explain 'Evil Carbs' to me please

Arkhos
Arkhos Posts: 290 Member
What happens if you are on a high protein (277g) low carb (95g) diet for a week and then go immediately into a low protein / high carbs diet? Do the carbs create water retention/water weight? Or does ONLY sodium do that? Does the body hold onto the carbs because they were missing the week before?

In 1-2 days of the diet switch scale goes up 10-15 lbs. Still at +15lbs five days into the high carbs...

Any scientific backing would be appreciated, Thanks.

Replies

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Totally depends on your level of activity and exercise and intensity.

    You have carb stores in the muscles anyway.

    If you do cardio, you are asking body to store more since it uses more carbs, so it does.

    But if you constantly undereat for amount of carbs the body would like to store, then you can say you are normally running carb-depleted to some stage.

    When you finally eat some, they will get stored.

    500 calories worth stored is 1 lb. 1 gram glucose with 2.7 gram water together.

    So depends on you, if 95 gram met your activity needs for carbs and you weren't running in perpetual depleted mode, you won't gain.
    But if you were, you will.

    What has normally been found is that merely eating in deficit causes the body to stop storing as much as it normally might, whether really needed or not.
    Hence the big water weight loss the first week or two.

    Also why there is a big gain when you start eating at TDEE again, if you were indeed still losing at a deficit, and not just screeching into maintenance mode and not actually increasing calories.

    You don't need science, you can do the math yourself for your own routine.
    Your resting energy use would normally be 10-0% carbs.
    Light daily activity up to lower exercise level is usually 10-30% carbs.
    Exercise from light to aerobic is 30-65% carbs.
    Aerobic to anaerobic is 65-100% carbs.

    So if your exercise burned 500 calories in aerobic zone, say 300 calories of carbs, that means 75 grams of carbs burned.

    Since obviously not enough carbs is taken in probably for all day usage and the exercise, some of your protein if unneeded in that form, is converted to glucose for use right then, and if not needed for replenishing glucose stores.

    The problem is usually after converting protein, your body needs it right then (except night time) and so stores are never topped off totally.

    Means you always have room for storage, usually.

    This doesn't even take a change to diet. One meal will do it.
    This is the "1 piece of wedding cake made me gain 5 lbs" syndrome you'll hear about.
    Well, 8 oz's of cake doesn't weigh 5 lbs.

    The ladies basically dieted themselves down the last week, or longer, and everyone else wanting to look good for the wedding, meaning lower than normal glucose stores.
    That cake had tons of carbs, stored with water, bingo - 5 lbs when you count the sodium from the nuts too.

    You can also see this effect, go low carb, you get rid of a lot of water. Glucose burned but not replaced, unneeded water.
    You go back high carb, you should notice you can drink normal amount and NOT get rid of the normal amount of water, as glucose is stored and water used.

    After every bike ride I have a lot of excess fluid to get rid of, despite sweating like a pig and drinking enough water to replace it. Usually lose 2-4 lbs.
    Then during recovery and still drinking normal, never need to use restroom. On Monday after a long ride, I've gone through 2 cups of coffee (usually makes me go by itself) and 32 oz's of water, and nothing. That is not all from making of for sweating.
    And weight is back up on Tue.
  • Arkhos
    Arkhos Posts: 290 Member
    Thanks for the reply heybales! So 500 calories of carbs = 1lb stored. So each day that I ate high carbs just added to the storage. I burned 3783 calories this week from exercise, half cardio half strength. Scale had me up 13lbs still this morning. Been increasing my fluid intake but sodium is still higher than normal.

    Is fluid intake and exercise the best way to drop the storage weight, or did I just add 13lbs that I have to work off like normal fat/weight loss?

    I made the choice to eat what I ate, I just need my mind to understand how it added so much weight over a few days; to keep from doing it again.

    thanks for any replies!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Water retained because of sodium somewhat raises your metabolism, body must still deal with it.

    Water stored with glucose is big part of your BMR energy spent, in fact the majority of energy spent on BMR is managing fluid levels in the cells.

    That is good weight, shouldn't want to get rid of it, just slow your metabolism down.

    You can only store about 4 lbs or 2000 calories of glucose in the muscle though, another almost 500 in the liver. Special endurance training might increase the muscle storage somewhat.

    So 13 lbs didn't come from that, sodium is the rest, and once on normal level and drinking water, it's gone.

    So you don't want to try to work off that weight, because you'll just see it again eventually, and it's increased your LBM and your metabolism, unless you are going to spend rest of your life with always depleted glucose stores. Which many people do. But be prepared for massive weight fluctuations whenever you eat more carbs.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    What happens if you are on a high protein (277g) low carb (95g) diet for a week and then go immediately into a low protein / high carbs diet? Do the carbs create water retention/water weight? Or does ONLY sodium do that?

    Reducing carbs reduces glycogen, water is associated with glycogen storage (more water than glycogen) so if you reload the glycogen you pick up water too.

    http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=566807 talks of the inhibiting effect of carb intake on sodium loss to urine, so carb intake should retain more sodium and hence more water to keep the osmolality in line.
  • lauren3101
    lauren3101 Posts: 1,853 Member
    Totally depends on your level of activity and exercise and intensity.

    You have carb stores in the muscles anyway.

    If you do cardio, you are asking body to store more since it uses more carbs, so it does.

    But if you constantly undereat for amount of carbs the body would like to store, then you can say you are normally running carb-depleted to some stage.

    When you finally eat some, they will get stored.

    500 calories worth stored is 1 lb. 1 gram glucose with 2.7 gram water together.

    So depends on you, if 95 gram met your activity needs for carbs and you weren't running in perpetual depleted mode, you won't gain.
    But if you were, you will.

    What has normally been found is that merely eating in deficit causes the body to stop storing as much as it normally might, whether really needed or not.
    Hence the big water weight loss the first week or two.

    Also why there is a big gain when you start eating at TDEE again, if you were indeed still losing at a deficit, and not just screeching into maintenance mode and not actually increasing calories.

    You don't need science, you can do the math yourself for your own routine.
    Your resting energy use would normally be 10-0% carbs.
    Light daily activity up to lower exercise level is usually 10-30% carbs.
    Exercise from light to aerobic is 30-65% carbs.
    Aerobic to anaerobic is 65-100% carbs.

    So if your exercise burned 500 calories in aerobic zone, say 300 calories of carbs, that means 75 grams of carbs burned.

    Since obviously not enough carbs is taken in probably for all day usage and the exercise, some of your protein if unneeded in that form, is converted to glucose for use right then, and if not needed for replenishing glucose stores.

    The problem is usually after converting protein, your body needs it right then (except night time) and so stores are never topped off totally.

    Means you always have room for storage, usually.

    This doesn't even take a change to diet. One meal will do it.
    This is the "1 piece of wedding cake made me gain 5 lbs" syndrome you'll hear about.
    Well, 8 oz's of cake doesn't weigh 5 lbs.

    The ladies basically dieted themselves down the last week, or longer, and everyone else wanting to look good for the wedding, meaning lower than normal glucose stores.
    That cake had tons of carbs, stored with water, bingo - 5 lbs when you count the sodium from the nuts too.

    You can also see this effect, go low carb, you get rid of a lot of water. Glucose burned but not replaced, unneeded water.
    You go back high carb, you should notice you can drink normal amount and NOT get rid of the normal amount of water, as glucose is stored and water used.

    After every bike ride I have a lot of excess fluid to get rid of, despite sweating like a pig and drinking enough water to replace it. Usually lose 2-4 lbs.
    Then during recovery and still drinking normal, never need to use restroom. On Monday after a long ride, I've gone through 2 cups of coffee (usually makes me go by itself) and 32 oz's of water, and nothing. That is not all from making of for sweating.
    And weight is back up on Tue.

    Heybales, you always have cracking answers.

    The whole carb explanation is far too complex for my small brain to process, however, which is why I don't count carbs. :laugh: