Whole Body workout vs Separate days?

Hexahedra · May 2013

I'm relatively new, but I prefer body part split because I often push myself hard enough (by increasing the weight) to feel a little sore for a couple of days. If I do full body I would need those couple of days to rest, not to mention being totally wiped out the day after the workout. I'm also training for 5K three days a week, so I avoid leg workouts for the time. I did try putting some leg exercise in, but I stopped it because It interferes with my run.

being sore doesn't mean you had a great workout, or you didn't. it means your muscles weren't used to doing that exercise, or it was a lot of volume. often heavy lifting routines don't even result in DOMS,but if you are doing a progressive program as described above, then there will be progress.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/bodypart-frequency-and-soreness-qa.html

I move a notch (5-10 lbs) up every week or two depending on the machine.

Ejwelton · May 2013

I think I might do this full body one

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/dumbbell-only-home-or-gym-fullbody-workout.html

I like the sound of this one

cad39too · May 2013

If you're new to lifting full body is the way to start out.

katy_trail · May 2013

I'm relatively new, but I prefer body part split because I often push myself hard enough (by increasing the weight) to feel a little sore for a couple of days. If I do full body I would need those couple of days to rest, not to mention being totally wiped out the day after the workout. I'm also training for 5K three days a week, so I avoid leg workouts for the time. I did try putting some leg exercise in, but I stopped it because It interferes with my run.

being sore doesn't mean you had a great workout, or you didn't. it means your muscles weren't used to doing that exercise, or it was a lot of volume. often heavy lifting routines don't even result in DOMS,but if you are doing a progressive program as described above, then there will be progress.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/bodypart-frequency-and-soreness-qa.html

I move a notch (5-10 lbs) up every week or two depending on the machine.

I'm having trouble visualizing how you're doing compound exercises which require free weights on a machine.

haroon_awan · May 2013

By fairly new I mean...I've done body pump (yesyes I know, not "lifting" as such but it's some of the right movements and all that) for about a year and a half, and been doing straightforward free weight work for about 6-8 months. Would that put me at close to intermediate? As in, I could start splitting? Or just stick with separate?

Novice, intermediate, advanced are based on strength standards, experience. I know it's very difficult to take advice from a stranger about what you should be doing, but very truthfully I will say that you will gain great results on a 3 day full body routine such as SL 5x5, the program I linked in the description, NROLFW or if you wish to do a 4 day split then you can.

This video may provide more clarity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK8O0krh-Kw (the standards are for men, not women. For woman he has said 115ish bench, 185 squat and maybe 275 deadlift (all lbs) is considered intermediate, but I'm not 100% sure if these would be considered accurate. Bear in mind he has university level education in nutrition and exercise and knows a hell of a lot more than 99% of trainers.

I only lift 3 times a week, but I do sprint and jump training for track and field on the other 4 days a week. My lifting last 1.5 hours total (including warm up and cool down) so 1.5 hours, 3 times a week = 4.5 hours total workout; this is MORE VOLUME than a 1 hour, 4 times a week program (4 hours). Think about overall volume in this way and it will explain why 3x full body workouts are more optimal, as well as the fact that muscle protein synthesis is elevated for up 48 hours (so training a body part 2-3 times a week is ideal) and large compound movements are better than isolation movements for overall strength and hypertrophy. That said, yes you can start doing the typical guy 5 day a week split, and sure you’ll get good results if your nutrition is on point, but again, you will get even better results with 3x full body.

haroon_awan · May 2013

The above isn't *exactly* what I do every time I go to the gym, I basically just try to cover all of that, but the order changes every time based on which machines/weights are free when (it gets pretty busy in there and I don't always have time to wait for what I need in a specific order). Should I switch it up to do squats first though? The reason why I generally wait until a little later for them is that during my warmup, the resistance on the elliptical is fairly high, so I like to rest my legs for a good 10+ mins before squats, as I can generally lift more if I wait a while...is this a bad idea though? The "program" isn't exactly something that was written for me by anyone -
I am the type of person who, when told to do something EXACT, I just get bored and won't do it. I know that consistency would be better, but I also know I just wouldn't do it.
I work better when given a set of exercises that will make me stronger,
and then I can mix it up and do slightly different things each time, so I don't feel like I'm being given orders that MUST be followed (I explained this to a trainer and he showed me proper form for all of those lifts and pretty much just told me as long as I was doing them and having adequate rest, I would see results). It's a psychological thing for me. Am I hindering my progress a lot by doing it this way? I understand that results might be a little better if I follow an exact program, but for me the problem would be actually following it (I wouldn't).

This is a difficult situation and my best advice would be to work with an experienced trainer who understands your needs and desires. But I will add a few things:
1) Drop the high sweating elliptical warm up. When doing a weight training session, your work in the weight should take precedence over all other forms of exercise, including traditional cardio. You said the resistance on the machine is high, is there a reason you are working quite intensely on your warm up? If you are then this is unnecessary. Yes, warm up, but you can warm up with a couple minutes on the elliptical or you can just do some bodyweight squats (e.g. 3 sets of 10 reps) as your warm up. This will preserve your energy so you can squat first. The reason squats/deadlifts etc are first is because they use several different muscles at once and are more taxing on your central nervous system, and therefore require more energy than, say, doing bicep curls.
2) A 5x5 routine alternatives between workout A and workout B so this may prevent the boredom you experience. But truth be told, you should try and stay motivated to stick to the program that’s written (of course, switch up a few things if you have to depending on how busy the gym is).
3) The two points in bold are quite contradictory. You get bored following a program, but you work best when given a set of exercises that will make you stronger? SL5x5, NROLFW, Starting Strength etc will make you stronger. Period.
4) The trainer was right in telling you that going to the gym will get you results, but personally he was wrong for not sitting down with you are explaining to you the benefits of following a structured program with a good nutrition plan. You will not get stronger in your squat if you are doing the same weight for a month, progressive overload (increasing the weight, or shortening the rest, more reps, more volume, intensity etc) is one of the most important factors in this. Although in his defence I expect he would charge for such services.

I hope this helps and I also hope that I haven’t confused you. It’s just that there have been several occasions recently where people I know have been given advice and when they following it for a while they are baffled by why they aren’t seeing results, or trainers just ignore a trainee not working at his or her best.

Hexahedra · May 2013

I'm relatively new, but I prefer body part split because I often push myself hard enough (by increasing the weight) to feel a little sore for a couple of days. If I do full body I would need those couple of days to rest, not to mention being totally wiped out the day after the workout. I'm also training for 5K three days a week, so I avoid leg workouts for the time. I did try putting some leg exercise in, but I stopped it because It interferes with my run.

being sore doesn't mean you had a great workout, or you didn't. it means your muscles weren't used to doing that exercise, or it was a lot of volume. often heavy lifting routines don't even result in DOMS,but if you are doing a progressive program as described above, then there will be progress.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/bodypart-frequency-and-soreness-qa.html

I move a notch (5-10 lbs) up every week or two depending on the machine.

I'm having trouble visualizing how you're doing compound exercises which require free weights on a machine.

Uh, I did mention that I do splits instead of compound, and explained the reason...

4d9r · May 2013

bump to read later.

BonaFideUK · May 2013

If you're new to lifting then its a good idea to do full body days for 2 or 3 months before thinking about doing splits.

I disagree. When you're doing an established program, you should stick with that program until your progress has stalled.
This is at least a 6 month long process Doing the routine needs to be a long term decision. Do your research before starting the routine. Make sure you have all the equipment, weights, know what the schedule will be months in advance and plan for it. When you're doing a heavy lifting program you can't just skip a workout, or move the days around, without messing up your recovery.

You can disagree but its proven that doing full days on an ABA BAB weekly program is far more optimal for novices than splits. Note the word optimal. Splits will work for novices but gains are faster on full body days.

goodtimezzzz · May 2013

bicep curls are a whole body workout! There is NO isolation when using alot of weight and doing great form..every workout is always a full body! choose wisely!

katy_trail · May 2013

If you're new to lifting then its a good idea to do full body days for 2 or 3 months before thinking about doing splits.

I disagree. When you're doing an established program, you should stick with that program until your progress has stalled.
This is at least a 6 month long process Doing the routine needs to be a long term decision. Do your research before starting the routine. Make sure you have all the equipment, weights, know what the schedule will be months in advance and plan for it. When you're doing a heavy lifting program you can't just skip a workout, or move the days around, without messing up your recovery.

You can disagree but its proven that doing full days on an ABA BAB weekly program is far more optimal for novices than splits. Note the word optimal. Splits will work for novices but gains are faster on full body days.

I wasn't disagreeing with the full body program, as I said, in my comments that is better in this case.
I disagree that it is such a short process. In lifting progress 2-3 months is nothing.
I'm doing 5 week cycles, that's only 2 maybe part of the third cycle.
Lifting is a long term process. It's not a race. We all get there in our own time.

goodtimezzzz · May 2013

Steve Reeves had probably the greatest physique in History always did whole body workouts:)

katy_trail · May 2013

bicep curls are a whole body workout! There is NO isolation when using alot of weight and doing great form..every workout is always a full body! choose wisely!

what are you talking about?

RhineDHP · February 2014

Reviving this dead thread. You know, I was curious about this. For the past month I've been doing a split workout, but lately even when I lift to failure on an arm day or a leg day, it doesn't feel like I'm getting an efficient workout.

I decided to do a relatively full body workout today, and I felt like I used my time better. I dunno, after a month maybe it's time to mix things up.

pavrg · February 2014

Hey so I'm fairly new to lifting, and am currently trying to figure out what would be the best approach.
At the moment, I'm going every second day (so alternating between 3 and 4 days a week) and doing a full body workout with

15 min cardio warmup (elliptical)
benchpress
lat pulldowns
bicep curls and tricep dips
squats
hip abductor and adductor
ab work
sometimes more cardio (basically just if i want a bigger burn - party or going out for dinner)
stretching

this only happens every second day, but takes about an hour and a half each time.

would it be more beneficial to do separate days for different body areas? Like, a leg day, an arms/shoulder day, etc. so that I don't have to have a rest day every second day? or is this method just as effective?

If you recommend splitting it up, what would you suggest as a new weekly workout routine?

Thanks so much!

That's not a very good full body routine. Having said that, if you are only going to go every other day, the most you should split the workout up into is two days. Three and four day splits require you to be in the gym everyday. That is why they exist -- to break workouts into 1 hour-ish chunks that can be done everyday.

Whole Body workout vs Separate days?

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