Why can anorexic individuals not see the difference?!
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isnt that like asking why cant a depressed person just cheer up?0
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I've never had an eating disorder, but I have had (do have) other emotional disorders (anxiety and depression) as well as wicked bad eyesight (astigmatism and myopia).
I can draw parallels between the two. My eyesight problems keep me from physically seeing the world clearly. Everything is blurry and out of focus. My emotional problems keep me from mentally seeing the world clearly. Everything is bleak.
Just like the eye problems, the emotional problems happen gradually. You don't really notice as your eyesight gets just a little bit worse, although you may experience some symptoms like headaches. But it isn't until you go in for an exam and get new glasses or contacts that you realize just how out of focus everything has been.
It's trickier with emotional problems. Harder to diagnose, harder to treat, and it also happens so gradually that you just accept how you're feeling as normal.0 -
If you think about a person with OCD, to the normal person, it seems absolutely ridiculous that an individual would have to engage in repetitive activities constantly, but to that person with the disorder, they MUST do it for everything to be right in the world. Anorexia is a disease. They have unattainable images in their head, so they will never get to the "ok, now i look good" phase like the average person can.0
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First off I don't have an ED, so forgive me if I'm way off track, but the way I understand it having OCD (since a child) is that The Mind is super complex and thoughts can become distorted, usually by traumatic events or confusing events which the mind tries to rationalise. All I can say is that no matter how rational an onlooker may think, a sufferer will equally think that their own thoughts are rational, even if self harming. So for example an ED sufferer may not eat, but this does not necessarily mean this is too be thin, it could be a distorted thought about food, eating, swallowing or the process of digestion, the outcome of the act of eating etc, and what the event of eating will cause....e.g. I may choke, or I may be sick, or eating is healthy and I know my body needs it, but I do not deserve this, because of ................ The distorted thought is usually triggered by an earlier distressing event, but that event may not directly relate to food, yet food had become a fixation as in I can control the food intake, which means I can control the bad thoughts, or control the outcome.,
I may be wrong like I said I do not suffer, but as it is a distorted control behaviour, I assume it is far more complex than wanting to be thin.
Similarly to what someone else said, someone with a true ED probably does not post pics of their body, as they are most likely not to be confident in their own body image.0 -
It is a mind thing. I am not anorexic, but still have a distorted image of the way I look. What I see in the mirror is not what everyone else sees, or at least that's what they tell me lol. Many people with self image problems pick apart everything about themselves.0
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i was never diagnosed, but as a child i believe i was anorexic. my mom has a photo of me at the age of 7-8 in which my legs were bones. gross. but at the time i honestly saw myself as fat. i thought i had several extra pounds and wouldn't eat much because i believed i was adding to the fat. looking back, there wasn't any.
not sure what happened, my folks divorced which brought a drastic location change, and i didn't look at myself so much anymore (maybe it was grief? who knows.) anyway, i was a normal weight throughout high school and ballooned after high school. particularly as an adult, i got huge (6'2", 308 at my heaviest). i think i saw myself as smaller than i really am. again, distorted view of my mirror image. i'm hoping to lose weight and see myself as i really am, but i'm keeping present in mind the possibility of going overboard (or minimizing the fatness) again. i plan to start a photo journal to keep tabs on myself. and to be encouraged by any changes.
anyway, it is pretty much not seeing reality and images as they are. as the person is. the image is distorted by the belief. (i must be fat/i can't be that fat)0 -
No personal experience with eating disorders, but from what I understand, a lot of it has to do with a distorted self-image. They'll say that the healthy-thin person and the unhealthy-thin person both look great, but they themselves are fat and hideous even if they are actually thinner than the people who they say look great.
This.0 -
isnt that like asking why cant a depressed person just cheer up?
^ Exactly!
Eating disorders like others have said are a mental health issue.0 -
It's not really about being thin. It's often about control or other mental health issues. I was never *that* thin but to myself, I looked exactly the same as I did when I was 40lbs heavier. I honestly couldn't see why everyone was telling me I didn't look healthy. It wasn't about how I looked though. I couldn't eat. My ED brain wouldn't allow me to so every bite was torture. I never wanted to be 50lbs and all skin and bones. I wanted to be fit and toned but as I got sicker and sicker I wanted to be thinner and thinner until I wasted away. By that point those really thin people started to look more normal to me and they weren't as thin as I first thought they were. It's a terrible disease and even though I exercised and what I did end up eating was clean and healthy it doesn't help. I lost a lot of muscle so I couldn't be fit and strong. It's very hard to explain if you've never been in that situation. Just like I can't imagine what it would be like to be a drug addict or bipolar. Because I'm neither of those. I also can't understand how it's so easy for people to enjoy food even though I was like that at one point.
ETA: there comes a point where you are too weak to do much if anything so exercising and toning is out of the question but you still feel that need for control. The need to be thinner. It's not as simple as just deciding to be healthy. Like one person said, it's like telling a depressed person to cheer up. And, from my experience at least, people with EDs often suffer from depression among other things.0 -
So I in no way am judging anorexics, but I am simply asking this as I am trying to find more information/maybe some personal experiences who could explain this to me.
Why is it that anorexic males/females can not see the difference between a healthy body weight (whether is be strong, ripped, toned - whatever) and the unhealthy body weight (bones, rib cage, lack of muscle). Like...I guess do anorexics find the unhealthy look "sexy" or "in" or "desirable"?
I don't know, I just think that if a picture of a body that is toned/muscular/thin were shown (Lets just use jillian Michaels, because i love her) VS. a body image of lets say an anorexic body...would an anorexic prefer to look like the healthy-thin person or the unhealthy-thin person...any thoughts?
I was in a treatment facility for Anorexia when I was 16, I have recovered very well...just one relapse at 18.
You have to remember that Anorexia is a mental illness, and that all of us have various degrees of Body Dysmorphia. We don't see ourselves as we are. We would find Jillian Michaels' body and the unhealthy skinny body equally desirable...because it's thin. Thin is thin. Toned is toned. Bones are bones. I do not have the body to weigh less than like 135. I have child-bearing hips and hold all weight/fat I have in my hips, butt, thighs. When I was 114lbs with protruding hips bones, sunken cheeks, an overly-defined clavicle, and a huge gap between my thighs when standing up, I didn't see that.
Looking back at pictures now that I'm in recovery I can see who scary thin I was at the time. But at the time, when I looked in the mirror, I saw Rosie O'Donnell. I still struggle a bit and receive therapy for the Body Dysmorphia (BD) aspect of things. It's difficult to get treatment for BD.
It's also a lot about control. Most ED sufferers have been victimized in some way, and one's body and eating habits is the ultimate thing you have control over. I was raped when I was 15 and diagnosed Anorexic at 16. Coincidence? No. The majority of sufferers have a story similar to mine. My body was violated and during the attack, and loooong after, I felt disgusting and that my body was taken from me (I was a virgin when this happened). My eating habits and how I looked were 2 things that could not be effected by him or anyone else. Sometimes I believe my illness started as some sort of f****d up self-punishment or discipline that grew into this'd unyielding need and obsession to be thin. My psychiatrist believes that after my attack I began starving myself as a way to make myself unattractive and undesirable to men, but you can theorize all day about one's subconscious actions.
Just remember that Anorexia, Bulimia, and EDNOS are no less mental illnesses than Schizophrenia or Depression, and that unless you've endured it and are a survivor it's something that you will never truly be able to understand.0 -
I have to say, body image/body dysmorphia is a weird thing. I can still see myself as fat even though my BMI is now under 21. I use pictures to judge how I really look because I can disconnect them from 'me' and see only the body.0
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So I in no way am judging anorexics, but I am simply asking this as I am trying to find more information/maybe some personal experiences who could explain this to me.
Why is it that anorexic males/females can not see the difference between a healthy body weight (whether is be strong, ripped, toned - whatever) and the unhealthy body weight (bones, rib cage, lack of muscle). Like...I guess do anorexics find the unhealthy look "sexy" or "in" or "desirable"?
I don't know, I just think that if a picture of a body that is toned/muscular/thin were shown (Lets just use jillian Michaels, because i love her) VS. a body image of lets say an anorexic body...would an anorexic prefer to look like the healthy-thin person or the unhealthy-thin person...any thoughts?
I was in a treatment facility for Anorexia when I was 16, I have recovered very well...just one relapse at 18.
You have to remember that Anorexia is a mental illness, and that all of us have various degrees of Body Dysmorphia. We don't see ourselves as we are. We would find Jillian Michaels' body and the unhealthy skinny body equally desirable...because it's thin. Thin is thin. Toned is toned. Bones are bones. I do not have the body to weigh less than like 135. I have child-bearing hips and hold all weight/fat I have in my hips, butt, thighs. When I was 114lbs with protruding hips bones, sunken cheeks, an overly-defined clavicle, and a huge gap between my thighs when standing up, I didn't see that.
Looking back at pictures now that I'm in recovery I can see who scary thin I was at the time. But at the time, when I looked in the mirror, I saw Rosie O'Donnell. I still struggle a bit and receive therapy for the Body Dysmorphia (BD) aspect of things. It's difficult to get treatment for BD.
It's also a lot about control. Most ED sufferers have been victimized in some way, and one's body and eating habits is the ultimate thing you have control over. I was raped when I was 15 and diagnosed Anorexic at 16. Coincidence? No. The majority of sufferers have a story similar to mine. My body was violated and during the attack, and loooong after, I felt disgusting and that my body was taken from me (I was a virgin when this happened). My eating habits and how I looked were 2 things that could not be effected by him or anyone else. Sometimes I believe my illness started as some sort of f****d up self-punishment or discipline that grew into this'd unyielding need and obsession to be thin. My psychiatrist believes that after my attack I began starving myself as a way to make myself unattractive and undesirable to men, but you can theorize all day about one's subconscious actions.
Just remember that Anorexia, Bulimia, and EDNOS are no less mental illnesses than Schizophrenia or Depression, and that unless you've endured it and are a survivor it's something that you will never truly be able to understand.
Great job on your recovery not only from your ED but also from your attack. I'm sure you'll achieve your goals and I wish you every success for the future xx0 -
It is a mental thing, one will look in a mirror and see a fat person staring back ; they do not think they are "skinny" as you put it.
^^Exactly0 -
So I in no way am judging anorexics, but I am simply asking this as I am trying to find more information/maybe some personal experiences who could explain this to me.
Why is it that anorexic males/females can not see the difference between a healthy body weight (whether is be strong, ripped, toned - whatever) and the unhealthy body weight (bones, rib cage, lack of muscle). Like...I guess do anorexics find the unhealthy look "sexy" or "in" or "desirable"?
I don't know, I just think that if a picture of a body that is toned/muscular/thin were shown (Lets just use jillian Michaels, because i love her) VS. a body image of lets say an anorexic body...would an anorexic prefer to look like the healthy-thin person or the unhealthy-thin person...any thoughts?
I was in a treatment facility for Anorexia when I was 16, I have recovered very well...just one relapse at 18.
You have to remember that Anorexia is a mental illness, and that all of us have various degrees of Body Dysmorphia. We don't see ourselves as we are. We would find Jillian Michaels' body and the unhealthy skinny body equally desirable...because it's thin. Thin is thin. Toned is toned. Bones are bones. I do not have the body to weigh less than like 135. I have child-bearing hips and hold all weight/fat I have in my hips, butt, thighs. When I was 114lbs with protruding hips bones, sunken cheeks, an overly-defined clavicle, and a huge gap between my thighs when standing up, I didn't see that.
Looking back at pictures now that I'm in recovery I can see who scary thin I was at the time. But at the time, when I looked in the mirror, I saw Rosie O'Donnell. I still struggle a bit and receive therapy for the Body Dysmorphia (BD) aspect of things. It's difficult to get treatment for BD.
It's also a lot about control. Most ED sufferers have been victimized in some way, and one's body and eating habits is the ultimate thing you have control over. I was raped when I was 15 and diagnosed Anorexic at 16. Coincidence? No. The majority of sufferers have a story similar to mine. My body was violated and during the attack, and loooong after, I felt disgusting and that my body was taken from me (I was a virgin when this happened). My eating habits and how I looked were 2 things that could not be effected by him or anyone else. Sometimes I believe my illness started as some sort of f****d up self-punishment or discipline that grew into this'd unyielding need and obsession to be thin. My psychiatrist believes that after my attack I began starving myself as a way to make myself unattractive and undesirable to men, but you can theorize all day about one's subconscious actions.
Just remember that Anorexia, Bulimia, and EDNOS are no less mental illnesses than Schizophrenia or Depression, and that unless you've endured it and are a survivor it's something that you will never truly be able to understand.
You are awesome for recovering so well, it seems like you've got a good grasp on things now. I don't know a *whole* lot about eating disorders, but my husband is in grad school for mental health counseling, and he talks to me about what he's learning, so I know that it is in fact a mental illness. It's not just someone who doesn't like the way they look. There has got to be a psychologist or counselor in the forums somewhere who can explain it, I'm surprised no one has popped up. But it really annoys me when people think an ED is something you can just get over, like it's a choice you make. Same goes with depression or any other mental illness. It's not a choice, it's a disorder, and most people can't just choose to not be that way. It takes years of therapy and treatment sometimes. I hate how our society has such impatience and ignorance about mental illness. But anyway, good on you for recovering so well and making healthy changes! You are inspirational!0 -
A lot of people with AN know they are too thin. It is a fallacy that body dysmorphia goes hand-in-hand with AN. They are two different mental disorders.
There are hundreds of different reasons why a person with AN restricts their calorie intake and only a handful of those reasons relate to weight or body image.
Some people with AN are motivated by a need to control something when other elements of their life feel out of control, for example. Other people with AN are self-punishing (a type of self harm) because they do not feel worthy of reward. Food might represent 'mother' to some people and rejecting food is a way to reject 'mother'. I could give 100s of other reasons.
It is really simplistic to generalise and assume that EDs are related to a desire to be thin. They are a mental illness and not a diet plan or a lifestyle.
PS: True sufferers of AN do not need 'tips' and do not recite pro-ana babble quotes and do not have pictures of superskinny celebs as their thinspiration. Those people are the 'wannabes' and the 'wannabes' generally have absolutely no idea what it is like to genuinely suffer from an ED. I still find it incredible that people would ever aspire to develop a mental illness - it is like aspiring to be schizophrenic or hoping to become bi-polar.
I was going to break out the intellect and actually post a real response here, but you beat me too it. Nice post.0 -
umm... it's not *just* AN or ED issue... that's a type of thinking that you can find with a lot of mental disorders.
when i was depressed, i was so locked into my repetitive, obsessive thinking that i was completely incapable of seeing/recognizing/understanding the things about myself that other people could. (e.g. i have value as person) it may seem strange in the case of AN/ED that there can be such a disconnect between what is apparent to the eyes and what is going on in the mind because AN/ED manifests physically. it's a little less obvious when the focus is on non-physical things. but it's the same dysfunction: the mind is locked into a repetitive (and often downward spiraling) loop of irrational thinking from which it is extremely difficult to break free.
everything starts in mind. everything exists in mind.0 -
I understand that - but if they were to be "inspired" to become thin (even though they already are) would they not be more likely to over-train/eat really clean(obsessively) to get a more tone look rather than the...current popular look of anorexics...which I can only describe as dilapidated
Alot of people with eating disorders do over exercise. It's a very common symptom.
I think you are getting annorexia nervosa confused with the whole "pro-ana" thing. Mostly it isn't about "achieving a look" its a mental illness.0 -
It's not really about being thin. It's often about control or other mental health issues. I was never *that* thin but to myself, I looked exactly the same as I did when I was 40lbs heavier. I honestly couldn't see why everyone was telling me I didn't look healthy. It wasn't about how I looked though. I couldn't eat. My ED brain wouldn't allow me to so every bite was torture. I never wanted to be 50lbs and all skin and bones. I wanted to be fit and toned but as I got sicker and sicker I wanted to be thinner and thinner until I wasted away. By that point those really thin people started to look more normal to me and they weren't as thin as I first thought they were. It's a terrible disease and even though I exercised and what I did end up eating was clean and healthy it doesn't help. I lost a lot of muscle so I couldn't be fit and strong. It's very hard to explain if you've never been in that situation. Just like I can't imagine what it would be like to be a drug addict or bipolar. Because I'm neither of those. I also can't understand how it's so easy for people to enjoy food even though I was like that at one point.
ETA: there comes a point where you are too weak to do much if anything so exercising and toning is out of the question but you still feel that need for control. The need to be thinner. It's not as simple as just deciding to be healthy. Like one person said, it's like telling a depressed person to cheer up. And, from my experience at least, people with EDs often suffer from depression among other things.
Thank you so much for your reply - it really put perspective into what my question was about.0 -
It is a mental thing, one will look in a mirror and see a fat person staring back ; they do not think they are "skinny" as you put it.
This.0 -
I am recovered from Anorexia, you can read these two posts on why it was such a huge part of my life (you don't have to be a friend to view my blog) I go into detail as to how I got there, and WHY I stayed there. My story is a lot like other women/men that experience it, it's a mental thing.So I in no way am judging anorexics, but I am simply asking this as I am trying to find more information/maybe some personal experiences who could explain this to me.
Why is it that anorexic males/females can not see the difference between a healthy body weight (whether is be strong, ripped, toned - whatever) and the unhealthy body weight (bones, rib cage, lack of muscle). Like...I guess do anorexics find the unhealthy look "sexy" or "in" or "desirable"?
I don't know, I just think that if a picture of a body that is toned/muscular/thin were shown (Lets just use jillian Michaels, because i love her) VS. a body image of lets say an anorexic body...would an anorexic prefer to look like the healthy-thin person or the unhealthy-thin person...any thoughts?
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/SerenaFisher/view/past-struggles-at-war-with-the-mirror-533814
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/SerenaFisher/view/past-struggle-eating-disorder-5338130
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