lbs a week is given a caloric goal in the 1200 range.
2 lbs/week is a 1000 cal/day deficit, so anyone with a TDEE of 2200 or less will be given 1200 as that's the minimum.
Limit it to 1 lb/week and anyone with a TDEE of 1700 or more will get a correct target.
It does say that the rate of loss will be less than the input value if the minimum applies, but that is either overlooked or quickly forgotten.0 -
And I think you're right about the 1lb a week setting. Seems like anyone who selects losing 2lbs a week is given a caloric goal in the 1200 range.
2 lbs/week is a 1000 cal/day deficit, so anyone with a TDEE of 2200 or less will be given 1200 as that's the minimum.
Limit it to 1 lb/week and anyone with a TDEE of 1700 or more will get a correct target.
It does say that the rate of loss will be less than the input value if the minimum applies, but that is either overlooked or quickly forgotten.
When you explain it that way it makes sense to me. Thank you. I wonder how many folks are really understanding what MFP is trying to tell them.0 -
I was doing the 1200 calorie thing when I first started a month ago..I didn't know really where to start. I had to learn through guidance of my wonderful mfp friends and reading on the whole science of it all. I am gradually increasing my calories. I had a 4 lb loss this week with the increase. I expect a lower number this week but I am glad I'm learning. Thanks for posting!0
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Ok, there's a lot of interesting conversation but you're MISSING THE POINT. I was using my numbers as an example. If MFP were programmed correctly, so that it could tell you what your actual BMR is (based on body fat %, measurements, etc etc) then it would NEVER suggest 1200 for me EVER.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
If MFP were programmed to tell you- hey, your BMR is THIS number, never go below it, folks wouldn't be hitting a dangerous place of dieting too low. In other words, it would say- "Greenmeena, your BMR is 1375, what you need to survive. Eat at least this much." and then yes, calculate in your exercise etc etc. I'm no programmer, I'm just a concerned person who thinks that the flaw in this particular app is extremely dangerous for most people.
Is this making sense now?0 -
And the reason I'm concerned is that a lot of newbies see the 2lb/ week option and think, awesome! I want a bikini bod by summer! And they go for it (I did). Because it is an option. It is not a healthy option. I am currently eating at 1600-1700 per week and losing weight, doing heavy lifting. I figured out my numbers with In Place Of A Roadmap and Eat More To Weigh Less.
Just really worried about the misinformation and unhealthy goals that are set here.0 -
Ok, there's a lot of interesting conversation but you're MISSING THE POINT. I was using my numbers as an example. If MFP were programmed correctly, so that it could tell you what your actual BMR is (based on body fat %, measurements, etc etc) then it would NEVER suggest 1200 for me EVER.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
Not really, it calculates your BMR using a recognised formula and then uses it to calculate your daily activity TDEE. From that it makes a subtraction. There is no flaw in the logic, if applied realistically (which might exclude 2 lb/week losses). An obesity researcher would happily put you on 1200 or less in a clinical trial.
You may have a view that one should not eat less than BMR, for some reason. This isn't widely accepted, and isn't even prevalent outside this web site's forums.
So if your petition is about "don't eat less than your BMR" then that's been argued before and gone nowhere.
You may also need to consider the people who are able to limit their eating to 1200 or similar numbers and who do lose weight. Do you propose to make them eat more ?0 -
At 1200 cals I should lose 1.1lbs a week! I have to be honest and say that it does leave me weak after and during workouts. I am planning to increase to 1300 and eat my exercise cals to see if this helps!0
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I think people need to use some common sense as well. I too selected 2lbs per week at first and I was given 1200 calories per day. I didn't even make it to day two I was just too hungry. So I upped it to 1500 and I was still going to bed with a rumbling tummy to the point I was getting up at night to eat a spoon of greek style yogurt. So I upped it again and I am now at 1590 calories a day. I feel those are sufficient and now that I have learnt how to eat to stay full for longer by eating complex carbs and protein I can even be full with 1350. I try to never go under 1200 but some days can just be off and as long as it is just occasional I feel I am ok, my weekly average also adds up so I am happy.
I lost 12lbs in 30 days and now my weight loss as slowed down to 1lbs per week. I am not worried about the short term goal of being thinner for summer anymore because I know that now I have changed my lifestyle I will be a healthy weight and fit for life.
People need to change their mindset and realise that all the rubbish fad diets that have been shoved on them are just a load crap.0 -
"greenmeena" I very much agree with you. I want to lose weight slowly so that my eating habits change and when the weight is gone it does not go back on. The 1200 calories plus eating excercise calories is great when you only have a small amount to lose but if like me you have lots then we need to start higher to make it sustainable. If set too low where do you go? exercise of course but not everyone is able to or has an indefinate amount of time to dedicate. I have looked at other sites and have also found that I should be eating more, my BMR is 1617 on scooby and on 1618 on excercise 4 weight loss. Now you can do some really scientific calculations and may get your doctor to work it out for you but I honestly believe you need to start of slow and check your BMR on a regular basis so you can reduce calories as you go. I think this site is designed for people who do a lot of fitness hence its name. I am really only using it as a guide/tracker. People will learn more from the forums like I did. What we have to remember is people need to do what works for them we are all unique and whilst bodies are similar they are not all the same and do not react in the same way!0
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Ok, there's a lot of interesting conversation but you're MISSING THE POINT. I was using my numbers as an example. If MFP were programmed correctly, so that it could tell you what your actual BMR is (based on body fat %, measurements, etc etc) then it would NEVER suggest 1200 for me EVER.
Do you see what I'm getting ?
How about free will and choice? Personal responsibility?
MFP recommends 1 pound per week lost, and at least for me, those calorie counts would be close to TDEE -20%. If I choose to set it at 2pound per week lost despite their recommendations, that is on me. You, MFP or any other person or group is in not responsible for my choice, and quite frankly I don't want you to be.0 -
most of the numbers are just estimates. Most people don't know their actual body fat. if your using one cheap electric grip things or a scale they aren't accurate. Even a caliper isn't totally acurate. most people have to get your numbers by trial and error.Ok, there's a lot of interesting conversation but you're MISSING THE POINT. I was using my numbers as an example. If MFP were programmed correctly, so that it could tell you what your actual BMR is (based on body fat %, measurements, etc etc) then it would NEVER suggest 1200 for me EVER.
Is this making sense now?0 -
How about free will and choice? Personal responsibility?
MFP recommends 1 pound per week lost, and at least for me, those calorie counts would be close to TDEE -20%. If I choose to set it at 2pound per week lost despite their recommendations, that is on me. You, MFP or any other person or group is in not responsible for my choice, and quite frankly I don't want you to be.
I like you, you are getting a friend request :flowerforyou:0 -
I actually like the flexibility of MFP. You can use the programme as is, or use custom goals. Like others, I eat much the same amount of calories whether I do the MFP system or do TDEE - x%. With TDEE - x% I'm probably still NETTING below my BMR sometimes.
Perhaps the problem is just in how MFP prompts you to set up your goals. It seems to recommend a 1lb a week weight loss for everybody and for many of us, that will mean 1200 calories before exercise. It doesn't really explain what's meant by 1 lb a week weight loss, when in fact it just means a deficit of 500 calories a day, as long as that takes you above 1200. It's confusing at first! Espeically as a lot of people will be given 1200 calories no matter whether they choose 2lb a week loss or the "recommended" 1lb a week loss.
It doesn't explain why a 500 calorie deficit is "recommended" and what are the advantages or disadvantages of going higher or lower. Personally, I started off with 1lb a week and changed to 1/2 lb a week when I was finding it dificult, but again it's confusing when there's not much difference between the two. I would just have liked more information and guidance from MFP to begin with. For instance, it's not clear to everyone that you fitness goals don't affect your calorie goal and that you have to manually enter your exercise each day.
If it really is dangerous for people to lose 1 lb a week, then maybe that option shouldn't be there and everybody should be set at 1/2 lb a week. But I'm sure there are some people who could lose 1lb a week, and it would be nice if they had the option available.0 -
Ok, there's a lot of interesting conversation but you're MISSING THE POINT. I was using my numbers as an example. If MFP were programmed correctly, so that it could tell you what your actual BMR is (based on body fat %, measurements, etc etc) then it would NEVER suggest 1200 for me EVER.
Do you see what I'm getting ?
How about free will and choice? Personal responsibility?
MFP recommends 1 pound per week lost, and at least for me, those calorie counts would be close to TDEE -20%. If I choose to set it at 2pound per week lost despite their recommendations, that is on me. You, MFP or any other person or group is in not responsible for my choice, and quite frankly I don't want you to be.
^^AMEN!
I am getting really sick and tired of people coming on this site and reading a few forum posts and suddenly they are the expert on the perfect way for everyone to lose weight. First off, no offense, but unless your ticker is wrong, you haven't managed to lose one pound yet. So whatever you have been doing, apparently isn't working for you. So when you figure out what works for YOU, and you lose the weight and prove that it does work for YOU, THEN you can have some credibility to give other people advice. You certainly do not have the credibility to even suggest that the whole website, (which is free to use, by the way) should be changed because you read from other people that it is wrong. Sheez!
The website is a tool. If used correctly, it has helped many many people lose weight and get healthier. This site is for adults. Adults have to be responsible for tools they decide to use, and use them correctly. Adults have brains. If you try something and it isn't working for you, then WOW, how about trying something different? Nothing on this site is forcing you to eat a certain way.
As for your BMR- there is no online calculator that can tell you your exact BMR. They can give you an estimate based on other people who are similar in size and body composition, but they cannot take in consideration all the things that factor into your BMR.
And knowing your BMR doesn't even matter! Weight loss is achieved by creating a calorie deficit from your TDEE. That is the only number you need to know. And the only way to find out that number is by tracking your calories and weight loss accurately.
Eating below a random number that some calculator tells you is your BMR will NOT make you go into 'starvation mode'. Because that calculator doesn't know your true BMR.
And for most people, unless you are underweight already, you have fat stores to be used for energy when you eat at a calorie deficit.
For someone who is 5'6" and weighs 100 pounds and wants to lose 2 pounds a week, is just crazy. Certainly that is not healthy for them. But to tell a person who is 200 pounds overweight that they should not try to lose more than 1 pound a week is crazy as well. That would take them 4 YEARS to get to a healthy weight. By then, they could have died from Diabetes or a heart attack. They can certainly eat reasonably under their BMR for a time, without causing damage.
You mentioned common sense in one of your posts on here? That is exactly what everyone who comes on here needs to use.
BTW, when I plugged MY stats into the Katch Mccardle calculator, it gave me a BMR that was 200 points BELOW what MFP says. I used that information to realize how different we can be, and to figure out what works for ME, not what a bunch of strangers on the internet try to tell me is right.
Educate yourself thru research and trial and error. Sort out what works for you and doesn't work for you. Then move on and get healthier.0 -
MFP is not here to baby every one through there weight loss. They do not have the resources. They give the information and we decided decide how we are to use it. Limiting people to selecting only 1 pound doesn't take into account the morbidly obese who can select the 2 pound option and still be given a reasonable calories figure. ( I was given 1800 as my starting figure after selecting 2 pound). I personally have been using mfp figures and Ann happy with my weight loss and never really hungry.
It comes down to personal responsibility and common sense no matter what they're will always be those who push it to extremes0 -
Well saidOk, there's a lot of interesting conversation but you're MISSING THE POINT. I was using my numbers as an example. If MFP were programmed correctly, so that it could tell you what your actual BMR is (based on body fat %, measurements, etc etc) then it would NEVER suggest 1200 for me EVER.
Do you see what I'm getting ?
How about free will and choice? Personal responsibility?
MFP recommends 1 pound per week lost, and at least for me, those calorie counts would be close to TDEE -20%. If I choose to set it at 2pound per week lost despite their recommendations, that is on me. You, MFP or any other person or group is in not responsible for my choice, and quite frankly I don't want you to be.
^^AMEN!
I am getting really sick and tired of people coming on this site and reading a few forum posts and suddenly they are the expert on the perfect way for everyone to lose weight. First off, no offense, but unless your ticker is wrong, you haven't managed to lose one pound yet. So whatever you have been doing, apparently isn't working for you. So when you figure out what works for YOU, and you lose the weight and prove that it does work for YOU, THEN you can have some credibility to give other people advice. You certainly do not have the credibility to even suggest that the whole website, (which is free to use, by the way) should be changed because you read from other people that it is wrong. Sheez!
The website is a tool. If used correctly, it has helped many many people lose weight and get healthier. This site is for adults. Adults have to be responsible for tools they decide to use, and use them correctly. Adults have brains. If you try something and it isn't working for you, then WOW, how about trying something different? Nothing on this site is forcing you to eat a certain way.
As for your BMR- there is no online calculator that can tell you your exact BMR. They can give you an estimate based on other people who are similar in size and body composition, but they cannot take in consideration all the things that factor into your BMR.
And knowing your BMR doesn't even matter! Weight loss is achieved by creating a calorie deficit from your TDEE. That is the only number you need to know. And the only way to find out that number is by tracking your calories and weight loss accurately.
Eating below a random number that some calculator tells you is your BMR will NOT make you go into 'starvation mode'. Because that calculator doesn't know your true BMR.
And for most people, unless you are underweight already, you have fat stores to be used for energy when you eat at a calorie deficit.
For someone who is 5'6" and weighs 100 pounds and wants to lose 2 pounds a week, is just crazy. Certainly that is not healthy for them. But to tell a person who is 200 pounds overweight that they should not try to lose more than 1 pound a week is crazy as well. That would take them 4 YEARS to get to a healthy weight. By then, they could have died from Diabetes or a heart attack. They can certainly eat reasonably under their BMR for a time, without causing damage.
You mentioned common sense in one of your posts on here? That is exactly what everyone who comes on here needs to use.
BTW, when I plugged MY stats into the Katch Mccardle calculator, it gave me a BMR that was 200 points BELOW what MFP says. I used that information to realize how different we can be, and to figure out what works for ME, not what a bunch of strangers on the internet try to tell me is right.
Educate yourself thru research and trial and error. Sort out what works for you and doesn't work for you. Then move on and get healthier.0 -
I meant to mention as well, that MFP does have a BMR calculator, the Mifflin-St Jeor one. You have to look for it, but it's there if anybody wants it. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/tools/bmr-calculator0
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